Kyosho Lazer ZX-5 SP

[Metla]

Anything to get excited over?

[Scouser]

Well hex head screws are enough to get excited over on their own!! Other than that it seems as though they have added the LAW34 conversion in with the kit and there is a new bodyshell.
I suppose there isn't a great deal to go mad over, I actually prefer the stock bodyshell but it is a great car none the less.;)

[Supergreg]

I also prefer the "classic" shell over the new one.

[jimmy]

The new front suspension looks pretty neat

[RLGfx]

looks to me like a better all-round package. New steering assembly (knuckles etc), new rear suspension, and the new shocks (same as RB5). Looks pretty good to me! :cool:

[sosidge]

Just remember people, there are some older SP kits out there that were put together by Kyosho Europe with the LAW34 added in with an original ZX-5.

The new SP is a new kit out of Kyosho Japan, you can tell straight away that it is different because it will have the new body.

Wouldn't like anyone to buy an old euro-SP by mistake!

Don't know whether Kyosho Europe have brought any of the new jap-SP in though?

[RLGfx]

apparently the latest ZX-5 SP will be available in the next few weeks, just in time for christmas! :D

[Metla]

Just remember people, there are some older SP kits out there that were put together by Kyosho Europe with the LAW34 added in with an original ZX-5.

The new SP is a new kit out of Kyosho Japan, you can tell straight away that it is different because it will have the new body.

Wouldn't like anyone to buy an old euro-SP by mistake!

Don't know whether Kyosho Europe have brought any of the new jap-SP in though?

A-Main are currently selling athe ZX-5 with a SP conversion kit, Including the new body.

Looks like an alright package to me.

[Mr X]

so is the kit on amain the one with the new style knukles and the different suspension?

[beast95451]

so is the kit on amain the one with the new style knukles and the different suspension?
What are these new style knuckles you speak of?:confused:

[Metla]

so is the kit on amain the one with the new style knukles and the different suspension?

They don't list the specifics of the conversion kit, But did tell me it takes it to the same specs as the SP kit.

[jimmy]

What are these new style knuckles you speak of?:confused:


http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/worldchampionships-2007/day4/zx503.jpg

Those are metal prototypes from the world champs - the final ones are plastic.

[KyoshoK]

WHY are those knuckles better? i never had a problem with the TC style knuckles

[jimmy]

No idea - they're new?
The hubs pivot outside the wishbone now - before they were well inside the outer hinge pin - perhaps that makes a difference.
Perhaps this design is more tunable (well that's for certain) or just stronger - but either way it's used on most 4wd cars and every world champion winning 4wd car for many years.

[beast95451]

i never had a problem with the TC style knuckles
What are these TC knuckles you speak of?? Are they stronger than stock? I love my ZX-5 & I think it is very durable, but I tend to break front hubs & knuckles on semi-regular basis....are there upgraded ones that I don't know about? Jimmy, are the plastic versions of the ones you posted available? link? part#?

[jimmy]

The wishbones are different also - so I'm not sure what else might be different. The cars in Japan were running rear arms on the front - not sure about the final version. I would assume a kit with all the bits you need will be released but Kyosho isn't the best company in the world for providing information - I think they just have so many products.

[beast95451]

Can you use Associated TC-5 castor blocks & knuckles on the ZX-5? Are they stronger than stock?

[JCJC]

Why is this info filtering onto here like this, I would expect to see JonBoy at least post complete details, with part numbers and availability.

Its almost as if Kyosho release these things, but there is a secret trail you have to follow to get the correct information. Surely if you have a good product and are proud of it you want to sell it and see people happy with it.

Come on JonBoy and Kyosho, proper part numbers and all the rest of it. oOple must be the best place in the world to make your product look good, lets see more from the horses mouth !!!

[kek23k]

LAW35 is the number for the SP conversion kit. See here:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.kyosho.com/jpn/products/rc/acce_result.html%3Fsub_series_id%3D100063%26s1%3D% 26s2%3D%26sx%3D%26page%3D3&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=3&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dlaw35%2Bsite:kyosho.com%26num%3D30%26 hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26hs%3Dkhf%26sa%3DG%26as_qdr%3Dall

[JCJC]

LAW35 is the number for the SP conversion kit. See here:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.kyosho.com/jpn/products/rc/acce_result.html%3Fsub_series_id%3D100063%26s1%3D% 26s2%3D%26sx%3D%26page%3D3&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=3&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dlaw35%2Bsite:kyosho.com%26num%3D30%26 hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26hs%3Dkhf%26sa%3DG%26as_qdr%3Dall

No - not working for me - blank page? but thanks, LAW35, will look out for it.

[kek23k]

The Kyosho page is timing out for some reason, it was working last night :(

[beast95451]

Can you use Associated TC-5 castor blocks & knuckles on the ZX-5? Are they stronger than stock?
Anyone???

