TRF502X, things to improve

[Chris]

Dear all,

When building the TRF 502X I have found some things that Tamiya or an aftermarket company could improve:

- the shock tower attachment on the front upper gearbox cover does have a wrong angle. This should be the same angle as the front kick-up. The result is binding of the front shocks when mounted according the manual. It can be solved by use of a double shock tower, but the shocks won't be square with the lower arms. The TRF 511 doesn't have this problem.

-The slots in the diff joints are too large, in this way dust can easily enter the "sealed" gearbox. To prevent this i used a piece of heat shrink to cover the slots. (only covering the slot that's inside the gearbox)

Some minor things:

-Where is the angled steering system from the TRF 511? I for the best steering characteristics the steering system should be parallel to the steering uprights, like was done on the TRF 511 and 501X.

-The rear shocks are not reversible like on the TRF 511. Shocks can only mounted on the front side of the suspension arms. BTW: I didn't like driving the rear mounted option on the TRF 511.

-The gear box housings are not fully sealed like on the TRF 201. A sealing edge is missing. The gearboxes are very stiff and secured with 6 screws, so hopefully there is no need for sealing edges.

-accessing the motor screws is not easy, an improved motor mount like on the B44.1 should be nice.

- a double slipper clutch, I like this option very much on the TRF 511

So hopefully tamiya releases soon an updated front gear box cover and improved diff joints.

[AndrewCaunt]

The front steering has to be turned round 180 degrees so that the car steers better you have to dremel gear box housing.It makes akaman same as 511.

[Chris]

The front steering has to be turned round 180 degrees so that the car steers better you have to dremel gear box housing.It makes akaman same as 511.

True, but you can also use 6 mm spacers to achive the same geometry

[Bomberpilot]

Hi to all,

...and its got some bumb steer ( neagtive ) in the last few bits of inboard travel on the front, which " opens " the outside steering angle. Still have no idea to shim that, because of not enough place...

After driving 501 ( orig and AC GTO ) and 511, i am a bit dissapointed:
- the front whishbones start to wobble after 6 Packs inddor
- still no parts availible here


Greetings from Switzerland
Maurice

[fastinfastout]

seems like 502x was released too early

[Bomberpilot]

it seems like Tamiya has lowerd the quality to Schuey, durango and co, if the official price of the 502 would be the same as the others, i would say okay, but for more money i want more quality...like Fiat vs. Porsche...

We will see...

[Jamie.T]

Ive run my 502 now at 6 meetings and love it. Its kit standard and ive had no issues. Its certainly not a "bad" car, although you need to make a few tweaks, which you would do with any car you buy.

[Bomberpilot]

i am not saying the 502 is a bad car:
As you said, you have to do with a few minor tweaks.
The 502 is faster than the 511, at my opinion...which is not representiv, exept fo me
i owned the
- Durango
- every Lazer exept FS
- Cat SX, the older ones too
- xxx4
- B4
on these cars you need the dremel, on 501/511 not, which was outstanding, unique selling proposition, what ever ou wanna call that...

I just hope tamiya will come back to the " old " quality, as for me the problem is time, not money. ( sorry to say that in that way, i know no other words ), i would by an upgrade at an instant...

[Jamie.T]

You dont need to dremel the 502 either? At least ive never felt the need to anyways.lol

[Bomberpilot]

if you do change the steering to get enough lock on the outside, you have to.
Otherwise it bends, or you have to drive around like an old Lazer...steeringwise

[Chris]

seems like 502x was released too early

I disagree, it's a great car. But there is room for improvement!

[floudas103]

I would like to hear from someone that had both cars which is faster or better and in what areas...as I am not convinced the 502 is faster than 511...but I have not driven or even seen both cars on track!
...anyone???:confused:

[Bomberpilot]

indoors both cars are fast, 511 seems calmer, the 502 better if you have to change direction fast, for me 502 is faster, because its more direct in the drivtrain. ( Indoors on carpet )
I think you should try, then yo will know wats faster for you...

[floudas103]

The problem is that on carpet you have so much traction that some problems are "hidden". When you have a slippery surface like dirt or clay, then the problems are magnified.
An advantage on carpet can be a disadvantage on dirt....
That is why I try to understand the 502's "character".

[chris68nufc]

My 502 was really nice yesterday at Worksop. Very easy to drive, it was my first time out so I'm sure it will get better aswell With a bit of help.
Went from Durango to the 502! Love it!

[floudas103]

what differences did you notice compared to the DEX?
is the steering as good as the DEX?

[Bomberpilot]

The DEX feels like a truck, the 502 is more agile,more sensitive for me

[chris68nufc]

The DEX is great indoors when you dont have loads of grip however go outdoors in the dry and the car is a nightmare to stop grip rolling. I had mine for a while and tried loads of things to settle it but just couldnt manage, maybe im not good enough??

The 502X was instantly smoother and calmer than the DEX and that means that i can push if i need to without getting bit!

I loved the Durango branding and the team are a very helpfull bunch however the 502X does seem to me to be the better car for a medium ability driver.

I made the Lee Martin steering mod, which only took 20 mins and the car had no probs with a lack of steering.

Hope that helps!

[tit91]

I do not understnd the discussions about the quality of the 502. I owned the 501 first and didn't recogize any decrease of the quality. The only thing I really don't like are the screws which are still far too soft.
The issue with the front damper stay, btw, were solved with some spcers, as discribed at trfracing.co.uk.
Some noticed that the steering is not angeled any more, so there is a bit bump steer. I don't think that this is bad as it reduces the slip angel on the front wheels when the car understeers. So that may be useful to improve the handling.
I think the 502 is really awsome and I'm looking foward to drive it outdoors.

