PDA

View Full Version : Ball Diffified


Balders
08-06-2011, 11:51 AM
Been talking about this for a couple of weeks with a few people and have finally got around to putting the theory into practise.

What you are looking at here is a Kyosho ZX5 diff in a Durango gearbox. Its taken some light machining but actually fits very well.

To do this you need to machine the out drive bearing stops down by about half a mill so you can fit the Diff in with some play so it can be shimmed correctly and also make the actual drive shaft dog bone sockets 2.1mm instead of the kyosho 1.5mm to take the Durango drive shafts.

You also require 2x LA202 - ZX-5 Diff Input Shaft which needs to have roughly 8mm shaved from it to allow the Durango centre drive shafts to fit, this also enables you to run the Kyosho crown gear because f you ran the Durango metal crown gear it would strip the diff after a lap or so.

Other than that its a very easy mod/change to carry out.

http://www.oople.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24608&stc=1&d=1307532265

I'm yet to run it but initial feeling is it makes the drive train a lot quieter and free'er as well as a lot lighter.

I'm not the first to try this and I hear there people running this already and would be interested to swap notes with them! :)

RC John
08-06-2011, 03:24 PM
Nice work!
I'm curious how well the nylon gears will hold up.

Stu
08-06-2011, 08:08 PM
I'm yet to run it but initial feeling is it makes the drive train a lot quieter and free'er as well as a lot lighter.)

Lighter, of course - plastic gears with no grease and gear case - but free'er?

I've found the standard Durango setup to be perfectly free.

Nice job thought, your handy-work looks very neat indeed.

Balders
08-06-2011, 08:20 PM
Lighter, of course - plastic gears with no grease and gear case - but free'er?

I've found the standard Durango setup to be perfectly free.

Nice job thought, your handy-work looks very neat indeed.

yeah its difficult to explain free'er, maybe its because its quieter and lighter it comes across as being free'er if that makes sense.. :)

I've had a couple of PM's about what parts are needed and its quite straight forward:

2 Diffs and crown gears from a ZX5. (You could prob pick up a whole second hand car for the cost of buying all the bits separately)
2 x LA202 - ZX-5 Diff Input Shaft

That's it, you don't need to modify the gearbox case at all so the only parts you need to machine are the out drives.

I'm curious how well the nylon gears will hold up.

These are the same gears as in the FS and SP lazers and I'm thinking the same as I've whitnessed no end of gearboxes fail. If they do start to let go on me then the gears from the Tamiya 502x will also fit this so might be worth a test with those. (reason I used Kyosho this time round is the parts were cheaper and easier to get hold of)

Hopefully as long as the weathers not horrific this weekend I'll get to run it! :)

Stu
08-06-2011, 08:30 PM
What is the manual behind the image - 501X?

Balders
08-06-2011, 08:52 PM
511 :)

Body Paint
19-06-2011, 08:30 PM
I had a race with this car today and all I can say is WOW!! The car is superb.

I detest the way the gear diff'd car drove, I have never been able to find a nuetral balance for the car, it seems to be understeering or ovrsteering or wheelying or endo'ing. I always felt the gear diffs make the car so nervous and on the edge that I wasn't able to relax driving the car.

The ball diff car is so easy to push and drive quickly. The car stays flat and level across bumps and through corners, the rear of the car still feels a little skittish due to the 50/50 weight distribution but with the ball diffs in the car soaks it up and the rear end happily follows along behind the front. The car still has its awesome steering feel but at no point did the car bite itself in the arse or pitch itself into any crazyness and I had no need to put any panicie inputs into the sticks at all.

I ran the car back to back with my usual 4wd in qually today and went a full 12 seconds faster on the very first outing with the 410 'Balders Edition' :thumbsup:

ghostdogg
20-06-2011, 06:06 AM
Looks great mod!
Just looked and they are the same diffs on an old tf5 touring car too!
I've got one lying about in the shed so I might give this a go!
Oli

Balders
20-06-2011, 09:06 AM
The car needs more work as Craig said but it did look quite good. I've got a small vid of it going round which I'm uploading now.

Once a few things have been ironed out hopefully this should be a nice little project. :)

One thing I will do is swap the gears from Kyosho to something a little more robust, either Tamiya or something along those lines. By the end of the run i could hear a slight click under very hard braking even though the mesh was pretty much spot on.

Balders
20-06-2011, 10:19 AM
Ge49xaBIgUc

Balders
23-06-2011, 10:16 AM
As requested

Parts list for Ball diff.

2x LA202 - Drive input shaft
1x LA200 - Diff Beval Gear Set
2x UM119- Diff plates
2x LA201 - Steel Diff Shaft set (out drives)
2x UM124 - Diff Tension spring
24x 3/32 diff balls
2x BRG100 - Diff Thrust Race
1x LA208 - Ball Diff Screw set

GRIFF55
23-06-2011, 10:53 AM
Nice job balders!

simoncrabb
23-06-2011, 01:47 PM
We're very interested in this! As much as I hate ball diff maintenance, if it makes it easier to drive I'll give it a go!

We'd look to make up a total Kyosho Balder 410 Diff Kit if enough people are interested.

Emails to admin@rclazy.com if you are please.

simoncrabb
01-07-2011, 09:39 AM
We've got the parts in stock, and there's plenty of interest, prices to follow.

YHtEdgmw7mE

SHY
01-07-2011, 10:27 AM
We've got the parts in stock, and there's plenty of interest, prices to follow.

YHtEdgmw7mE

Interested in a set (machined, ready for use). OK to ship to Norway? Let us know the total price :thumbsup:

Would you be able to do Durango gear diff conversion for B44 as well?

simoncrabb
01-07-2011, 11:23 AM
Lazy Kyango : Kyosho Ball Diff Kit for Durango DEX410

http://rclazy.com/shop/car-spares/team-durango/lazy-kyango-kyosho-ball-diff-kit-for-durango-dex410/

SHY
01-07-2011, 11:29 AM
Great stuff! :thumbsup:

GRIFF55
01-07-2011, 12:45 PM
durosho would be a cool version crabby

SHY
01-07-2011, 12:58 PM
Not to forget the Lazy Durasso! :thumbsup:

fastinfastout
01-07-2011, 05:40 PM
finally a conversion that works. It is interesting people wanting to go ball diffs in the durango, and guys trying out gear diffs in their 511.

SHY
01-07-2011, 05:51 PM
Well, IMHO it's about time all manufacturers got off their asses and supplied both ball and gear diffs for ALL their cars!

This is a classic Windows / Apple game :thumbsup:

Come on you slow f....'ers! :D It's easy money!!!

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...

cmgreen
01-07-2011, 06:51 PM
Does it really make a difference?

Rebelrc
01-07-2011, 09:25 PM
YES!

fastinfastout
02-07-2011, 12:18 AM
Well, IMHO it's about time all manufacturers got off their asses and supplied both ball and gear diffs for ALL their cars!

This is a classic Windows / Apple game :thumbsup:

Come on you slow f....'ers! :D It's easy money!!!

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
and spec r has taken the advantage by releasing gear diffs for onroad cars. Its only now that tamiya have their own gear diff released for the 417, and soon xray.

slowjun
12-07-2011, 07:26 AM
Sorry but i dont get it, we get the 410 coz of the gear Diff( well at least for me that was my deciding factor for buying my DEX), now we convert it to Ball Diff? i would understand if you have a B44 and mod it to have a DEX gear Diff, but down grade it. .. well maybe its just for the fun of it and spending some time thinkering with out kits... oh well....i may stick with my good old gear diff....

peetbee
12-07-2011, 01:24 PM
Sorry but i dont get it, we get the 410 coz of the gear Diff( well at least for me that was my deciding factor for buying my DEX), now we convert it to Ball Diff? i would understand if you have a B44 and mod it to have a DEX gear Diff, but down grade it. .. well maybe its just for the fun of it and spending some time thinkering with out kits... oh well....i may stick with my good old gear diff....
Read post 7, that may help explain why. I know of a few people who love the rest of the car but don't like the way it handles due to the gear diffs.
I doubt they'd agree it's a downgrade!

slowjun
13-07-2011, 09:04 AM
Read post 7, that may help explain why. I know of a few people who love the rest of the car but don't like the way it handles due to the gear diffs.
I doubt they'd agree it's a downgrade!


Yes i have read the post but still cant understand why, you buy a $6XX bucks car , then buy Upgrade/Downgrade to Diff?? might as well buy a lazer that is half the price.... well its one of the reason why i bought mine , this was due to the gear Diff, as before my B44 was stripping ( newbie being me) and the Driver ( my son) , so i decided to get this Car. after that, no more gear stripping. But for the pros that you i respect that.... that is IMHO.

less maintenance + less headaches= more Fun with my son..:thumbsup:

peetbee
13-07-2011, 03:25 PM
IMO it's not that simple, as the Lazer at half the price doesn't have all the other features that they like about the Durango.

You want low maintenance gear diffs, so why didn't you buy a LRP Blast as it has gear diffs at a much lower price than the Durango?:woot:

Balders
14-07-2011, 12:11 PM
Ball diff's over gear diff's as all about the 'feel'.

Maintenance has very little to do with it really as if you build a ball diff right it can last just as long as a gear diff would between fluid top ups.

Am hoping to get the parts back to Simon over the next few days so he can send them out ready for people to try for themselves then we can get some good rounded feedback on it.

Don't think of Ball Diff's in a Rango as an upgrade or downgrade think of it more as a tuning option then it makes sense.

Mike

colmo
14-07-2011, 03:26 PM
What about running one ball diff, one gear diff, as a further tuning option? I suppose in a car with a skittish rear, it would be gear diff in the front, ball diff in the rear? In a stable car, maybe the gear diff would go in the back for more drive out of corners?

buhade
14-07-2011, 07:15 PM
its all simple,

ball diff better on bumpy low to mid grip track conditions. Gear diff on carpet.

its the same with rear or mid motor 2wd - rear better on low to mid grip track conditions, mid motor cars better on carpet ( high grip)

hloland
29-07-2011, 04:56 PM
UM119- Diff plates is for RB-5! you need KYO97032, (formerly WBD4) for the Lazer diffs...

Cham
31-07-2012, 10:00 PM
Hey guys,

Any further developments on this? Also where can I look to get the parts?

Any tips on how to build the kyosho diffs? Methods? Oils? Break-in etc??


Thanks,
Cham