[Metla]

That info on the translated page (link does work)

Your laser ZX-5 SP specification can be converted KONBAJONSETTO.
このセットを導入することで、2007 EPオフロード世界選手権に出場したマシンの足回りを再現する事が可能。 This set by introducing the 2007 EP offload world tournament in the leg by machine to reproduce it.
新設計のフロントサスは大きな舵角と幅広い調整対応力を実現。 The new design is a big FURONTOSASU rudder and the corresponding ability to achieve a wide range of adjustment. 同じく新設計のリヤサスは、加重変化によるトラクション活用が行いやすく、自在の操縦性を様々な路面状況で 発揮します。 Another new design RIYASASU, aggravated by the change in use of traction and easy, flexible maneuverability to manifest in a variety of road surface conditions.
＜コンバージョンセットの内容＞ <KONBAJONSETTO contents>
■フロントハブキャリア（R）（10°） ■ FURONTOHABUKYARIA (R) (10 °)
■フロントハブキャリア（R）（7°） ■ FURONTOHABUKYARIA (R) (7 °)
■フロントハブキャリア（L）（10°） ■ FURONTOHABUKYARIA (L) (10 °)
■フロントハブキャリア（L）（7°） ■ FURONTOHABUKYARIA (L) (7 °)
■ダンパープラパーツセット　 ■ DANPAPURAPATSUSETTO
■ショックキャップ<br> ■新型フロントホイール<br> ■フロントナックル（R）（L） ■ shock cap <br> ■ new front wheel <br> ■ front knuckles (R) (L)
■キングピンスリーブ<br> ■フロントサスアーム<br> ■リヤサスアーム<br> ■ユニバーサルスイングシャフト（73） ■ ■ FURONTOSASUAMU KINGUPINSURIBU <br> <br> ■ ■ YUNIBASARUSUINGUSHAFUTO RIYASASUAMU <br> (73)
■ユニバーサルスイングシャフト（60.5） ■ YUNIBASARUSUINGUSHAFUTO (60.5)
■取扱説明書 ■ instruction manual
パーツ単品でそろえるよりも約\2,400お得！ Parts single item in uniform than about \ 2400 best!



Clear as mud now?

Muhahahahaha.

I see the word knuckles in there.

[kek23k]

I can roughly see that it will include new front universal drive shafts, new wishbones, new hubs, new kingpins and shock caps. So it looks like it includes everything from LAW34 as well. Price looked good at about £30, so probably about £50-£60 when it gets over here :)

[beast95451]

WHY are those knuckles better? i never had a problem with the TC style knuckles
What are the TC style knuckles? part#? link?

[jimmy]

By TC knuckles I think he might be talking about the original ZX5 knuckles - sometimes called 'C Hub' in the realms of touring cars.

[kek23k]

Just spotted a pic of the conversion kit on amainhobbies, ou can see it HERE (http://www.amainhobbies.com/images/large/kyo30076b_combo_3.jpg)

Can't see too much, but it looks like it's got wheels and shocks in there.

[Scouser]

Looks like the a-arms, cvds and hubs are in there aswell. I will wait 'til after Christmas to do this though I think, I should be needing spares by then anyway:rolleyes:.

[JCJC]

anyone spot a price ?. looks a must ave'

[kek23k]

No proper prices yet, Amain are currently selling stock zx-5's with the conversion kit and the new bodyshell as a deal. But they haven't listed the conversion on it's own yet. I'm going to email them for a price today.

[JonBoy]

Hi all,

Been a long time but i'm back on board.... Anyway..........

The Lazer ZX5SP is in stock at Kyosho UK under the sku - 30077SP. It should have a RRP of £190.00 approx.

No confusion can be made with our old offer under sku - 30074SP which is actually discontinued since a longue time and can't be found in any shop around.

Also all kits coming from Kyosho UK will be special because you won't buy only a normal kit as usual but you will get more parts in it....Our Lazer ZX5SP will be a normal Lazer ZX5-30074 + ZX5 SP conversion set (LAW35) + ZX5SP Bodyshell & Wing (LAB03 "Bulcan" & LA251).......An all in one package.....for your winter season.

If you need more info just ask.........

[Deception]

is this same type of kit that Amain Hobbies is selling? the regular kit then the sp conv and the body / wing? http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_info.php/products_id/5026

thanks

and also does the kit from a-main include Hex Type screws or is it still phillips

[JCJC]

Welcome back JonBoy, have you been away ? lets hope you will be busy on these pages, when can we expect the Law35 kit and how much is it going to cost me?

Mick

[Hobie]

Hi all,

Been a long time but i'm back on board.... Anyway..........

The Lazer ZX5SP is in stock at Kyosho UK under the sku - 30077SP. It should have a RRP of £190.00 approx.

No confusion can be made with our old offer under sku - 30074SP which is actually discontinued since a longue time and can't be found in any shop around.

Also all kits coming from Kyosho UK will be special because you won't buy only a normal kit as usual but you will get more parts in it....Our Lazer ZX5SP will be a normal Lazer ZX5-30074 + ZX5 SP conversion set (LAW35) + ZX5SP Bodyshell & Wing (LAB03 "Bulcan" & LA251).......An all in one package.....for your winter season.

If you need more info just ask.........

Hello Jonboy,

Is the kit LAW34 included in the LAW35 ?

[bjcaldwe]

In the pic on the Amain site, the package shows what appears to be front rims. Are the rims on the Sp and the conversion a different offset to accomodate the change in front end parts?

[RogerM]

They do look like they maybe diffrent .... almost the same as the Losi style wheel used on other 4wds ..... now I wounder what size hex they might use ..... mmmm

I might well have to get one of the SP kits the day of release to find out ;)

[JCJC]

Also all kits coming from Kyosho UK will be special because you won't buy only a normal kit as usual but you will get more parts in it....Our Lazer ZX5SP will be a normal Lazer ZX5-30074 + ZX5 SP conversion set (LAW35) + ZX5SP Bodyshell & Wing (LAB03 "Bulcan" & LA251).......An all in one package.....for your winter season.

If you need more info just ask.........