[floudas103]

The DEX is great indoors when you dont have loads of grip however go outdoors in the dry and the car is a nightmare to stop grip rolling. I had mine for a while and tried loads of things to settle it but just couldnt manage, maybe im not good enough??

The 502X was instantly smoother and calmer than the DEX and that means that i can push if i need to without getting bit!

I loved the Durango branding and the team are a very helpfull bunch however the 502X does seem to me to be the better car for a medium ability driver.

I made the Lee Martin steering mod, which only took 20 mins and the car had no probs with a lack of steering.

Hope that helps!

Yes, it is nice to hear this! I can understand the comparison and was very helpfull!
Thanks!:thumbsup:

[Bomberpilot]

maybe one should write, the car is not finished, compared to 501 and 511?
We are complaining on an very high level, if you compare the 502 to other brands?
The bumb steer thing is exremly driving style related some like it, some don't.
As i am having a lot of experience with real cars ( fwd), slip angle is varied with steering, so i don't like bumb steer, "classic" rc drive style seems to be the same? Most common setups wont work for me.

To come to an end, i will stick with the 502, and redesign the steeringrack a bit.

[floudas103]

I do not understnd the discussions about the quality of the 502. I owned the 501 first and didn't recogize any decrease of the quality. The only thing I really don't like are the screws which are still far too soft.
The issue with the front damper stay, btw, were solved with some spcers, as discribed at trfracing.co.uk.
Some noticed that the steering is not angeled any more, so there is a bit bump steer. I don't think that this is bad as it reduces the slip angel on the front wheels when the car understeers. So that may be useful to improve the handling.
I think the 502 is really awsome and I'm looking foward to drive it outdoors.

The word "quality" has many meanings so I do not know how each person translates it...

The quality of the materials and parts is there for sure... what I do not understand is why some small flaws (damperstay angle, soft screws, steering bellcrank) were not corrected from the factory.... and the owner/racer must modify to make it work at it's best!? if it is easy for me and you to see these flaws, then I am sure it was easier for Tamiya!

Also when you have such a good base (TRF511) people expect the new car to be a big improvement from the box.... is it????:confused:

[Bomberpilot]

@floudas103: yep.

[floudas103]

maybe one should write, the car is not finished, compared to 501 and 511?
We are complaining on an very high level, if you compare the 502 to other brands?
The bumb steer thing is exremly driving style related some like it, some don't.
As i am having a lot of experience with real cars ( fwd), slip angle is varied with throttle, so i don't like bumb steer, "classic" rc drive style seems to be the same? Most common setups wont work for me.

To come to an end, i will stick with the 502, and redesign the steeringrack a bit.


You could not have said it better! That is how I feel exactly... I think a 512 is on it's way!;)

I am an owner of a 501 and thinking of what to buy: 511 or 502 I just can't convince myself to buy the 502! The biggest plus is the support it will get (from Lee and other sponsored) in setups and the 511 (which I think is the safest bet) is already not supported as much...

[Jan Larsen]

The TRF range of offroad cars are not for everyone. If you're on a budget, stay away (you'd be better of with a B44 then), but if you're serious about your racing and expect results, this is the car for you. The easiest solution to overcome the spares issues are buying two kits, but its obviously also the most expensive.

Once the steering mod is done, the car should feel like the 511 since the suspension is the same.

[DaveG28]

Couple of points:

1. The spacers on the front shock tower do not fix the angle issue, they stop the shock binding but do it by making the shock a different angle to the front kick up, which is not ideal, you still don't get linear movement. I believe the 511 had an angled front shock tower?

2. The steering mod does not turn it into a 511. The weight distribution, steering (again due to the kick up etc, and the massive flex built into the steering mechanism), and flex all remain different on the new car. I also don't think it's possible to match camber link angles between the 2, though may be wrong.

3. Therefore the "shaft drive version of the 511" blurb is misleading really, it's more different than that!

Personally, I find the 502 a better jumper, and smoother, but with less grip than the 511. Also not convinced yet that the steering mod is an improvement speed wise...

It also feels to me like a car designed and sold, with the key testing bit missin from the middle. As someone else said feels like obvious bits are missed on it!

Shame, as I am a total Tamiya fan boy, and I will be sticking with the 502, but to be honest, I'd recommend the 511 instead!!

[David Church]

Couple of points:

1. The spacers on the front shock tower do not fix the angle issue, they stop the shock binding but do it by making the shock a different angle to the front kick up, which is not ideal, you still don't get linear movement. I believe the 511 had an angled front shock tower?

2. The steering mod does not turn it into a 511. The weight distribution, steering (again due to the kick up etc, and the massive flex built into the steering mechanism), and flex all remain different on the new car. I also don't think it's possible to match camber link angles between the 2, though may be wrong.

3. Therefore the "shaft drive version of the 511" blurb is misleading really, it's more different than that!

Personally, I find the 502 a better jumper, and smoother, but with less grip than the 511. Also not convinced yet that the steering mod is an improvement speed wise...

It also feels to me like a car designed and sold, with the key testing bit missin from the middle. As someone else said feels like obvious bits are missed on it!

Shame, as I am a total Tamiya fan boy, and I will be sticking with the 502, but to be honest, I'd recommend the 511 instead!!

I know where a good 511 that has you name is Amish!!! I have a present for you this weekend:)

[GRIFF55]

me too!! he has one beauty!

[fastinfastout]

seems like 502x was released too early

I disagree, it's a great car. But there is room for improvement!
are you serious?

tamiya release a car that is not geometrically correct from an engineering standpoint and you still disagree with the car being released too early.

I hope tamiya release their mistake with this problem. I personally would be very wary of future releases. I mean I love their cars, but the newer ones, including the 201 has had a few teething issues.

