New rules here . . . at last

[Gazza]

Hi Guys Can some one make this a sticky Thanks

HERE AT LAST
(FOR THE PROPOSED BRCA SECTION)

2011 MARDAVE CIRCUIT CAR CONSTRUCTION RULES

CHASSIS AND COMPONENTS

GENERAL CONSTRUCTION RULES

Cars to be Mardave V12 or Caterham 7 based chassis and suspension. The car chassis plate may be drilled / cut-out to improve weight distribution / cooling, providing no sharp edges are left. No composite chassis allowed
Ball races allowed on both front and rear axles.
Either 32 or 48 dp pinion and spur gear may be used.
Mardave Differentials will be allowed.
Car suspension and wheel carriers shall remain as kit although any commercially available springs may be used.
The use of countersunk holes and screws on the underside of the chassis is recommended but not mandatory.
Body mounts may be changed or altered.
Wiper board mounting plate may be changed, altered or removed.
The motor may be fitted to either side of the pod, either directly or via a spacer/plate(to prevent heat transfer and softening of the blocks, or for weight distribution) providing that there are no alterations to the mounting blocks.(Thinning of pod to give clearance to motor wires, drilling of a hole for access to pinion grub screw and/or addition of tie bar to prevent distortion are permissible)
No external bumpers are permitted, although a firm foam internal bumper is mandatory on the front.(10mm minimum cross section)
Any make of servo, servo saver or track rod ends may be used on the cars steering system.

SUPERDAVE

As above but composite chassis allowed. Dimensions not to exceed those of the standard chassis and must be one piece, i.e. no “T” bar or link style. Wheelbase and track as V12 kit.

BODYSHELL

Any commercially available body shell manufactured specifically for the Mardave V12 in either ABS or Lexan may be used. Shells from manufacturers other than Mardave and Kamtec must be submitted to the committee for approval. Realistic representations of full size racing cars positively encouraged.

NOTE, NO 1/12 WEDGES. The shell must remain securely fixed to the car throughout the race. Windows may be cut out on ABS shells.
No supplementary aerofoils or fins shall be fitted to the body with the exception of a realistic size rear wing if desirable.
This wing must be non metallic, commercially available and securely fixed.
The body shell can be decorated to suit the individuals taste providing all coatings are of a permanent nature
The rear of the body shell should remain intact, i.e. not cut-out above the lower bumper line.

ELECTRICS
STANDARD BRUSHED

Any type, make and capacity of speed controller may be used providing it includes reverse.(MAX UK rrp £69.99)
Cars to use four cells only, cells to be sub-C sized cells only, with a nominal voltage of 1.2 volts per cell, cells to be NiCad and Nimh’s only. Battery mountings may be changed from the original.
Brushed Motors will be the Mardave G2 unit; At a National or GP, these motors will be issued to competitors at the time of booking in.(INCLUDED IN ENTRY FEE) Additional ‘control’ motors will be available during the meeting. No other motors are allowed.
Under no circumstances are fan motors, re-buildable motors, fitting of external bearings or skimming of motor commutators allowed.
Heatsinks with cooling fans are allowed.

STOCK BRUSHLESS 13.5

Only forward / reverse Brushless ESC’s with NO TURBO or BOOST or on the fly timing advance function from the following list may be used:-

Fusion: - Exceed (Sport, Race, Pro)

Castle Creations: - MambaMaxPro.

LRP:- A.I BrushlessReverse, Ai Brushless Pro Reverse, SPX Brushless Reverse, - SPX Brushless Bullet Reverse.

Nosram: - Evil Reverse, Evil Power Reverse, Matrix Brushless Reverse, Matrix Power Brushless Reverse

Novak: - GTB (GTB 4 Cell, GTB, GTB Spectrum) GTB2, Havoc 1 Cell, Havoc Sport.

Tekin:- R1(sensor less)

Other suitable ESC’s may be added from time to time

Anyone wishing to use an esc not on the above list should submit said esc to the committee for checking and inclusion into the rules
NOTE: - Please make your own checks on compatibility with regards to reverse function and 1s lipo use.
Brushless motors to have a minimum of 13.5 turns and a maximum UK rrp of £75.00
Cars to use 1s Lipo 3.7 volt batteries. In the short term, 4cell Nims 4.8 volt may be used but with a 150g weight penalty. 3cell Nims 3.6 volt may also be used without penalty. Note:- weight difference between 1s lipo and 4 cell Nimh is approx. 150g
Plastic whip aerials are allowed
Battery mountings may be changed from original.
Fitting of additional bearings to support the motor shaft are allowed.


SUPERDAVE

Any forward / reverse or forward only Brushless ESC with NO TURBO or BOOST or on the fly timing advance function may be used.
Cars with no reverse are used at drivers own risk and must have a fluorescent sticker on the roof
The Mardave G2BL system may be used.
NOTE: - Please make your own checks on compatibility with regards to reverse function and 1s lipo use.
Brushless motors other than the one in the Mardave G2BL system to be 10.5 turn minimum. Maximum UK rrp of £75.00
4 Cell nimh may be used until the end of 2011 or until the end of a series if it continues into 2012.
Plastic whip aerials are allowed.
Battery mountings may be changed from original.
Fitting of additional bearings to support the motor shaft are allowed.
Composite chassis allowed. Dimensions not to exceed those of the standard chassis and must be one piece, i.e. no “T” bar or link style. Wheelbase and track as V12 kit.

TYRES

The tyres may be changed from the original kit tires
Tires to be Min 20mm Max 26mm width and have a Max 60mm diameter. No minimum diameter for tires, but the tire must cover the wheel. Any foam tire make or compound allowed.
GENERAL SETUP

Any commercially available tyre additive may be used providing it is non toxic, odourless and any excess is removed from the surface of the tyres and tyres to be ‘Touch Dry’ prior to the start of the race.
Minimum car ride height will be no lower than 3mm, 1mm at the spur gear.
Minimum car weight is 1kg (1000g). Brushless with 4 cells Nimh is 1150g.
Commercially available comm. drops may be applied to the motor commutator PLEASE NOTE

Any car not conforming to the above rules will still be allowed to race but will NOT gain any championship points.
ANY manufactures new parts or bodyshells must be readily available to everyone at least 28 days prior to a national or GP race meeting for inclusion.

[stevo16v]

this will kill the mardaves,everybody at different speeds and nothin about lipo abuse,overcharging and heating them up to go faster ,tekin pro r1 is the best speedo there 120 plus 75 for a motor

[Gazza]

How can G2 and 4 cell kill the mardave ? :eh?:

LiPo abuse is defo a no no same as all BRCA meetings charge at 1c :thumbsup: why would you post that ? :thumbdown:

watch this video of Nick and me

Nick is G2 4 cell and me in 13.5 brushless 1s LiPo

Tekin is the best speedo I agree . . . . . IN A TOURING CAR

Nick is car 1 i'm car 2


http://www.youtube.com/v/fI8EEjOLOBI (http://www.youtube.com/v/fI8EEjOLOBI)

[madonrc]

WHY OH WHY

Mardave is the simplest and cheeps form of racing
Why change it ????

All your doing is trying to re invent the wheel
the only difference between 13.5 and superdave is the motor basically as everyone will probually run the esc listed in the 13.5 class. superdave is what it says SUPER, use what you want (esc / Motor)


These are the rules on the mardave site
http://mardaveonline.co.uk/2010Circuit/ProposedV12NationalSeriesBRCARules.pdf

[stevo16v]

4 cells and g2 is good but put it against a tekin r1 with 40 degrees advance and a short stack 13.5 motor and it wont be close,so spend £195 and win

[Chequered Flag Racing]

Nick is car 1 i'm car 2
http://www.youtube.com/v/fI8EEjOLOBI (http://www.youtube.com/v/fI8EEjOLOBI)

want's me to download the link above :confused:

so if it's doing it for others here's a working link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI8EEjOLOBI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI8EEjOLOBI)

[Gazza]

WHY OH WHY

Mardave is the simplest and cheeps form of racing
Why change it ????

We have not changed it its still a Mardave with G2 and 4 cell but open your eyes there is a lot of clubs running 13.5 and LiPo they want it and we have gave it to them there is more people out there that just your self

All your doing is trying to re invent the wheel

But this time we have a rubber tyre on a wooden wheel :thumbsup:

the only difference between 13.5 and superdave is the motor basically as everyone will probually run the esc listed in the 13.5 class. superdave is what it says SUPER, use what you want (esc / Motor)

I Agree but turn up and vote on it in October . . I hope you vote on it as I think its a good idea as well


These are the rules on the mardave site
http://mardaveonline.co.uk/2010Circuit/ProposedV12NationalSeriesBRCARules.pdf

Read the LINK it says Proposed :thumbsup:

Remember these are only set till october so please turn up and vote on rules at the AGM

[Gazza]

4 cells and g2 is good but put it against a tekin
r1 with 40 degrees advance and a short stack 13.5 motor and it wont be close,so spend £195 and win


Steve. . .

