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View Full Version : Mid South 4wd Regional 12/6/11 Silverstone RCMCC


spenner
07-06-2011, 10:31 PM
BRCA Mid South 4wd Regional - round 2
Silverstone RCMCC - Sunday 12th June



Venue address:
SilverstoneRCMCC
Silverstone Recreational Association
Church Street
Silverstone
Northamptonshire
NN12 8XA




Times
Gates will be open from 7am.
If drivers could book in on arrival this will make things easier, Booking in will close 9.30am.
Track will be open from 7.45am, Drivers briefing 9.45am.
Heat 1 on the line 10am


Cost and Booking In
The cost to race for those who are pre-booked is 10, booking in on the day is available at the cost of 15 (Regional entrants). The open classes (2wd buggies) are all 5 to race pre-booked - 10 on the day. All booking in is on the DMS Results website here - www.dmsresults.co.uk (http://www.dmsresults.co.uk)

Facilities and Track
The track is 99% astro with a rubber surface section. Mini spikes are the favoured tyre (Schumacher/Fastrax) And we have also found Dboots work well too.

Pitting area will be marked out so please follow directions, there is also a strict 5mph speed limit across the field. Anyone breaking this will be asked to leave!!!


You will need to bring a generator or 12 volt suply for power. Please place generators with consideration for others


As per BRCA rules, all LIPO batteries being charged MUST be inside a recognised LIPO sack (or similiar), anyone found not using one will be asked to leave (you have been warned)...

PT's must be used

Trophies will be awarded for overall TQ, first place in all 4wd finals (BRCA regional class) - there are no trophies for the open classes

If anyone is looking to practice for the EOS F2's then book in for the 2wd class. The club does have Fastrax tyres available for sale, please see a member of the club.


Booking In - www.dmsresults.co.uk (http://www.dmsresults.co.uk)
Club Website - http://www.silverstonercmcc.co.uk
Any questions can be posted here, or feel free to PM if you need to
Hope to see lots of you there!

Darren Boyle
08-06-2011, 10:21 AM
Trophies will be awarded for overall TQ, first place in all 2wd finals (BRCA regional class) - there are no trophies for the open classes

Really, I thought it was 4wd this week ;)

(come on John at least proof read it after you have copied it :D LOL)

spenner
08-06-2011, 11:05 AM
Really, I thought it was 4wd this week ;)

(come on John at least proof read it after you have copied it :D LOL)


Just making sure your all aware!!!!

Perhaps you could save a 2wd and 4wd template on the dms site ?? Makes things soooooooooo much easier..

Darren Boyle
08-06-2011, 12:17 PM
Just making sure your all aware!!!!

Perhaps you could save a 2wd and 4wd template on the dms site ?? Makes things soooooooooo much easier..

LOL, all jokes aside I do have a 4wd one and a 2wd saved on my computer, I can email it to you if you wish for your next round in a few weeks time

mattybucks
08-06-2011, 12:29 PM
Will the be any shops this weekend for purchase of r/c related items?

Darren Boyle
08-06-2011, 12:39 PM
Think you may be spoilt for choice, we should be going, I believe Simon and the crew from RC Lazy are going too plus apparantly the club now sell some tyres too.....

_sleigh_
09-06-2011, 12:16 PM
Is there free practice before qualifying starts?

Darren Boyle
09-06-2011, 12:27 PM
Is there free practice before qualifying starts? Not for you :p (you found it then)

simoncrabb
09-06-2011, 03:55 PM
Think you may be spoilt for choice, we should be going, I believe Simon and the crew from RC Lazy are going too plus apparantly the club now sell some tyres too.....

Yep, we'll be there, doing our thang.

Looking forward to it, I like the Silverstone track. :thumbsup:

spenner
09-06-2011, 08:56 PM
Free practice, but we put the timing on so you can hear your laps....

MK Racing
10-06-2011, 06:36 AM
Just a heads up for any one planning on using the A43 Sunday, it is Moto GP at Silverstone, there are signs up saying expect delays, so may be worth leaving a little earlier in the morning to miss the traffic;)

budgio
10-06-2011, 06:04 PM
:(
http://www.metcheck.com/V40/UK/FREE/dayforecast.asp?zipcode=silverstone&day=2

makinwaves
10-06-2011, 06:13 PM
Time for the Lazy goo to make an appearance!

:)

budgio
11-06-2011, 08:32 PM
The forecast seems to be a little better now
http://www.metcheck.com/V40/UK/FREE/tomorrow.asp?zipcode=silverstone

InsideLineModels
11-06-2011, 08:48 PM
I think it must have changed again in the last 15 minutes :(

DaSloth
11-06-2011, 09:40 PM
positive thoughts! it wont rain! :)

mikeyscott
12-06-2011, 04:12 PM
Many thanks today, even thought it got rained off :(

Can someone still post the results etc. or email them to me please?

Smartalec
12-06-2011, 04:43 PM
Correct decision by the organisers today to call it off because of the rain I think as the standing water was getting worse and effecting more and more peoples electrics.

It didn't benefit me in any way as I only had the one run LOL, but that's racing.

I think the cost to the normal racer in the event of water damage is by far more important so cancelling gets the thumbs up from me :thumbsup:

mikeyscott
12-06-2011, 04:52 PM
Indeed it can add up when it goes wrong / gets wet.

Also as someone who runs a club. Driver and marshal safety..

Chucking it down in Southampton with some very big puddles.

mattybucks
12-06-2011, 05:16 PM
I still had a good day despite the weather. Well done to the silverstone crew for putting on a really good even though it was wet meeting.

chuckie stella
12-06-2011, 07:38 PM
Hi chaps, thank you all for coming today and leaving kind messages even though I'm sure you're all disappointed with the meeting being cut short.

Just incase there are any people who may want to view their opinions about why they were unhappy with the decision today, i just wanted everyone to know why the decision was made. I'm not saying that everyone should like it, but unfortunately it's not down to everyone otherwise we would've took a vote which I believe would have caused all sorts of problems/disagreements. However, I like the fact that people don't always agree and am more than happy when people voice their opinion. The reasons were:

Safety (marshalling in particular)
Cost to competitors (6 speedos blew in round 3)
Track was only going to get worse (fact)

Not many tracks I know of would've coped with constant, relentless rain over such a long period.

Thank you all again for coming, it makes all the hours and hours of hard work making the track fit for racing worthwhile.

Cheers, Matt
SRCMCC

mikeyscott
12-06-2011, 08:01 PM
Fair point re blown kit. One of our crew's Sanwa radio stopped working.

Gonky
13-06-2011, 09:57 AM
Despite the weather i had some good fun yesterday... was a shame the meeting had to be called off but i understand the reasons for it!

Maybe those people suffering from wet electronics should have invested in some lazy goo! :thumbsup:

Swiss
13-06-2011, 10:10 AM
doesn't anyone know the finishing top ten?

simoncrabb
13-06-2011, 11:17 AM
I was loving yesterday, the track was very nice, flowed well, clean and challenging.

No reported problems with Lazy Goo users, but we were absolutely in agreement with calling it off, the forecast was very accurate.

Darren Boyle
13-06-2011, 12:01 PM
Sadly seeing how wet it was in practise, only ever getting worse, then forecast to get even heavier later is why I opted (along with a few others) not to even begin racing.

I felt as a shop owner it is too easy for people to say "its OK for you, you get your stuff at cost/free etc" so felt the best example to set was to not particiapate (even though I had a waterpoof ESC fitted).

It is always a shame when the weather screws up the racing and I bet that come our next meeting (indoors) it will be red hot and sunny again outside knowing our luck when we are all inside....

The only thing that baffles me is why oh why can we not just fall back on the already scheduled "reserve date" that we set and discussed (August 21st) which is surely there for these very occasions. All the politics and bull**** saying that "BRCA rules state" we have started the meeting so the results stand, to me is just rubbish. There were several very "random" results coming from yesterday. some people much higher than they would normally be, others with mechanical or water problems much lower and the WHOLE series, the entire year, will now be affected with this result included. It makes a mockery of the whole yearly regional season to me....

I know I was asked to come over and vote at race control (as head of one of the clubs in our area), but was very busy helping out two customers with ESC's that had blown up at the time so couldnt, my vote was clear (to cancel - since I did not even start myself at the beginning of the day) but I was not happy to hear the "BRCA rules state this or that" politics emerging out of the discussion that took place.......

It seems these "rules" get offered when it suits at present and ignored at other times..........

TheReferee
13-06-2011, 01:06 PM
iwas not at the event so cannot comment on what did or did not happen, as for quoting the rules i usually find very few people actually know them.

below is the section on cancelling events.

19. CURTAILMENT OF EVENTS
19.1 National Championship events can only be abandoned by a majority vote of the Committee members
present, after consultation with the Race Director. Other Sanctioned events may be abandoned by the
Race Director in consultation with the Organisers.
19.2 At abandoned events, scores from any Rounds or Finals can only be used if all heats in the
respective Rounds or all Finals have been completed. The overall qualifying positions after the last
completed round at the time of abandonment, will count as final positions with the corresponding points
being counted towards the Championship, providing a minimum of two rounds have been completed.
Where Round-by-Round qualifying has been chosen the positions will be determined as per. rule 15.25.
19.3 At abandoned events where less than two rounds of qualifying have been completed, the event will
be declared null and void and no results declared. National events will not be re-scheduled and any
relevant championship qualification will be reduced accordingly (i.e. if there were 4 rounds to count from 6,
then one abandoned event would mean there are 3 rounds to count from 5, etc.).
Regional events can be rescheduled (subject to 6.5) at the discretion of the Regional Rep. If an event is
rescheduled to use a date not originally specified for any Class, then the number of events to count for the
Regional Championship in that Class will be reduced accordingly, to allow competitors to achieve the
minimum number of events using the original dates only.
If the normal Tie Deciding system of highest points does not achieve a result, then the highest Qualifying
position at the last event in the Series for the Class will be used to decide the tie.

As darren says there is little point having a reserve date if you are not going to use it, if there was any doubt that you could complete two rounds then the race director should have stopped the meeting before it even started, equally once two rounds are complete its a meeting and therefor scores for the series.

as for voting to cancel that only happens at nationals and voting is the committee only, at a regional it is the race directors decision after consultation with the organisors, the racers do not get a choice!, so i am not sure why any voting took place.

bottom line is it is up to the race director to race or not because if it all goes horribly wrong he is carrying the can or the lawsuit.

john

Darren Boyle
13-06-2011, 01:32 PM
John, just to clarify, I am not knocking the club in any way. The weather is totally beyond their control naturally.

It started to rain throughout practice, and progressively got heavier and heavier. They endured 3 rounds (just about) of racing then it got halted due to the severity of the puddles etc. After several ESC's going bang (I counted and looked at myslef more than the number mnentioned of 6), all heads of clubs were asked into race control to "vote" (decide if you wish) whether to continue or not. I did not attend on behalf of Watford due to reasons above but passed on my thoughts that it should be abandoned. What I am questioning is why oh why can we not just simply re-run this event on the already set "cancellation date" we have pencilled in, in our Mid South Calendar on Auguest 21st. It is on the entry form, ALL racers who have booked in have been made aware of this date - via the booking in form (to avoid holidays etc in advance), it is there for dasy juts like this, lets use it.........

mattybucks
13-06-2011, 01:33 PM
The racers did not get a vote, the organisers/race director made the decision to abandon the race, which in my opinion was the right one.

I know yesterday conditions were not ideal, however it's all part of racing, you never know how the weather is going to effect it, but it's the same for everyone.

Darren - Why should we re-run the event in august? The rules state two rounds, we did three. The decision was made yesterday it's not really on to change it to cancellation and re-run today.

TheReferee
13-06-2011, 01:59 PM
i am not knocking anyone just making people aware of the "actual" rules rather than best guess or an old copy.

once you got passed two rounds you had a meeting and thats that.

The decision to abandon is up to the race director after consulting the organisors, now how you decide the term organisors is tricky, are we refering to the silverstone committee or the organisors of the mid south series, either way the race director makes the decision, he could have got a vote of carry on from the "organisors" he can still call it off as its his neck on the chopping block.

john

Swiss
13-06-2011, 02:01 PM
Yep totally agree with you MattyBucks. Great event, weather was unfortunate but we have all been their before.

Thanks to Matt, John and the rest of the crew. Good stuff.

Darren - Random, I have been to some Regionals before and seen some random results!!!!
Instead of publicly moaning about the event, we should be supporting the Stone in difficult conditions under difficult circumstances. I am sure it was a very tricky decision to make the call. Let the guy's know at the time, then move on.

RoyalCBR
13-06-2011, 02:26 PM
I had a great time, and my first outdoor event on astro turf - made even more trickier as it was tipping down!!

But I would have liked to have carried on (I was a goo-ier), but totally understand the reasons why it was called off as RC is an expensive hobby at the best of times.

All I can add, please can we have some more events at the Silverstone track Matt or John? It was fantastic :thumbsup:

Cheers, Mark

RudeTony
13-06-2011, 02:39 PM
I do not wish to become part of arguments in our region as I think it's doing just great but I don't agree with the meeting being cancelled the way that it did and these are the reasons why

Facts
We are next to Silverstone racing track that probably have the best weather predictions in Europe.
We ALL knew that it was going to be wet before getting in our cars at approximately 6.0am in the morning to go racing.
We all knew it was going to be raining from the moment it started in practice.
In my opinion this was the ONLY time we could of cancelled and re-run on another day.
Throughout the day we were rushing to avoid the big rain forecast for late afternoon so the decision to run was made in my opinion.
At no point through the day did we even mention that we may call it a day and abandon.
The track in round by round rules could of been changed to avoid any puddles if needed to be. (I thought the track was real good under the weather conditions anyways)
None of this was done and now we want to change it all.
From my personal point of view I decided to race and I waterproofed everything like one should under those conditions.
Darren decided not to race and that is fine too.
David Burton as you all know one of the most experienced racers around did not waterproof and paid the price. I can use his name with no one arguing!! LOL - some other possibly too did not bother - LC Lazy was offering stuff that helps - I didn't see many taking the option......
If people did not take the right precautions then what do they expect?

As for results Darren - they are not listed so can't make a comment.
Ps - I will also add that I had a new set of tyres ready for the finals as normally that is where the points are scored. If I knew we could possibly finish earlier I may of chose to use them and qualify higher. This is what happens when we don't inform everyone what may happen - no ones fault as such but just shows that everyone has a different opinion and at the end of day I just think finish what you started - the F1 in Canada did just that and what a race that was - LOL

Darren Boyle
13-06-2011, 02:54 PM
Yep totally agree with you MattyBucks. Great event, weather was unfortunate but we have all been their before.

Thanks to Matt, John and the rest of the crew. Good stuff.

Darren - Random, I have been to some Regionals before and seen some random results!!!!
Instead of publicly moaning about the event, we should be supporting the Stone in difficult conditions under difficult circumstances. I am sure it was a very tricky decision to make the call. Let the guy's know at the time, then move on.

Paul, I am not moaning at all (or arguing), I am on the side of the club here, Matt has asked for opinions of those who "disagreed" with the cancellation, I thought it was the right choice.....

I could not tell you who was in the top ten and who was not tbh, but by the comments I heard yesterday, several people who would "expect" to be in there were'nt due to DNF's, hence the word "random" for the results...

What I am stating is that at the clubs meeting we sit down and discuss a date for cancelled events, so if they get abandoned, we can re-run on that date. We have done this and now are not using the date that is set, rule 19.3 from John below states for regionals this can be done

"Regional events can be rescheduled (subject to 6.5) at the discretion of the Regional Rep. If an event is
rescheduled to use a date not originally specified for any Class, then the number of events to count for the
Regional Championship in that Class will be reduced accordingly, to allow competitors to achieve the
minimum number of events using the original dates only."


People would rather race, than not race, so this "extra" meeting would allow them to race. Speaking to Matt, he "did" want to use the extra date and re-run but was told he could'nt. despite the rules for "regionals" saying it is at the discretion of the club and rep....

It was discussed at the time and I have spoke with Matt Owen (breifly) today about it too.

Matty, as I have mentioned the clubs agree on a date to "re-run", the "decision" was taken yesterday and will stand and be final I am sure, but it did not need to be in my opinion, it "could" have been re-run on the date set aside. For those who dont get what I refer to here is the booking in form (http://www.stotfoldmcc.co.uk/files/Regional_entry_form_2011.pdf) look at the top right underneath the dates, it reads -

"Please note. In the event of a rescheduled meeting
August 21st has been allocated."

Darren Boyle
13-06-2011, 02:57 PM
I do not wish to become part of arguments in our region as I think it's doing just great but I don't agree with the meeting being cancelled the way that it did and these are the reasons why

Facts
We are next to Silverstone racing track that probably have the best weather predictions in Europe.
We ALL knew that it was going to be wet before getting in our cars at approximately 6.0am in the morning to go racing.
We all knew it was going to be raining from the moment it started in practice.
In my opinion this was the ONLY time we could of cancelled and re-run on another day.
Throughout the day we were rushing to avoid the big rain forecast for late afternoon so the decision to run was made in my opinion.
At no point through the day did we even mention that we may call it a day and abandon.
The track in round by round rules could of been changed to avoid any puddles if needed to be. (I thought the track was real good under the weather conditions anyways)
None of this was done and now we want to change it all.
From my personal point of view I decided to race and I waterproofed everything like one should under those conditions.
Darren decided not to race and that is fine too.
David Burton as you all know one of the most experienced racers around did not waterproof and paid the price. I can use his name with no one arguing!! LOL - some other possibly too did not bother - LC Lazy was offering stuff that helps - I didn't see many taking the option......
If people did not take the right precautions then what do they expect?

As for results Darren - they are not listed so can't make a comment.
Ps - I will also add that I had a new set of tyres ready for the finals as normally that is where the points are scored. If I knew we could possibly finish earlier I may of chose to use them and qualify higher. This is what happens when we don't inform everyone what may happen - no ones fault as such but just shows that everyone has a different opinion and at the end of day I just think finish what you strted - the F1 in Canada did just that and what a race that was - LOL


Spot on Tony...

mattybucks
13-06-2011, 02:59 PM
Ps - I will also add that I had a new set of propellers ready for the finals as normally that is where the points are scored.

For once I agree with everthing you said Tony, we all knew it was going to be a wet one. If the meeting was going to be cancelled it should have been done at the drivers breifing stage.

The Silverstone crew made the decision to run, therefore the people who wanted to run did. I didn't waterproof anything. I just ran with the car with some foam in the front to soak up any water.

Darren - in regard to the following -
I could not tell you who was in the top ten and who was not tbh, but by the comments I heard yesterday, several people who would "expect" to be in there were'nt due to DNF's, hence the word "random" for the results...

Racing is not just about getting the car around the track, it's about preparing the your car as well. If we have a heatwave for the DMS regional, and we start seeing a large number of people's cars overheating what would they do for the next round? - Probably turn everything down, and run a milder motor.

TheReferee
13-06-2011, 03:20 PM
if i understand darren correctly you wish to re run the regional?

put simply no you can't. the meeting went over two rounds and was therefor a "meeting" for scoring purposes.

can you use the reserve date for an "extra" regional?

not sure, the rules currently in force assume a meeting gets abandoned before two rounds and is null, if you have no reserve date you cannot add one, you simply drop from 3 from 4 to 2 from 3.

if you run all the regionals and then use the reserve date as an extra would you go from 3 from 4 to a 4 from 5? or go 3 from 5?.

having had a look at the rules i cannot see one that says you can't or what you do about the 3 from etc.

however should a driver who is lets say in a regional f3 position on the 3 from 4 having scored well at the silverstone meeting drop down to f4 with the inclusion of the extra meeting would he have grounds to protest? as he has probably lost his guaranteed national entry for the following season.

best bet would be to run it past paul worsley and then i really think you need to ask the drivers, you have plenty of time to get it right. worst case scenario is you run a meeting which you should not have done and all the mid south results are discounted for national ratings!!.

john

Darren Boyle
13-06-2011, 03:23 PM
Darren - in regard to the following -
I could not tell you who was in the top ten and who was not tbh, but by the comments I heard yesterday, several people who would "expect" to be in there were'nt due to DNF's, hence the word "random" for the results...

Racing is not just about getting the car around the track, it's about preparing the your car as well. If we have a heatwave for the DMS regional, and we start seeing a large number of people's cars overheating what would they do for the next round? - Probably turn everything down, and run a milder motor.

Not sure what your point is Matt, if we have a heatwave and are indoors in the shade then we wil be cooler than if we were outdoors in the direct sunlight???

I only mentioned the results since Alec said he had only done 1 run due to the conditions, the "weather" prevented drivers like him being were he woul;d have hoped to be, I guess Dave Burton could be included in that too from Tony's comments also. The rain (which is unavoidable) shakes up the results with more people than expected getting DNF's, as you said yoursefl a bit of foam and your car was "weather proofed" others I know did nothing and survived all three runs, yet some others used the obvious methods to protect their car far better than some and still fell foul of the water, you can not second guess these type of conditions, luck has a lot to do with it.......

Darren Boyle
13-06-2011, 03:29 PM
if i understand darren correctly you wish to re run the regional?

put simply no you can't. the meeting went over two rounds and was threfor a "meeting" for scoring purposes.

can you use the reserve date for an "extra" regional?

not sure, the rules currently in force assume a meeting gets abandoned before two rounds and is null, if you have no reserve date you cannot add one, you simply drop from 3 from 4 to 2 from 3.

if you run all the regionals and then use the reserve date as an extra would you go from 3 from 4 to a 4 from 5? or go 3 from 5?.

having had a look at the rules i cannot see one that says you can't or what you do about the 3 from etc.

however should a driver who is lets say in a regional f3 position on the 3 from 4 having scored well at the silverstone meeting drop down to f4 with the inclusion of the extra meeting would he have grounds to protest? as he has probably lost his guaranteed national entry for the following season.

best bet would be to run it past paul worsley and then i really think you need to ask the drivers, you have plenty of time to get it right. worst case scenario is you run a meeting which you should not have done and all the mid south results are discounted for national ratings!!.

john
John,

From my own point of view, not fussed if it runs again or not (I cannot make the August date regardless), my undertsanding is now that it "has run" and survived the three rounds it stands end of (but it did not "have" to be that way yesterday) and I understand the club wanted to re-run also but was informed they could not.

My interpretation of the rules that you posted is that if you "add" another date, it then becomes 5 rounds (so the wet one still counts) but it is still the same number of rounds to count - ie 3, just 3 from 5 instead of 3 from 4. Any driver who was doing 3 from 4 still could, those who got taken out by the weather yesterday get another chance to get a good score with 3 from 5. The "extra" date in question is already set and in place for this reason....

Throughout all these posts I am 100% behind the club they did a sterling job yesterday and the conditions were tough. They had very little choice to cancel with the conditons getting worse and worse as time went on. For most of us it is juts our hobby, hobbies are there to be enjoyed and I dont know of too many people who were "enjoying" themselves that much yesterday as a result of the weather. I also stated that shop keepers often get pointed at when they DO run in adverse weather because people assume all our racing is FREE (which it is not) and that is why I decided NOT to run

mikeyscott
13-06-2011, 03:33 PM
I survived the rounds yesterday & probably benefitted etc. from being higher up.. Would I race again if a 5th round was put in on the 21st August - yes. I would prob finish lower down the order re points, but I'd still happily race again. Even though I was up at 04:30 to make the trip!!

mattybucks
13-06-2011, 03:35 PM
Not sure what your point is Matt, if we have a heatwave and are indoors in the shade then we wil be cooler than if we were outdoors in the direct sunlight???

I only mentioned the results since Alec said he had only done 1 run due to the conditions, the "weather" prevented drivers like him being were he woul;d have hoped to be, I guess Dave Burton could be included in that too from Tony's comments also. The rain (which is unavoidable) shakes up the results with more people than expected getting DNF's, as you said yoursefl a bit of foam and your car was "weather proofed" others I know did nothing and survived all three runs, yet some others used the obvious methods to protect their car far better than some and still fell foul of the water, you can not second guess these type of conditions, luck has a lot to do with it.......

Well sunlight does not always = heat. If it hot outside the usually it's hot indoors as well.

Re Alec, then I think he will correct me of i'm wrong but on one run a drivershaft came out and on the second DNF his bodyshell came off.

Darren Boyle
13-06-2011, 03:50 PM
Re Alec, then I think he will correct me of i'm wrong but on one run a drivershaft came out and on the second DNF his bodyshell came off. So he needed a second run in round 4 which the weather stopped him getting due to no 4th round......

TheReferee
13-06-2011, 03:51 PM
John,

From my own point of view, not fussed if it runs again or not, my undertsanding is now that it "has run" and survived the three rounds it stands end of (but it did not "have" to be that way) and I understand the club wanted to re-run also but was informed they could not.

My interpretation of the rules that you posted is that if you "add" another date, it then becomes 5 rounds (so the wet one still counts) but it is still the same number of rounds to count - ie 3, just 3 from 5 instead of 3 from 4. Any driver who was doing 3 from 4 still could, those who got taken out by the weather yesterday get another chance to get a good score with 3 from 5. The "extra" date in question is already set and in place for this reason....

see your reasoning darren but the rules assume you are adding a date that was not on the race calender, so you add a new date and go to 3 from 5, however in this case the date already exists to cover for an abandoned event, so there would still only be 4 events and you stay 3 from 4. in this case you want to use a date put aside for an abandoned meeting as an extra meeting. if i was asked to interpret the rules i would say you go 4 from 5 which does not help anyone rain affected yesterday. fortunately i do not have to interpret !! .

another issue is does the race director have to use the rounds run to give a score for the meeting?, again it is interpretation looking at the rule.

19.2 At abandoned events, scores from any Rounds or Finals can only be used if all heats in the
respective Rounds or all Finals have been completed. The overall qualifying positions after the last
completed round at the time of abandonment, will count as final positions with the corresponding points
being counted towards the Championship, providing a minimum of two rounds have been completed.
Where Round-by-Round qualifying has been chosen the positions will be determined as per. rule 15.25.

i highlight that "will count" bit which says to me the race director has no leeway and once you have done two its a meeting. again i don't make those decisions so its my opinion rather than BRCA fact.

john

mattybucks
13-06-2011, 03:57 PM
So he needed a second run in round 4 which the weather stopped him getting due to no 4th round......

Yeah but I was going to finished 1st in round four which would have put me in the A............ maybe this will be his round to drop, as I sure you will Darren.

Darren Boyle
13-06-2011, 04:00 PM
Yeah but I was going to finished 1st in round four which would have put me in the A............ maybe this will be his round to drop, as I sure you will Darren.

I have no points from that round to drop

RudeTony
13-06-2011, 04:04 PM
If you run an extra meeting you must take in to account that some cannot do that meeting so stay 3 counting.
I cannot do the 21st (Euros I think)
Also if 4 counting then some like me might say I won't do the next one either as i can't finish them all and things like that.

Yesterdays meeting has to count what ever you decide.
Deciding an extra meeting will benefit those that were not at the meeting yesterday, those that can't waterproof their cars and or just make too many errors. i.e Alec and David - They can have the extra point as I won't be there on the 21st (I think)
I am laughing so much i can't take the pain......

ps - If Paul W. is reading this then get my 40 ready as i am opening up a can of whop ass for the weekend for Alec.
You will know what I am on about John.....

Battle_axe
13-06-2011, 06:58 PM
I don't really understand the rules here or is it more the politics in my mind the weather has afected the results way past how driver prep and skill can at the end of the day as soon as luck is the way of scoring points it's not racing and we should really just play blackjack at the start and see who wins :p

I personally did about the same as I normally would at annother track however its my home track and i have done many laps on its surface so would have expected to be allot quicker also the people behind me were allot better drivers and a few in front are not they just got "lucky" (no disrespect) with the weather.

Just to reinforce my view think the event should be re-ran or at least run as an extra as I feel that's the most fair way to do this

johnb
13-06-2011, 07:41 PM
A BIG Well done to the Silverstone crew for putting on a good event and trying to keep going as long as poss but had to call it a day in the end as the weather was getting worse.

But I don't understand all the rules and from my point of view I would like to re-run the meeting again as this would make it fair as Carl said it was being lucky the with weather rather than skill with lots of random results.

Which means people at the end of the season will be higher than they should be.

chuckie stella
13-06-2011, 07:54 PM
Right people, I'll keep this brief as I've only had time to scan read the posts above and don't want anyone thinking I've quoted them by name.

If the decision was down to the race director then it would've ended the same way, for reasons I posted earlier. Safety is paramount, and as for cost, that's pretty high also. I think I bang on more than most club chairmen about how much our hobby costs for everyone and I'm always looking for ways for my members to keep costs down whenever possible.

I'm sorry more information wasn't revealed at the drivers briefing. I can only apologise as I'm new to this and should probably read the rules some time between running a business, family and trying to race myself. They're probably not good excuses I know, but if anyone wants the job of running a club to keep all of us guys racing then please apply for the job or start another club (our region could really do with it). I will try to give more information at drivers briefings in the future even though I do rely on the more experienced chaps participating to bring up any thing I've missed (not passing blame!!!!!!). I will take any criticism on my larger than normal chin!

Please, please do not argue between yourselves as I know most of you that have posted and can say you all have our clubs interest at heart. I didn't understand Darren's decision to not race at the start of the day, however, I understood around 5 hours later and after reading his reasons above.

CRB - with regards to your comment. Watch this space my friend :thumbsup:

I've probably missed loads out on what I wanted to say and will probably be criticised for not knowing my facts enough or taking the time etc, but I'm up soon for a 02.00 start again and as ever, look forward to reading your comments tomorrow.

Thanks,

Matt

mikeyscott
13-06-2011, 08:28 PM
No critisms from me dude, know the pain of running a club. :)

mattybucks
13-06-2011, 08:40 PM
Matt,

A big thank you to you and the rest of the Silverstone team for putting on a great day. The track was awesome, I even enjoyed the fact it was raining.

More racing at Silverstone please guys

budgio
13-06-2011, 08:53 PM
The Silverstone team always do a great job in running the race meets be it at Silverstone or Moto Arena.:thumbsup:
I have no issues with any decisions made on the day.
Personally speaking i,ve never took part in a meet that was this wet before so the race conditions were all new to me and i,m thankful to have gained more experience on a soaked astro surface & i,m sure a few others would agree too.
I liked driving in the wet,the track was still good, but there was a lot of puddle dodging to be done by round three which unfortunatley proved costly for 6 or 7 racers.
A decision had to be made quickly and it was.
Maybe a decision to re-run/extra meet can be made quickly too?
I,m all up for more racing ;)

Swiss
13-06-2011, 10:23 PM
In fairness, from what I remember the top 10 was I wouldn't say random, I am pretty sure that all the drivers had made a regional A final before, so you cannot say that that is random. Unfortunately I am unsure of the finishing positons of everyone.
The two drivers mentioned in this thread are experienced enough to know how the weather conditions can effect Electric RC cars, and from looking through the thread one had other mechanical problems and the other chose not to weather proof his car. I am sure that at most of the main RC events there are random results for one reason or another. Shall we just keep re-running them until everyone is happy with their positions? They do say you make your own luck.
We all knew the possibilities, of damaging our cars/electrics as we to took to the track for round one. No one is forced.
It also suprises me, that know has mentioned the safety of ourselves/the marshalls, which I am sure is another tough decision that Matt and the team had to make.
Sorry Darren, you seem to be making a lot of noise about this on this thread, but when it came to the crunch and you was asked to voice your opinion you chose to do other things. I am sure, the urgent, (which I have no doubt it was) situation you was dealing with could have waited for a couple of minute, whilst you visited race control and gave your opinions. From what I remember someone even tried to call you on your mobile.

Anyway, again, I would like to say big thanks to Silverstone and everyone involved.

P

Darren Boyle
13-06-2011, 10:55 PM
Sorry Darren, you seem to be making a lot of noise about this on this thread, but when it came to the crunch and you was asked to voice your opinion you chose to do other things. I am sure, the urgent, (which I have no doubt it was) situation you was dealing with could have waited for a couple of minute, whilst you visited race control and gave your opinions. From what I remember someone even tried to call you on your mobile.

I gather by your tone Paul you had a "good" result then on Sunday!!! When I said random results, there was peopel all over the place in all postions as it ended sunday, when the points come out you will see what I mean, of course the top 10 were still great drivers, they had to be (even more so in those conditions) to get the time in on that sort of surface, but this way of deciding the results is not the same as racing it out in finals etc.

Not sure why you keep singling me out, if you actually read my posts I have agreed with and supported the club on its decision to cancel, it was the right thing to do, read the opinions of the other people, they are asking for a re-run far more than me .... It is the "racers" on this thread who would have liked it re-run, those who just want a days racing rather then three rounds of lottery (or black jack as someone else called it), I have already said I could not care less either way (I cannot make the August 21st date myself so it does not affect me), my ONLY point is, at the regional meeting (somthing you are not at) the "clubs" decide a date that in the event of a meeting being abandoned we can then run on instead, this date is put on the entry form so everyone knows what it is and can plan around it, now we actualy have a use for it, we are not using it, seems crazy and a waste of time putting in place to start with!! (as seems to be the opinion of most of the "racers" (not me) on this thread who would have preffered it re-run)

The fact the "rules" state this or that is somthing being thrown around in our region far too much at present IMHO, they are ignored when preffered and adhered to strictly at other times, there is no consistency. I will explain. Our jump "HAD" to be moved at Watford since the car went out of sight breifly and it was too big, so reluctanlty we moved it, next week at Ware we had a jump were the car went out of sight (I had no problem with this) but the jump stayed, plus a jump twice the size of our "too big" one also which stayed. Ware chose to use tyres for track markers on some corners, rules say we cannot, but they stayed, now we are told "rules" tell us a soaking wet abandoned regional cannot be re-run. This is NO dig at the clubs, particular Ware (which I thouroughly enjoyed and look forward to going back to, with or without tyres on corners and big jumps) I am just stating that we only seem to bring out the "rule" book when it suits certain people......

Not sure what the discussion between the clubs in race control had to do with youself to be honest and to get the facts in order, I was soldering in an ESC for a customer whose had blown with the wet at the time. I was then called on my mobile (from all of 20 yards away) and told Matt there and then my vote would be to abandon, so my opinion WAS voiced (with soldering iiron in one hand and phone in the other), I also suggested we fell back onto the date reserved for abandoned meetings which Matt agreed and wanted to do but was told...... you guessed it..... the rules say no.

Smartalec
14-06-2011, 06:13 AM
Just to put this to bed, I said at the start of this thread that I agreed that the meeting should have been cancelled and that the Silverstone crew had made the right decision. Personally I have no problems with the results standing the way they are, the people that benefitted from the escalated positions deserved to do just that and the people that lost out (me included) were just unlucky ....... that's racing.

To put the record straight though, my problem in round one was a driveshaft popping out as a result of me fitting a set of shocks to the car that weren't limited enough (they had X11 shock bottoms on so that was my fault for not checking the length properly). Round two was no problem (my one score) and round three the water got into the velcro on the bodyshell and peeled it off, this lifted the body from the car and as the more experienced racers will know the rules say that you have to stop circulating when this happens. The body was put back on a couple of times by marshals as I thought it wasn't fitted correctly but as soon as one shouted that the velcro had come off I had no option but to pull up. It wouldn't have been a wise move to carry on anyway because of the standing water, i'm not prepared to blow electrics up for fun. As we all know, round four didn't start. My car WAS properly waterproofed and I had NO actual mechanical problems OR driving mistakes so theres the PROPER account of my days racing, just to help Tony with his facts.

No idea why Tony brought up the National bet we have between us on this thread, perhaps he's losing his sense of direction as he nears retirement. But to clarify that too, it's one all at this stage (2wd to me and 4wd to him), now i've changed 4wd I might edge a little closer, who knows? ;)

There also seems to be an interest by some (why?) in me changing back to the 511 halfway through the season. Anyone who wants to know the reason only has to come up and ask me and i'll tell them personally, though I have no idea why it's any of their concern what I do. :confused:

Hopefully, with Tony's new found form he'll do the Veterans meeting this year (at Silverstone) instead of the F2's and not cry off like last year when he knew he couldn't beat me :lol:

Good luck at the weekend mate, although in your mind you've obviously won already but i'm sure we'll all hear about it on here when you get home Sunday evening after you've collected the money from Paul :wub

RudeTony
14-06-2011, 06:31 AM
WOW - OMG I can't stop laughing.
Alec you are so paranoid - it's only 20 you are going to loose mate -LOL

Ring me you old fool

JCJC
14-06-2011, 06:49 AM
With the expected weather, would it have been possible to move the venue to an indoor arena ?

mattybucks
14-06-2011, 06:52 AM
Hopefully, with Tony's new found form he'll do the Veterans meeting this year (at Silverstone) instead of the F2's and not cry off like last year when he knew he couldn't beat me :lol: :wub

The gauntlet has been set! Will Tony accept Alec's offer and battle it out at the vets, and try and crawl back from his upcoming wager defeat? Tune in later to find out more!!

RudeTony
14-06-2011, 06:54 AM
There is no doubt many will disagree with many others opinions and Darren has got a point about the rule for one and a rule for another or if you like when it suits here and not suit there. We had this once before recently if you all recall.
The facts are clear.
We all turned up to race and did (apart from 2 people and they are NOT the ones moaning)
We all run 3 rounds and by the BRCA rules we run by, the results stand whatever they are.
It is a BRCA sanctioned event and run under those rules so if someone does not like them then you have to come up with another idea that is better and then propose it to have the rule changed.
The point that someone else made, was about indoor racing and that his motor speedo or whatever thermalled, Another is at Ware Darren Bloomfield thermalled out because the track desired a hot motor, or this or that or whatever. You can't say AFTER the event that it wasn't fair, or should not of run it or lets have a re-run etc etc.
It was the same for everyone in horrible conditions and that is that - simples!
In wet conditions waterproof your stuff and indoors put fans in to keep things cool.
We all have to adapt to every condition thrown at us or throw 100K at an indoor event that no doubt someone will find something to moan at.
Live with it lads, it's done and dusted now but please please don't have a go at the organisers. The Silverstone crew did a great job as usual and where victims of their own success in trying to run as long as they saw possible.

AND FOR YOUR ENTERTAINMENT THIS MORNING I HAVE THE FOLLOWING:


To put the record straight though, my problem in round one was a driveshaft popping out as a result of me fitting a set of shocks to the car that weren't limited enough (they had X11 shock bottoms on so that was my fault for not checking the length properly). Mechanic is getting too old for this shit - LOL




round three the water got into the velcro on the body shell and peeled it off, Mechanic needs to get hold of better velcro or glue the bloody thing - LOL




My car WAS properly waterproofed and I had NO actual mechanical problems OR driving mistakes so theres the PROPER account of my days racing, just to help Tony with his facts.I have no idea what side of the bed the mechanic got out of bed this morning but I haven't laughed like this in a morning for years - LOL




No idea why Tony brought up the National bet we have between us on this thread, perhaps he's losing his sense of direction as he nears retirement. But to clarify that too, it's one all at this stage (2wd to me and 4wd to him), now i've changed 4wd I might edge a little closer, who knows? Just a reminder me old fruit - :)




Hopefully, with Tony's new found form he'll do the Veterans meeting this year (at Silverstone) instead of the F2's and not cry off like last year when he knew he couldn't beat me I out qualified you by some near 20 secs - you ok this morning?! - results are on line you know - LOL
I say this with my heart - I love Alec Springer.......
I wrote all this and their are still tears running down my face with laughter............

Swiss
14-06-2011, 06:55 AM
To be honest Darren I am not sure, I stopped in the first round with a stripped servo horn, and in the secound and third, I believe I put in some good round scores.

You have kwown me for a long time Darren, to know I am not the sort of person to start or be involved in a confrentation, I have had my gripes over the years but sometimes, you just have to put it down to the rub of the green and get on with it. Which we did on sunday and thats that.

I just think soemtimes we are all too quick to post on these forums and highlight the negatives, instead of supporting the club helpers and club.

"Rubbing is Racing"

:-)

QUOTE=DMS Racing;514614]I gather by your tone Paul you had a "good" result then on Sunday!!! When I said random results, there was peopel all over the place in all postions as it ended sunday, when the points come out you will see what I mean, of course the top 10 were still great drivers, they had to be (even more so in those conditions) to get the time in on that sort of surface, but this way of deciding the results is not the same as racing it out in finals etc.

Not sure why you keep singling me out, if you actually read my posts I have agreed with and supported the club on its decision to cancel, it was the right thing to do, read the opinions of the other people, they are asking for a re-run far more than me .... It is the "racers" on this thread who would have liked it re-run, those who just want a days racing rather then three rounds of lottery (or black jack as someone else called it), I have already said I could not care less either way (I cannot make the August 21st date myself so it does not affect me), my ONLY point is, at the regional meeting (somthing you are not at) the "clubs" decide a date that in the event of a meeting being abandoned we can then run on instead, this date is put on the entry form so everyone knows what it is and can plan around it, now we actualy have a use for it, we are not using it, seems crazy and a waste of time putting in place to start with!! (as seems to be the opinion of most of the "racers" (not me) on this thread who would have preffered it re-run)

The fact the "rules" state this or that is somthing being thrown around in our region far too much at present IMHO, they are ignored when preffered and adhered to strictly at other times, there is no consistency. I will explain. Our jump "HAD" to be moved at Watford since the car went out of sight breifly and it was too big, so reluctanlty we moved it, next week at Ware we had a jump were the car went out of sight (I had no problem with this) but the jump stayed, plus a jump twice the size of our "too big" one also which stayed. Ware chose to use tyres for track markers on some corners, rules say we cannot, but they stayed, now we are told "rules" tell us a soaking wet abandoned regional cannot be re-run. This is NO dig at the clubs, particular Ware (which I thouroughly enjoyed and look forward to going back to, with or without tyres on corners and big jumps) I am just stating that we only seem to bring out the "rule" book when it suits certain people......

Not sure what the discussion between the clubs in race control had to do with youself to be honest and to get the facts in order, I was soldering in an ESC for a customer whose had blown with the wet at the time. I was then called on my mobile (from all of 20 yards away) and told Matt there and then my vote would be to abandon, so my opinion WAS voiced (with soldering iiron in one hand and phone in the other), I also suggested we fell back onto the date reserved for abandoned meetings which Matt agreed and wanted to do but was told...... you guessed it..... the rules say no.[/QUOTE]

Darren Boyle
14-06-2011, 10:21 AM
Paul, agreed, I have no problem with you fella, I was just a little surprised that in two posts you mentioned me only and seemed to suggest it was me moaning at the club, which I am not, they did 100% the right thing. My ONLY gripe as I have already mentioned is why have we got this "reserve" date for cancelled meetings when the time comes that we could actually use it and we dont, even when the club wanted to......

Sabesto
14-06-2011, 02:26 PM
Surly the reserve date is only for when the meeting can't run, or gets cancelled before the end of 2 rounds. We were only one round short of a complete meeting in terms of qualifyling! to turn around and say to people that did 3 rounds, risking there electrics and geting a good result, sorry but the result doesn't stand and we are going to re-run it in August, would be more maddness and far more people complaining about Rules! Although i'm invovled with the club, i think the right decisions were made by everyone involved.

Richard Ralph

Darren Boyle
14-06-2011, 02:39 PM
Surly the reserve date is only for when the meeting can't run, or gets cancelled before the end of 2 rounds. We were only one round short of a complete meeting in terms of qualifyling! to turn around and say to people that did 3 rounds, risking there electrics and geting a good result, sorry but the result doesn't stand and we are going to re-run it in August, would be more maddness and far more people complaining about Rules! Although i'm invovled with the club, i think the right decisions were made by everyone involved.

Richard Ralph
Agreed Rich, I think the extra date would have been an extra to what we have already done and it IS what the club (Matt) wanted to do at the time....