[fastinfastout]

funny how most of the pros are going backwards since running this car

[floudas103]

funny how most of the pros are going backwards since running this car

agree;)

[tit91]

The word "quality" has many meanings so I do not know how each person translates it...

The quality of the materials and parts is there for sure... what I do not understand is why some small flaws (damperstay angle, soft screws, steering bellcrank) were not corrected from the factory.... and the owner/racer must modify to make it work at it's best!? if it is easy for me and you to see these flaws, then I am sure it was easier for Tamiya!

Also when you have such a good base (TRF511) people expect the new car to be a big improvement from the box.... is it????:confused:

Well, I do agree in most points. Above all, the screws are a big issue in my eyes as this problem is known for a long time.
I can't say anything about the steering problem by now as we only have an outdoor track here which is still being renewed and, most of all, the wether is, lets say, quite bad :-)

[Lee Martin]

funny how most of the pros are going backwards since running this car

Really...

Please name one........

[mattybucks]

Really...

Please name one........


I think with any car it takes a bit of time to get the set up right. Tweaking a few bits etc. I got a 511 late on, by that time I had a list of things I needed to get, hubs, steerting brace, weight kit, springs....

The 502 is still a new car, most drivers have had very little time to run the car properly on all surfaces, I would say it's too early to say if the top boys will be going back to the 511.

[marco NL]

I'm waiting for the TRF512:D:D:D

[MADMAX79]

Sounds a little like the classic bullshit on that always go with a new car.
The car is just a few months old and it has not even had a chance at the track yet. Give this car a bit more time to prove its worth before you talk shit about it. Then I have difficulty understanding me in some who are discussing how bad the car is when it in fact they not even have the car.
I just bought a 502 and do not hesitate one second on it. The only negative is the spare parts availability. Have just changed from Durango to this car.

[chris68nufc]

A bit gutted to read this, im not the best with car setups etc and sometimes all of this shizzle really confuses me!!

On the other hand, if the car is crap and not designed right im sure Lee Martin/Tamyia will fix it, let us all know what to do with it then it will be even quicker cos mine was awesome last weekend!


Actually, im over the moon its got problems as i will be quicker again when its sorted!!:thumbsup:

[floudas103]

Nobody said the 502 is crap or shit...:o
we just discuss if it is better than the 511! a step forward!
and as mentioned we all agree that both cars are at the top of our list for 4wd buggy.
we just don't understand why some small flaws were not corrected so it can be "perfect"!

We are all in this thread because we have chosen Tamiya and most definite will buy again Tamiya!:thumbsup:

[DaveG28]

Yeah agree with the last post, I don't see a problem with discussing it's flaws, I can't stand threads where everyone has to either claim perfection, or it's rubbish, and nothing in-between! I haven't said it's slower than a 511 either, not convinced either way yet!

For myself, a wishlist of hopups/changes would be:

1. Someone to design a wedge system for the front tower to angle it with the kickup (probably need a new tower too for that!)?

2. Aluminium steering, the 511 Ali steering arm had a better bearing fit which meant slop could be reduced. The 502 steering slop is horrific! If possible angle it too!

3. Carbon thinner camber link mounts to enable lower inner positions!

4. Diff height option (not sure it's doable)

5. Gear diffs!

6. Bigbores for bling!!

[GRIFF55]

i think Viktor, Marc and lee's results on the FIRST outing with the car at the petit speak for themselves! 3 in the top ten of a very competitive meeting.
My only issue with the car is parts availability (some bits) at the moment. this is being sorted by a few people.
i think lee winning a few rounds at the reedy race against the best in the world shows the cars pace:thumbsup:

Amish, the alloy steering linkage has been done and angled forward;) speak nicely to who i pm you and i'm sure he might help you out:thumbsup:

[chris68nufc]

I was using sarcasm with my last post lads, i said 'if' the car is supposed to be crap according to some peoples comments made on here, however i am more than happy with my new car, i never thought for a million years i would run a Tamiya, dont know why but im glad ive got one, its the bomb!

Any changes for the better will make me like it more!

[floudas103]

Amish, the alloy steering linkage has been done and angled forward;) speak nicely to who i pm you and i'm sure he might help you out:thumbsup:[/QUOTE]

any photos for us...:drool:

[cmgreen]

I was using sarcasm with my last post lads, i said 'if' the car is supposed to be crap according to some peoples comments made on here, however i am more than happy with my new car, i never thought for a million years i would run a Tamiya, dont know why but im glad ive got one, its the bomb!

Any changes for the better will make me like it more!

Just ordered 1!

[Jamie.T]

any photos for us...:drool:

Tomorrow when my cameras charged ;)

[marco NL]

ALL STAR EP OFF-ROAD　４ＷＤ winning TRF502X

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmAhkmVItcY&feature=player_embedded

[Nige]

ALL STAR EP OFF-ROAD　４ＷＤ winning TRF502X

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmAhkmVItcY&feature=player_embedded


Pink wheels :thumbsup::lol:

[fastinfastout]

ALL STAR EP OFF-ROAD　４ＷＤ winning TRF502X

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmAhkmVItcY&feature=player_embedded
car certainly doesn't look like it lacks any steering.

tamiya have made pink wheels for the 201x, not sure if they make the 4wd fronts however, maybe he personally dyed them himself.