Tekin R1 is a STOCK ESC IT HAS NO BOOST OR TIMIMG and is a sensorless ESC

From Randy Pike as I asked him. . . . http://forum.teamtekin.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2975

"The R1 cannot run boost or turbo since it's a sensorless controller."

Hope that helps you all before buying one :thumbsup:

One final Note:- I think the Guys did a good job try it and see then if you dont like it I hope to See as many of you at the BRCA AGM in October to put your views across and vote but untill Now thats it Guys

[stevo16v]

hes wrong ive got one,no boost or turbo but up to 40 degrees boost,dont get me wrong ,the proposals are good for people who are racing at the moment but u have to look at the bigger picture,mardaves have been around for over 20 years because there cheap.they are the basis of most clubs because of this.all thats going to happen is clubs will run there own rules and not drive the commitee forward.what about a voltage resistor that can be fitted to all cars controling the max voltage at the motor.it would bring all the classes together and stop the expensive motor and speedo,surly mtronics or mardave could sort something

[Gazza]

See they tried to cover all the ESC and some one has it wrong ?

I think maybe in that case then the rule of no timing or boost has put a stop to the R1

Then on the other hand it says you can use it

Hmmm I think in that case the R1 will be knocked off Ill send them an e-mail

Thanks Steve thats the spirit :thumbsup:

You still missing the point tho Steve look at the video I posted above its all level and good fun as it is with the speedo's listed ( possable the R1 ) I urge all to watch the video its close racing

Gazza

[teamorsum96]

WHY OH WHY

Mardave is the simplest and cheeps form of racing
Why change it ????

All your doing is trying to re invent the wheel
the only difference between 13.5 and superdave is the motor basically as everyone will probually run the esc listed in the 13.5 class. superdave is what it says SUPER, use what you want (esc / Motor)


These are the rules on the mardave site
http://mardaveonline.co.uk/2010Circuit/ProposedV12NationalSeriesBRCARules.pdf

agreed fella:thumbsup:

[Gazza]

LOL OK no one likes a change . . .

So lets all go back to mud huts and horse and cart and no internet

We are humans we move onwards and forwards unless your IQ cant grasp that :thumbsup:

[teamorsum96]

LOL OK no one likes a change . . .

So lets all go back to mud huts and horse and cart and no internet

We are humans we move onwards and forwards unless your IQ cant grasp that :thumbsup:

we dont have a problem with moving forward but end of the day its a bottom end class of racing, its good that both kids and adults can have the fun of racing on a lower budget.
if ur wanting to go for all this modern technology change class because mardave hasnt changed for the last 20 year, cheap and cheerful

[Churk]

hes wrong ive got one,no boost or turbo but up to 40 degrees boost,dont get me wrong ,the proposals are good for people who are racing at the moment but u have to look at the bigger picture,mardaves have been around for over 20 years because there cheap.they are the basis of most clubs because of this.all thats going to happen is clubs will run there own rules and not drive the commitee forward.what about a voltage resistor that can be fitted to all cars controling the max voltage at the motor.it would bring all the classes together and stop the expensive motor and speedo,surly mtronics or mardave could sort something

Hes not sayin they are gettin rid of standard mardave is he?
he just proposing classes.
We are not sayin to people they have to go and spend on expensive speedos etc the stadard mardave class is still there.
The mardave brushed stock with G2 motors and that and the mardave 13.5 class is basically the same classes ardent has been running all winter and have had no problems... they are not run against each other and so there will be no problem with g2 motors not coping against 1s lipo 13.5 brushless mardave. (althought at the last club meet it was a standard g2 mardave that won when number were less)
Plus its only a proposal if people have a problem or need clarification then turn up in october and it sorted then.

[Gazza]

OK bad news for Tekin R1
The R1. . . it Just Has no physical timing advance. . .

So in other words its got no on the fly timing so its ok if you run the full 40 degree then its boged down in the bends but good on the straight same as the Fusion and he says the fusion is possable 10% Better. .

all so the R1 wont take the Hotwire programe

So thats that one cleared up :thumbsup:


As per Churk the G2 and 4 cell is still running and will do so . .

We will never get rid of it unless the people who make Nihm's go and then its all lipo for every one Planes / Boats your cordless drill etc

[Churk]

Yeah thats what im trying to say...
Some people commenting seem to think that all the classes are gonna be raced together which they are not and also that the standard mardave will disappear which we know it wont as its still he biggest class at ardent in mardaves.

In a nut shell wat is proposed is as follows:

Class 1
Standard Mardave
- G2 Motors Only!!!
- Any speedo up to price of £70RRP
- Original mardave Parts
- Original Mardave chassis.
- Any Servo

Class 2
13.5 Stock brushless
- 1s Lipo
- 13.5 Brushless Motor Limit.
- Speedo have to be non turbo etc only one on list or ones passed by the BRCA for this class.
- Any Servo
- Original Mardave Parts.
- Original Mardave Chassis.

Class 3
Superdave
- 1s Lipo
- Any Motor and Speedo.
- Composite Chassis Allowed.


Thats what i gathered from the PROPOSED rules for october.
Just for those that seem to be getting confused.

[stox217]

And so we do not have too many classe's watering down the entree, Class 1 and Class 2 will race together as they are comparable speed, and Class 3 will be on their own.

[Sheepdog]

Ah well, as expected we still have to use a forward / reverse speedo, after all the speeches, all the statements it still comes down to the same shit! well thanks for that! WTF do ya want with reverse! wasnt going to be mandatory! dont need one in superdave tho, but i want to run with my mates as i have been in 13.5 brushless, no turbo, no timing advance. cheap basic speedo (Speedo speed passions CIRTIX stock speedo £54)
Mardave for sale if these rules come into action, why should i have to pay out again!

RIP MARDAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dirtyghost]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but the other guys were right.....

The 13.5 and the G2 will both run in the same class, as now after many months of testing and trial and error we have found that with the right kit they are on par with each other and if you take a look at the vid that Gazza made at Hinckley you will see that this is the case.
The G2 will be around for a long time yet but we thought it was time that the mardave was brought into the 20th century and moved forward with the times with lipo's and brushless motors.
It seems that he who can afford the best cells "Nimh" is more often than not at the front of the pack, and using a G2 for no more than a months racing isn't uncommon now so it just makes sense to homogenise the 2 together, no more fading motors because of heat build up and having to equalize cells every week just to be on the pace.
I could add more reasons like the cost of a decent matched pack of Nimh's and the £8 for a motor once a month ect,ect, it just made sense to combine the 2 classes, they are on par with each other and in the long run cheaper.

Also remember these are PROPOSED RULES we want to here what you guys think and if you feel strongly about it join us at the AGM in October.

We are going to be running these rules in the 5 round championships organised by RCCIRCUITCARS to be held at ARDENT please do come and join us it's going to be a great event and a possible eye opener..... :thumbsup: :woot:

Marti.

[Churk]

Ah well, as expected we still have to use a forward / reverse speedo, after all the speeches, all the statements it still comes down to the same shit! well thanks for that! WTF do ya want with reverse! wasnt going to be mandatory! dont need one in superdave tho, but i want to run with my mates as i have been in 13.5 brushless, no turbo, no timing advance. cheap basic speedo (Speedo speed passions CIRTIX stock speedo £54)
Mardave for sale if these rules come into action, why should i have to pay out again!

RIP MARDAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do agree in Sheepdogs case, surely it should be the driver choice whether your mardave has reverse or not. At the end of the day if u crash its your fault and what are marshalls for? if you think you are good enough to run without reverse then you should be able to.

[truggy lover]

interesting the results of the poll i set up to see if when you started you started with new or second hand kit
http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66450
61% second hand
39% new

no as this is aimed at helping new peeps into the sport i think the figures tell a tale , i my self even though i have been racing for 10 years still buy kit second hand one for the price and two to see if its any good before i committ

i think most peeps do draw your own conclusions from the results

[Churk]

Has anybody sat and worked out how much it costs to keep replacing the G2 motor throughout a year?
Most the lads i speak to easily spent more than the cost of a brushless motor on G2 motors throughout a year, plus there no messing about.
And mainly the amount of tampering and tinkering i was hearing about at the mardave GP last year was quite frankly annoying.
Running brushless doesnt get rid of g2 standard mardave racing it just moves the sport along like in any form of racing ie getting rid of 2 stroke Bikes in moto and supercross. it will happen eventually but this is a way of integrating, and stepping forward with the sport just like touring cars and such into the inevitable future.

