Novak 'L' motors..what differences will I feel?

[c0sie]

For example..if I ordered a 5.5R and a 5.5L and raced them back to back..same cells..same gearing..same tyres etc etc..what differences would I notice in efficiency, temperature and feel whilst driving in a 4WD car?

I would presume that the bottom end of an L is lot tamer than an R? Making it better for low grip conditions where you are still required to have alot of speed??

[Chrislong]

I would presume that the bottom end of an L is lot tamer than an R? Making it better for low grip conditions where you are still required to have alot of speed??

Correct!
In comparison, if a 5.5R feels like a 9x1, then the 5.5L feels like a 9x4.

If I was running a 5.5R in my car, then went to another track which was slippier, in the past I would have gone to a 6.5R to tame it, but now we have the 5.5L I would be able to use this, and it becomes very driveable in low grip yet top speed is still as quick as the R.

But, as it happens, I always find the 5.5R too aggressive for 2wd anyway so I run the 5.5L almost exclusively.

Chris

[ben]

I had a go with chris's 5.5l and it was really smoooooooooth. i liked it a lot:D

lil ben

[c0sie]

Cheers for that fellas.

I actually had a good read of the Novak specs on the Novak site and the figures make alot of sence (kv and watts)

Thanks for the explanation though :)

[RogerM]

Are the L's legal yet???

I'm waiting till they are to buy but will be getting 6.5L and 7.5L as soon as they are available.

[ben]

they are available. Couple of my freinds have already got them. Think peat at castle models has some.

lil ben

[Chrislong]

Are the L's legal yet???

I'm waiting till they are to buy but will be getting 6.5L and 7.5L as soon as they are available.

Hi Roger, this is a bit of a grey area. As the only difference on the spec listed by BRCA on the homog list between the L and the current Novak listed is the colour of the alloy sleeve around it.

I know CML are submitting one anyway.

I recommend you speak to your regional rep.

Chris

[super__dan]

Are the L's legal yet???

I'm waiting till they are to buy but will be getting 6.5L and 7.5L as soon as they are available.

7.5L is pretty steady away Roger.

Is this to compensate for nitro destroying throttle control ability? :D

[ben]

My 7.5 seems fast enough

[super__dan]

Ben,

I was just using it to crow bar in some banter with someone I've not seen for a long time.

[RogerM]

Dan ..... LOL ..... no I think your slightly wide of the mark (as I was at every apex at the MK GP .... is 2wd really that hard these days ... :o )

I currently only have a 5.5R and a 6.5 bonded LRP and would like to have all my motors from the same source as it's easier to make a selection based on that and the Novaks seem almost bullet proof.

The throttle control thing though mate doesn't quite stack up .... if anything I'm being too cautious and soft with the electrics as the power delivery is a bit savage compared to the OS and Go engines I used.

Dan, actually if I explain my thinking then maybe you could sense check it for me

4.5R ..... for simple high grip tracks with long straights in 4wd
5.5R ..... general 4wd motor & simple high grip long track 2wd motor
6.5L ..... general 2wd motor & when it all gets slippy and technical with 4wd
7.5L ..... 2wd motor for ice, glass and soaking wet nitro covered astro

Does that make sense? Would you go for all 4 or loose one end? I used to use 12x2 and 13x3 as my main motors (BRM) in 4wd and 2wd respectively. I have always prefered a smoother motor than a snappy one ..... would never find a single in my motor colletion!

[RogerM]

Ben, Dan and I know each other from way back ... the good old days of the RRCi championships before it became 1 heat for each class ... back in the days Dan lived in the land of the worried sheep.

Oh, on the motor front there is a difference between available and legal. I know there are no more BRCA championship races till the indoor finals but I don't want to buy a £80 motor to not be able to use them in 08!

[super__dan]

Roger,

Legality wise, I've assumed they were legal, I don't see why they wouldn't be but as ever PW is the man to ask.

Motor range wise I'd say,

4.5(any) unlikely to be used, only on a crap club/regional track that is far too big. At Southport, even with it's massive straight I had no plans to motor up from the 5.5R in 4wd because as the Novaks are sintered I just geared up a tooth, they tolerate a fairly wide range of gearing.

5.5R is unlikely to see the light of day in my 2wd now the L's are out because the R's have so much grunt that it's only ever going to make it more hard work getting on the throttle than the equivilent L motor. Having said that, the 5.5R is the bread and butter of 4wd, it just never get's changed. You're right that on wet astro perhaps a 6.5 might be better but even last year I don't think I ever did that (though it may have been wise).