[GRIFF55]

Another 502x winning, watch at about 5min 15secs on the left to see how well these babies jump!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8-8TNM3Fsk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8-8TNM3Fsk)

[floudas103]

In the All Star EP did you notice how the second guy (502???) takes the jump at the straight: triple-single???? awesome!!!:thumbsup:

[peetbee]

Another 502x winning, watch at about 5min 15secs on the left to see how well these babies jump!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8-8TNM3Fsk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8-8TNM3Fsk)

That 502 almost makes the driver look good, any idea who it is Andy?:D

[floudas103]

Another 502x winning, watch at about 5min 15secs on the left to see how well these babies jump!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8-8TNM3Fsk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8-8TNM3Fsk)


PERFECT!!!!:thumbsup:

[MattADH]

tamiya have made pink wheels for the 201x, not sure if they make the 4wd fronts however, maybe he personally dyed them himself.


Yes the pink wheels are available for the front of the 4WD.

[fastinfastout]

would you happen to know the part number for the pink 4wd front rims?

[Jamie.T]

would you happen to know the part number for the pink 4wd front rims?

#54282 - Front pink rims
#54280 - Rear pink rims

[fastinfastout]

#54282 - Front pink rims
#54280 - Rear pink rims
excellent thanks!:thumbsup:

I wonder if these rims have fitment issues like the black and yellow tamiya rims, apparently tamiya rims are too tight of a fit on their own cars:o

[DaveG28]

Tamiya rims fit fine, all you do first time you use the fronts is line the hex up and then tighten the nut to push the hex in the wheel over the hex on the axle!

You know if you have it right, because if so it is only tight for about half a turn of the nut then it loosens again once the hex pops over the fitment!

[Carno]

Exactly what Dave said. Found this strange at first but it's just the way to mount them first time.
Tamiya supply a pamflet in the box with the instructions for this.

It's the same for all wheel colors btw.

[fastinfastout]

Was I just reading into too much what was just said and confused myself even more.

first time.......just line up wheel on hex and simply tighten up, like any other wheel?

cos I didnt understand dave's post

[Nige]

Was I just reading into too much what was just said and confused myself even more.

first time.......just line up wheel on hex and simply tighten up, like any other wheel?

cos I didnt understand dave's post

It made sense to me...:eh?:

[hashiriya]

In the All Star EP did you notice how the second guy (502???) takes the jump at the straight: triple-single???? awesome!!!:thumbsup:

According to the description of the video it was a race shortly after the 502 was released and all eyes where on a Tamiya vs Kyosho battle.

Maezumi leads with the 502 with Adachi chasing in the Kyosho.

So i guess the car you are refering to is a Kyosho

[Carno]

Was I just reading into too much what was just said and confused myself even more.

first time.......just line up wheel on hex and simply tighten up, like any other wheel?

cos I didnt understand dave's post

First time wheel mounting the wheel doesn't fall right over the hex. You tighten the nut so that you push the wheel over the hex.
If the wheel and hex aren't aligned right you will not feel a decrease in force when tightening the nut.

Usually you can push the wheel over the hex and then just screw on the nut to keep the wheel in place instead of using the nut to push the wheel in place.

[floudas103]

According to the description of the video it was a race shortly after the 502 was released and all eyes where on a Tamiya vs Kyosho battle.

Maezumi leads with the 502 with Adachi chasing in the Kyosho.

So i guess the car you are refering to is a Kyosho


Nice to know!
what ever the car was the the jump was GREAT!!! he gained a couple of meters each time they passed the straight...:thumbsup:
Thanks

[fastinfastout]

First time wheel mounting the wheel doesn't fall right over the hex. You tighten the nut so that you push the wheel over the hex.
If the wheel and hex aren't aligned right you will not feel a decrease in force when tightening the nut.

Usually you can push the wheel over the hex and then just screw on the nut to keep the wheel in place instead of using the nut to push the wheel in place.
got ya thanks

[Chris]

After a day of racing my diffs always feel gritty. It seems that after 2 batteries the diff plates are worn. I never had this problem with the 511.

Now i have found the cause: Before i go racing I adjust the diffs and slipper in a way that the diff are smooth and not slipping. The diffs are prevented for slipping by a correctly adjusted slipper. So far so good.....

But when racing the motor will get warm/hot. The heat is contucted through the motormount to the slipper. And the slipper gets tighter and tighter, resulting lack of slip. In that way the diffs starting to slip due to the forces on the transission. After 5 minutes of racing the diff plates are worn out.

Associated and other brands uses plastic bearing holders to prevent the heat condution from the motor mount to the slipper clutch.

Anybody found a solution for this heat problem?

[PaulUpton]

After a day of racing my diffs always feel gritty. It seems that after 2 batteries the diff plates are worn. I never had this problem with the 511.

Now i have found the cause: Before i go racing I adjust the diffs and slipper in a way that the diff are smooth and not slipping. The diffs are prevented for slipping by a correctly adjusted slipper. So far so good.....

But when racing the motor will get warm/hot. The heat is contucted through the motormount to the slipper. And the slipper gets tighter and tighter, resulting lack of slip. In that way the diffs starting to slip due to the forces on the transission. After 5 minutes of racing the diff plates are worn out.

Associated and other brands uses plastic bearing holders to prevent the heat condution from the motor mount to the slipper clutch.

Anybody found a solution for this heat problem?

the diffs on my 502 haven't been touched in ages and i get the motor quite hot when i run, can't say ive had a problem with this.

Paul

[discostu]

yeah im the same never had a problem diffs are silky smooth clutch is consistant it seems to me you just dont like this car as you first post basicly said it was crap and compleatly wrong you should have stuck to the 511

sorry if this is a little harsh its just how i read it.

stu

[mattybucks]

Have you tried changing the slipper pads?

[Chris]

Have you tried changing the slipper pads?

Yes, new pads.

Maybe it's the motor (LRP X12).

[Chris]

yeah im the same never had a problem diffs are silky smooth clutch is consistant it seems to me you just dont like this car as you first post basicly said it was crap and compleatly wrong you should have stuck to the 511

sorry if this is a little harsh its just how i read it.

stu

The TRF502X crap? Learn to read!