I already have a Lazer, JonBoy, I just need details of the Law 35 kit, you know ..... when in the shops? whats in the bag? that sort of thing, a few photos.....you got a camera JonBoy? where you based,

Thanks for your time

[bjcaldwe]

Im thinking if you change the hex as you can on other cars you can maybe use the hb, tamiya, losi, b44 type of front rims.

[JonBoy]

Hi guys,

So where should i start? lololol......a lot to answer....:D

Anyway, we have tested the LAZER ZX5 SP as a full kit and we give to a few Team drivers some conversion kit to have both input and output....Last weekend during the PETIT RC RACE, all drivers builted their conversion kit on the saturday nigth and no surprise...Hmmm as part we had to rebuilt all shock with new shock shaft (Twin Cap one's) and the new shock caps.:cool:

-From Deception:is this same type of kit that Amain Hobbies is selling? the regular kit then the sp conv and the body / wing? http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...oducts_id/5026
thanks and also does the kit from a-main include Hex Type screws or is it still phillips

* Yes it will be the same package, Kyosho America and Kyosho UK will offer the same deal to retailers. All kits have phillips atm.

-From bjcaldwe: In the pic on the Amain site, the package shows what appears to be front rims. Are the rims on the Sp and the conversion a different offset to accomodate the change in front end parts?

* Yes they are Front rims. They are stronger (like Proline and Losi) and they got the same offset as the previous one. All our team drivers used at the race W5126 & W5126W without any problem.

-From Hobie:Hello Jonboy, Is the kit LAW34 included in the LAW35 ?

*In a way, yes LAW35 contain LAW34 as part the Twin Cap shock parts. Therefore it will be good to get the new upcoming Triple Cap shock W5194V and W5195V (They are the one that all Kyosho drivers had at the WC in Japan). The new shocks are made for the Lazer ZX5SP and RB5, new lenght ,new style, better handling.....

-From RogerM:now I wounder what size hex they might use ..... mmmm

*Same as usual. Some drivers will test soon some Tamiya as we did not have enought time to do so last weekend....Also in the new testing range of thing, we will try Losi/Proline rims....as you can see on the "upcoming" Lazer prototype.

-From JCJC:I already have a Lazer, JonBoy, I just need details of the Law 35 kit, you know ..... when in the shops? whats in the bag? that sort of thing, a few photos.....you got a camera JonBoy? where you based,Thanks for your time

*LAW35 is a combo set that offer you the opportunity to get the new rear end (LAW34 - W/O the shock parts) and the new SP front end. The bodyshell and the new wing are not part of the conversion kit. So you will get FR and RR arms (LA255/LA243), new FR & RR HUB, new FR & RR universal drive shaft (73MM/60.5MM), new knuckle and all small parts like collar, nuts......RRP at £69.00 approx. (**Please note, all RRP given are for your personal information. It's not an official RRP by Kyosho).

Thanks

[bjcaldwe]

Thanks for the info jonboy.

[Deception]

Thank you great info.....

[JCJC]

-From JCJC:I already have a Lazer, JonBoy, I just need details of the Law 35 kit, you know ..... when in the shops? whats in the bag? that sort of thing, a few photos.....you got a camera JonBoy? where you based,Thanks for your time

*LAW35 is a combo set that offer you the opportunity to get the new rear end (LAW34 - W/O the shock parts) and the new SP front end. The bodyshell and the new wing are not part of the conversion kit. So you will get FR and RR arms (LA255/LA243), new FR & RR HUB, new FR & RR universal drive shaft (73MM/60.5MM), new knuckle and all small parts like collar, nuts......RRP at £69.00 approx. (**Please note, all RRP given are for your personal information. It's not an official RRP by Kyosho).

Thanks

Great stuff JonBoy, so no new shock parts, bummer, have to have shockparts.

So I need LAW35, plus a kit to upgrade the shocks.......part number for that JonBoy ? (and why is it not included?)

[RogerM]

Details of the LAW35 upgrade kit ...... no ally front brace :(

Translated from Japanese website ...

Rather than arranging with the part single item, your approximately 2,400 profits! * The photograph is laser ZX-5 SP (No.30077). The conversion set which can convert stock laser ZX-5 to SP specification. By the fact that this set is introduced, it is possible to reproduce the underside of the machine which participated in 2007 EP off load world championship. The front suspension of the new design the big position of a vessel's helm actualizing wide adjustment corresponding power. Similarly, as for the rear suspension of the new design, the traction application with increase change is easy to do, unrestricted maneuverability in various road surface circumstances shows. Note: It converts from the normal kit perfectly, the separate shock-related product, it is necessary the body and the wing etc. to exchange. Contents > of < conversion set * front hub carrier (R) (10°) & front hub carrier (R) (7°) & front hub carrier (L) (10°) & front hub carrier (L) (7°) & ダンパープラパーツセット & shock cap & new model front wheel & front knuckle (R) (L) & king pin sleeve & front suspension arm & rear suspension arm & universal swing shaft (73) & universal swing shaft (60.5) * instruction manual

[JCJC]

Thanks Roger, clearer now.

I need a shock related part, but am looking for a kit of shock related items to do all 4shocks, rather than buy 2 kits (spect I will have to).:wtf:

I want to run the new front end but not have to change all my wheels, we use the Azarashi body & wing so will not need another, I also do not want to spend £100 on new bits to put on an old car, much as we love it. Guess we will sort it before the summer.