5.5L likely to be my 2wd motor of choice for big tracks (Oswestry national for example, maybe Southport), controlable at the bottom end but winds up freaking fast in a 2wd.

6.5L is the motor I would run most of the time on any track up to and including a 'medium' in 2wd. Again the L over the R in 2wd just because it's smoother/better getting on the throttle. This isn't quite the fit and forget (that the 5.5R is in 4wd) but I imagine it will get run most of the time.

7.5 (any) I've only ran a couple of times, really nice and smooth and super efficient but if I'm honest I'm always tempted to motor up to the 6.5L. As you say slippy, cold wet astro (current outoor conditions) then this may be the best but I race indoors in the winter (girl - I know) I don't really know.

So I'd defo get a 5.5R to run almost exclusivley in 4wd and a 6.5L and 5.5L to run in the 2wd. If you're happy to get a 4th and do run in SUPER slippy conditions (or tight indoors) then a 7.5 could be good, but I've not tried the L version at all or used the R version that much so can't recomend here. I think you'd get more value out of a 5.5L for the 2wd than a 4.5 for the 4wd, also save on rear tyre bills ;)

Actually I remember reading someone else saying they thought the L motors have the bottom end of the next motor up(numerically) but the middle and top end of the same numbered R. So a 5.5L has the bottom end of a 6.5 but the middle and top of a 5.5.

Dan

[c0sie]

Roger,

Legality wise, I've assumed they were legal, I don't see why they wouldn't be but as ever PW is the man to ask.

Motor range wise I'd say,

4.5(any) unlikely to be used, only on a crap club/regional track that is far too big. At Southport, even with it's massive straight I had no plans to motor up from the 5.5R in 4wd because as the Novaks are sintered I just geared up a tooth, they tolerate a fairly wide range of gearing.

5.5R is unlikely to see the light of day in my 2wd now the L's are out because the R's have so much grunt that it's only ever going to make it more hard work getting on the throttle than the equivilent L motor. Having said that, the 5.5R is the bread and butter of 4wd, it just never get's changed. You're right that on wet astro perhaps a 6.5 might be better but even last year I don't think I ever did that (though it may have been wise).

5.5L likely to be my 2wd motor of choice for big tracks (Oswestry national for example, maybe Southport), controlable at the bottom end but winds up freaking fast in a 2wd.

6.5L is the motor I would run most of the time on any track up to and including a 'medium' in 2wd. Again the L over the R in 2wd just because it's smoother/better getting on the throttle. This isn't quite the fit and forget (that the 5.5R is in 4wd) but I imagine it will get run most of the time.

7.5 (any) I've only ran a couple of times, really nice and smooth and super efficient but if I'm honest I'm always tempted to motor up to the 6.5L. As you say slippy, cold wet astro (current outoor conditions) then this may be the best but I race indoors in the winter (girl - I know) I don't really know.

So I'd defo get a 5.5R to run almost exclusivley in 4wd and a 6.5L and 5.5L to run in the 2wd. If you're happy to get a 4th and do run in SUPER slippy conditions (or tight indoors) then a 7.5 could be good, but I've not tried the L version at all or used the R version that much so can't recomend here. I think you'd get more value out of a 5.5L for the 2wd than a 4.5 for the 4wd, also save on rear tyre bills ;)

Actually I remember reading someone else saying they thought the L motors have the bottom end of the next motor up(numerically) but the middle and top end of the same numbered R. So a 5.5L has the bottom end of a 6.5 but the middle and top of a 5.5.

Dan

Brilliant post :) Thats makes my selection process so much easier :)

[c0sie]

Actually
Dan, with regards to 4WD..

you say you would run a 5.5R 99% of the time in 4WD (as 99% of everyone else has also said) but what about it low grip conditions?

5.5L, 6.5L or 6.5R?

And finally, you say that you race indoors in the Winter (good choice!) but what motor would you use indoors for a 25m long track??

Thanks :)

[RogerM]

Nice work Dan ..... I think it has sold a few Novaks along the way.

Dan, would you be as kind as to finish the job off and put the gearing for the other motors in the "Brushless Knowledge Base" thread?

[strobe]

Really glad that Dan has put this info on this page. Made up my mind now what to put in me cars for next years racing. Going to put a GTB Spektrum ESC in both cars with a 6.5L in the 2wd car and a 5.5R in the 4wd car.