[Chris]

the diffs on my 502 haven't been touched in ages and i get the motor quite hot when i run, can't say ive had a problem with this.

Paul

The slipper gets 90 degrees C. I think the motor X12 is then the problem.

[discostu]

Dear all,

When building the TRF 502X I have found some design mistakes:

- the shock tower attachment on the front upper gearbox cover does have a wrong angle. This should be the same angle as the front kick-up. The result is binding of the front shocks when mounted according the manual. It can be solved by use of a double shock tower, but the shocks won't be square with the lower arms. The TRF 511 doesn't have this problem.

-The slots in the diff joints are too large, in this way dust can easily enter the "sealed" gearbox. To prevent this i used a piece of heat shrink to cover the slots. (only covering the slot that's inside the gearbox)

Some minor things:

-Where is the angled steering system from the TRF 511? I for the best steering characteristics the steering system should be parallel to the steering uprights, like was done on the TRF 511 and 501X.

-The rear shocks are not reversible like on the TRF 511. Shocks can only mounted on the front side of the suspension arms. BTW: I didn't like driving the rear mounted option on the TRF 511.

-The gear box housings are not fully sealed like on the TRF 201. A sealing edge is missing. The gearboxes are very stiff and secured with 6 screws, so hopefully there is no need for sealing edges.

-accessing the motor screws is not easy, an improved motor mount like on the B44.1 should be nice.

- a double slipper clutch, I like this option very much on the TRF 511

So hopefully tamiya releases soon an updated front gear box cover and improved diff joints.

This is your post

agree with point one 2mm spacer longer bolt job done

point 2

no more than any car with similar design (B44 D4)

point 3

not possible as gear box in the way

point 4

no where does it say this can be done!

Point 5

Again no more than cars of similar design (B44 D4)

Point 6

Not a problem if kit supplied allen key used

Point 7

Both the 511 and 502 have the same type of slipper clutch

like i said it sounds like you dont like this car.

stu

[Chris]

This is your post

agree with point one 2mm spacer longer bolt job done

point 2

no more than any car with similar design (B44 D4)

point 3

not possible as gear box in the way

point 4

no where does it say this can be done!

Point 5

Again no more than cars of similar design (B44 D4)

Point 6

Not a problem if kit supplied allen key used

Point 7

Both the 511 and 502 have the same type of slipper clutch

like i said it sounds like you dont like this car.

stu

point 1; Stupid solution, shocks are not perpendicular to the suspension arms which gives bad performance!

point 2; Have a good look at the B44.1 the slots are outside the housing.

point 3; Have a good look at the DB02.

point 4; Still not possible to mount shocks at the rear side of the suspension arm and as mentioned before i don't think there is any need for it.

point 5; After testing it is proven that no dust will get inside the gearboxes, a sealing edge is not essential.

point 6; It's easier with a B44.1 motormount!

point 7; Obviously you don't have a clue what a double slipper clutch is and what is does.

Some other improvement points:
-the inner camber link mounts are too high
-the front gearbox cover should be reinforced

Why do you think i don't like this car? I love it! But if you read my posts in this topic welll, i wrote that there is room for improvement.

[discostu]

point 1; Stupid solution, shocks are not perpendicular to the suspension arms which gives bad performance!

point 2; Have a good look at the B44.1 the slots are outside the housing.

point 3; Have a good look at the DB02.

point 4; Still not possible to mount shocks at the rear side of the suspension arm and as mentioned before i don't think there is any need for it.

point 5; After testing it is proven that no dust will get inside the gearboxes, a sealing edge is not essential.

point 6; It's easier with a B44.1 motormount!

point 7; Obviously you don't have a clue what a double slipper clutch is and what is does.

Some other improvement points:
-the inner camber link mounts are too high
-the front gearbox cover should be reinforced

Why do you think i don't like this car? I love it! But if you read my posts in this topic welll, i wrote that there is room for improvement.

clearly i havent got a clue i do appologise

one thing can you please explain to me what the difference between the 511 slipper and the 502 slipper.

also can you show me a picture of the lower gearbox detail of the db02 to see how they have achived the clearnce for the angled steering rack.

camber link to high not if your racing on high grip
gearbox cover pssibly differnt matterial possibly the db02 gearbox top (softer plastic) not carbon composit

yes the b44 mount is easier but the 502 doesn't have that, thats why they supplied the correct tool for the job

as for mounting the shocks on the rear im confused tamiya do not say you can do this so so why are you surprised you cant!

the tower could be slightly angled agreed but the reason you have a ball at the top and bottom of the shock is so it can sit at its own angle to a point if tamiya had suplied the longer bolt and 2mm spacer not a problem.

the reason i think you dont like this car is you have posted nothing but negatives towards it.

stu

[kidcongo]

The 502X is a great performer and very durable......has some quirks like anything. I feel some people have a "hate-on" for it because they have so much invested in their 511's and don't want the future to wipe that slate clean. No one likes it when the model they have spare parts, driving comfort, and maintenance know-how for gets deleted, but time waits for no one. I'm sure the 502X will be history soon enough.

RE the slipper assembly: I cannot see how heat from the motor could be conducted through the tiny ball of the slipper assembly bearings and be heating it up significantly. I have pots from my stove that have metal handles welded right to the pot. The metal handles never get hot because they are only tack-welded in three small spots. You need surface area to conduct heat, and I don't see it happening through the bearings (which only truly have contact in a microscopic edge of the inner balls). The slipper is essentially thermally insulated from the motor. I am glad Tamiya included an aluminum motor mount as that works like a heatsink for the motor and keeps temps in check.