[Deception]

the front wheels i think are the same Hex Size they just added extra strength to them..... when i got my conversion kit from a main hobbies i tried both front wheels the kit ones and the SP ones and fit fine..... so you should not have a problem.... i have the alloy front brace and LAW 34 coming from a main so i can upgrade to the RB5 style Cartridge.... should be here in a couple days :)

[JCJC]

Cheers Deception, I couldn't face another set of wheels.

[RogerM]

I've been conversing with some of the Kyosho USA team guys (really helpful and a great resource ..... maybe they should have a UK team .. :) )

The front wheels are a new part number W5201 (add W for white as per the previous ones) and the offset is VERY diffrent from the original front wheels. If you use the original wheels the car will be VERY much over maximum width and thus illegal for racing in BRCA events.
The original rear wheels still fit though so there is no problem there.

The new front end geometry is more like the rest of the current crop of off-roaders (XX4 style front outboard) and the new rear end in the LAW35 kit is designed to balance the geometry to the new front end.

What you have here is a NEW CAR .... .only the transmission and chassis remains the same as before. The two major contributors to a cars handling are the weight distribution (chassis components) and suspension geometry. So as an absolute minimum you can consider it to be 50% new.

I am looking forward to my car arriving ...... I have only driven a couple of packs of cells through a ZX5 (had the rear - mid conversion fitted) and felt the car to be much nicer to drive than my BJ4WE, I had a couple of minor gripes about the way the car turned in but those should be resolved by the new suspension.

I'll let you know what I think as soon as I've tested the SP.

[kek23k]

You mention that weight distribution is one of the major changes, do you mean the prototype saddle pack chassis as I can't see how much it can be changed otherwise (apart from shifting the rear weight with the LAW34 rear wishbones)?

[JCJC]

..... maybe they should have a UK team .. :) ) it been muted on here before

So it may be half my wheels!!!!!! you seem to be becoming a bit of a resource yourself. :cool:

Thanks for the info

[jimmy]

if it's the same off set as the D4, then perhaps either D4 wheels will fit, and / or a D4 losi-style hex, meaning you could fit XX4 wheels on the front.

[RogerM]

You mention that weight distribution is one of the major changes, do you mean the prototype saddle pack chassis as I can't see how much it can be changed otherwise (apart from shifting the rear weight with the LAW34 rear wishbones)?

Sorry, probably didn't make myself clear enough.

The weight distribution will be largely unchanged ....... that is the 50% not to change .... yet.

The SP suspension should, in theory, make the car feel more positve and direct and allow it to change direction quicker than the original set-up. This sould make the car quicker around a lap but possibly a little more difficult to drive consistently ..... still should be stable tough so don't get put off!

[RogerM]

it been muted on here before

So it may be half my wheels!!!!!! you seem to be becoming a bit of a resource yourself. :cool:

Thanks for the info


I'm just a research monkey ..... LOL

Looking forward to getting my hands on this car.

[RogerM]

Jimmy,

very good point about the D4 drive hex and wheels ..... might be worth trying ..... now who has access to a D4 and a lazer?????

[Scouser]

I have just checked and the rears will work. I dont have any fronts at the moment though!:rolleyes:

[bjcaldwe]

Im ordering the HB drive hex for the front to use with losi rims and gonna try that when I get the SP conversion parts. I think it will be pretty close.

[jimmy]

On the Tamiya 501X I had to drill out the HB hex very slightly and also sand the back edge down again very slightly to get it to fit.. The Tamiya Hex is the same as losi but the axle size is very slightly different.
I'd think one or the other would fit, but the Tamiya hex simply isn't easy to find, hence why I have HB hexes on my Tamiya.

[PaulRotheram]

I have just checked and the rears will work. I dont have any fronts at the moment though!:rolleyes:

bring some wheels to formby on sunday, i'll be there.. racing the B4 but i'll have the D4 there on show.

[Jez]

u out there trioxer?lazer zx5 sp are on their way as we speak.will call u asap hopefully tomorrow,if not mon/tues.ok.u can call at house to pick car up and have first sort through other stuff.;)

[TRIOXER]

cheers jez,very happy now cant wait to get new car,will be over to collect as soon as i hear from you
cheers chris.

[RogerM]

My car will arrive mid week too .... can't wait!!!

[RogerM]

Finally got the car ....... good old parcel farce!!!!!!

Was a little disapointed really with the conversion kit, or rather the information surrounding it!

For those people thinking of just getting the LAW35 conversion for an existing car then please be aware that you will NOT be able to build a full ZX5-SP chassis from a standard kit and the LAW35 ... the differences as far as I can tell are .....

no allen screw kit (we all knew that though)
No ally front arm mount (LAW31)
No shock tripple cap parts (they do provide new top cap nuts though ... no idea why!) let alone the loverly new bodies

Also they don't include the RB5 shock shafts (42mm front, 50mm rear) which is necessary to make the most of the new suspension arms.

No single piece motor mount / shaft support

It is also interesting trying to follow the build from 2 manuals (although if your converting a car that won't matter as you've already done the standard ZX5 build). You need to do this as there are many subtle differences throughout the build between the manuals.

What I am most defiantely not disapointed with is the finished chassis!!!

I am a bit of an geek at heart and can't build a car without measuring everything and when I have a built car I have to work through all the link position and shock position options to get a feel for the magnitude of the effect each will have. Obviously this was done with my RB5 shocks on the car to get the shock lengths right

One word springs to mind with the ZX5-SP ... balance. By that I mean that anything you can do to one end you can also achieve by doing something to the back end of the car so you should be able to build it as a front endy monster or a steer-from-the-rear. The proof will be on the track of course!