[mcjjordan]

i went out and bought the mardave brushless system last year as i got fed up with the incosistancy of the brushed motors,
and after some teething issues was pleased with my first brushless purchase
however since it got banned from oval racing its been sat to one side.
now i find out it will be in superdave class against much higher spec cars once again so still wont be competative.
-Doh!
i like the idea of updating to brushless and lipo as am getting fed up with nimh cells as it does seems the best cells is what gives you wins and they are alot of messing around to get the best out of them.

its definetly the future but im waiting this time till the dust has set.

[Churk]

i went out and bought the mardave brushless system last year as i got fed up with the incosistancy of the brushed motors,
and after some teething issues was pleased with my first brushless purchase
however since it got banned from oval racing its been sat to one side.
now i find out it will be in superdave class against much higher spec cars once again so still wont be competative.
-Doh!
i like the idea of updating to brushless and lipo as am getting fed up with nimh cells as it does seems the best cells is what gives you wins and they are alot of messing around to get the best out of them.

its definetly the future but im waiting this time till the dust has set.

Under these rules you will be able to use it in the stock 13.5/stock mardave class as long as you run a 13.5 motor.
Not the superdave class.
I have a GTB and 13.5 brushless setup which i will be using in the stock 13.5/stock class.

[mcjjordan]

Under these rules you will be able to use it in the stock 13.5/stock mardave class as long as you run a 13.5 motor.
Not the superdave class.
I have a GTB and 13.5 brushless setup which i will be using in the stock 13.5/stock class.


so i could just change the motor?

[teamorsum96]

Has anybody sat and worked out how much it costs to keep replacing the G2 motor throughout a year?
Most the lads i speak to easily spent more than the cost of a brushless motor on G2 motors throughout a year, plus there no messing about.
And mainly the amount of tampering and tinkering i was hearing about at the mardave GP last year was quite frankly annoying.
Running brushless doesnt get rid of g2 standard mardave racing it just moves the sport along like in any form of racing ie getting rid of 2 stroke Bikes in moto and supercross. it will happen eventually but this is a way of integrating, and stepping forward with the sport just like touring cars and such into the inevitable future.

i see where your coming from churk,but where is the sense in paying 90quid for a VRX or in my case the 56quid for my club kit,then spending 100 and what ever on motor and esc

[madonrc]

[QUOTE 1=Gazza

but open your eyes there is a lot of clubs running 13.5 and LiPo they want it and we have gave it to them there is more people out there that just your self Quote]

Now that you have thrown your handbag in the corner. Yes my eyes are wide open and i have been reading all the posts about these changes. If you do not like people making comment's which is all i did, then why post things on here



the only difference between 13.5 and superdave is the motor basically as everyone will probually run the esc listed in the 13.5 class. superdave is what it says SUPER, use what you want (esc / Motor). How can super dave be super if you propose which ESc that people can use. Surely Super is any motor and any ESC with 1cell lipo.

I have seen what loads of changes to the rules did to touring cars over the years, dont let it happen to a form of racing which can introduce loads of people to RC racing. Which is MARDAVE. In my view as Churk said it should be as follows

Class 1
Standard Mardave
- G2 Motors Only!!!
- Any speedo up to price of £70RRP
- Original mardave Parts
- Original Mardave chassis.
- Any Servo

Class 2
13.5 Stock brushless
- 1s Lipo
- 13.5 Brushless Motor Limit. But no Price limit
- Speedo have to be non turbo etc only one on list or ones passed by the BRCA for this class.
- Any Servo
- Original Mardave Parts.
- Original Mardave Chassis.

Class 3
Superdave
- 1s Lipo
- Any Motor and Speedo.
- Composite Chassis Allowed.


[Quote Gazza ; Read the LINK it says Proposed . Quote]Oh and i do know that are proposed for the BRCA but i know that these are the rules that you intend to race at ardent


Im glad teamorsom96 agrees

[teamorsum96]

:thumbsup:

[stevo16v]

i want to move into the 21st century with my mardave ,just don't want to be dragged there by my wallet,all we need now to race is curly orange hair red noses and long shoes because we must look like right clowns to the other sections of the brca :woot:

[Gazza]

[QUOTE 1=Gazza

but open your eyes there is a lot of clubs running 13.5 and LiPo they want it and we have gave it to them there is more people out there that just your self Quote]

Now that you have thrown your handbag in the corner.

Not my hand bag. . . It was already here when I arrived :thumbsup:

Yes my eyes are wide open and i have been reading all the posts about these changes.
I said open your eyes as there is clubs already doing so. .
By that I meant have a look and you will see there is a few clubs running 1s AND even 2s Lipo with 6.5 motors now what shall we do when you go to a club in Birmingham who run 2s & 10.5 and another club in Hinckley who run 13.5 & 1s

So what would you do buy 2 lots OR try and make some rules so its the same every where I vote for the latter


If you do not like people making comment's which is all i did, then why post things on here

Coments are great I love um. .
I reply to your questions with my answers. . its you who doesn't like it :confused:

You said and i quote

Mardave is the simplest and cheeps form of racing
Why change it ????


We are not changing it why do you think that ? :confused:
we are letting people who want to run 13.5 and 1s LiPo in a dave run one
But to do this we need some rules to which by now you will agree . . Yes




the only difference between 13.5 and superdave is the motor basically as everyone will probually run the esc listed in the 13.5 class. superdave is what it says SUPER, use what you want (esc / Motor). How can super dave be super if you propose which ESc that people can use. Surely Super is any motor and any ESC with 1cell lipo.

No Idea mate I did not make the rules but as far as Im concerned on that it should be open ESC and 10.5 all I can say is hope you turn up at the agm to put that one up for discussion

I have seen what loads of changes to the rules did to touring cars over the years, dont let it happen to a form of racing which can introduce loads of people to RC racing. Which is MARDAVE. In my view as Churk said it should be as follows

Class 1
Standard Mardave
- G2 Motors Only!!! AND 4 cell
- Any speedo up to price of £70RRP
- Original mardave Parts
- Original Mardave chassis.
- Any Servo

Standard class

Class 2
13.5 Stock brushless
- 1s Lipo
- 13.5 Brushless Motor Limit. But no Price limit explain please ?
- Speedo have to be non turbo etc only one on list or ones passed by the BRCA for this class. there is a list
- Any Servo
- Original Mardave Parts.
- Original Mardave Chassis.

As there is not much differance in both they want to run as one class . . Im easy on this

Class 3
Superdave
- 1s Lipo
- Any Motor and Speedo.
- Composite Chassis Allowed.

Yep totally agree with you on that


[Quote Gazza ; Read the LINK it says Proposed . Quote]Oh and i do know that are proposed for the BRCA
Sound

but i know that these are the rules that you intend to race at ardent

News to me ?


Im glad teamorsom96 agrees

Some good points so we can count on you being at the AGM then :thumbsup:

[Gazza]

i want to move into the 21st century with my mardave ,just don't want to be dragged there by my wallet,

I did a comparison and the Brushless comes out Cheaper :thumbsup:


1. 5 packs of Cells at a cost of £40 a pack ( £200 for 5 packs 4600mAh)
(may 2010)
Thats just your cells now dont forget you will need a few spare motors a
discharge tray etc etc so lets say another £100 so thats a total of £300
I have not included the motor cleaner . . the cotton buds and numerous other things

Now the 13.5 1s set up

2. 1s LiPo £56
(may 2010)
3. 1 smart boost £25
4. Motor combo 13.5 with speed control £95 total for the items 2 / 3 & 4 is £176


all we need now to race is curly orange hair red noses and long shoes because we must look like right clowns to the other sections of the brca :woot:

Actually No Chris H gave us full support and go ahead and said it would need work. . .

I dread to think what happened when touring cars went from brushed to Brushless and cells to LiPo's did you all condem that as well

I hope you all turn up at the AGM to go over the rules in October and put you voice across there and hope fully we should have an even better set of rules :thumbsup:

[teamorsum96]

Actually No Chris H gave us full support and go ahead and said it would need work. . .

I dread to think what happened when touring cars went from brushed to Brushless and cells to LiPo's did you all condem that as well

I hope you all turn up at the AGM to go over the rules in October and put you voice across there and hope fully we should have an even better set of rules :thumbsup:

there is a little problem there gazza, when the touring cars changed over, lets look, talking what 300quid for car then 200quid for esc/motor and lipo. diffrence been you would have to spend more for your gear then ya car in mardaves, it does make sense, i do see where your coming from saying you have to keep changing motors, but if u look after them right you can get 5months out 1 we have proved that at are club, but after all this, mardave is ment to be the cheapest form of racing.
are club tryed the brushless 13.5 class and only took 2-3 meeting and then they faded off.

[Gazza]

Well at least you tried it mate. . .

As long as you can get the NiMh cells which I must admitt should be around for another year but even I'm no 100% on that.

Have you seen the Video I did its good fun and I must admitt less hassle

[teamorsum96]

Well at least you tried it mate. . .

As long as you can get the NiMh cells which I must admitt should be around for another year but even I'm no 100% on that.

Have you seen the Video I did its good fun and I must admitt less hassle

i have only used brushless in my old ftx blaze and yea its less work, but you shouldt change something that works fine as it is, if there doing the 3 classes they should be 3 classes not mixing the 2 into 1. it will just be like another sport we did, autograss, (full size off road oval cars) there used to be diffrent classes from standard minis to unlimted built specials (full size buggys) and in class 7 they used to run v8,v6s,then they let them run twin bike engines an then they just took over the class.no u need 20k for new car and thats surpost to be cheap.
thats where mardave will be in 5years if it keeps on the way it is( not as much as 20k) lol

[truggy lover]

again no one is saying dump your nimh powered mardave

What is being proposed is rules for making the 13.5t burshless class that i and others want to run (thats my choice as it is yours to run nimh) competative against 4 cell G2

and into the future as nimh's go out of production setting rules in place for lipo brushless thats progression for you

the manufactures are looking to the next big thing else we would we all still be sat in front of oval 21" screens and playing on megs drives

now as i see it these rules are not set in stone so in stead of all bleeting offers idea's of what YOU the racers want

at least these guys are trying dont all que up to flame em FFS people really dont like change do they !!!!!

MY 2$

[stevo16v]

we pay £10 delivered for 1/16th micro brushless motors and there balistic,£8 for 40c lipos £18 for a fully programable brushless speedo.the last national was won with the cheap motor and speedo.all people are after is cheap competitive racing not a £75 quid motor rat race.im hanging up my mardave and so is my brother,we'll leave u boys to ur suicide comittee and race micro's and recoils faster and 1/8th of the price,mardave has left the lunatics in charge of the asylum,when you modify the rules in october. you won't be polishing the tird just covering it in glitter

[truggy lover]

ok so when nimh's are no longer available what will you run

and buy all your cheap kit from the likes of china and japan who said you cant just no turbo or boost and i AINT on the committee !!!!


just a racer like you

[truggy lover]

oh and well done for suppoerting your uk based model shops !!!

[stevo16v]

oh and well done for suppoerting your uk based model shops !!!
well done for nobbin off your main supplier /mardave

[truggy lover]

well done for nobbin off your main supplier /mardave


wtf does that mean ???

english please

[teamorsum96]

ok so when nimh's are no longer available what will you run

and buy all your cheap kit from the likes of china and japan who said you cant just no turbo or boost and i AINT on the committee !!!!


just a racer like you

it wouldt be so bad if it was just 1 controlled esc,motor combo, with lipos, then its down to the driver. not the wallet

[truggy lover]

i will be running the novak havoc a losi 13.5 and lipo so will at least 5 others i know

[truggy lover]

the rules are actually limiting what you can spend not pushing it up like touring cars having to spend £200+ on a speedo and as for motors the upper limit is £75 dont mean you have to spend that much i havent i have gone the second hand route

i also have a house and 3 kids to provide for so i am always on a budget

[Sheepdog]

tbh you cant just go for one controlled speedo, supply and demand wouldnt work but having just a few to choose makes it fairer to keep things close.

[TOMO WEF]

How would you choose which one make combo to use?
Mardave doesnt at present make a 13.5 sensored motor or speedo which is what most people want and the huge amounts of testing by people like Gazza has shown to be the best option in terms of the speed and drivability.

I have raced with a speed passion cheapo motor in my f1 and gt at ardent in the winter series and have by no means been slow or out paced I have recorded the fastest lap of the meetings on afew occasions even and won a couple of rounds.
The brushless kit without the boost/turbo options are all very evenly matched and so you could spend as much or as little as you wish and be just as fast. You may already have some kit from racing before that you would want to use and you will be on the pace if your set ups good and you can drive ok.
Cost wise I ran a £24.95 brushless 13.5 in my gt last meeting that ive had for over a year from hong kong it ran great and was as quick as the day i bought it i would swear.
At the same meeting in mardave I saw drivers go through 2 or 3 motors in the day trying to find that edge now not everyone does this of course but surely its unfair to those who cant afford to do it....... but we allow it!!!!!! now these rules that allow brushless motors that will last years with no drop off so no need to buy a tray of g2's if you want to be as fast as the fastest guy down the straight and you guys are moaning???????? I would rather spend another £20-75 on a 13.5 from wherever and save myself the ball ache and extra cost of a motor a meeting over a YEAR to be on the pace with a g2.
Also with the nature of brushless the gearing becomes easier to hit that sweet spot as some g2's do varry in the rev range that they deliver best power. (although the 4 slot is better but still not consistant enough)

What about current racers who already have kit that for example maybe obsolete in Touring cars but fits into the new rules..... you would be asking them to go out and buy a new speedo and motor combo in order to race.... so on that side of the arguement it will cost somebody which ever way you flip it so why not look at these rules and see that while they are flawed they are flawed to allowed as many racers to race as possible.

I raced the mardave circuit series and loved every second but the turnouts were low and so couldnt find anyone to have a "good close race" with and that to me is key to enjoying a days racing.
So to me it would seem the more racers you have the better quality of racing for everyone is.
We can tweak rules and always try to keep things even but do that after you have to have racers to do it for and a large enough number of regular racers to get a general consensous on what direction and what tweaks if any are needed to this rule set.
So just give em a try as you will never know until you do.

P.s sorry for the essay length post lol :lol:

[qatmix]

Again I think it's best just to do one manufacturer then it's a class which is about driver skill and set-up.

If you do want to make it open then you have to include every esc that doesn't allow boost like the hobbywing / speed passion esc's which are cheap and easily available. Adding the RRP limit is pointless.

I like the idea of allowing brushed and lipo, but mardaves are becoming so pointless compared to 1/10 touring at a club level as they cost as much as an entry level TC

[truggy lover]

cheers Tomo me eyes are bleeding lol:woot:

[teamorsum96]

Again I think it's best just to do one manufacturer then it's a class which is about driver skill and set-up.

If you do want to make it open then you have to include every esc that doesn't allow boost like the hobbywing / speed passion esc's which are cheap and easily available. Adding the RRP limit is pointless.

I like the idea of allowing brushed and lipo, but mardaves are becoming so pointless compared to 1/10 touring at a club level as they cost as much as an entry level TC

i agree with GATMIX :thumbsup:

and note wrong with reading essays lol

[TOMO WEF]

The cost of the cars is a separate issue mate. Your are right about the price of entry level tc but again the point is a beginner will bust their car and have to fix it and no entry level tc is as easy to fix or better at introducing the basics of set ups and car maintenance to a kid. Plus the parts are a damn sight cheaper than any Chinese cheapy touring car.

The only other thing is if you allow lipo which is enviable and mardave already sells one, then you have to allow brushless tech and with the absence of a mardave labeled g2 equivalent system then I think these rules are the best compromise.
You have to allow brushless if you allow lipo because a g2 on 3.7 is no good to man nor beast I've done farts that were quicker and more fun for that matter.

All I would ask is that don't dismiss these rules that have had alot of testing and work put into them and try them out guys if you have some old gear laying around have a go or pop over ardent on Sunday and have alook and a chat.

Just another thought surely brushless motors that u you know will be the same everytime you race and then it takes luck out of getting a good g2 and places the emphasis on driver skill rather than luck of the draw or black magic silvercan tuning

[teamorsum96]

The cost of the cars is a separate issue mate. Your are right about the price of entry level tc but again the point is a beginner will bust their car and have to fix it and no entry level tc is as easy to fix or better at introducing the basics of set ups and car maintenance to a kid. Plus the parts are a damn sight cheaper than any Chinese cheapy touring car.

The only other thing is if you allow lipo which is enviable and mardave already sells one, then you have to allow brushless tech and with the absence of a mardave labeled g2 equivalent system then I think these rules are the best compromise.
You have to allow brushless if you allow lipo because a g2 on 3.7 is no good to man nor beast I've done farts that were quicker and more fun for that matter.



All I would ask is that don't dismiss these rules that have had alot of testing and work put into them and try them out guys if you have some old gear laying around have a go or pop over ardent on Sunday and have alook and a chat.

Just another thought surely brushless motors that u you know will be the same everytime you race and then it takes luck out of getting a good g2 and places the emphasis on driver skill rather than luck of the draw or black magic silvercan tuning

sorry but i was ROFL at the 'I've done farts that were quicker and more fun for that matter'. :woot:

[Churk]

The list of speedo is the best thing to do.
You cannot say one specific speedo or combo supply and demand wouldn't cope specially with shops holding less stock in the current financial climate.
In comparison to the speed of the cars, making it 13.5 basically levels the playing field anyway using non turbo speedos.
Im running a GTB and have been for the series at Ardent with a SP 13.5 and it is no slower on accel or top end than my mates LRP SSX (non turbo version).
This is plainly down to the 1s lipos being used, it limits the speedos and makes it a surprisingly level playing field.
All the people complaining about havin to sell NiMhs you only need two lipos for the day at about 40 quid each. You need 3 at the least sets of 4cells to race and to be competitive in mardave you need decent ones, unless you are an amazing driver which means they will be 35quid each.... you work out the math.
G2 motors are a pot luck game you either get a good one or a bad one. You dont get that with brushless thus again a even playing field. this means you will get closer racing, more competition making it better for everyone.
I understand that some dont have the money to fork out on brushless speedos which at the end of the day are £80 max and all but were not forcing you to do so, as you seen in the video at the start of the thread there is little that makes no difference between the two.
Its not a case of you have to run brushless its just a slow development into the inevitable future of the class.
People can argue all you like but it will eventually fase out nimhs and brushed technology.
Embrace the future dont argue over it.

[Gazza]

PMSL. . .

I farted and missed FTD by 300th of a sec then tonight :lol:

[Chequered Flag Racing]

13.5T BL Motors

If the section is to be recognised within the BRCA will the 13.5T motor be limited to the BRCA EB list for any BRCA sanctioned events?

[Tezcat]

13.5T BL Motors

If the section is to be recognised within the BRCA will the 13.5T motor be limited to the BRCA EB list for any BRCA sanctioned events?

I would have thought so and same with the lipo too.

Let's see what the answer is.

[stevo16v]

ive found a 13.5 motor with a 6200 kv rating uk list price £60.00,if i buy one i know who will be winning the first national ,might even have time to get off the rostrum and marshall my own car

[teamorsum96]

ive found a 13.5 motor with a 6200 kv rating uk list price £60.00,if i buy one i know who will be winning the first national ,might even have time to get off the rostrum and marshall my own car

:thumbsup::woot:

[Chequered Flag Racing]

ive found a 13.5 motor with a 6200 kv rating uk list price £60.00,if i buy one i know who will be winning the first national ,might even have time to get off the rostrum and marshall my own car

But if it's not on the BRCA EB listing it won't be legal for a National which would be a BRCA sanctioned event

[stevo16v]

what about the exceed 13.5 motor people have been recomended to buy.thats not on the list and thats 3500kv. more of a 10.5t

[Chequered Flag Racing]

what about the exceed 13.5 motor people have been recomended to buy.thats not on the list and thats 3500kv. more of a 10.5t

ALL Motor's & Batteries need to be on the BRCA EB list to be eligable for a BRCA sanctioned event

[stevo16v]

so are the nationals goin to be run with the proposed rules plus the motor has to be brca registered ?

[ianhaye]

but the motors on the brca list ant axactly all nice and cheap ones witch then defeats the low cost that u are trying to keep, sound be 2 classes g2 4cell and unlimted, job done, 4cell for newbies and unlimted for thous with nice pockets :-)

[mcjjordan]

whats the cheapest on the list then?

[Chequered Flag Racing]

I would have thought so and same with the lipo too.

Let's see what the answer is.

But if it's not on the BRCA EB listing it won't be legal for a National which would be a BRCA sanctioned event



from the bible

The Control of Batteries and Motors.

This works quite simply, with homologation lists produced to inform members what Batteries and Motors are legal to use (and when) at BRCA sanctioned events.

The lists for approved motors are constantly changing, so the BRCA website is used as the point of reference. If a particular make of Battery or Motor is not listed as approved for use, on the homologation lists detailed on this website, it cannot be used at BRCA sanctioned events.

Batteries: - The approval of batteries is limited to once each year. New batteries (cells) have to be submitted to the (EB) by the end of Dec. latest. The (EB) then requires verification from the manufacturer or distributor, that any new cell will be available in the UK in sufficient quantities. Providing a cell complies with the technical specifications and the (EB) are satisfied with the availability criteria, it will be added to the approved list.

The approved list is updated each Jan., but any new cell that has been added does not become legal for use at BRCA sanctioned events until 1st.April following. No new cells will be added to the list during the year. This process informs members of what new cells are allowed before the racing season starts and ensures that any cells purchased are not
out-dated during the racing season.

Motors: - manufacturers on a regular basis release new motors. Because of the spread of events within the various Electric Sections, it would not be practical to limit the homologation of motors to specific dates in the year.

New motors can be submitted to the (EB) for approval at any time in the year. Before a new motor can be added to the relevant homologation list, the (EB) check with the distributor that a significant number have been received in the UK. Providing the new motor submitted complies with technical specifications and the required numbers have been received in the UK, the motor will be added to the homologation list on the website. To make it simple to follow any updates, the (EB) will only add new motors to the homologation lists on Mondays of any particular week.

[Chequered Flag Racing]

whats the cheapest on the list then?

let every one know when you've googled them all ;)

[urstu]

Hi if you run a section within the brca it is up to your particular section what motor and batt rules you run.
There is no mention of the rules put forward being changed,so if anyone goes out and buys an Eceed motor and speed control off the list, and one cell lipo they might have to throw them away at the end of the year because they are not on the BRCA list.These rules have been put forward by a committie of people who hope to be affiliated to the BRCA so these rules must stand until an a AGM .Stu

[truggy lover]

annoying cant get on the brca motor list apge any one else having probs

[stevo16v]

http://www.brca.org/?q=content/homologation-lists-2011-updates/1402
its painfull to find

[truggy lover]

cheers fella :thumbsup:

[terry.sc]

ALL Motor's & Batteries need to be on the BRCA EB list to be eligable for a BRCA sanctioned event
Motors and batteries have to be on the BRCA EB lists only if the section decides to use the EB homologation lists.

The bike section proved a great reason for having well defined rules, or using the EB list if it includes compatible motors. At the 2007 worlds the only stock class rule was the motor had to be 27 turns, the final was won by a 27T motor hand wound by Corally in a modified can. Not something that's likely to happen with brushless though.

There is no requirement for any section to stick to the EB lists, it is down to each section to decide. The Mardave G2 used by the oval, bike and F1 classes isn't on any BRCA list. The bikes also alllow any motor at all in superbikes and any battery under 7.5v which is why most run soft pack lipos.

If the section is going to be BRCA affiliated then the decision to change the rules to use the EB list will be down to the members to make at the AGM, it can't be imposed on the class.

[Chequered Flag Racing]

Motors and batteries have to be on the BRCA EB lists only if the section decides to use the EB homologation lists.



:blush: I stand corrected

[truggy lover]

surely thats a big can of worms to open unless they give a list of there own to be used

[truggy lover]

also if advance time/boost speedo's are not used i would also like to see the banning of advance timed motors i.e. only fixed timed motors :yawn:

[stevo16v]

hows this for a can of worms
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190488465101&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
13.5 turn 6000kv
most 13.5 turn are 2500kv
the exceed is 3500kv that why people are raving how fast they are,but this little motor will blow them all away and is legal in the proposed rules

[truggy lover]

no it isnt thats a 380 motor meaning its a micro motor so no good to man nor beast

[Churk]

also if advance time/boost speedo's are not used i would also like to see the banning of advance timed motors i.e. only fixed timed motors :yawn:

No because even if you can alter the timing of a motor it is still fixed it does not alter through the rev range like it would on a speedo.
What you might gain on revs by turning up the timing you would lose on tourque.

[stevo16v]

its a 380 motor /put on the mardave adapter plate and away you go
the ezrun motor people are using are 380 motors win a bigger fined can and there fast and rated at 3300kv ,i used one in my lwb shark and they were balistic,they would have no problem at all pullin the mardave,

[Dreadstar]

Only one problem with that Steve,and that is the shaft size.The shaft on these little 1/18th motors is only 2mm,and you'll be hard pushed to mount a Mardave pinion onto there,without it being off-centre.:thumbdown: OOPs sorry,I see that the Novak is a 3.18mm shaft rather than the Ezrun motors which are 2mm. It's true that you could fit it in a Dave,but it's not designed to push a kilogramme weight around a track,not without causing serious heat problems.

[Chippy96]

Hi guys,the EZRUN motors that have an even amount of turns,ie;9,10,13ect are 380 size motors but in a 540 size can(as Steve has put earlier-with cooling fins).The motors with .5 of a turn such as 13.5,8.5 ect are full size 540 motors,shaft thickness is the same.The older spec 13.5 is rated at 3300kv,for some reason the newer one(darker blue in colour) is a lot less 2000 odd-i dont know why,i`ll see if I can find out cheers PC.

[teamorsum96]

there we go, cant go wrong with just a G2 lol

[truggy lover]

there we go, cant go wrong with just a G2 lol

Fah lol

[TOMO WEF]

The silvercans are just as bad you can source the same exact can design as the g2 "mardave" motor in anything from 32 turns to 12 turns if you know where to look so silvercan is no better and the ezrun stuff may have good kv ratings but have you checked the tourque at 3.7v? its lame! so it does you no good having all those high revs without the voltage required to access it.

For a test I borrowed Marti Mcbrides car after he had run in the brushed a final at ardent on sunday and I drove it in the brushless dave a final straight after it and even with a battery that had done a race I finished 2nd from the back of the grid in the second leg. Then had my results taken out obviously so as not to bugger up anyones championship.

So with these rules if you like g2 then race g2 if you dont have the knack of picking a good g2 or you dont spend £xxx on the best cels each season then you can go lipo 13.5 and still be the same speed but without the "black magic" thats requiered to get the speed out the things.
Wayne Postans a very capable driver and a tech nutcase had a g2 that was sooooo limp he was getting very frustrated with it and now after watching all the brushless guys go down the straight at the exact same speed as each other wants to run that format.

Check the ardent website fr the qualifiying times between the brushless (13.5-1s) and the brushed guys you will see how close they are.

[Mardaveuk]

Hi All
Been getting loads of calls re this thread. Just to let people know i have had NO input into these rules NOR have have i been asked. Please feel free to call me the commitee if you need any help
Chris
Mardave

Low cost racing and it has worked fo 40 years why change it

[teamorsum96]

Hi All
Been getting loads of calls re this thread. Just to let people know i have had NO input into these rules NOR have have i been asked. Please feel free to call me the commitee if you need any help
Chris
Mardave

Low cost racing and it has worked fo 40 years why change it


totally agree with you there :thumbsup:

[truggy lover]

please please please re-read the thread no one is changing any thing under the proposed rules mardave as it is will not change as i have read it

only thing is to bring in new ruling on the 13.5t/lipo class so that they can run together and hopefully keep numbers up

i ran mardave as a 4 cell silver can and even at a gp at hinkley with hand out motors some peeps ran out side ran motors in in buckets of water others sprayed a full can of wd40 on a motor and when on track there motors were so much faster that wont change

with some one starting out with a 13.5t lipo setup they can gear there cars the same and race on a more even level whats the problem

PS i am not on the commitee just willing to move with the times

no more black art silver can magic and no more tending to nimh cells

just charge and race which is all i want to do :thumbsup:

[dirtyghost]

Thanks for your positive support Chris.........!

And as for asking you, you were asked to be part of the comity and declined.(Not that it would be fair to have the company that makes the cars on the comity) but that's just my personal view.
Loads of people ringing you Chris... wot 5 people at most BT must be busy.

No one is changing anything as truggy lover has said we are just bringing things in line with current changes like lipo's and kit that's not from the ark, times change as do trends and peoples interests, this is being done to make things fair because at the moment if your not a wizz at brushed motor fiddling you have no chance, brushed motor's are far to hit and miss if you get a good one then you are ok for maybe 3 meets then they drop off brushless dont do this - buy one and use it for a few years perhaps.......... this has to be a good thing.
I myself have just changed over to brushless after running brushed for years, so much less stress in the pits after a race, no WD40 no com drops no cotton buds no greasy hands covered in oil and crud from the motor....... in fact i gave it a brush off and had a chat and caught up with some people i haven't had time to for ages in the pits.

Rant over cheers Marti.

[teamorsum96]

i here and read what your saying, and im all for change, but mardave is the simplest form of RC racing.the best drivers keep buyin new motors every few weeks, what do you think will happen with the brushless,they will just go out and buy new brushless motors every few months instead.:thumbdown:

are club tryed the brushless and lipo, and it died off within few weeks:thumbsup: lol

[qatmix]

If they buy a new 13.5t every few months it won't be any faster! Even so it would still be cheaper than buying a new silvercan every 3-4 weeks.

[Gazza]

Thanks for your positive support Chris.........!

And as for asking you, you were asked to be part of the comity and declined.

I will 2nd that as well as we did ask you Chris :confused:
We called the meeting at Ardent remember :thumbsup:


Low cost racing and it has worked fo 40 years why change it

Becouse Im sick of buying G2's and Cells and Lipo is even cheaper so thats LOW LOW cost racing :thumbsup:


what do you think will happen with the brushless,they will just go out and buy new brushless motors every few months instead.:thumbdown:

are club tryed the brushless and lipo, and it died off within few weeks:thumbsup: lol

Buying new brushless every few months :lol: PMSL

I dont know what you where running but as for 1s LiPo and 13.5 brushless my Fusion motor still going after nearly two years and thats a £40 motor so that MYTH is . . . . .BUSTED :thumbsup::thumbsup:


So again to all who have forgot and getting confused

G2 and 4 cell is still running no change there :thumbsup:

There is a new class called. . .

Brushless and we run 13.5 and 1s LiPo thats it in in a nut shell

so you have two options. . . .
old STOCK class G2 and 4 cell or New 13.5 you pays your money and takes ya choice

But do ask some one who has just converted its way more fun

[Gazza]

Again this is Ardent race way Last Sunday

G2 4cell

Russ Payne 19 / 301.39


Nick Cooper 19 / 301.68
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

13.5 B/Less 1s LiPo


James Carvell 19 / 301.66

Gary Crisp 19 / 303.17


So as you can see by the laps and the times A GOOD G2 is on par with the B/Less guys So if you where there racing and got lapped by Nick so many times then you need to learn the black art of Motors / Cells etc . . .

Now if you have had enough and want to quit because you cant keep up DONT

Go Brushless

Full results at Ardent http://www.ardentracing.com/raceway/results.php?date=10-04-2011 Ardent Summer Series Round 1 . . . . Ardent Summer Series Round 1

[Paulnuneaton]

Hi All
Been getting loads of calls re this thread. Just to let people know i have had NO input into these rules NOR have have i been asked. Please feel free to call me the commitee if you need any help
Chris
Mardave

Low cost racing and it has worked fo 40 years why change it

yes 40 years now we all know things change just like council tax car tax do we need another 40 years of being in the dark ages
Its called moving forward!!!!!! andf it can only be for the better!!!!!:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[mcjjordan]

im loving the idea of ditching nimh and going lipo but have no idea what charger id need as never used lipo before...

whats a good/cheap charger to use and what spec do i look for?

[truggy lover]

http://www.modelsport.co.uk/fusion-lx60b-elysium-pro-intelligent-balance-charger/rc-car-products/30776

i use this one 12/240v charger

no power supply needed and can run from a liesure battery if needed can balance charge as well can be had from £50 link just for info

[Mardaveuk]

Hi All
I think some of you have miss understod what i said, i realy need a set of rules set so we can move this on and progress forward. Mardave is and always will be behind the Circuit section and as Gary says lipo/Brushless is the way forward. The G2BL system soon to be re re;leased in a 13.5 format and within the price limmit.
So iam here if any help is needed. a manufacturer i thought it was better that i let the racers form a strong committe.
Cheers All

ps please e-mail me as i don't always get chance to read all this thread
Chris

[truggy lover]

well any rules have to better if the manufacturer is on side and work together to get things right for the racers

I think with forums and email txt and alike things can be read and taken out of context

like BT keep saying its good to TALK !! :woot:

[Gazza]

The G2BL system soon to be re re;leased in a 13.5 format and within the price limmit.
Chris

Please. . please. . Please tell us its a proper Sensored system other wise you will be wasting your time Chris :thumbsup:

Yea send one up to me for testing so I can find any flaws if any . . .

You know how much effort I have put into this it would be a shame now to miss out

[Karl Dransfield]

then you need to learn the black art of Motors / Cells etc . . .

People keep referring to this "black art", what do you mean by black art? :eh?:

Also what are these rules for? There are no BRCA sanctioned events for mardave circuit yet.

[Gazza]

wacking motor out and playing with the brush's type of thing . . .
THAT black art :woot:

The rules are for Mardave racing you know keep it the same other wise people will be running 64dp Gears :thumbsup:

[4_cell_racer]

wacking motor out and playing with the brush's type of thing . . .
THAT black art :woot:

The rules are for Mardave racing you know keep it the same other wise people will be running 64dp Gears :thumbsup:

Peeps are already running 64dp gazza (I'm sure!!!)

[Gazza]

Shame really.. . :cry:

I see people using wrong pitch gears ESC & now I see people selling up and going back to other forms of racing

What a shame they killed it because they cant follow simple rules that were posted. . . . oh well never mind I tried

[truggy lover]

i am selling mine gazza cos if i go on a normal club meet there isnt enough to make a heat so you end up racing with standard which are not the same and also the cars are slower as you know

This all sounds daft but when you think its £20 to get there and back and then £8 to race its not really a fun days racing

so hoping that racing the rc10r5 will have more consistant racing and better standard of driving

[Gazza]

Its all down to set ups and good drivers I guess. . .

I race at clubs where the G2 and 4 cell is on par with the 13.5 and 1s so what you are running is really a good G2 setup.

If you are beating the G2 class now then im sorry to say these will NEVER make an A final at compition racing as there way to slow already.
Sorry guys but thats what its like if any G2 and 4 cell Dave cant keep up with a 13.5 then they will never make the A final there way to slow but its a shame you could be the best driver but if the motor and cells cant keep up with brushless then thats it game over

Because the top G2 and 4 cell racers we race neck to neck with our brushless

[Karl Dransfield]

Shame really.. . :cry:

I see people using wrong pitch gears ESC & now I see people selling up and going back to other forms of racing

What a shame they killed it because they cant follow simple rules that were posted. . . . oh well never mind I tried

I know full well what you are referring to by this gazza.
People can run whatever pitch gears they want in the ardent summer series, The only rules that are in place for these meetings are: 3.7v Lipo, 13.5t brushless, no boost, advanced timing or turbo, cars must be 1kg. No advantage can be gained by running 64dp gears as opposed to 48dp.

Karl

[Garry Spice]

At maritime club nights we 'davers' use g2,saturn20t and anssman21t motors with 7.4 lipos.now we've had problems with the saturns not lasting a 6min run(cos thats what we run to).personaly id like to use brushless motors like the carpet rules are run to.
cells and g2's are old tech,kids coming in only know lipo/brushless so lets drag this class out the dark ages and enbrace new tech tahts out there!

[Garry Spice]

*carpet wars

[Chequered Flag Racing]

I see people using wrong pitch gears ESC & now I see people selling up and going back to other forms of racing

What a shame they killed it because they cant follow simple rules that were posted. . . . oh well never mind I tried

Novak GTB2 & motor under the price limit on the way :D

[Gazza]

I know full well what you are referring to by this gazza.
People can run whatever pitch gears they want in the ardent summer series, The only rules that are in place for these meetings are: 3.7v Lipo, 13.5t brushless, no boost, advanced timing or turbo, cars must be 1kg. No advantage can be gained by running 64dp gears as opposed to 48dp.

Karl

I was not going to memtion Names Karl but as you owned up :p

Wrong . . and my all time fav BUSTED . ..
We where running it to the new rules to see how it went so 90% of us followed but a few did not like a Tekin esc etc any way . . .

as in your post above like no turbo or boost and you even went and bought lead weight to bring it up to the 1kg etc you ran it to the rules that we had you even had a GTB2 like most of us ran with
Then did a complete U turn and went 64dp . . . . WHY just WHY

let me guess because you only had 64dp . . . wrong again as I know you have Mardave 32dp like most of us LOL

Ardent was the place to do it if I turn up at the next Ardent meeting with a car running 1kg 1s Lipo and 64dp thats fine I take it but if I then said I have a Tekin full blown turbo and boost and wipe the floor then its wrong its that simple I cant make it any easier for you to follow :o

@ Gary Spice

Yea at local club meets thats great Heck even I might build one with 7.2v but the point Most of us are trying to do is get the rules sorted to which every one can run to to make it fair all round

[Gazza]

Novak GTB2 & motor under the price limit on the way :D


Sorry lost me on this one ?

[Paulnuneaton]

Rules what rules that was just a lip service because the rules were made and no one could even be bothered to turn up to the brca meeting to show them.
Again the wheel has been re invented the main part was to get the circuit racer noticed in his own rights, not re invent the wheel i have sat back watched listened and seen nothing i have seen a lot op people waste huge amounts of money changing their esc to conform but how can you conform when you do not have a set of rules for everyone to chew over guys you had the chance to bring the car to the forefront and get its own section but it farted and died. sorry if this upsets you but as from what i can see it was a paper tiger thats all.
Now before anyone of the said says the rules were run at the first round of rc circuit cars well i can tell you that they was not.
why because i am the organiser of the said series no one came to me and said we are runing the new rules. no car was inspected after a race so that rubbishes that line of thought.
so now i intend to pick the ball up myself and run with it if there are any genuine intrested partys that would dearly love to see the Mardave in the BRCA under its own section for circuit racing then please do get in touch with me.
We dont need ground breaking rules we need simple rules that make it fun and close after all the rules would need to be given the green light by the BRCA and i think before that the guys who formed the rules would have to show that they have run series for 12 months before they would sit down and talk shop. to see a very close mate decide to leave dave racing and a few more leave is sad. so dont break what is working but try and get those who run the BRCA to sit up and take note that the Dave plays a vital role in rc car racing and is a car that many new starters turn to before going on to other forms of racing. so it needs to be SIMPLE EASY COST EFFECTIVE AND FUN CLASS!!! thats my view on it all

[Karl Dransfield]

Wrong . . and my all time fav BUSTED . ..
We where running it to the new rules to see how it went so 90% of us followed but a few did not like a Tekin esc etc any way . . .

I'm not quite sure what you mean here :eh?:



let me guess because you only had 64dp . . . wrong again as I know you have Mardave 32dp like most of us LOL


Do the maths Gazza, you can't achieve the correct gear ratios for brushless on 32dp, you would need a 22t pinion. There isn't sufficient room for this.


Ardent was the place to do it if I turn up at the next Ardent meeting with a car running 1kg 1s Lipo and 64dp thats fine I take it

Yes that is fine as it complies with the ardent summer series rules.

but if I then said I have a Tekin full blown turbo and boost and wipe the floor

No that isn't fine as the ardent summer series rules state that no advanced timing, turbo or boost is allowed. You can run the tekin rs but it must be in 'blinky' mode.

[teamorsum96]

if i no, there wasn't really no hassle with the old rules. lol

a good read tho :p

[beckybean66]

lol with all the hastle going on about these rules and what not im soooooo glad the club we go to is more layed back and doesnt really bother with rules, makes it more fun and less serious which is how it should be so i say SCREW THE RULES lol
:p

[teamorsum96]

lol with all the hastle going on about these rules and what not im soooooo glad the club we go to is more layed back and doesnt really bother with rules, makes it more fun and less serious which is how it should be so i say SCREW THE RULES lol
:p

lol so true

and well done to karl for his win on saturday :thumbsup:

[Karl Dransfield]

lol so true

and well done to karl for his win on saturday :thumbsup:

Cheers Jamie :)

[4_cell_racer]

13.5 Brushless system no advance timing

I thought BOTH speedo and MOTOR are to have NO advance timing on them Karl?? ;):confused:

[Karl Dransfield]

I thought BOTH speedo and MOTOR are to have NO advance timing on them Karl?? ;):confused:

Nope, just on speedos I think : "Only forward / reverse Brushless ESC’s with NO TURBO or BOOST or on the fly timing advance function from the following list may be used".

This same rule applies for the Ardent summer series rules : "Mardave 13.5 Brushless: 1S LiPo, 13.5 Brushless system no advance timing, our knowledge of ESCs will enable us to check your car."

Changing the timing on the motor only has the same effect as gearing it up anyway so it's not really worth it. :)

Karl

[Gazza]

As per Lee correct

Mardave 13.5 Brushless (10 entries max)
1S LiPo, 13.5 Brushless system no advance timing, our knowledge of ESCs will enable us to check your car. Abuse will mean instant ban and no refund, so don't try it :-|.

it does not mention gears as Karl rightly says but its common knowledge also does not state body shells neither so you can also run a 1/12th shell then :thumbsup: nor does it mention tyres so fit GT10 wheels on it as well but alas we thought you would not have to list all the rules as like we say its common knowledge

but alas its all out the window Lee people run what what they like and its gone way beyond a Joke now.

There is a few that have had enough and packed up and gone other class's I to have now had enough and will be running my other fav car . . . GT10 :thumbsup:

[4_cell_racer]

Nope, just on speedos I think : "Only forward / reverse Brushless ESC’s with NO TURBO or BOOST or on the fly timing advance function from the following list may be used".

This same rule applies for the Ardent summer series rules : "Mardave 13.5 Brushless: 1S LiPo, 13.5 Brushless system no advance timing, our knowledge of ESCs will enable us to check your car."