My slipper and diffs are silky and I have no problems with settings drifting during a race. I am thinking of upgrading to ceramic balls, but that is after about a year of running the car.

Try tightening your diff a bit so you dont get flat spots on the balls.

[DaveG28]

Point 3: there's room. Not sure what angle can be achieved but I think with the right design enough. It isn't easy to see but look carefully here and you can see the db02 is angled. It has also pushed the steering rods into a much more 511 position:

http://kentech.blogs.se/2012/01/26/more-tamiya-db02-leonis-pictures-12529054/

Bad news is I cannot think of an easy way of achieving this on a 502, you need a 511 style steering base I think to create the angle off a carbon chassis, if the db02 has the angle though maybe the next TRF will again.

From Lee Martins setups from Euro's looks like he was getting around the outer wheel lock issue by cutting into the castor block to allow more inner lock.

Re double slipper: I love it! It creates a system where the rear belt can slip Independant of the front belt, and I think this really helps it when landing off jumps on high grip tracks. Unfortunately, you can't set it independantly, you only have one nut, but it will slip independantly.

Doesn't Kyosho have something on their 4wd?

[Chris]

Re double slipper: I love it! It creates a system where the rear belt can slip Independant of the front belt, and I think this really helps it when landing off jumps on high grip tracks. Unfortunately, you can't set it independantly, you only have one nut, but it will slip independantly.

Doesn't Kyosho have something on their 4wd?

You can use a different slipper pad for front and rear.

Point 3: there's room. Not sure what angle can be achieved but I think with the right design enough. It isn't easy to see but look carefully here and you can see the db02 is angled. It has also pushed the steering rods into a much more 511 position:

http://kentech.blogs.se/2012/01/26/more-tamiya-db02-leonis-pictures-12529054/

Bad news is I cannot think of an easy way of achieving this on a 502, you need a 511 style steering base I think to create the angle off a carbon chassis, if the db02 has the angle though maybe the next TRF will again.



The center drive shaft is more up on a DB02, this is done to create clearance for the steering rack at front and the battery at right.

[Chris]

RE the slipper assembly: I cannot see how heat from the motor could be conducted through the tiny ball of the slipper assembly bearings and be heating it up significantly.

You don't use metal shielded bearings?



Try tightening your diff a bit so you dont get flat spots on the balls.

I do not get flat spots on the balls. Fact is that the slipper gets very hot in my TRF502X, with the same motor it remain cool in the TRF511 with the same motor. I will try a different brand of motor next race. And teflon shielded bearings ;)

[kidcongo]

The metal shield of the metal sheilded bearing does not touch both sides. That is how the bearing rolls. If they were in contact on both sides the bearing would be seized. There is a gap.

[Fredrik Emilsson]

Think you can expect Tamiya to make a few adjustments on 502X...

[DaveG28]

Think you can expect Tamiya to make a few adjustments on 502X...

Yep, I've trawled pictures from big events and I think there may be things in the works, the question is when!?

Any hopups on display at the toy fair?

[mof]

Think you can expect Tamiya to make a few adjustments on 502X...

http://vimeo.com/35763541

"Little bit secret under there, some new parts maybe..." at 2:07 :)

[DaveG28]

http://vimeo.com/35763541

"Little bit secret under there, some new parts maybe..." at 2:07 :)

There's a picture of the 4wd body off from the reedy which gives away a clue ;)

[DaveG28]

Doesn't look like there is anything at the toy fair, only trf stuff is 44mm driveshafts which I think are trf417 size aren't they?

[mof]

There's a picture of the 4wd body off from the reedy which gives away a clue ;)

Where? :woot:

[DaveG28]

Where? :woot:

Can't remember, but I think it was a website starting RC, so rcinsider/rcspecial?

[t8rtot]

Can't remember, but I think it was a website starting RC, so rcinsider/rcspecial?
.
http://rcinsider.com/?paged=3

it wouldn't be this photo number 8 would it?

i can't see much maybe big bores??? but it's tough to tell? :confused::thumbdown:

[DaveG28]

That the pic, not big bores!

[DaveG28]

What's the Part number for the alloy servo mount that fits on the 502?

You know, near the STEERING!

[DaveG28]

Here you go, the bit I meant in the picture has a part number:

http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/item.php?product-id=84283

[DavidAMS]

nice! :thumbsup:

[kentech]

Here you go, the bit I meant in the picture has a part number:

http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/item.php?product-id=84283

March 17th release in Japan.

http://www.tamiya.com/japan/news/newitems/index.htm

[trowta]

is there a photo for this part ?????

[df-03]

Tamiya rims fit fine, all you do first time you use the fronts is line the hex up and then tighten the nut to push the hex in the wheel over the hex on the axle!

You know if you have it right, because if so it is only tight for about half a turn of the nut then it loosens again once the hex pops over the fitment!


it is there problem with the white tamiya wheels or with the tamiya hex? I hade try already your way of fiting the wheels but the problem is that i have now two pieces hex, it is broken on half :mad:

[Martin Wallace]

it is there problem with the white tamiya wheels or with the tamiya hex? I hade try already your way of fiting the wheels but the problem is that i have now two pieces hex, it is broken on half :mad:


dont thinkso , you may have over tightened the nut like i did and broke it as this is what i have done.

[df-03]

yes, i come whit that idea before you post it so i do not blame you for mine mistake if you think so :), mine question is it is there problem with white tamiya wheels only, or black and other tamiya wheels fits without problems or i have to use some other brand hexes?