Anybody considering this conversion please stop ... just go and order it (along with the shock shafts of course W5193-01 (rr) and W5184-04 (fr) )!!!!!!!

[Welshy40]

Ok I have a question for the Lazer ZX-5 SP drivers. The front wheels look stunning as a flat plate (just like the prototypes I used on my B2 way back in the past) and was wondering if they still fit the same large hex fittings on the UJs, so if I buy a pair of fronts they should fit a ZXR or the original ZX-5? Also are the rear wheels identical or do they look pretty much the same as the original ZXR wheels that have been sold on the ZX-5 buggies since the original car was released.

[johnnyboy]

From the Lazer ZX5 to the Lazer SP

Rear Wheels are the same.
Fronts use the regular Kyosho hex
SP Fronts have a different offset than the regular ZX-5 (if you put the old wheels on the SP it will be waaaay too wide)

[Welshy40]

Thanks - so the wheels have a narrower offset so I will need a wider hex nut hub to use.

[RogerM]

Thanks - so the wheels have a narrower offset so I will need a wider hex nut hub to use.

The change in offset is such that the size of the hex would probalby mean that you would not have any thread left for the nut!!!

Measuring the difference in offset it is 5.3mm at the mounting face (the part that would sit against the hex).

Now something that is interesting is that the new front wheel is almost identical (they have less than 0.1mm difference in offset!!) to the "Losi style" front all the other cars use! I am going to machine up a set of drive hexes to the standard size for the Losi wheels as it will give me an extra option should I get stuck for wheels trackside.

[Northy]

Kyosho copying Losi :o:o:o I thought everyone copied the old Lazer :p:p:p

G

[RogerM]

LOL ..... It's worked well since the late 80s ..... even Kyosho can't hold back the winds of change! LOL

Seriously though G' .... this new car looks very promising in it's geometry ... can't wait to get it running!

[Northy]

Does it have BJ4 geometry like most things these days? :(

I'm sure if Gill has anything to do with it it will be a very good car indeed.

G

[RogerM]

Northy ...... no mate ..... no BJ4 influences (apart from the front end which is actually just a Losi original anyway as you well know) which is the main reason for going for the car in the first place! Well that and how utterly brilliant the RB5 is, could have been designed for how I drive the RB5 .... perfect is a very strong word but it is so nearly justified on that car!!

I must admit that the Gill Losi Jr connection is actually a concern to me with picking up the Kyosho brand as I haven't got on well with any Losi vehical since the XX-CR, it just seems his designs don't suit my driving style at all well. On the other hand Kyosho have always prided themselves on having a neutral handling car which can be tuned towards either end of the handling spectrum ..... that is part of the reason why the Inferno series has been the main stay of 1/8th rallycross for well over a decade!!

[BradR]

no mate ..... no BJ4 influences (apart from the front end which is actually just a Losi original anyway as you well know) which is the main reason for going for the car in the first place!No BJ4 influences? Are we looking at the same car? :eh?:

The BJ4 uses Losi knuckles, so obviously that part of the front end is the same. But measure the vertical height and offset of the caster blocks, and you should be able to figure out which car "influenced" the SP's new front end. ;)

[Welshy40]

Northy ...... no mate ..... no BJ4 influences (apart from the front end which is actually just a Losi original anyway as you well know) which is the main reason for going for the car in the first place! Well that and how utterly brilliant the RB5 is, could have been designed for how I drive the RB5 .... perfect is a very strong word but it is so nearly justified on that car!!

I must admit that the Gill Losi Jr connection is actually a concern to me with picking up the Kyosho brand as I haven't got on well with any Losi vehical since the XX-CR, it just seems his designs don't suit my driving style at all well. On the other hand Kyosho have always prided themselves on having a neutral handling car which can be tuned towards either end of the handling spectrum ..... that is part of the reason why the Inferno series has been the main stay of 1/8th rallycross for well over a decade!!

The wheels on the picture Brad just left are the same front and rear, so when will we be able to get hold of the complete set rather than just the front end new wheels?

[Welshy40]

The change in offset is such that the size of the hex would probalby mean that you would not have any thread left for the nut!!!

Measuring the difference in offset it is 5.3mm at the mounting face (the part that would sit against the hex).

Now something that is interesting is that the new front wheel is almost identical (they have less than 0.1mm difference in offset!!) to the "Losi style" front all the other cars use! I am going to machine up a set of drive hexes to the standard size for the Losi wheels as it will give me an extra option should I get stuck for wheels trackside.

Im going to make these fit my ZXS so I am guessing that they should fit and if not a little bit of designing and job done.

[bjcaldwe]

This is my zx5 with the kmc chassis with the SP conversion. I started with a b44 aluminum front hex, but needed to make the id bigger and split it. So to prove the concept I dremeled down a stock front hex to fit a losi front dish rim. Here are pics with a jconcpets b44 front,and an old xx4 5star rim. I think if you got the HB front hex for the losi rims it may work with minimal work since its made for a metrix sized axle. I will post more pics when I get my new body done and my matching rear jc rims get here. I already have the proline rear axles on the back. Sorry about all the camber on the RR.

[RogerM]

The front end is quite Losi influencd ... not BJ4 which just copied losi.. LOL

If you then work out the arcs the axle passes through with the SP and BJ4 you'll see they are quite different!

[BradR]

The front end is quite Losi influencd ... not BJ4 which just copied losi.. LOLYou claim that both the SP and BJ4 front ends came from Losi, but the SP was "influenced" and the BJ4 "copied". That's an interesting choice of words.