Changing the timing on the motor only has the same effect as gearing it up anyway so it's not really worth it. :)

Karl

To me the word system mean both speedo & motor mate ;)

But could well be wrong (I have in the past lol)

[4_cell_racer]

Changing the timing on the motor only has the same effect as gearing it up anyway so it's not really worth it. :)

Karl

So why do people run them? Apart from giving someone the (maybe) slight edge over other racers.

Similar to 64dp gears = more gearing/finer tuning options.....TBH I was going to run 64dp on my Dave and was told it was a no no, so sold all my 64dp gear :(

It all adds up at the end of the day ;)

[Karl Dransfield]

I have taken my 64dp off now anyway. I got fed up of the incessant whining about it from other people.

So why do people run them? Apart from giving someone the (maybe) slight edge over other racers.

Similar to 64dp gears = more gearing/finer tuning options.....TBH I was going to run 64dp on my Dave and was told it was a no no, so sold all my 64dp gear :(

It all adds up at the end of the day ;)

Not sure on the timing rule then :eh?:

That motor I had in last time at Ardent came as standard with -6 degrees of timing out of the box so I had to advance it so it had zero degrees (no timing) on so it fell within the rules anyway.

Are you racing next sunday Lee?

[4_cell_racer]

I have taken my 64dp off now anyway. I got fed up of the incessant whining about it from other people.



Not sure on the timing rule then :eh?:

That motor I had in last time at Ardent came as standard with -6 degrees of timing out of the box so I had to advance it so it had zero degrees (no timing) on so it fell within the rules anyway.

Are you racing next sunday Lee?

Dude I know how you feel about peeps whining lol thats why its taken me sooooo long to go over to 13.5 in my Dave, think this is my 3rd attempt to ditch the brushed and go to BL :rolleyes:

Neither am I mate........the rules are a little vague for the class and I think need to be clarified more, so peeps know where they stand with regards on what can and cannot be used :thumbsup:

Is it that time again...is it the summer series again? if so that seems a quick! if it is the summer series I should be there :thumbsup:

[qatmix]

what is the advantage of .64 pitch? Its just a gearing option.. What justification can be used to ban that?

[teamorsum96]

ist it just a finer for tunning your gearing?

[qatmix]

yep, which is why I cant see why it would be banned? Its just the same has having different shore tyres, different tyre depth etc..

[Karl Dransfield]

what is the advantage of .64 pitch? Its just a gearing option.. What justification can be used to ban that?

There is no advantage whatsoever to running 64dp, this is what I couldn't understand :eh?:

[Karl Dransfield]

Dude I know how you feel about peeps whining lol thats why its taken me sooooo long to go over to 13.5 in my Dave, think this is my 3rd attempt to ditch the brushed and go to BL :rolleyes:

Neither am I mate........the rules are a little vague for the class and I think need to be clarified more, so peeps know where they stand with regards on what can and cannot be used :thumbsup:

Is it that time again...is it the summer series again? if so that seems a quick! if it is the summer series I should be there :thumbsup:

Glad someone else shares my frustration lol. I'm sure everything will sort itself out. :)

Yep Ardent summer series on sunday :thumbsup: I shall be there!

[KJR]

advantage of 64dp is that you may be able to run a higher final drive ration. The range of 32dp pinion and spur is quite limited.

Personally wouldn't run 64dp in anything other than my 12th but 48dp would allow me to use all my TC pinions and save having three different types of pinion.

[TOMO WEF]

Well mardave sell a 48dp pitch gear diff for the v12 so I cannot see why 48dp cannot be used.
The advantage of 64dp is a more efficient drive but the downside is a much more fragile drive train and a greater chance of stripping a spur.

[teamorsum96]

i agree :D

[Wynney]

Surely 48dp gears are not an issue as they can be bought from Mardave. But shouldn't the rules stipulate the available window or ratios? So any gear ratio as long as its listed on the Mardave price list, but doesn't have to be bought from mardave necesarily. Seems a no brainer to me and how the regs are written in lots of 1:1 forms motor sport.

The whole idea of the rules was to champion cheap racing but brought up to date, so if people have relevant parts in their pit boxes then they should be ableto use them, within reason.

[uop101]

Guys
Do read the rules, it does say in the FIRST paragraph that either 32 or 48 dp may be used.
64dp gears were not included because Mardave do not produce them and when I put the rules together I felt that the Mardave rear pod was too flexible for the fine mesh gears, one small bump and there goes another spur gear.
If Mardave produce an alloy motormount sometime in the near future (hopefully with proper ride height adjustment like the 1/12 or GT10) then this option could be looked at.

[ch!3f]

grow some balls people and except that the rules are the rules its to make things fair fair enough some folk will have to sell and buy new escs to run but its to make it close racing not whos got the most expensive gear in there car and haw fast it goes.

no more advantages over the lower budget racers makes fair racing but thats what there all worried about!

[Gazza]

Guys
Do read the rules, it does say in the FIRST paragraph that either 32 or 48 dp may be used.
64dp gears were not included because Mardave do not produce them and when I put the rules together I felt that the Mardave rear pod was too flexible for the fine mesh gears, one small bump and there goes another spur gear.
If Mardave produce an alloy motormount sometime in the near future (hopefully with proper ride height adjustment like the 1/12 or GT10) then this option could be looked at.


PMSL I think James and me are the only two people that have read them
But please go back to page 1 and . . . R E A D

[teamorsum96]

PMSL I think James and me are the only two people that have read them
But please go back to page 1 and . . . R E A D

it does say 32 or 48dp. wow i dont need glassers lol
i have never even seen 64dp on a mardave only on old losi touring car.

[mcjjordan]

are the rules on first page correct?

ie have there been any updates as this thread goes along...

[Paulnuneaton]

I would not worry to much about the rules that are being drawn up i know james has been working hard on them but the body that was going to make the rules are just paper tigers. Nothing is passed by the brca quite a few guys sold good takle all for the point of thinking these rules where what they needed to do!!!!
i would wait and wait and wait until something is concrete not just jelly at the moment and the BRCA say they have adopted them and im sure that is a long way off !!!!

[mcjjordan]

anyone tried this combo yet?

http://www.modelsport.co.uk/modelsport-uk-blast-bl-12-brushless-system/rc-car-products/40027


looks like mtroniks/hobbytech
ie new mardave system?

[dodgydiy]

looking at this discussion of motors in a v12, the ezrun 13 turn finned 380 motor with a 35 amp ezrun speedo is pretty potent in a touring car, it seems to work ok in a v12 on 4 cell nimh, although it is a fair bit quicker than the brushed motor, dont have 1 cell lipos but i suspect a voltage booster may be needed and performance would surely be on a par with a full can 13.5 motor which costs considerably more. why cant something like these £55 combo's be adopted, they really are excellent value, the one i run in the touring car at club is over three years old and has had a lot of hours of abuse and still flies.

[Paulnuneaton]

The rules what were made hold no weight as they have not been give the go ahead by the brca just some guys who put some work into making the rules. this in turn started a mass panic people started selling good stuff because they thought these rules would be inforced.

shame because i think we lost more dave drivers over night so why re invent the wheel thats what i say.

we should get on enjoy what we are doing having fun with out the politics maybe just maybe after this years daves Nats then some rules can be batted about and worked on till then it game on as normal

[Chequered Flag Racing]

'Blinky' esc list posted on BRCA site.

No Nosram's on it though:confused:

http://www.brca.org/sites/default/files/library_files/markstiles/BRCA%20Blinky%20ESC's%202011.pdf

[Mr Eccleston]

You would hope that the most sensible thing would be to use this list for speedo's, but perhaps with a price limit. It would save duplication and it's maintained by a well organised section of the BRCA (as they all are :D ). For those that want to use a different speedo it's just a case of getting it added.

[Chequered Flag Racing]

Mardave Circuit Rules V6! posted on FB

MARDAVE PROPOSED V12 BRCA CIRCUIT CONSTRUCTION RULES

see http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5061408/Rules/Mardave%20Circuit%20Rules%20V6.pdf

[VW-Powah]

lol

Last year we started with some peeps in Belgium to drive this nice class and we called it "Mardave Unlimited" because of all those cranky rules in RC racing that are destroying the fun. Just build your madave like in the kit and then try to fit any ESC & motor combo you like. Most of use drive 2 cell lipo and 8,5Turn to 13,5 turn... because of the larger lipo's you may build your own batterieholder out of any material... All bodies(kamtec, etc...) may be used as long as they are scale 1/12th


voila as easy as it gets.... you may say.. what 2 cell and 8,5 turn? thats unfair... but most of the time the 13,5 turns dude wins :)

We drive any circuit that fits the 1/12 pancake cars :p