3D printing

[eda]

Saw a piece on 3D printing on Channel 4 news last week. Could we be on the verge of making our own ABS parts?? :woot::woot:

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/uk/en/ga/WF06b/18972-18972-3328061-4154659-4154659-4154512-4154513.html

[Rebelrc]

Download a wishbone... Cool

[stoff]

I used a 3D Printer in Uni to make a bodyshell mould. Worked really well. There's a fair bit of development to go before we'll see them in our homes. Especially with regards to price!

[Eotz]

I'm using a custom spur gear cover, printed in ABS and works perfect, but I had to pay a nice money.

[JonMack]

Didn't that kid who's made his own car (I Made This forum) have some wishbones 3d printed and they just died straight away?

[Legacy555]

Are we talking about stereolithgraphy here? this rapid prototyping has been in use for at least 10 years. Uses a laser and a liquid polymer to literally "print" 3d shapes.

[Rebelrc]

One day hopefully:thumbsup:

[SlowOne]

Dream on! The material used for stereo lith is nowhere near the strength we need. Most of our plastic parts are re-enforced with fibres. Stereo lith cannot do that.

As it stands, the machines are very expensive, the programming complex and the materials anything up to £20k a tonne! It's fantastic for large companies to make models of things for testing and visualisation purposes as it is way cheaper than making a 'real' one. As a guide, something like a wishbone would cost you about £250 commercially to make from stereo lith. We get upset if it cost over £2.50!!

However, let's remember that 20+ years ago a mobile 'phone cost over £500 and the network didn't extend beyond Carlisle! So never say never...

[terry.sc]

Dream on! The material used for stereo lith is nowhere near the strength we need. Most of our plastic parts are re-enforced with fibres. Stereo lith cannot do that.It's not stereo lithography, it's 3D printing. 3D printing has been around a few years, and the price of 3D printers has come down to under £15,000 (http://www.3dprinting.co.uk/htm/designjet3d.htm) although if you want to make your own for under £1000 have a look at the Reprap. (http://www.reprap.org/wiki/Main_Page)

3D printing works like an inkjet printer but uses plastic, most commonly ABS, instead of ink. You can even use different coloured plastics to self colour the objects and create objects made of several components ready assembled. If you want to see what a 3D printer is capable of, watch the second part of this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggvzcGdZsTc Yes, they did print out a working adjustable spanner in one piece.

There are companies who will take your cad file and print out the model for you, although if you are planning on doing that for rc car parts for one offs it would be better getting them machined in nylon or aluminium through emachineshop.com (http://www.emachineshop.com/)

[sldmodels]

It's something I'm planning on doing soon, to make spares and my own cars. What I'm looking at getting uses ABS plastic, the same kind that the tougher mardave shells are made out of. There is a limit on size currently (on the one I'm getting at least) of something like 11cm by 10cm, so chassis would be out of the question at the mo', but my current only hurdle is the design software, which I'm looking at learning over the next few weeks and months.

[stoff]

That EMachine shop is an awesome concept!

SLD, try contacting the Universities to see if they can help you out. Bolton Uni has a couple of Rapid Prototypers.

[sldmodels]

I might pop down to the uni later this week, but was told they're busy handling applications at the mo', but that sounded a bit like they we're trying to fob me off as they had no idea what I was talking about.

[neiloliver]

I want one!

http://www.thinglab.co.uk/printing_product.php?URL_=product_rapid_zcorp_zpri nter_450&SubCatID_=66

[SlowOne]

It's not stereo lithography, it's 3D printing. 3D printing has been around a few years, and the price of 3D printers has come down to under £15,000 (http://www.3dprinting.co.uk/htm/designjet3d.htm) although if you want to make your own for under £1000 have a look at the Reprap. (http://www.reprap.org/wiki/Main_Page)Stereo lithography is the generic term for creating 3D forms from 2D printing - it's all stereo lith. The original stereo lith used industrial lasers. With the advent of laser printers the technology has been adapted to new grades of plastic. However, the same note above applies - the materials aren't yet suitable for the type of loads we put through our cars. Maybe you could get some body mounts or wing mounts out of it, but not a wishbone.

Hope somone will post some piccies on here of their results.

[terry.sc]

Stereo lithography as a generic term involves anything produced using UV activated resin, activated using a laser, it's not 3D printing. SLA systems have become smaller and cheaper, but they are still pretty expensive compared with 3D printing, and SLS has opened up a whole new world of materials that can be used including nylon and aluminium.

The 3D printing discussed here doesn't use lasers at all, it's just like a very precise hot melt glue gun. It doesn't need special resins and they usually do work with plain old ABS that's heated up until it melts then squirted onto layers just like an inkjet printer, which is why it's considerably cheaper and you can pick up small desktop machines.


I used to make a living years ago cleaning up and finishing SLA resin models, the technology at the time meant they had at least a 0.5mm step, with bigger models having 1mm steps on them. Had a SLA resin lawnmower body to clean up once, took nearly two weeks of sanding and filling to get something good enough to take a mould off and cast in a suitable polyurethane as the resin was too brittle for prototyping. Today they can make it in the right materials to a much finer tolerance to a much cheaper price, which is why I'm fitting kitchens these days.

I'd agree with the ABS materials used in the 3D printers not being suitable for r/c parts, although if you can find someone with a Selective Laser Sintering (SLS) system that has some free time then they are capable of building parts from nylon, aluminium and even glass filled nylon.