I never said the BJ4 front end was not similiar to the Losi front end. I even pointed out that the BJ4 uses Losi knuckles. The point I was making is that when you look at the differences between the two, the SP is closer to the BJ4 than the Losi. So, which car was really the "influence" for the SP?

If you still can't decide, just look beyond the front end of the Worlds SP. For example: graphite chassis and top deck, mid-motor saddle-pack layout, rear shocks moved to the front of the arms, etc. All of the changes from the standard ZX-5 to the Worlds SP made the car more like the BJ4WE.

[RogerM]

LOL ... you misunderstand me mate .... all I was trying to say is that the arrangement for the front end on all off roaders seems to be a straight copy of Losi's original design ... mainly because it's a really good solution for getting the steering pivot point in side the wheel and the bearings weight outside that point!

As for the "worlds" SP such as the one in your pic that is not what we are discussing here, we are discusssing the ZX5-SP release which is new suspension pieces for the standard chassis.

I persoanlly will never run the "worlds" configuration as the whole reason for ditching my BJ4WE and going to the Lazer was that it is the car furthest removed from the BJ4WE chassis layout I can get. IMHO the BJ4WE and all it's clones are not ideally suited to the sort of surfacs and tracks we race on in the UK. It may be absolutely dialed on the clay / dirt surfaces in the rest of the world but it doesn't work that well in the UK and certainly doesn't suit my driving style!!

You have to remember that on our national circuit there are NO dirt / clay tracks at all ... not even three corners in combination on dirt! We also keep our wheels on the ground much more than in the USA for example, most circuits only having one or two jump features and those are not normally blessed with proper landing ramps.
Those two points take away any advantage that the BJ4WE style cars may have and the high traction, high sidebite surfaces cause the rear suspension geometry of the BJ4 and clones to colapse on cornering .... not the quickest way around the track!

Now some people have got those cars working nicely, I have to admit that but they still suffer the rear end collapse to some extent which I personally don't like at all.


At the risk of being rude, which I don't mean to be, can we get back on topic to discussing the released version of the Lazer ZX5-SP .... the alternative to the BJ4WE style layout!

[Scouser]

I have read that some people are adding weight to the motor side of their ZX-5s to equal out the distribution a little better. Personally I have never done this and have never felt the need. I was wondering what the difference in weight side to side would be when running Li-Po batteries. I know Li-Pos are supposed to be lighter and thought it might balance the car better. Anyone running Li-po in their ZX-5?
The reason I mention it is because the next evolution of the ZX-5 appears to be a saddle pack layout. However if the Li-Po batteries balance out the chassis in the current 'touring car' style arrangement, it would mean that the saddle pack arrangement is actually a step in the wrong direction, as the next advance in batteries is undoubtedly Li-Po power.

[super__dan]

IMHO the BJ4WE and all it's clones are not ideally suited to the sort of surfacs and tracks we race on in the UK. It may be absolutely dialed on the clay / dirt surfaces in the rest of the world but it doesn't work that well in the UK and certainly doesn't suit my driving style!!


Rog, if you think any lazer of any sort will finish higher overall than the highest BJ4 WE or clone(s) at this years nationals you're deluded. It's one claim too far for me. I've driven Rich Lowe's BJ4 WE on all kinds of surfaces and it's been really very good indeed. I can't imagine Pidge's B44 looking too shabby this year or Trumans D4.

You must just admit to having the most unique requirements for car handling, something the rest of us would regard as a pig to drive most likely ;) I just think you've made one claim to far above and couldn't let it lie.

(edit, of course the best handling car of all time EVER is the X5, though I assume that went without saying ;) )

[RogerM]

Dan ..... I did say some people have got their BJ4WE clones to go very well indeed!

That said I have also spoken to several drivers that have the same view as I do about the rear end collapsing and what is causing it! At least one of those is an F1 (I think maybe 2 actually) and several F2s. It's just not going to suit some people, and yes I am one of those people!

I like a very flowing car with loads of steering (happy to drive part stick) but the back must follow the front and I'm not a "handbrake" user if I can avoid it. That might be unusual, I'm not sure!

I'd like to try your X5 (or anybodys) at some point .. just for the sake of comparison.

It's odd how things have seemed to change with the cars as when I was running the Pred I ran very similar set-ups to most other drivers. Same can be said of the Yokomo BC-sp, B3, XX, XX-CR but with the XX4, XXX and B4, BJ4WE I can't get them to work for me at all.....

Anyway mate ... I am sure that I'd finish higher with the ZX5-sp than any of the BJ4-u-likes so I'm going to give it a try. You might be right about the BJ4WE/ D4 / B44s finishing higher but then again the guys drivign them would be there or there abouts with most cars .... the top guys are the top guys after all.

[Richard Lowe]

Roger, get yourself to Worksop this Sunday and have a go with my BJ4, I guarantee you will be blown away ;)

Based on my expereince in Florida our tracks arn't actually any higher grip than a well prepared clay track. When the groove started to develop there was more grip than I've ever experienced, certainly enough to get the BJ's front wheels up on hard acceleration. Whats more the locals said the track was only giving '80%' of the grip it could :o

You just needed to copy the setup I've posted 100% - including the front one-way diff.

If you really throw the car around that much that the rear is folding under with my setup on you want to get yourself an elastic band car (XX4 :p )

[RogerM]

Rich thanks for the offer mate, much appreciated!!! I have however tried your set-up exactly as writen, one-way diff and pistons the whole 9 yards. I still didn't get on with it .... to the point I was actually lapping quicker with my RB5 at Newbury than the BJ4WE ... but this is not the thread for discussing that.

