Vintage Cat Re-built, almost ready to race... [Archive]

Dazzler

23-05-2011, 09:15 PM

Thought I'd post up a few pics of my Cat.. Then I'm going to get some electrics installed, and have a race or two with it..

I'm wondering how I'll fit everything in, given that the chassis space on this is not much dissimilar to my Durango, and the receiver from my JR Apex is almost as big as half a saddle pack! I must have managed it at some point. Of course leaving out the vintage radio is not an option! The oldest speed controller I have is a Novak Cyclone, not really old enough, but being small will help for now.

I would like to fit a nice Parma cat shell to this, so PM me if you have one.

I am also after the small plastic battery strap hook and a rear servo post as they are missing. I will probably have to sort something different to run the car, but would still like one.

kaszal

24-05-2011, 08:25 AM

That is one sweet build! Where will you run it?

Dazzler

24-05-2011, 08:40 AM

Thanks Kaszal,

It wiill most likely be a few runs at my local club, Telford Hot Trax, but I'll see how it goes. If it proves to be a bit of fun, maybe I'll give it a run out somewhere else..

cjm_2008

24-05-2011, 10:38 AM

imull

24-05-2011, 12:28 PM

Very nice! An alloy inner mount will finish it off a treat ;)

I've also got some vintage Tekin speedos (411s and the like) if you want to stay retro with the electrics? I love the JR Apex, esp with the flexi antenna.:wub

Ian

kaszal

24-05-2011, 12:35 PM

Hah, shameless plug ;) but yes, you definitely need an inner trans housing... like me!

Indeed, minichamps is a purveyor of quality vintage Schueys goodies.

isobarik

24-05-2011, 12:36 PM

There are 3 inner alu housings on e***.

mvh Isobarik

GRIFF55

24-05-2011, 12:52 PM

Very nice Dazzler!!!
imull, you have a message re. parts

Are they std gold part or have you had them anodized?

Dazzler

24-05-2011, 01:09 PM

Very nice Dazzler!!!
imull, you have a message re. parts

Are they std gold part or have you had them anodized?

MMS specials ;) the gold parts were on a car I had from D4ve on here, see my friends list, most of the guys that run at Telford hot trax many years back knew Alan Stewart owner of mms, and D4ve had these parts produced for him. So sort of standard vintage hop ups!

kaszal

29-05-2011, 08:57 PM

IMO the alloy z-bracket and alloy inner trans housing were the best mods for the rear gearbox (plus the slipper, alloy eccentrics and Bosscat diff!) but really they keep the gearbox and shafts true and the threads won't get stripped.

Dazzler

29-05-2011, 09:03 PM

How does the bosscat rear diff compare with the mms one?

kaszal

29-05-2011, 09:13 PM

It's sealed to keep dirt out, has an extra set of bearings and the pulley works with the hi-torque belts. Just sold one on eBay. The MMS one piece nylon is very strong but it doesn't have the alloy carriers and doesn't feel so smooth.

Dazzler

29-05-2011, 09:22 PM

Thanks, mine does feel nice and smooth at the moment, so I'll wait and see how it degrades with a bit of use, but I remember them being very good. Obviously with regular diff maintenance. I have some different rear belts than the standard black one, they look like Kevlar reinforced ones, they are a transparent orange colour, not as bright orange, and not solid coloured like the main belt you have.

What are the high torque belts like, I never had a boss cat, so no idea?

kaszal

29-05-2011, 09:26 PM

Ah, you must have some Wasp urethane belts. I think those are the standard MXL pitch but I'd like to see a photo. Been looking for some of those to try out. The hi-torque ones have a more rounded profile so less likely to slip I think.

Are you running a mild motor? Just think you might need a slipper to protect the drivetrain.

Dazzler

29-05-2011, 09:33 PM

I was thinking of running a 10.5 then wind in some timing advance. (that's if I opt for putting brushless gear in). Could also dial out some of the initial punch. Then just see how it goes...

I don't have a slipper to fit, so backing it off isn't an option.

I'll sort a pic out of the belts.. They are MXL, they say so :)

Car has the front end in bits at the moment, waiting for some different bearings to come ;) as I'm just fitting a few new bits myself.. :drool:

The pic reminds me, I need to cut the self tapping screws down on the layshaft bearing holders before I run it, they are not as close to the belts as the pics would make you think though.

kaszal

29-05-2011, 09:53 PM

Nice... the Wasp belts, like the long belt, can be run tight and are more hardwearing than the stock neoprene belts. I think they don't fray as much. Where did you get them?

Dazzler

29-05-2011, 09:58 PM

Unfortunately Kaszal, I don't have a miracle supplier, they were in a car I brought to strip for spares without even seeing it :thumbsup: As were spare MMS diffs and Layshaft.