[showtime]

Really glad that Dan has put this info on this page. Made up my mind now what to put in me cars for next years racing. Going to put a GTB Spektrum ESC in both cars with a 6.5L in the 2wd car and a 5.5R in the 4wd car.


that pairing sounds like it would be the best choice ;)

[super__dan]

c0sie,

For a slippy track and 4wd then it really would depend on the conditions (and what motors you have). If it's just a bit slippy but a big track then the 5.5L would just take the edge off it. If you need something softer all round then dropping to the 6.5R should be good. A 6.5L should be VERY driveable in any 4wd worth its salt.

Regarding indoors I find it difficult to imagine a track from the numbers. What I would say is that it's unlikely you''ll need anything over a 6.5 in 2wd. I recently ran the 5.5L at Teeside (it was in the car at the start of the day) and new it was far too much (hard work on slippy floor) but was busy building an X5 and couldn't be bothered to change it. I know Little Ben ran a 7.5 and clearly wasn't slow as he finished quite high in the A. So perhaps less is more, especially on tyre wear ;)

All the above comments don't count for somewhere like Worksop, as that's the size of an outdoor track but indoors and pretty grippy. I've run both the 6.5L and 5.5L there, I know which is more fun but not sure which is quickest lap time wise :)

Roger I'm in Wales, remind me to reply after next weekend when back at home with cars.

When they are built/rebuilt for next year my 2wd will have the Spread Spektrum GTB and 6.5L/5.5L motors in it and the 4wd the Spread Spektrum GTB and 5.5R motor in, I think that will be great performing and reliable.

Dan

[MattW]

Legality on these could be a bit grey, best to check with the powers that be, although I'm sure if they aren't at this moment, there is no reason why they wouldn't be when submitted, and hence specifically added to the current list.

It's interesting how the different brushless manufactures have gone about offering tune ability for their motors. Novak, obviously by changing the winding and there for a new motor. Where as GM/Speed Passion (and Orion/Peak) simply change the rotor. LRP have kind of gone this route to a lesser degree. I understand there are some rotors "about" from them, but not currently available for sale, not 100% sure what the plans are there.

Not sure if either approach is better than the other or not, just seemed interesting!!!

[Body Paint]

ROG: For me it would be a 5.5R and 6.5L as first choice motors with a 5.5L as a soft option for 4wd or a crazy option for 2wd.

MARK: IMO you made correct choice there mate.

DAN: See if you can find a window at some point for drinkies;)

[AndyM]

does anyone know what pinion i should gear my 5.5R in my BJ4WE with a 81t spur?

thanks guys

[ben]

doesnt it say in the manual. It should have a gear chart?

lil ben

[Northy]

The "L" motors are not BRCA legal and should not be used at BRCA events. Have you been a naughty boy Brokeback? :p:p:p

G

[Body Paint]

does anyone know what pinion i should gear my 5.5R in my BJ4WE with a 81t spur?

thanks guys

19/81 will do you Andy

[Body Paint]

The "L" motors are not BRCA legal and should not be used at BRCA events. Have you been a naughty boy Brokeback? :p:p:p

G

If only you new how naughty Dan can be :o:p

[c0sie]

Mr. Harris,

What gearing do you run on your S4 at Newport??

[AndyM]

19/81 will do you Andy

thanks Craig!

[ben]

dirty danneth:o:o:D:D:p:p

lil ben

[super__dan]

The "L" motors are not BRCA legal and should not be used at BRCA events. Have you been a naughty boy Brokeback? :p:p:p

G

Maybe I have and maybe I haven't, maybe I'll tell you in the form of a song..................

http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/littlebritain/images/396/mccooney.jpg


I forget what motors I've run where, but I passed scuitineering every round at Teeside ;)

[super__dan]

Thought some might be interested by this. I swapped out the old faithful 5.5R at Worksop on the weekend for a new 5.5L Novak motor. If you don’t know Worksop it is a cork floor that has good grip but you need to be careful picking up the throttle, even a little in 4wd.

I ran the same gearing in the X5 as I did on the 5.5R and it felt great, a fraction easier at the bottom end but just as fast down the straight. I plan to keep using this motor over the 5.5R in the 4wd next time I’m there and probably the indoor finals.

So I still stand by my statement that in most conditions the 5.5R will be a fit and forget, but as I happen to have a 5.5L I will now likely change out for situations where picking up the throttle can be tricky so wet grass, wet astro, polished floor etc. In fact for anyone that likes a smoother motor (like the brushed triple, quads etc) then you may well prefer this motor anyway and therefore it will be fit and forget.