[Caryphotography]

I've got mine built and had a few battery packs run through it. I ended up putting the Novak GTB esc, Orion Velocity 5.5 brushless, and Orion 3600 race LiPo 25c pack in it. The power is ballistic. At the moment I'm just using the stock setup, anyone have any setup suggestions?

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f44/logicbike/Kyosho_LazerSP_Action_01_sml.jpg

[Gayo]

Great pic !

[zaskar]

Hi everybody from Spain and please, sorry for my english:confused:,
I´ve ran all this year whith a zx5 and i´m happy whith it, and this is the question, is the new SP a great improvement with regard to normal zx5?
Generally, Spanish racetrack are bumpy and low truction, what about thouse features?
Thanks

[RogerM]

The ZX5-SP is a much smoother car to drive, loads of steering but never feeling twitchy or nerveous.
Traction is possibly a little more than anything else out there at the moment (driven Yok BX, B44, BJ4WE, XX4, Pred, Durga and 501X so fairly comprehensive list to compare against!)

The most important thing is the balance of the car. It will reward you with very fast times if driven smoothly but will let you "go to battle" should you need to throw it around.

A friend of mine is an F1 driver and has run several of the different top cars over the last few years and his comment to me after giving me the transmitter back was "that would make a great qualifying car", what he means is it was easy to push hard with and didn't punish you if you made a small error.

Get the conversion / new car, I can assure you you'll not regret it!!!!

[RogerM]

Cary ...... that is now my backdrop .... great picture!!!

From what I can gather the kit set-up is meant to be a really good base to work from on a dirt track, most people not changing it much. There is a lot of discussion on the car on RcTech.net ...... hopefully more soon here as the car gains popularity. Most of the guys in the USA are running the kit set up with just an oil or spring tweek and maybe a washer or 2 under a ball stud.

The tracks we have in the UK are very different but if your interested my base astro set-up was derived on a VERY greasy mixed surface track. All I have changed recently is .....

up 1 spring grade all round to make the car more direct
up 5wt in rear oil for the same reason.

I intend to try the original ZX5 king-pin ballstud next time out as I'd like just a little bit more from the front end to turn it from a "safe qualifier" to a pointy "finals" car. I could increase the length of the link at the inboard front as there is one more hole acailable to use but I'm not sure that will give me exactly what I am looking for at all points through the corner!

If you let me know what the car is doing and what you'd prefer it to do then I will do my best to help with suggestions.

[dbizzle5]

Roger,

Just to confirm, I am about to buy a 4wd and its either going to be a B44 or a lazer. A couple of things Im concerned about with the lazer are, firstly, as Im buying the sp in this country, will it be the full sp kit or the zx5 and the conversion? If so, which parts are missing? also, someone I know who has just bought one has trouble fitting his speedo in and has had to cut out part of the bodyshell to make it fit. I would be running it with a nosram tc spec brushless. Are there issues of fitting this speedo in the car? These have probably been covered before but would just like a black and white answer! Thanks a lot

[gps3300]

Another ZX-5 question: I have the original crap handling, leaking shock car that came out 2 years ago. Please can someone simply list the part numbers and descriptions of all the bits I need to update it to the latest spec? Where's the best place in the Uk to buy bits?

[jim76]

Another ZX-5 question: I have the original crap handling, leaking shock car that came out 2 years ago. Please can someone simply list the part numbers and descriptions of all the bits I need to update it to the latest spec? Where's the best place in the Uk to buy bits?

you will need the LAW 35 to convert the front and rear ends to the new spec. there isn't an upgrade kit for the shocks on their own unfortunately, but the tripple cap shock parts come in the law34 rear end kit (bit of a pricey upgrade at £60+ just for the shock caps!)

you will also need new front wheels as the old ones will no longer work - too wide.

if you do plan to buy the LAW34 and LAW35 kits together with wheels, then it may be better value for you to buy a new kit altogether. The sale of your old kit should make up the shortfall.

hope that helped.
with regards shops, DMS racing is usually pretty competitive for price, or microtech who have a great website.

[RogerM]

Roger,

Just to confirm, I am about to buy a 4wd and its either going to be a B44 or a lazer. A couple of things Im concerned about with the lazer are, firstly, as Im buying the sp in this country, will it be the full sp kit or the zx5 and the conversion? If so, which parts are missing? also, someone I know who has just bought one has trouble fitting his speedo in and has had to cut out part of the bodyshell to make it fit. I would be running it with a nosram tc spec brushless. Are there issues of fitting this speedo in the car? These have probably been covered before but would just like a black and white answer! Thanks a lot

dbizzle5 ....

At the moment the SP kit is supplied as the original car and the LAW35 upgrade pack along with a Balkan body and wing.

To build the car to the SP geometry you should really buy 42mm front shock shafts (W5184-04) and ideally 50mm rear shock shafts (W5193-01) although as the ZX5 kit shafts are 54mm you can always get to the same place via internal droop limiters.

That will get you a car that runs as an SP.

There is a thread on RcTech.net (search for RogerM posts in Electric offroad and you'll find it) which details the exact differences between a "kit SP" and a converted car to "SP" ..... I will try to copy it over to here later for you.

Basically the missings are;

one-piece motor mount (not a performance issue really)

SP kit includes the LAW31 ali front arm brace

the velvet coated shock bodies (again no difference on the track)

SP kit uses the RB5 shock cartridges which are an improvement

shock shafts as mentioned

hex screws (DC Racing do a comprehensive screw kit for about £10)

you will have all the transmission options, the SP kit is direct drive 4wd only .. no one-ways.