[pugs]

it is there problem with the white tamiya wheels or with the tamiya hex? I hade try already your way of fiting the wheels but the problem is that i have now two pieces hex, it is broken on half :mad:


Hit the front wheel hard enough and it can crack the hex in half, but you don't notice until you take the wheel off and you have 2 bits:lol: have had it twice on my trf511....its just if you catch them at the wrong angle because they are very hard. If it broke when you have been fitting the front wheel before you run the car then it has not been aligned up right with the hex in the wheel. Never had a one break when fitting the white wheels.....

[DaveG28]

yes, i come whit that idea before you post it so i do not blame you for mine mistake if you think so :), mine question is it is there problem with white tamiya wheels only, or black and other tamiya wheels fits without problems or i have to use some other brand hexes?

I find one of the yellow ones slightly easier but not much. I have only broken hexes where the wheel had been fitted wrong either that time or before. Unless the inner hex surface on the wheel is completely flat it snaps the hex, check for material in that hex. It's caught me out once or twice!

[fastinfastout]

the tamiya rims are a very very tight fit.

I ran my hexs through some emery paper on all 6 sides until they slide on and off easily. Otherwise you might break another hex from putting too much pressure getting the wheel off(happened twice already)

[df-03]

yes, i think that i would in future grind the hexes with some sandpaper to make them fit easy cause spareparts are hard to geth :mad:

[DaveG28]

On the steering, I fitted the new angled steering at the weekend, and am in 2 minds on it:

1. It did feel more linear, less twitchy and just felt a bit more "right" to drive.

2. However....it still leaves an issue on steering lock, and it doesn't feel like spacing the inner studs forward fixes this like on the std steering, the geometry makes it less effective (or seems to).

So...I am either looking for ways to increase lock on tight tracks still, or will need to swap between the std and angled versions for different conditions.

Has anyone else tried it??

[marco NL]

hi Dave

you have a photo of the new steering on yor car.
am wondering how it looks.
My TRF502 is almost ready I'm going to use std steering first.
I still waiting for rudebits weight set and the x-gear springs.
I post a picture when is ready.

question setup
Dave do yo have a good setup for clay???

Thanks Marco

[trowta]

hey Dave,

I have done some testing and argee with you in the most part, the car feels different and it does give more steering thru the entry and middle, but something still feels wrong, anyways I have reverted back the spacing the alloy original one 4mm and it is much more consistant.

[Aussie Top Force]

I just built my 502X and found the quality to be just as good as my 201. Ok, the shocks and turn buckles are not the premium versions but they are still excellent quality!

I purchased many options as well and fitted them during the build.

I'm trying to figure out how the front shocks "bind", as many people discuss. I have mounted them in the stock position and the movement is free and smooth. Yes I agree the front shock tower is not at the same angle as the front kick up, but this does not cause a "bind". The shocks still sit at a similar angle to the kick up. The only way they would bind would be if you over tightened the plastic nut that holds them to the top shock mount, which would crush the plastic bushing the shock that shock cap rides on.

War paint is yet to be applied and all new LRP/Reedy electrics are on the way including an Sanwa M11X.

I choose the 502X after much reading of these threads, for one reason alone, sealed diffs and shaft drive. I ran Yokomos back in the 1990s and I was forever striping down diffs due to dust contamination! Now I have kids and less time, rebuilding cars after every race meet is not how I want to spend a lot of my time.

Further, Lee Martin has had some recent successes with the 502X and the recent mods from TRF and Rudebits show the car is being developed. can't wait to race it!

[kidcongo]

I just built my 502X and found the quality to be just as good as my 201. Ok, the shocks and turn buckles are not the premium versions but they are still excellent quality!

I purchased many options as well and fitted them during the build.

I'm trying to figure out how the front shocks "bind", as many people discuss. I have mounted them in the stock position and the movement is free and smooth. Yes I agree the front shock tower is not at the same angle as the front kick up, but this does not cause a "bind". The shocks still sit at a similar angle to the kick up. The only way they would bind would be if you over tightened the plastic nut that holds them to the top shock mount, which would crush the plastic bushing the shock that shock cap rides on.
!

When I first ran my 502X the shocks did not bind either, however after the top plastic bushings lose their shine and get a bit rough or gritty they can bind. I found this happened with mine. If you watch the movement of the shock with the stock set-up, as you compress the front arms the shocks both rotate in relation to the top bushing, while at the same time twisting around the bushing ball. If you install one of the carbon spacers that offsets the shock tower forward, it eliminates the twisting motion on the plastic bushing and the shocks are much smoother as they are simply turning around the bushing, not twisting as well (if that makes sense to you).

Anyways.....the steering upgrade kit is a "must" in my opinion as well (I see you already have that). All is all the 502X has been great for me so far. Very durable, more so than the Durangos or B44's at my track from my observation. Even though the car looks delicate it's tough.

[Aussie Top Force]

Thanks for that info. Yes, I understand what you mean in relation to the twisting. I did notice it that, but being new, as you said they are smooth.

I have ordered the spacers from Frederik, but they are yet to arrive. I did note that Lee Martin's car is running them, so I thought best to order them from the beginning!

SInce positing the car is nearly complete with Rudebits Camberlinks:

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.asp?cid=115790&id=33946

I hope to get the car to a track in a few weeks.

[Chris]

After testing the TRF502X upgrade kit i can say the car is now really a top level 4WD off-roader.

Will the TRF511 with upgrade set be as fast as the upgraded TRF502X?

Still hoping for a (soon) release of gear diffs for the TRF502X and a more angled shock tower attachment.



- the shock tower attachment on the front upper gearbox cover does have a wrong angle. This should be the same angle as the front kick-up. The result is binding of the front shocks when mounted according the manual. It can be solved by use of a double shock tower, but the shocks won't be square with the lower arms. The TRF 511 doesn't have this problem.

