BRCA Rules: Random Questions

[DaveG28]

Couple of questions, my eyes glaze over when reading the rules:

1. Can you only drop down one license grade per year? Eg an F2 this year will still be an F3 next year even if they don't do any racing at all in 2011?

2. These new bodyshell rules...are you only able to have a single airhole each side front, and the same rearwards, to a max 1cm diameter? Not multiple holes even if they are all inside the marked areas?

[RogerM]

I asked Paul Worsley about the rule concerning holes in shells and unless I misunderstood his reply it is basically

max dimension (on any plane) of a hole is 10mm, maximum material removal to total not more than 30mm to allow for removal on compound curves / unusual surfaces.

I still think it is a bit difficult to understand the rule as writen and suggested a drawing of what is acceptable would be useful (like they do with touring car wings etc)

[coolcars782]

I still don't understand why there is a rule of holes in the shell, it isn't going to cause injury to anyone and it's not aiding performance and will only be used for cooling the esc/batteries :confused::confused:

[mark christopher]

So you can not cut a body to The manufactures cooling holes? Wtf?

Maybe its an idea to retain the flames from these dodgy Lipo we use.........

[TheReferee]

it is so a marshall cannot stick a finger through onto a moving spur etc.

as for davids "F" question, yes you drop by 1 grade per year so if you are an f3 and do nothing the next year you drop to f4, and so on.

for example neil cragg drops to f2 this year (and would be my bet for the BRC:D). darren bloomfield who has been missing for a couple of years will be f3, the richards Cree/barton/taylor will be anywhere from f3-f5, so if they all come back this season the top f3 trophy at a national will be a tough one to win!!.

it is of course entirely feasable for the podium places at all the nationals not to contain an F1. wonder what the odds are at corals?

[Chrislong]

But is it not still in the rule book, that if a driver has ever been an F1 and ended a national season in top25, they will never drop below F3 ever ever. I think this will be the case with Cree/Barton/Taylor?

I think my highest position was 26th? :(

[coolcars782]

it is so a marshall cannot stick a finger through onto a moving spur etc.


I think this should only be applicable to mid motor cars which have the spur gear inside the shell, whereas the popular b4's, rb5's etc have the spur out the back with a gear cover, if there was holes in the rear motor car shells you shouldn't touch anything moving.

[RudeTony]

Stupid rule - what about the tyres spinning up or a finger in the drive shaft and the list can go on an on - it's about the driver not jammin the throttle open when being marshaled and nothing else.....
If everyone helped building the right frame of mind instead of rule after rule and rule and rule then the sport would be better by far .....

[RogerM]

From the discussion I had with Paul it is just bringing it into line with the EFRA / IFMAR rules and it was pointed out to me that they run in much hotter countries than the UK.

My reason for asking was about gaps in the rear of the shell when switching from mid to rear motor (which of course Scorpion can). I just wanted to know if I would need 2 shells or not.

I have no real opinion on the rule, I am sure it is there for good reasons.

[TheReferee]

But is it not still in the rule book, that if a driver has ever been an F1 and ended a national season in top25, they will never drop below F3 ever ever. I think this will be the case with Cree/Barton/Taylor?

I think my highest position was 26th? :(

that is my understanding but i would need to check.
john

[mark christopher]

Stupid rule - what about the tyres spinning up or a finger in the drive shaft and the list can go on an on - it's about the driver not jammin the throttle open when being marshaled and nothing else.....
If everyone helped building the right frame of mind instead of rule after rule and rule and rule then the sport would be better by far .....
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

tony maybe mudguards will be next!!

tenth ic , must be marshalled by real men then 50mm hole in windscreen, 30mm hole over a hot engine (heck) and open spurs and pinions under the body that are not enclosed!!

bring out the cotton wool guys!!

[MattW]

Sensible (ish) thing to do, would have been to have adopted an IP rating - and the general rating given to something that needs to be "finger proof" is IP2X - which would say that anything above 12.5mm wouldn't be able to get in - i.e a 12.5mm hole was allowed.

That said, on the whole, can't help thinking it's all a bit daft. My Cat SX shell has the std air vent removed, it measures in the region of 11.5x16, and now that shell isn't legal...... You'd have to "try" and put your finger through it.

Roger, yes, it's hotter in a lot of parts of the world - but a lot of the time, they are running on dirt, with a lot less load on the motor - hence, doesn't generate as much heat internally.

[bert digler]

Sensible (ish) thing to do, would have been to have adopted an IP rating - and the general rating given to something that needs to be "finger proof" is IP2X - which would say that anything above 12.5mm wouldn't be able to get in - i.e a 12.5mm hole was allowed.

That said, on the whole, can't help thinking it's all a bit daft. My Cat SX shell has the std air vent removed, it measures in the region of 11.5x16, and now that shell isn't legal...... You'd have to "try" and put your finger through it.

Roger, yes, it's hotter in a lot of parts of the world - but a lot of the time, they are running on dirt, with a lot less load on the motor - hence, doesn't generate as much heat internally.

love it:thumbsup: so whats the cowin rule in english please

[mark christopher]

Sensible (ish) thing to do, would have been to have adopted an IP rating - and the general rating given to something that needs to be "finger proof" is IP2X - which would say that anything above 12.5mm wouldn't be able to get in - i.e a 12.5mm hole was allowed.