Body wise the Balkan body (SP shell) is big enough to fit any brushless speedo under (as is the Bullet) so no worries there. My car has LRP TC fitted so don't worry.

Anything else please ask!!!!!!!

[RogerM]

Another ZX-5 question: I have the original crap handling, leaking shock car that came out 2 years ago. Please can someone simply list the part numbers and descriptions of all the bits I need to update it to the latest spec? Where's the best place in the Uk to buy bits?

Jim76 is almost correct but not quite .....

To get the car running as a full SP would be expensive but some of it is just for show....

I will assume that you have the LAW31 ali front arm brace and decnt screws already ..... if not get those!!!

To do the rest of the conversion you need an LAW35 SP upgrade pack.

If you've not got the tripple cap shock cartridges then you can get W5184 which is the tripple cap rebuild kit for the RB5 / SP. That contains the cartridges and ALL hardware including 42 / 50mm shock shafts!!!! That will be about £30 - £35.


I still have the original ZX5 shocks on my car at present and they don't leak ..... but I took my time building them with grease (packed) and careful deburring of the plastics.

As for the best place in the UK to buy from that will be Dom @ DC Racing. As I am now fully Kyosho he will no doubt be ordering from them on a very regular basis to keep me going. I am sure you won't beat him on price either and definately not on quality of service!!!!


As for the comparison with the B44 price wise by the time you factor in a one-way of some description for the B44 it will be a little more expensive than if you bought the current ZX5-SP, DC screw kit and W5184 shock upgrade.

For my driving style the ZX5-SP is a vastly better car than the BJ4WE / B44 / D4 style cars so I'd obviously suggest you go in that direction. Everybody who has driven my ZX5-SP has commented on how nice it is to drive.

Compared to the original car it is super safe, one person described it as like it drove itself around the track .... another compared it to a XX4 on weed ... LOL I've yet to hear anybody say anything negative AFTER driving the ZX5-SP.:D

[jim76]

Roger
just to clarify because i'm getting myself confused!
If you buy the new "SP" kit, does it have the triple cap RB5 shocks in it?

maybe you can draw up a table to compare the two kits to clarify? something like;

'' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' SP kit ' ' ' ' ' original + law35
hex screws ' ' ' ' ' Y ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' 'N
one way ' ' ' ' ' ' 'N ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' 'Y
alloy front brace Y ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' 'N

etc
etc
edit - bugger, didn't come out very clear, they took all my spaces out!

sorry to be a pain! i just think it will make it 100% clear for everyone. maybe it could be a seperate sticky thread in the kyosho section.
cheers


edit2 - just looked at microtechs site and they list the SP, and say it has triple cap shocks and full one-way options? How many versions are out there?!!!!!!! arrrrggggggghhhh!!!!

[RogerM]

Jim .... I will try to do that tonight!

It seems MicroTech have done what a few others have and copied the text directly off the Kyosho.com site which is for the SP car kit that the rest of the world are getting!!!!

The importat part of that, but you do have to read it VERY carefully not to misunderstand it is......

* Choice of three front axle configurations with one-way, ball differential or spool (rigid). One-way is sold separately.

If you ring Microtech they will tell you that it is the original car with the LAW35 and SP body and wing added, of that I am sure!!!

In the UK (and the rest of Europe that is served by FDL as an importer) is not getting the full "SP kit" until their stocks of the original ZX5 are exhausted or at least much lower.

At first that seems we are short changed but think of it this way .... you actually get to try both cars if you want, can mix and match, if your not running brushless you can run the much nicer looking original shell, you have a spare wing ....blah ... blah ... blah. In the long run I actually think we are winning considering that the front one-way will cost you 2 x £9 + 2 x £6 + 1 x £23 {all prices approx} so in total £53 it is worth getting the car the way FDL are distributing it.

I stronglt advise anybody selling a ZX5 to get an SP later in the year to keep the one-way parts back!!!


And anyway Jim ..... why are you looking at Microtech's site .... surely you'll be ordering from DC Racing anyway ;)

[jim76]

oops! that will teach me to read the full sentence!

the one way options in the original kit are worth it, but then if you have to buy the shock shafts, velvet bodies, hex screws, alloy brace etc it probably won't work out much different. But you will obviously have the spare shell.

what a nightmare. This unfortunately is why Kyosho are not as popular as they should be over here. The car is great, and Kyosho do have constant inovation of parts, they just implement things is such a confusing way!

[RogerM]

You don't NEED the velvet bodies, they are more bling than anything (ok the rears have more thread on so using Losi springs will be easier but ...)

You only really need the front shafts, in fact you can get the same overall shock lengths with the kit shafts but I wasn't happy having the shock bottoms screwed on such a small amount.

In fairness to FDL and Kyosho if the original ZX5 had been as popular in this country (and northern Europe) as it has been in most of the world then there wouldn't be so many of the original kits left in stock.

Unfotunately the original car seems to have got a bad name and that has put people off buying it, which put the shops off stocking it and thus .... loads left in stock at the importers.
It wouldn't make sense for them to distribute the updated car any other way at present.

My car cost me less than a B44 would have, lots less when you consider I'd not have built it without some form of one-way (prefer centre one-ways .. not sure if there even is one). I think people are still getting a good deal!!!

[RogerM]

By the way Jim .... can you please edit the LAW34 to read LAW35 (which is the SP conversion pack) before somebody gets confused and orders the wrong parts .... cheers