Dazzler

29-05-2011, 10:10 PM

I also have this 'Z' mount fitted (MMS I believe) Will do the job I recon :)

gainsy

29-05-2011, 10:57 PM

I got 2 full sets of the battery straps & hooks that were left over from the bosscat i just sold, i also have a slipper, im pretty sure it is the bosscat 1 but will get Kaszal to confirm this for me when i see him next sunday, possibly also got a pro diff as well

Dazzler

29-05-2011, 11:07 PM

Ok, could be some use then! Just let me know what the verdict is on Kaszals examination.

I know WASP made a slipper to fit the MMS layshaft, which I'd like, but I bet I have more chance of digging up gold in my back garden than finding one of those. :cry:

The battery straps are just for when it's in standard trim really. In reality, I'll need to knock up a lipo retainer and straps for running it.

gainsy

29-05-2011, 11:13 PM

The straps you can have free, no use to me any more as i now run a B44
Happy to help out a fellow Cat lover :)
Pm me your address & i will post them to you Tuesday
Will let you know the outcome of the slipper
Cheers
Gainsy

Dazzler

29-05-2011, 11:31 PM

Ill take you up on that kind offer Gainsy, cheers! PM sent. :thumbsup:

gainsy

30-05-2011, 07:12 AM

Your welcome :)

Moozo

30-05-2011, 08:20 AM

I also have this 'Z' mount fitted (MMS I believe) Will do the job I recon :)
Yes this is a mms z bracket, had one on my procat back in the day!!!!

Nice looking car

Mick

kaszal

30-05-2011, 08:50 AM

Me too, it broke :bored: so I fitted the alloy one :)

gainsy

31-05-2011, 10:03 PM

This is what i have got

kaszal

01-06-2011, 06:53 AM

That's an excellent diff. Will you use in it your Cougar? Where's the pulley?

gainsy

01-06-2011, 08:14 AM

Morning
It was in my Cougar but i have stripped it to sell for parts :) it did go like a rocket though

gainsy

01-06-2011, 08:26 AM

Got these for sale as well, rear end is bosscat stuff apart from the shocks which are cougar

Dazzler

12-07-2011, 08:00 PM

I've fitted myself a WASP front alloy transmission housing. Nice..

And a rear Alloy housing (not pictured)

Then just thought I'd chuck up a pic of the front shock tower mod. The cut needs a little tidying for aesthetics, but the principle is there (as promised Kaszal)

:thumbsup:

gainsy

12-07-2011, 09:53 PM

Looking good mate
How's the slipper plan going?
Just bought another Cat :) a xls this time, needs lot's of work

Dazzler

12-07-2011, 10:00 PM

Yes, I thought you had brought one.. Cheap I believe!

The slipper plan, well the details are all down on a post it note.. (I'll call that progress!)

I've had a few set backs with some of the simplest things I've done - supplier issues, so lost a bit of momentum. But I've got plenty of time to get it right.

And I'm still on the lookout for a Parma shell.. Anybody got one??

gainsy

12-07-2011, 10:12 PM

Yeah £20 :)
Needs a new shell/undertray/wing/wing mount etc etc
Just stripped it down, needs a very good clean up but the belts/pulleys all look ok & have managed to get all the parts i needed for it in a trade for a set of the wheels :) just need a male driveshaft end
Will stick some before after shots up when it's looking better & had some fibre lyte added to it

john73

12-07-2011, 10:40 PM

Hi Gainsy

Is this the driveshaft part you need

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6024/5931897818_37149985f6.jpg

If so will stick it in the envelope for you

Cheers

John

gainsy

12-07-2011, 10:56 PM

That's the 1 John
Thank you very much
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

kaszal

13-07-2011, 08:33 AM

Then just thought I'd chuck up a pic of the front shock tower mod. The cut needs a little tidying for aesthetics, but the principle is there (as promised Kaszal)

:thumbsup: Thanks, could you explain for us the advantages of this mod?

ChrisC

17-07-2011, 11:50 AM

Sweet car mate....very nicely done!

kaszal

23-07-2011, 06:09 PM

Hey Dazzler, I've done something to my car that I think you'll recognise...

http://www.oople.com/forums/showpost.php?p=530467&postcount=174

You likey?

Dazzler

23-07-2011, 07:18 PM

Very tidy, didn't expect anything else to be honest..! have seen it done like that before, but not sure if the shocks will fit in both positions.. have you tried?

kaszal

23-07-2011, 07:26 PM

Thanks. You gave me the idea!

I havn't tried both ways but I didn't want to cut the main uprights. If I want to use the inner holes I can just put the old spacer back.

I'm hoping it will go over the bumps slightly better. We'll see at Stotfold tomorrow!

kaszal

11-09-2011, 11:43 AM

Daz, I'm sending you pm about some parts I'm selling

Dazzler

29-10-2011, 12:51 PM

I've acquired some more Cat bits and bobs... Most interestingly a WASP rear transmission, this is geared, rather than the usual belt configuration. It feels real smooth, with very little drag compared to the belts..

There is also a WASP Front Differential, I'll be taking that out soon for a closer inspection. This is encased in a WASP Front Diff Housing too. I believe the alloy crash back pivot brackets (Which are also aluminium items) are again WASP.

Kaszal is interested in taking a look, and hopefully others will be interested too. I've took some pics for all to see.

I've posted the articles in another thread with regards to WASP components, but I'm also attaching it here for completeness. I'm looking forward to running this one, but i'll be taking my time :thumbsup:

isobarik

29-10-2011, 01:34 PM

Dazzler

29-10-2011, 01:34 PM

I've dropped the front diff out, to my surprise, the ball bearings used are HUGE!

11/64" or lets say 4.4mm Diameter for the metric bods.. A little bit bigger than what we are used too.

It only has 6 fitted, could be to reduce rotating mass etc. not sure. Does anybody have a WASP Diff with assembly instructions? Or remember what was the done thing back in the day?

It's also got rather nice pressure plates..

I wonder if the diff in the rear geared transmission holds any surprises?

Dazzler

29-10-2011, 01:35 PM

very very sexy pics...

mvh Isobarik

Yes, those Durango pit mats sure are the business :lol:

Dazzler

29-10-2011, 02:55 PM

The rear diff had a few surprises, here are the pics.

For reference, It has 15off 3mm Diff balls and a standard thrust race assy, and you probably cant see from the pics, but the diff has two bearings either side, one large where the diff body runs on, and the inner which are as per a standard diff. :woot:

I've also included a couple of pics showing the Alloy front transmission housing and crash back / belt tensioning brackets.

That Buds Racing Products belt looks the business too... (Thanks Kaszal)

kaszal

29-10-2011, 03:17 PM

Awesome WASP goodies :drool:

Potentially, you could have the most bullet proof Procat transmission in the world :woot:

Will you go the whole hog and fit ceramic balls and bearings all round? roulementpassion on eBay France do a good range of rubber sealed hybrids. Might also be worth sanding those diff plates, depending on their state of wear. I sent mine to B-Fast for flattening/grinding and it makes a big difference. I use U1631 outdrives, which are excellent for locking the diff axles and keeping the thrust bearings sealed.

If you don't mind me asking, how did you come across such a rare find? I was just wondering also, do the gears need grease? I would suppose not otherwise it would get on the belt.

Great looking project you got there :thumbsup:

Dazzler

29-10-2011, 03:29 PM

Thanks for the Reply Luke,

I'll be taking myself a look at the roulementpassion e-bay shop for certain, as a couple of the bearings definitely need to be replaced.

I need to find myself something to prep the diff plates, as they don't have removable plates, and there is a centre spigot which would prevent it sitting flat on some wet & dry as per usual techniques... Maybe I need a piece of class with a hole in the middle... A small bridge to cross. Because of this, I'm not sure B Fast would grind them.

I may put the tiniest amount of Tamiya Ceramic grease on the gears, as you say, I don't want it on the belt. I also don't want it mixing it up with dust and dirt to make a grinding paste..

I'll take a look at the out drives you are suggesting too, I'm sure they're listed in your ongoing post, but maybe you can advise which chassis they originate from, and advise on the availability.

kaszal

29-10-2011, 03:52 PM

U1631 appear to be stock at Schumacher. I think they're from the Big 6. You might need to dremel the front suspension uprights to use them. The disadvantage is that they shorten, and therefore increase the angle of, the driveshafts. However, there is no need for an M3 nut as the whole thing is a plastic locking nut... so the diff never comes undone.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m134/kaszal/IMG_0874.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m134/kaszal/IMG_0991.jpg

The bearings I have are Abec 5 ceramic hybrid with nice blue seals (spot the front axle crush spacers)

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m134/kaszal/IMG_1474.jpg

Dazzler

29-10-2011, 03:56 PM

Some nice fresh plastic out drives might be the order of the day with this high torque gearbox. Thanks for that.

I presume the thrust races are available too then?

kaszal

29-10-2011, 04:04 PM

They do the thrust bearings too but there are probably cheaper on eBay.

You might need two packs if the diff axle is 1/8" (3.1mm)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BUTEE-BILLES-ACIER-3x8x3-5-F3-8G-THRUST-BEARING-/110716937508?pt=FR_YO_Jeux_RadioComRobots_Vehicule sRadiocommandes&hash=item19c73e6524#ht_801wt_1110

I noticed the slipper spur is a bit worn, would it take an RW supalite spur?

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m134/kaszal/IMG_9727.jpg

Dazzler

29-10-2011, 04:44 PM

Luke, The spur is well past its best. I've only put it on to keep all the slipper parts together. I'm told the WASP Slipper isn't much use really, but I will be looking at modifying some other slipper plates to put on there (Larger diameter / friction bearing surface) and then a suitable spur. I would say the RW Superlight spur would fit, but it might just melt. I won't be able to use the boss cat slipper for obvious internal reasons.. I might try one though, what's the worst that could happen :woot:

kaszal

29-10-2011, 08:11 PM

You could also replace the nylon posts with brass ones like these...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M3-Threaded-PCB-Spacer-Stand-off-25mm-Pack-4-/300606248885?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Suppl ies_ET&hash=item45fd8757b5#ht_1685wt_905

I'm not sure if 25mm is the correct length

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m134/kaszal/IMAG0299edited.jpg

Dazzler

29-10-2011, 08:22 PM

I've pushed the boat out and brought some... :lol: you've got a good memory, I've measured up and the 25mm posts will be just nice.

masons01

31-10-2011, 01:09 PM

Hi guys, it brings back many memories looking at these photos. I remember being in the engineering works making spur gears, stacking all those wheels and building gearboxes.
Next time i'm at my mum and dads house i'll see if there are any other cat bits.

Good to see the Wasp stuff is still out there and that most of the things said about it are good.

Thanks to Dazzler for PM ing me to have a look

Mark

kaszal

06-11-2011, 07:55 PM

Wow, the WASP geared transmission was a nice piece of engineering. Do you know how many were sold? Must have been expensive to buy back in the 90s. I wonder are there any others still around? This is only the second one I've seen.

Dazzler

06-11-2011, 08:35 PM

I think there will be quite a few around really, just stuck in sheds and garages...

The rear geared transmission was £78.00 new from WASP, and the slipper clutch was £22.00. The geared transmissions were available for cougars too for the same price...

This stuff is all in the mags from 1990.

Just flicked through to check this out and found some tip and tricks type sections for the Procat, when I get chance, I'll try and get them posted up so you can feast your eyes!

kaszal

06-11-2011, 08:38 PM

Yes please, thanks Daz.

Hah, in 1990 I was doing my GCSEs I think.

imull

07-11-2011, 03:52 PM

I was going to ask how the build was going, I never had it apart so I'm amazed by the engineering involved! :wub

Dazzler

08-11-2011, 09:59 PM

Ian, the build is taking one step forward and two back at the moment... As it needs a little tlc to sort a few notchy bearings and surface corrosion to diff balls. But no big deal, just they are not something I have to hand, so need to get round to ordering what I need.

I've brought Kaszals orange Procat shell from him, so I have that to use, and I'm deciding what exactly to order from team bluegroove so I can combine postage on shells, undertrays, wings and belt covers for a few projects...

Peakey

21-09-2014, 01:27 PM

Now this is a thread revival !! How did you get on with then front diff daz did you run it? And did you replace all the diff balls?

Dazzler

21-09-2014, 09:14 PM

I have run the car briefly, but not properly. But with regards the diff balls, I remembered that we quite often run diffs with half the balls removed (every other one) to reduce the rotating mass. And it was fine back in the day. Of course, that means it would be fine now, unless you want to run a hotter variety of brushless motor. And in that case - you would need to see how far you can go..

These projects are still maturing with age.... I've collected a few new bits, got the shells I want, and then - that's about it! Work work work... There's no rush :woot:

Peakey

22-09-2014, 10:05 AM

Mature!! your gonna look at them one day and there will be nothing but a pile of dust :woot:

I've just ordered some new diff balls anyway so I have some to hand. How did you get on honing the thrust plates ?

And last question for now do you know who made that chassis as I've just found one similar and am thinking of basing a xls on it.

Dazzler

22-09-2014, 09:24 PM

Mature!! your gonna look at them one day and there will be nothing but a pile of dust :woot:

But it will be a pile of dust heaped in history...:thumbsup:

I've just ordered some new diff balls anyway so I have some to hand. How did you get on honing the thrust plates ?

Erm.... :blush: still on the to-do list. But I have an old glass shelf with a hole drilled in it to clear the centre spiggot, a sheet of wet and dry placed on there with a little light 3in1 oil to keep it in place, and some on the abrasive surface to keep the plates moving freely whilst lapping them in - this will do the job when I get round to it.

And last question for now do you know who made that chassis as I've just found one similar and am thinking of basing a xls on it.
It's a standard Schumacher chassis...

Hope that helps you out..