Mad Rat front wheel binding problem

[damselfly]

I've just fitted some new wheelnuts on my car and notice that the front wheels bind severely if the nuts are only slightly tightened.
This happens with the original nuts too but I didn't notice at first.
Anyone know of a fix apart from having the wheelnuts loose?
Cheers.

[minke]

put in a shim or 2 before you put the wheel on, should stop it binding on the hubs.

[Cameo]

I've just fitted some new wheelnuts on my car and notice that the front wheels bind severely if the nuts are only slightly tightened.
This happens with the original nuts too but I didn't notice at first.
Anyone know of a fix apart from having the wheelnuts loose?
Cheers.

3 questions first
1. Whick car are we talking about?
2. do you have bearings or brass bushings?
3. Are the wheels the original ones or aftermarket?

You should never need to have loose nuts :p

[Dandare]

3 questions first
1. Whick car are we talking about?
2. do you have bearings or brass bushings?
3. Are the wheels the original ones or aftermarket?

You should never need to have loose nuts :p

1) I'll take a guess (clue in the title) & say it's a madrat :p
2) When i built mine all 4 wheels binded regardless of bushed or bb's.
3) I'll guess & say kit wheels.

Some say to put a shim in behind the pin prior to mounting the hex/wheel.
I can get the nut up just tight enough to not wobble yet not bind either.

Seems to be an in-built issue tbh.

[Battle_axe]

there is a way to solve this but it requires some fiddleing what you need to make is a crush tube so that it cannot squash the bearings together loading them like this means the bind up :thumbsup:

[damselfly]

I've tried putting a Teflon washer behind the pin ( in between the pin and the bearing ) and it's made no difference.
What's a crush tube by the way?
I also can't work out where the binding is taking place. Is it the bearings that are binding or is the wheel binding with the hub?
Cheers.

[markymark6183]

I GOT THE SAME PROBLEM WITH MINE:thumbdown:1

[DCM]

It is all because when you tighten the wheels nuts, your trying to squeeze the two wheel bearings together, putting an axial load on them, hence why when you slacken the nut off, they free up. Like has been said above, you need to make a spacer to sit between the two bearings so that when you tighten up the nut, it doesn't put a side load on the bearing.

[damselfly]

It is all because when you tighten the wheels nuts, your trying to squeeze the two wheel bearings together, putting an axial load on them, hence why when you slacken the nut off, they free up. Like has been said above, you need to make a spacer to sit between the two bearings so that when you tighten up the nut, it doesn't put a side load on the bearing.

Looking into the hub there's already an inbuilt spacer, so I can't see anything making a difference.
I've placed a small teflon washer in between the pin and the bearing, and a teflon washer on the axle between the large e clip and bearing. This has made a minute bit of difference but it's still unsatisfactory.
How Ansmann overlooked this beggars belief.

[DCM]

no, you need to put a spacer inbetween the bearings

you got a shaft with bearing like [] []
you need to fit a spacer like []=[]

On the rear axle (which I just done) you use the inner race from a 5x10 wheel bearing.

[gps3300]

Looking into the hub there's already an inbuilt spacer, so I can't see anything making a difference.


That "inbuilt spacer" only holds the bearing outers apart, a crush tube sits between the two inner moving parts of the bearings.

[adam_111]

do you know if any company has made an aftermarket solution? :confused:

[damselfly]

Right i've got you now. Thanks for clearing that up.
Do you know of a source for this crush tube or something similar that's up to it?
Cheers

[DCM]

you will have to make your own.

[damselfly]

I've decided to just throw the towel in with it now and revert to its original form. Just loosened the nuts and used green loctite on the axle threads.:thumbdown:

[Cameo]

1) I'll take a guess (clue in the title) & say it's a madrat :p
2) When i built mine all 4 wheels binded regardless of bushed or bb's.
3) I'll guess & say kit wheels.

Some say to put a shim in behind the pin prior to mounting the hex/wheel.
I can get the nut up just tight enough to not wobble yet not bind either.

Seems to be an in-built issue tbh.

Thanks for your constructive comment :confused: and I like your suggestion on helping this dude ;) NOT!!

I've decided to just throw the towel in with it now and revert to its original form. Just loosened the nuts and used green loctite on the axle threads.:thumbdown:

I have never had a problem however I use the pro cars.

The crush tube ppl speak of helps prevent over tightening only and could be helpfull if you have bearings.

Does it bind with the wheel off or only when its on? I really need to know if its bearings or brass bushings (It does matter and make a difference)

[Dandare]

Thanks for your constructive comment :confused: and I like your suggestion on helping this dude ;) NOT!!

First off chap i'm sorry you're unable to read, firstly the thread title, & secondly that i stated two things which i have genuinely experienced when i built mine , firstly i have read that some people have tried placing shims between the bb & the pin & secondly that the way i (crudely) overcame the problem was to simply do up the nuts to the point where they didn't bind but also had no slack (i believe these are called suggestions!)

The comment about mine binding firstly with bushes & also when upgrading to bb's was simply a factual statement.

[damselfly]

Thanks for your constructive comment :confused: and I like your suggestion on helping this dude ;) NOT!!



I have never had a problem however I use the pro cars.

The crush tube ppl speak of helps prevent over tightening only and could be helpfull if you have bearings.

Does it bind with the wheel off or only when its on? I really need to know if its bearings or brass bushings (It does matter and make a difference)

My car is fully ballraced. The binding only happens with the wheel on, and it binds with the wheelnuts only semi tightened. The only time the wheels don't bind is if the nuts are relatively loose, and as a result there's a fair bit of slop/play.