That said, on the whole, can't help thinking it's all a bit daft. My Cat SX shell has the std air vent removed, it measures in the region of 11.5x16, and now that shell isn't legal...... You'd have to "try" and put your finger through it.

Roger, yes, it's hotter in a lot of parts of the world - but a lot of the time, they are running on dirt, with a lot less load on the motor - hence, doesn't generate as much heat internally.

so should we go the whole hog and ban spoked wheels and tyres with spikes on them?

[TheReferee]

the rules were brought in by EFRA, we decided to follow and added them to the brca rules, the thinking was that if we kept what we had then we could cause problems for our drivers attending EFRA events, having a shell that was allowed at our nationals and then the driver having to change shells at the euro's. or worse turning up at the event and having your shell disqualified along with your score!!.

i am not 100% sure on why efra decided on the scope and size of holes, but i believe that the old rules which said you could only make openings if they were marked by the shell manufacturer led to some shells appearing with a multitude of marked areas. it could of led to the situation of a buggy shell being nothing more than a skeleton atop a chassis.

the rules are confusing and i find it difficult myself to work out exactly what is or isn't allowed but they were written so all of the efra block could understand them!. i think the term "lost in translation" comes to mind.

[TheReferee]

and another thing!!

it is up to the club whether they enforce this particular rule, as far as am aware no one club racing cares!, at the nationals last year PW would point out to a driver if a shell was falling foul of the rules, but as far as i am aware no car was stopped from racing.

[mark christopher]

and another thing!!

it is up to the club whether they enforce this particular rule, as far as am aware no one club racing cares!, at the nationals last year PW would point out to a driver if a shell was falling foul of the rules, but as far as i am aware no car was stopped from racing.
devils advocate
so why have a rule?

[Fast Eddie]

I've just tried putting a motor in my dogs fluffy elephant but it didnt go too well:woot:

He bit me which disproves the cotton wool theory:thumbsup:

[Chrislong]

I do think this is a good thing, and if PW is only pointing out and not penalising - even better.

I remember attending Euro's and getting bodyshell rejected, they'd get you to sort it after first warning and then penalise after that. It resulted in bodyshell holes being covered (completely or partially) with gaffer tape. So now UK drivers would be more aware of this ruling and attend with less suprises to deal with.... id assume PW would now point out more obviously and give advice to anyone he knows to be attending the Euro's to help them prepare.

[mark christopher]

So back to my question Chris. Why have a rule and not enforce it? If you do that you Carnt penalize using other rules for other infringements.

[Chrislong]

Stop asking the same question, its toy car racing, we all do it for enjoyment (racers, BRCA officials etc). Nobody wants to give a penalty, nobody wants to receive a penalty so why would they when a bit of sense and discretion can be used.... its not like charging a Lipo to 10v or cutting a corner which does give an advantage.

I can see what they are doing brings the rules in line with EFRA, not necessarily right rule, but right to be in-line (hence my comment about us having to tape up shells at previous Euro's).

So its fair for this to be used to 'highlight' to drivers, perhaps penalties will start for repeat offenders, who knows - but I can see its fair what they are doing.

[Col]

I thought I read that the advise regarding the (then future...) new rules was given last year to get people "into line" for this years nationals. Therefore there will be very little give in the rules for this year.
I may have mis-read though.

[Chrislong]

If there's any doubt, speak/show to the drivers rep, PW or JC, get it clarrified asap.

[TheReferee]

If there's any doubt, speak/show to the drivers rep, PW or JC, get it clarrified asap.

don't show it to me!, joe 's shell was one he pointed out as wrong:(

[Chrislong]

Ha ha, well atleast you have example of what not to do! :lol:

[DaveG28]

Can someone confirm, if my shell holes turn out to be too big, is it legal to just tape them up?

[warped]

"22.2 Open roll cage style cars will be permitted to compete if the entrant can supply proof that the car is
closely based on a full size example."

All you need to do is fabricate a roll cage and you can totally ignore all the rules on ventilation.:thumbsup:


http://www.brca.org/sites/default/files/library_files/BRCAchairman/Handbook2011%20Final%20with%20Mods.%20Publish%201% 2010off%20road.pd (http://www.brca.org/sites/default/files/library_files/BRCAchairman/Handbook2011%20Final%20with%20Mods.%20Publish%201% 2010off%20road.pdf)f

[Col]

"22.2 Open roll cage style cars will be permitted to compete if the entrant can supply proof that the car is
closely based on a full size example."

All you need to do is fabricate a roll cage and you can totally ignore all the rules on ventilation.:thumbsup:


http://www.brca.org/sites/default/files/library_files/BRCAchairman/Handbook2011%20Final%20with%20Mods.%20Publish%201% 2010off%20road.pd (http://www.brca.org/sites/default/files/library_files/BRCAchairman/Handbook2011%20Final%20with%20Mods.%20Publish%201% 2010off%20road.pdf)f

and what cars exactly are our 10th off road closely based on?