Dan

[Chrislong]

While I await a replacement R, I am using an L, and am quite convinced that I will be sticking to L motors at all meetings I can do so. From 1st April I may not even use another R motor, the L just feels so good in 4wd too (although I seem to get it far hotter)

Chris

[racdeaf]

so is it brca legal ?? as i am thinking of getting 5.5L or 6.5L

[Chrislong]

so is it brca legal ?? as i am thinking of getting 5.5L or 6.5L

Not til 1st April, so you will not be able to use the L's at THE BRCA REGIONALS at York, Durham and Indoor finals, club meetings you can, and after 1st April (once approved) at every meeting.

[racdeaf]

cheer thanks

[Chrislong]

Not til 1st April, so you will not be able to use the L's at THE BRCA REGIONALS at York, Durham and Indoor finals, club meetings you can, and after 1st April (once approved) at every meeting.

Sorry, I have some wrong information in my last post. The Motor list can be updated at any time, it is not refreshed at the 1st April like cells, so I will confirm once L motors approved ;)

[super__dan]

I know Charlie (from Novak) is in contact with PW at the moment so they should be added to the list shortly.

Tut tut Chris, how long have you been doing this now? ;)

[Chrislong]

Tut tut Chris, how long have you been doing this now? ;)


yeh yeh, I realise I 'should' know but I swear that I never did, and in all the time I have had 1st April in my head (and probably chatted about plenty of times before) nobody has corrected me until earlier today!

[RogerM]

Whilst having my daily look at the homologation lists (waiting for the 08 cell list) I happened to look at the brushless motor list and the "L" motors are now legal!!!!

http://www.brca.org/BRCA/elecboard/news/EB%2005%20Size%20Brushless%20Motors%20latest.doc


Just thought it might be of interest to somebody

[Northy]

Keep up at the back there man...... :rolleyes: We realised on Monday :p

G

[Southwell]

Well my nice new shiny 5.5R and 6.5l turned up today :D

[racdeaf]

i just purchased novak 5.5L for me b44 and it super smooth easy to use than my novak 4.5R motor
so pleased that it brca legal.

[Mike Hudson]

Arn't the 5,5R better for 4wd unless the track is really really slippy?

[Cockerill]

Have you read the thread? Both Dan and Chris (who are both Novak divers and have used the L's longer than most people) have said that they have found the L to be as good as the R at Worksop which is not 'really really slippy' and Chris said he may use it everywhere. So in answer to your question, No.

[super__dan]

Ah Young Tom, still not dead from alchohol poisoning yet then?

The R is the more agressive of the two, this can be utilised most of the time in 4wd, however for anyone wanting a smoother car even in 4wd the L might be good for them. As Tom says both Chris and I seem to prefer the 5.5L at Worksop, however this really is only a fraction, it wasn't exactly a problem at the 2 previous rounds where I used a 5.5R.

More interestingly what's a 5.5L and 5 cells like in 2wd? After Rich Lowe suggesting it's good I'm going to try it this weekend.

[RogerM]

Keep up at the back there man...... :rolleyes: We realised on Monday :p

G

Well thanks for being the caring sharing type G' ... selfish oink!!!! :D


Not really been checking the motors as I am a few pay days away from the start of the season yet so motors not as important as cells to me!!

[magnus]

Would you run a bonded or sintred rotor for a 6.5L in a 2wd? Should I bother to get at sintred rotor? It comes with a bonded rotor, doesn't it?

[Richard Lowe]

All the Novak motors are now sintered and have been for a while :)

It's only LRP/Nosram that are sticking with bonded rotors in their 5.5+


Dan I've run my 2wd with the 5.5L and 5 cells a few times now and it's just as fast, if not a bit faster than with 6 cells :confused: I'm guessing the reduced weight and wheelspin let it accelerate quicker. It's as fast from mid-throttle as my 4wd with a 5.5R in :D

[ben]

My 7.5 is nearly as quick :D:D:D:D:D

[super__dan]

In fairness that is rediculous though Ben, if it weren;t for your 4000 minute stints last weekend I'd swear it was a mis labelled 5.5 ;)

[ben]

haha. All i could hear was you behind me moaning and groaning lol. Dno why its so quick. It must be the speedo setup or something. I ran my 7.5 at all the nationals last year and it only lacks a bit of top end on some of the long straight-aways.

ben

[Chrislong]

It must be the speedo setup
ben

Hmmm, possibly, must have been done well whoever did it for you ;)

[Chris Green]

I've got a 6.5L for my B4 today. should it be geared similar to the R version?

[super__dan]

Yes, start from there and base it on track perfromance and temperature.

[markwilliamson2001]

Yes mate...
if it is getting very warm, just drop down a tooth on the pinion.

M.