[DCM]

Then you need to make some crush tubes as said above, thats the only answer.

[Cameo]

My car is fully ballraced. The binding only happens with the wheel on, and it binds with the wheelnuts only semi tightened. The only time the wheels don't bind is if the nuts are relatively loose, and as a result there's a fair bit of slop/play.

Ok thanks. I agree the crush tubes are the best starting point to help solve the problem.

Now if you have 2 old wheel bearings you will be able to make some easily. The thing to do is cut the outter of the bearings away so your left with the inner part of the bearing case. It's the perfect size and goes directly between the two wheel bearings.

Something else you can try or do also is get the Alum hex set (http://www.teamcracing.net/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=307&category_id=16&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=71) (link) they lock down over the pin and sit up against the bearing.

[jpmatrix]

The reason it binds is that the plastic 12mm hex when tightened up really tight binds on the outer bearing.

You can stop this by getting some 400 grit sandpaper and sand the plastic hex on the pin side. That stops the binding on the bearing but then i noticed when i retightened it the wheel rim (hex part) was binding on the hub carrier. I just got a scalpal and cut the inner edge of the hex slot where the 12 mm plastic sits in.

Job done.

You can then tighten as hard as you can and it wont bind.

[OneKiwi]

Ok thanks. I agree the crush tubes are the best starting point to help solve the problem.

Now if you have 2 old wheel bearings you will be able to make some easily. The thing to do is cut the outter of the bearings away so your left with the inner part of the bearing case. It's the perfect size and goes directly between the two wheel bearings.

Something else you can try or do also is get the Alum hex set (http://www.teamcracing.net/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=307&category_id=16&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=71) (link) they lock down over the pin and sit up against the bearing.

so it goes in the hub carrier inbetween the 2 bearings
like this?

l1l

or wer you meaning it goes inbetween the wheel and hex?

[Cameo]

so it goes in the hub carrier inbetween the 2 bearings
like this?

l1l

or wer you meaning it goes inbetween the wheel and hex?

yes in the hub between the 2 bearings.
Order should be; bearing - crush tube - bearing - shim - pin - hex hub - wheel - nut.

[Cameo]

The reason it binds is that the plastic 12mm hex when tightened up really tight binds on the outer bearing.

You can stop this by getting some 400 grit sandpaper and sand the plastic hex on the pin side. That stops the binding on the bearing but then i noticed when i retightened it the wheel rim (hex part) was binding on the hub carrier. I just got a scalpal and cut the inner edge of the hex slot where the 12 mm plastic sits in.

Job done.

You can then tighten as hard as you can and it wont bind.

I would have thought this makes things worse becoause the little bit that you're sanding off is supposed to act as a spacer.

It's the same size as the inner of the bearing (the part that spins) so its designed to reduce friction.

However if there's too much there then I suppose it could/would bind. Maybe the solution is to take off some but not all?

[damselfly]

Ok, one of my vehicles using 5x11x4 mm bearings needed a bearing change, so I decided to take the inners out of the old ones and salvage some " crush tubes ". One bang with an hammer on the bearing while stood upright allowed me to get these out without any deformation. They are a perfect fit diameter wise, but they're about 1.5-2mm too long and will not allow both bearings to fit in the hub carrier simultaneously.
I will buy some bearings with a 2mm and 3mm width in the hope that I can make some that fit.
To date though, my venture continues.

[Cameo]

Ok, one of my vehicles using 5x11x4 mm bearings needed a bearing change, so I decided to take the inners out of the old ones and salvage some " crush tubes ". One bang with an hammer on the bearing while stood upright allowed me to get these out without any deformation. They are a perfect fit diameter wise, but they're about 1.5-2mm too long and will not allow both bearings to fit in the hub carrier simultaneously.
I will buy some bearings with a 2mm and 3mm width in the hope that I can make some that fit.
To date though, my venture continues.

Get a file and just file them down a little.
Glad we've almost sorted your problem :lol:

[damselfly]

I've not got a file or vice Cameo, so i'll just buy a few cheap bearings. Anything around 5x"x3 or 5x"x2 will fit admirably.
The " dimension is unimportant as that's the outside diameter of the bearing which gets disposed of.
I'll keep you in the loop re' my progress.

[Cameo]

I've not got a file or vice Cameo, so i'll just buy a few cheap bearings. Anything around 5x"x3 or 5x"x2 will fit admirably.
The " dimension is unimportant as that's the outside diameter of the bearing which gets disposed of.
I'll keep you in the loop re' my progress.

remember in needs to fit snug.
The idea is that when you tighten the wheel the inner part of the bearing does not flex or cave in.
Currently when you tighten it the bearings are changing alignment bowing in )( you need them to stay perfect II. The crush tube keeps them from "crushing in"

[nikos2002]

The aluminum hexes listed above will help to solve the problem, I would still recommend a washer between the pin and bearing for some extra support. A crush sleeve helps as well - but with alum hexes you can properly tighten the nut.

[damselfly]

Thanks Guys for the plethora of helpful replies.
I've sourced some 5x8x2.5 bearings which should make for perfect crush tubes in this application.
Gonna get myself some. Also gonna get myself some Aluminium hex's.
Will update this thread when i'm done with testing.:thumbsup:

[wrcallar]

Where did you get the bearings from in the end.... and you never updated your thread!!!! lol. Did it also work? Only my front left wheel seems to bind but it looks like its binding on the carrier.

[lordnikon]

Had this with the monkey too, same system so no surprise. I just got some 12mm hex fitments that clamp around the drive pin. When you tighten the wheel then you are tightening onto the hex and not the bearings. 100% fine now. Can get pics if needs be.