[terry.sc]

It's something I'm planning on doing soon, to make spares and my own cars. What I'm looking at getting uses ABS plastic, the same kind that the tougher mardave shells are made out of. There is a limit on size currently (on the one I'm getting at least) of something like 11cm by 10cm, so chassis would be out of the question at the mo', but my current only hurdle is the design software, which I'm looking at learning over the next few weeks and months.
If you are planning on making parts in ABS, buy some ABS sheet first and hand cut your parts out of it to see how soft and flexible they are.

If you are planning on making car parts, unless you are just using the 3D printer for fit and function and someone else would be mass producing them, you would be better off investing your money in a small CNC mill which would let you make parts out of just about any more appropriate material.

[sldmodels]

this is what I'm looking at http://store.makerbot.com/makerbot-thing-o-matic.html

I've seen some videos, and what it can make, and I think it should be able to make the parts strong enough

[northmeade]

Downloadable parts will be availible sooner than you may think:thumbsup:.
sorry if it seems i am promoting a business here but this is bang on topic.
I run a small CNC programmming company called Northmeade CNC www.northmeade.co.uk (http://www.northmeade.co.uk) .
My new venture, however , is a company called Partbake. Partbake does exactly what we are talking about here. It is an online store selling downloadable digital parts and 3d models ready for Rapid Prototyping or CNC machining. It will not just be parts for RC, but all kinds of stuff. Each download will contain, along with documentation, either a DXF file for 2d CNC profiling, an STL and/or a Greyscale for 3d CNC machining, or an STL file for Rapid Prototyping, depending on the specific design.

As it has been previously said the problem with rapid prototyping today is the resolution and the material used. There are 2 main players for affordable desktop Rapid Prototyping machines at the moment. Makerbot and RepRap. I think that it will take a few more years development before the resolution issues and application specific materials problems are overcome, but it is my opinion that this is definately the future of manufacturing.

The other option is CNC milling. It is possible to buy a decent desktop CNC milling machine for under £1000. (Type Sable CNC into ebay). And go to http://www.linuxcnc.org/ for emc2 (machine controller software) it's free & linux based but can be run from a live cd)

This means that it is possible to download and manufacture your own parts :thumbsup:
www.partbake.com (http://www.partbake.com) will be fully up and running by the middle of march 2011. It's just an empty shop at the moment but i will be uploading products over the coming weeks.
These will include: bodyshell forms, tools, shock towers, a slot car track, a vac former, and tons of cool stuff for you to make :)

[blue_pinky]

3D Printers are cool....but I wouldn't get too exited if was you!

SLA, SLS, desktop printers (basically low quality FDM machines) do not make parts strong enough or durable enough for reliable use within RC racing.

Some SLA & SLS materials are pretty good, new ones developed all the time, and as has already been said it's massively expensive. Although FDM uses ABS, it's not even close to being the same end result as a moulding.

FDM (fused deposition modelling) is basically taking an ABS filament, typically on a roll, feeding it through an extruding head on a CNC platform. The result is wall sections made up of thin beads of ABS that overlay each other, fusing together under heat with tiny webs laid down to give the appearance if solid material, when actually it has many tiny gaps in it.

In some cases you can design parts to be made functional by over sizing them, but the strength is very directional...the material is laid down in layers, so it's strength is in one plane only, and it can delaminate under load. Whereas a moulding is obviously stronger in all directions, it flows under much greater heat and pressure so there is no layer structure, far superior!

I guess the clue is in the name...it's prototyping!!!

One day they might get there, but it's along way off, and still only really useful for quick fit and function testing...not something I'd want to use in a competitive environment, not for anything with any load on it anyway.

Still an interesting technology though! :thumbsup:

[university_dave]

3D printing is old hat - ALM (Additive Layer Manufacturing) is the real cutting edge at the moment. Have a look at the story in the link below;

http://www.theengineer.co.uk/in-depth/the-big-story/the-rise-of-additive-manufacturing/1002560.article

There are already ALM parts on the A380 and apparently Force India and McLaren are using ALM components on this year's F1 cars. If they can get the speed of manufacture up to similar levels as CNC machining then this is a huge breakthrough.

[blue_pinky]

:woot: Wow!

Probably a bit expensive for RC cars at the moment...but certainly looks like that day isn't quite as far away as I thought :D Loving the look of that :thumbsup:

[sldmodels]

The one I'm looking at getting does do the parts in layers, but it has a heated base, so keeps the parts at a certain temperature while printing. The parts should be tough enough, as one of the things it does make is bottle openers, which have to be strong enough to actually open bottles.

[Eotz]

The part printed in ABS that I'm using now:

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/7826/spurcover.jpg (http://img254.imageshack.us/i/spurcover.jpg/)


I raced once with them and no problem. My friend raced 2 times with a twin part and perfert performance. The cover is 2mm thick.

:thumbsup:

[stoff]

ALM looks great. Looking forward to seeing that being used more mainstream.

Remember it's not just the cost of the machines. The material used is very expensive.

[sldmodels]

It's definitely the future. Most manufacturers have to have moulds made for each part, then have to make the part, then have it sat in storage taking up space for whoever knows how long. With this, even old cars can have new cars made up, and you can design your own parts for your car, and the cost is generally based on weight of the materials used.