-The slots in the diff joints are too large, in this way dust can easily enter the "sealed" gearbox. To prevent this i used a piece of heat shrink to cover the slots. (only covering the slot that's inside the gearbox)

[kidcongo]

My first niight out with the 502X upgrade chassis I took 1st in one of the heats, and 3rd in the A-Main, which for me was quite a step-up. Not sure if it was the improvements to the 502X chassis or just luck, but the car seemed much more connected and responsive with the upgrade set. I found I was thinking at lots less about driving the car, and doing better as a result.

[Aussie Top Force]

I agree with others, the upgrade set works a treat!

However, here is something that needs improving. the rear sway bat mounts are too exposed and easily moved as the screws don't tighten well.

This one was ripped out by another vehicle rear ending the 502X.:cry:

I've PM's Fredrik to see if he can find a solution:)

[taomo]

I agree with others, the upgrade set works a treat!

However, here is something that needs improving. the rear sway bat mounts are too exposed and easily moved as the screws don't tighten well.

This one was ripped out by another vehicle rear ending the 502X.:cry:

I've PM's Fredrik to see if he can find a solution:)

I'm also interested in a solution to this problem.
The upgrade set works fine for me too but, with the new rear shock tower, the wing touch the rear tires in fast corners :bored:

Regards

[Chris]

Gear diffs for the TRF502X?

http://www.tamiya.com/trf/images/TB04/tb04%20pro_005.jpg

[taomo]

Gear diffs for the TRF502X:

http://www.tamiya.com/trf/images/TB04/tb04%20pro_005.jpg

Seriously??!! where did you find this info? image is from a touring car. I want gear diffs on my 502x (and now, in my new 201XR too :thumbsup:)

Best regards

[Aussie Top Force]

Wow, gear diffs would be interesting, as long as they were built tuff enough for off road!

Fitted big bores to my 502X this afternoon. They are nice and smooth. The A good thing is that the springs are offset far enough so they don't rub on the shock body. That was an issue with both the standard shocks and the H/L shocks. Thus if you are thinking of upgrading skip the H/L dampers and go straight for the big bores. The BB's come with two sets of pistons - 1.7 and 1.6, so no need to buy the separate piston set up front. Although you do need to purchase the separate spring set. I used the 1.7 pistons to start with. Time to get back to the track!

[Chris]

It looks that the TB-04 pro uses the same gear cases as the TB-03. So most likely the gear diffs won't fit the TRF502X :(

[Chris]

Coming soon:

SRP TRF502X shorty chassis
7.5 mm longer wheelbase
compatible with 2mm-thick Carbon Fiber Servo Mount (1-sided attachment)

[rcyogi1]

AWESOME!!!!

[SiR_Dave]

Coming soon:

SRP TRF502X shorty chassis
7.5 mm longer wheelbase
compatible with 2mm-thick Carbon Fiber Servo Mount (1-sided attachment)

Bad Ass!!!! Can't wait !! also Pm'd you as well:drool::woot:

[SiR_Dave]

Coming soon:

SRP TRF502X shorty chassis
7.5 mm longer wheelbase
compatible with 2mm-thick Carbon Fiber Servo Mount (1-sided attachment)
:D
http://m.memegen.com/4e660i.jpg

[Aussie Top Force]

I ran my 502 in 4wd Stock (17.5T Blinky) this last weekend at the Castlehill Pro-Am, Sydney. It is also the 1st race of the NSW Club Series.

I managed to qualify 7th in a field of 20 or so runners and finished up 8th. Not a bad effort I thought considering my last race was September last year at the Vintage Festival and that I've never run in the class before. I managed to improve my times over each of the qualifying runs. I went from 12 to 7th in the 2nd Q and held onto 7th in the final Q, but significant improved my time.

I borrowed an LRP X12 motor from a friend, swapped in a 69 tooth spur and used a 29 tooth pinion. The car was pretty good on the loose track, plenty of grip on line, very loose offline. I was running saddle packs - Fredericks carbon fibre cradles which bring the packs closer to the centre of the car.

My goal is to run each of the 4 Club Series events in this class and improve as I go.

[Cobra]

This is my re-chassis on the 502, all parts taken from the original car, well not quite I,ve used the floating servo mount from the 503.
The front centre drive shaft is steel, allows the servo to get closer to the centre of the chassis. Milled pocket for the lipo to sit in and one under the motor, hopefully running it this Sunday on astro

Ken

[suparajicon]

Looks neat!

That speedo it,s a beast!

[SiR_Dave]

Coming soon:

SRP TRF502X shorty chassis
7.5 mm longer wheelbase
compatible with 2mm-thick Carbon Fiber Servo Mount (1-sided attachment)


Chris any update on this... I know your a busy person... but still very interested.. also what happened to your facebook page??:confused: looks to have been taken down:cry:

This is my re-chassis on the 502, all parts taken from the original car, well not quite I,ve used the floating servo mount from the 503.
The front centre drive shaft is steel, allows the servo to get closer to the centre of the chassis. Milled pocket for the lipo to sit in and one under the motor, hopefully running it this Sunday on astro

Ken

Ken might be a little late to this post of yours :D ... but I was wondering how the car handled with this set up..?? Looks interesting.... I have been doing a few things as far as weight balance and using the stock center drive shafts... it looks like we can flip the front and rear shafts and lengthen the chassis about 3~4mm with a little grinding to the center slipper shaft also making a new front and rear upper decks should be worth trying out... just have to see if Chris will still do this chassis.. if not then I will have BEZERK make a few:woot:

[SiR_Dave]

E-mail sent to BEZERK.... 100% sure he can make this chassis and upped decks:thumbsup:.. along with a few other improvements..Narrow lower deck.... I'll post more once I get an e-mail back:woot: