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View Full Version : useless full spikes and a new surface to race on..


branstonpickle
03-04-2011, 11:45 AM
I no its not just me that gets annoyed with haven to spend loads of time getting my full spikes to wear down and then when they are ready only lasting a few weeks before i need to start a new set again when after visiting outher in door tracks it seems obvious to have carpet we can lay down the lenth of the hull and leave the shiny floor for an added challange rather than trying to get the cars to work the other way round with shiny floor and then some carpet on the jumps we would all so save money on tyers as they last so much longer on carpet and can be run till there bold i no the carpet would cost money to start with but id rather donate money for some carpet then have to spend more money on tyers each time just thought id put this up to see if people agree or are happy the way it is thanks.........

Hog
03-04-2011, 03:04 PM
Many years ago the club invested in enough Primafelt to carpet the whole hall each week. There's still odd pieces of it laying about under the stage I think......

Back then we used to run 13 week leagues, and there was call for the club to try something different to the regular slippery floor.

After 2 leagues the unanimous verdict was that racing on carpet was boring and could we go back to the slippery stuff.......it seemed too much like touring car racing. Having said that - that was back then - if the club wanted to try something different "again" I'm sure it would be given consideration.

How about another idea - how about a harder control tyre? Would save on wear, would slow everyone down as the grip available would be reduced, and would probably also do away with the current trend of super boosted ESC's.

Just a thought.......

s22jgs
03-04-2011, 03:28 PM
Why not just say all esc's to be run stock, no boosting

rc_penguin
03-04-2011, 03:35 PM
The quality of the full spikes atm seems to be shocking, quite a few of you will say that its because of the amount of timing we now run and just the speeds are far greater than what they used to be so the tyres wear is greater, which is right but we used to get 5 odd months out of a set whilst they were worn in, now we can only get 2 to 3 weeks after 3 weeks of running em in?

I ran one set which i had from when i first started at the club from the 1st round of the winter series, they lasted through to the fourth round inc all the week nights in-between before they were worn out, i ran dads set at the 5th, then i ran a new set in for the last round, they were completely slick the Wednesday after. (And i ran the same, speedo/motor combo on the same advance settings throughout the series)

I've even had a set were the they wore were one side of the tire would be slick and the other would have a good 3/4mm of spike, it was like half the tire was a different compound.

Carpet would be nice, as the tire choice would be much much larger, but obviously this means an extra ten mins laying the carpet down when the track iis built and the original cost of the carpet.
But i agree with Jamie, im a bit fed up of full spikes...

Team No Idea
03-04-2011, 03:38 PM
something else to consider. The choice of tyre for most racers on carpet would probably move to minipins?? we know from maritime that they will last 2 practice runs, 3 qualifiers and 1 final before they are ready for replacement. so that amount of runs equates to just 2 weeks of racing at faversham.......so new tyres every 2 weeks??? that makes it a tad expensive for some of the drivers.

whissstle
03-04-2011, 03:44 PM
The thing is maritime's hall is 2-3 times the size of ours so we cant put the power down as much, also at maritime we use modified motors where as at faversham we stay with 13.5t motors so less power.

I also agree with Jamie for carpet.:thumbsup:

branstonpickle
03-04-2011, 04:15 PM
with a 13.5 and carpet tyers will last a lot longer im still useing mine from maritime and silverstone with tread on them still.....

Hog
03-04-2011, 06:25 PM
The yellow spikes I do think are having a wayward time at the moment. Mine have worn really weirdly which makes for some random handling characteristics at times.

Either that or I'm just becoming more s**t as I edge towards 40 :cry:

Edit - my tyres have been on for a fair while now. Yes they've worn but I'm no-where near killing a set every few weeks.

Tractor Boy
03-04-2011, 08:29 PM
I would have to go with hog on this one, talking as a driver when we had carpet down all those years ago and run on foams the car went where you wanted it to go and set up was well just show up and put it on the track, which as dave has said after 3 or 4 months of this we where all bored stupid and the 800 pound carpet was stuck under the stage never to see light again. As i remember we had a vote on the use of the carpet at that time and 95% of the 70 odd drivers at the time said get rid of it.

Now as for saying there is something wrong with the full spikes at the moment well pull the other one guys i watch some of you going round with these super fast ECS wheel spining on the straight for god sake and you ask why are my tyres only lasting 3 to 4 weeks at best. speed and wheel spin = wear so its a price you are paying to go the speed you all seem to think you must go nowadays so in my humble opinion slow down and the tyres will last like they used to and as for carpet apart from what i pointed out earlier who is going to get it out each week and lay it, i know the same few who do it now, i don,t think so from my angle we do anuff as it is with out more.

Pleas do not take this as my club my ways as i do not mean that atall just pointing out the facts.

Regards Alan

branstonpickle
04-04-2011, 10:32 AM
i dont run these silly speed speedos and i no some people are even trying slower moters to try to get more grip its just the fact u can tern up one week and have grip then the next its like driveing on ice witch just causes more crashes i think its more predictability people are after to help people get closer races................i might be wrong just my view

LD RACE-TECH
04-04-2011, 01:56 PM
In no form of motorsport or racing can you not get away with tyre wear that's the way it goes I'm afraid in racing if you want to be competitive you will push harder and wear them out faster.

colmo
04-04-2011, 01:58 PM
I've raced at Clogher Valley MCC on and off over the last 2 years or so, which also runs on polished wood, in quite a small hall, with a 10.5 motor limit - generally with no or little timing advance, there's no advantage to it given the space available.

It seems there are quite a number of factors at play, including dust, what else the hall was used for that week, and surface temperature.

Who can forget the bouncy castle fiasco, which due to sand on the underside, sanded the varnish off and ruined the floor entirely for racing!

Hog
04-04-2011, 02:24 PM
We run to a 13.5 brushless limit at FORCC.

Jamie - as you know we are at the mercy of other people using the hall. From what I know the hall is used on a Monday evening by the old time dancing brigade, and I believe they put down chalk dust to help their zimmer frames glide across the floor.

Unfortunately by Wednesday some of that dust remains and affects our racing. The only answer as I see it is for the floor to be mopped before the track is laid each week......and as has been mentioned previously getting people to step up and assist more seems to fall on deaf ears so that's not going to happen.

colmo
04-04-2011, 02:41 PM
We run to a 13.5 brushless limit at FORCC.

Jamie - as you know we are at the mercy of other people using the hall. From what I know the hall is used on a Monday evening by the old time dancing brigade, and I believe they put down chalk dust to help their zimmer frames glide across the floor.

Unfortunately by Wednesday some of that dust remains and affects our racing. The only answer as I see it is for the floor to be mopped before the track is laid each week......and as has been mentioned previously getting people to step up and assist more seems to fall on deaf ears so that's not going to happen.

I doubt it's chalk - that would be abrasive to the floor. It could be dance floor polish, which I think is a sort of wax - needless to say, not great for traction.

Hog
04-04-2011, 03:35 PM
Thought it was something called French chalk?

Either way I'm no dancer so I wouldn't know lol.

But yes you can see something on the tyres when it's slippery.

branstonpickle
04-04-2011, 03:48 PM
If i could get up there to help set up i would but kinda limited to what time i get there with getting a lift to raceing

colmo
04-04-2011, 04:02 PM
Thought it was something called French chalk?

Either way I'm no dancer so I wouldn't know lol.

But yes you can see something on the tyres when it's slippery.

It's not regular chalk, that's calcium carbonate -


French Chalk (http://www.cromwell.co.uk/KEN9100300K)

A natural compact talc made from a soft magnesium silicate mineral (MgH 2 (SiO 3)4) also known as Steatite or Soapstone.It's a dry lubricant, so only way to get that off is wipe it off, maybe with a moist mop.

Rebelrc
04-04-2011, 04:22 PM
8x4 sheets of ply?
lot of hassle to lay and pack up?

LD RACE-TECH
04-04-2011, 04:49 PM
Is this class not off road? If we was outside it would be mud dust stones all sorts of abbrasive elements the results are pretty much the same every week so it's clearly not causing a problem

spud31
04-04-2011, 05:11 PM
17.5 anyone lol

Anyway my minipins did 3 runs at moto arena an thats on a 2wd so tyre wear at fav is less than normal.

sfry61
04-04-2011, 07:55 PM
quit your moaning :p

Worn tyres are a part of any kind of racing, just ease up on the throttle finger:lol:

discostu
04-04-2011, 08:02 PM
hey chaps

how you all been oh those were the days running on carpet i must have missed the club vote yet again! back then my tamiya f1 car was pretty good on the fluffy stuff i have the first place trofy some where in my shed im up for carpet can i bring my tc over.

stu

Tractor Boy
04-04-2011, 08:09 PM
We had a TC in the hall once many years ago but we got on to rent a kill and they put some bait down and we have had no more trouble since :thumbsup:.

Good to here from you Stu hope all is ok in your world.

rc_penguin
04-04-2011, 08:24 PM
17.5 anyone lol

Anyway my minipins did 3 runs at moto arena an thats on a 2wd so tyre wear at fav is less than normal.


They still work at slick though, Ed tq'ed on slicks :thumbsup:

Tractor Boy
04-04-2011, 08:39 PM
Ed could get TQ driving a bus round most tracks he,s that good so would not use that as a arguement on tyre wear.

branstonpickle
04-04-2011, 08:48 PM
But if everyone had the same amount of grip the raceing would be closer

rc_penguin
04-04-2011, 08:53 PM
Ed could off course TQ with almost anything, but Me, Mike and Tom were also running on slicks and were in the mix of the A... Tom even came 3rd of 4th? cant really remember.. Its more the compound that makes the difference on such a high grip surface.

Tractor Boy
04-04-2011, 08:57 PM
And if i had the lottery numbers for next week i would be a rich man, but life is not that easy, we have to work hard for things we want in life and tyre grip is one of them :thumbsup:

Rebelrc
04-04-2011, 08:58 PM
Was the hall floor re varnished cause it looked and felt different to drive on?
If it has maybe it will be better on tyre wear.
But other than that I cannot see an answer that would be 100% watertight
1. 17.5 turn ......... The whole club would need to buy a new motor all at the same time.... Bad ... But what about 540 gold cans not brushless
2. Blue compound tyres (not sure if they are still available ) ...... Easy to rub off the yellow dot and cheat (Elliot) Elliot you are a cheat!!!! And you would do that straight away, licking it off ,cheat perv!
3. Cover the floor ........ Difficult to setup and pack away + space to store and expense of buying! But astro indoor would be ace with mini spikes not pins so as to last longer or dboots even better wear rate!

I personally like the cover the floor with sheets of ply and push drawing pins through the tyres from the inside= lots of grip and changeable spikes lol , oh and gloves for the marshals ;)

MHeadling
04-04-2011, 09:00 PM
Will are you talking about slick full spikes or slick mini pins?

How about 2 strips of carpet with the natural floor up the middle, carpet and polished wood?

I was in a rush at Moto Arena and used full spikes on carpet there and they felt pretty good so would work on both carpet and polished but would be better when worn on the carpet bits.

Bit of give and take really?

Tractor Boy
04-04-2011, 09:08 PM
Not really sure what you want me to say wil, where you raced at the weekend is light years from our little village hall.

Maybe we can have a chat on wends night regards what you lot are saying and maybe i am geting to old to help run the club anymore and maybe it needs some younger people to take charge, not me throwing dummy out of pram just fact i think i am geting older and maybe i just want to take things a bit easier, we will see as don,t want to post any more on this subject as rather talk to a face.

Regards currant FORCC chairman Alan.

branstonpickle
04-04-2011, 09:13 PM
Wood and carpet was what i asked about to start with then any tyers would work well in the hull

Rebelrc
04-04-2011, 09:15 PM
Mark slicks are slicks lol:woot:
I like the idea of 3 rolls of astro unsand filled (clean) as they are light, rolled out in minutes and taped then build track as normal
Then we could use those hard dboots tyres for hopefully ages and would work straight out of their packets until they were bald
Yes it would be a club outlay at first but should save members a fortune and give close consistent racing.:wub

That was member as in club member, not member like Elliot :thumbsup:

branstonpickle
04-04-2011, 09:29 PM
That was the plan to ask people if they thought it was a good idear and to see if it was some thing to try freshen things up

Hog
04-04-2011, 09:39 PM
All these ideas are all very well, but when it's nigh on impossible to get much help putting the track out or away at the night's end then if you want to change it then you're going to have to be prepared to put the effort in.

And not just a few weeks and then gradually saunter off and leave it to the regulars because trust me that's not going to happen.

Week after week I call out for the last 2 heats to put the track away, and week after week it's the same old faces who do, and the same old faces who think it's a job that's below them. Sorry if this is harsh, but those that do are pretty sick and tired of those that don't.

And you want to make all these changes and have ply, astro and mopped floors?

Told you - easy answer - hard compound control tyre.
Easier answer - leave well alone and accept that the faster you go the faster things wear out.

As Alan says - perhaps it's time for some new blood to take the reins and let those of us who have been racing for 25 years enjoy our racing more without all the hassle.....

gav4wd
04-04-2011, 09:41 PM
I for one have spoken of the hate for yellow full spike saggers 3 weeks running in just to find they do not work or they come in only to find 2/3 weeks down the line they have gone off.
This seems to be a variant in the yellow compound not an issue with the race surface, the club has run on the wooden floor for years and i personally would not want to race every week on carpet, we need to try either minipins or minispikes from new to worn out and see how long they last how easy they work from brand new and if everyone is on them it's even racing, the power thingy is horse sh@@ i for one run a supercharged spedo but its turned down so much it's wasted in our hall even if we went to 17.5t someone willing to push the limits will find more power than the rest it's the nature of racing.

lets stop whinging buy some yellow minipins and test them

talking of tracks can we have one of those vertical jumps in a slow part of the track .

regards wooden floor racer ;)

crewie
04-04-2011, 09:42 PM
The thing is, you are adding to the list of things to do but no one has yet said they are actually willing to do them. Some one has to. The people that currently do cannot do any more and if im honest I don't want to. I think we do enough already. I actually quite enjoy doing it when once its done so many keep turning up every week but there is a limit to what can be done in such a short time for a club night.

The bottom line is if you want to go fast you are going to have to pay for the rubber no matter what the surface is. If you want it to be cheaper dont buy 60c cells and the latest gen electrics and go slower.

Just my thoughts

Dave

Hog
04-04-2011, 09:43 PM
Can't see Astro working either Scott unless it's secured to the floor.

Scenario 1 - Marshal runs out to a car, stops dead and the astro just keeps going......bit like the carpet does sometimes.

crewie
04-04-2011, 09:50 PM
Neil, have you got a pic of the jump you mean?

Hog
04-04-2011, 09:59 PM
the power thingy is horse sh@@


And quote of the week goes to Neil.......:thumbsup:

rc_penguin
04-04-2011, 10:23 PM
Not really sure what you want me to say wil, where you raced at the weekend is light years from our little village hall.

Maybe we can have a chat on wends night regards what you lot are saying and maybe i am geting to old to help run the club anymore and maybe it needs some younger people to take charge, not me throwing dummy out of pram just fact i think i am geting older and maybe i just want to take things a bit easier, we will see as don,t want to post any more on this subject as rather talk to a face.

Regards currant FORCC chairman Alan.

Sorry Alan, i think i my message came across a little different from what i thought it would :blush:. Was just saying that tires used on carpet aren't completely useless once slick as some people may think.
Only problem with the current surface is that full spikes is the only tyre that does work which isnt a problem, just the quality of them isnt as great as they used to be, anyway im gonna have a pop a 2wd, then its only the rear tyres :thumbsup:

branstonpickle
04-04-2011, 10:36 PM
if everyone at the club is happy the way it is then fair play its just good to see how ideas are meet with all the bad points about it before talking about what we could change to help people and try them.....

Hog
04-04-2011, 10:44 PM
I think the tyre quality isn't helping Jamie - and I know everyone isn't happy. The old saying about keeping everyone happy all of the time.......

Part of the problem is that other ideas could be trialled, if only it wasn't left to the few to sort it all out and carry out the responsibility for it each and every week.

As Crewie said, those that do, have enough to do already........

branstonpickle
04-04-2011, 10:55 PM
its not the tyers thats the problem we just talked about getting some carpet to give us a different surface and a new challenge to drive on and people just dont want to think about it the idear was to get outher people involved in the track building but when idears are meet with this much negativity whats the point..............

Hog
05-04-2011, 07:02 AM
I think you'll find it's more frustration than negativity.

We're all up for seeing the club evolve and succeed - but to do so it can't all be left to the same few faces to do everything.

It's the same problem every time - people want this, and people want that, and yet no-one wants to stand up and say "I'll do that".

As Alan said perhaps this is better discussed tomorrow night and over the coming weeks rather than cutting it dead here.

David Church
05-04-2011, 08:36 AM
This is a very interesting thread.

I used to race at FORCC a lot, I chose not to race there as I didn't get on with the surface. It was very much like hard work for me. It's a great club though:D.
I do think there is an issue with tyre quality at the moment. I have heard many racers complain about this. And this is with all Schumacher tyres.

There is no easy answer, yes more people should help put the track away! Shame on you that don't!!! You wana race, you show up and the track is ready, you race then go home and leave it to others to clear away!!! This is WRONG!!!!!

I prefer carpet to slippery floor, and have found the mini spike to be the better choice at the moment.

I am desperate for mid week racing around where I live! If you had a carpet track I would come race!

The only other answer is to get a venue where you don't have to put the track away:)

Hog
05-04-2011, 09:03 AM
The only other answer is to get a venue where you don't have to put the track away:)

First thing on the list Dave when I win the lottery :thumbsup:

Thanks for your input - interesting to hear that it's not just us with tyre quality issues. The set I'm running at the moment - some spikes have all but gone whereas others have barely worn! Very odd.

Rebelrc
05-04-2011, 10:47 AM
James had a set that the spikes wore on one side of the tyre and not the other they were like an egg lol

Team No Idea
05-04-2011, 11:10 AM
So surely we should be talking to schumacher about their tyres!!! rather than getting all aggy on here and changing stuff at the club where things have ran so well for so many years!

Hog
05-04-2011, 11:12 AM
So is the whole problem a quality control issue caused by Schumacher rather than an increase in wear due to ESC's etc?

Has anyone contacted Schumacher to see what they have to say?

Edit - great minds think alike Martin!

Rebelrc
05-04-2011, 12:15 PM
I always thought the club was inundated with help at the end of the night.
Apart from Elliot who stands there throwing balls of tape with the children! Lol!
Who's slinking off?
I even see people that don't race helping like Tony
Scott Dixon helps and he hasn't been in the A or B yet
If you need more help maybe we should have a meeting this week and no racing......I am up for that
Or maybe a simple register of drivers helping instead of bellowing would be more friendly ? If your not there then you loose your times. What do you think?
I would be up for helping with the track setup but don't want to be slagged off when it's not to someones liking ( that's happened before remember it's a small hall with lots of places you can't see in the pits but I can hear lol) so that makes me reluctant to get involved
Cheers
But I love the club as it is so don't get me wrong!

Hog
05-04-2011, 01:39 PM
There's plenty of people of regularly race in the top 2 heats Scott who have never seen the underside of the stage.....

And yes we do get a few that don't race that help - point is they shouldn't have to! There's at least 16 drivers that should be putting the track away, and that doesn't just mean dragging the odd tyre before discussing their last race, it actually means putting the track away, under the stage, in its correct place.

We don't want (and there shouldn't be the need) to run the club like a bunch of nazis and an "us and them" attitude. Everyone should be doing their bit to contribute at whatever level you compete.

Rebelrc
05-04-2011, 02:55 PM
I did my clubs track often on my own that's why we shut!
Well then Dave I hold my hands up and say that I have only been under there once and didn't have a clue what order to pack it so have alleys left it to the experts.:)

Tractor Boy
05-04-2011, 03:48 PM
Jamie please do not get me wrong on this i do not think your idear is crap and should be thrown out before you have had a chance to talk to us lot about it i just do not think i can give it the time it needs on this forum and as a club member you should have the wright to have your say.

I promise i will be talking to you in depth on wends regards your idears and anybody else who has some idears to put forward.

The club runs fairly smooth most of the time but from time to time we have things like this pop up but trust me boys and girls i love you all as without you there is no club and thats the last thing any of us want.

Regards, had a better day at work Alan

gav4wd
05-04-2011, 07:23 PM
like the one on the left side dave maybe a little smaller:thumbsup:
http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/petit2011/2wd/track.jpg

crewie
05-04-2011, 08:27 PM
Might not be this week but I will see what I can come up with. Im sure with what we have something similar can be achieved. Would deffo have to be on a slower bit of track as you said. :)

Rebelrc
06-04-2011, 09:24 AM
Elliot knows I am trying to wind him up lol

One way to lengthen tyre life is to get rid of the carpet sections completely
As it's this that wears them fast ,not the floor!

Dave, astro is no more likely to move on the floor than carpet is.
Cheers seeyou tonight

jkclifford
07-04-2011, 05:29 PM
put more chalk down make it really slippery, go back to mabuchi 540, tyres will last 5 years

David Church
07-04-2011, 06:54 PM
Shock oil works good:p

gddevey1012
08-04-2011, 10:55 PM
Hi Guys

I have been watching this thread with some interest but up until now decided not to say too much,

I just think the whole situation is blown completely out of proportion on this thread, Alan and the team work hard and yes as you say it may be time to look at new ideas but i feel that from what i have seen and my involvement with running other clubs that the loss of alan and his team would mean a VERY big backward step.

I have really enjoyed racing at faversham over the winter and would be a shame to see a club with so many youngsters comming through the ranks die off.

Now the subject of tyre wear is simple for those who want to go fast and have their boost ramped up to the maximum you have to accept that the tyres will wear quicker, for those who are happy to run a stock speedo or no boost and go slower you will save your tyres SIMPLES:thumbsup:

So to those who say make it manditory that all boost is turned off i ask who will police this as time is tight enough as it is let alone doing scruiteneering after each heat.

I say you make your own magic and with that in mind you have to accept that to go fast you will wear your tyres out, i ran my mini pins following maratime for a fortnight and loved it but found that sadly i was never going to be quick enough to even keep up with the guys in my heat let alone the better racers. so back to full spikes for me, one thing i can say is this i have used my set of full spikes with NO boost on the speedo for nearly 2 months and only now are they starting to die off.

Slate me if you like but thats my opinion i will just go back to my nitro hole now LMAO :thumbsup:

gav4wd
09-04-2011, 01:02 PM
After speaking to Al the trial for tyres will report what 2 diffrent tyres do from brand new to fubared, this is in no way to find a tyre better than full spikes (which you will not)but to find a tyre if so that you can run from new without the running in fun and if it lasts 3/4 weeks then that not far of full spikes life.
As far as the club going under can't see that myself with still 8 heats it's as big as it ever been Al and the team do a great job but the club is typical England loads of whinging and no action answer is if you want it done/changed, speak up, come up (idea) and do .thats simples!

adz
10-07-2012, 06:12 PM
hello people its adam cottrell im a new member of forcc and i been reading through this thred and i think as for the seting up and putting away of the track could we not do one week heat 1 set up or put away ect so then everyone has to do there bit of helping out its just a thought im up for helping setting up and putting away anyway aint that what a clubs all about

jkclifford
11-07-2012, 04:58 AM
Personally I think heat 1 should always put the gear away, poor old top heat which are knackerd after running about like blue arsed flies marshalling the first heat (who then sloath about marshalling heat 2) have to put the gear away as well.:woot::woot::woot: