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BenG
22-06-2006, 07:13 AM
Well I finally uploaded the pics, spent a while contemplating whether or not to do it. I need to get the price down though, is looking to be atleast ú250 or around $400 complete

http://www.morleymodels.com/images/final%20design%20copy.gif

i
f you have any tc3/tc4/ b4 parts you wish to donate for free, PM me

The design is based on a BJ4,
with:
- lowered shock towers
- lightened chassis, top deck and motor mount.
-It uses 'jconcepts' diff cases, and AE ball diffs. (I am just querying some blue cvd's, which will be of a custom design.)
-The car uses B4/tc4 shocks (depends which I feel best suit the front suspension.)
- Also included will be pins to fit all the different wheels out there. It will also have a revised steering system, which uses custom moulded blocks and includes some tc4/3 parts and a custom moulded shock rocker mount and shock rocker.

I thank you for all your support. Although, could anyone come up woth a better name. I thought, twister v2 or something, but I need a better name.
Anyone who comes up with a better name, well I will use it for the car http://s3.images.proboards.com/wink.gif Price wise, it will be roughly $350-$400 depends on manufacturing costs. I must note, that the car will be made in batches( not spares) and only say 5 will be avaible at first. Let me make the first car, and I will tell you how its going http://s3.images.proboards.com/grin.gif

Any thoughts on design e.t.c would really help too:cool: I can confirm it will be tested on UK tracks, so finally we should get a prupose built UK racer

BenG
03-08-2006, 03:26 PM
What da you think of this car? Let me know;)

bert digler
03-08-2006, 03:44 PM
nice but id cut some extra cell slots so you mess about with weight distribution good luck with dude:)

jim76
03-08-2006, 03:53 PM
have you managed to get a prototype together yet?
Any photos of the real car?

BenG
03-08-2006, 03:55 PM
No, its gonna be my winter project, it should be finished for decmember-ish:D

Richard Lowe
03-08-2006, 04:23 PM
So basically your putting inboard suspension and and different steering geometry on a BJ4?

I'd stay away from the touring car steering, from my experience with the TC3'O it isn't strong enough :(

BenG
03-08-2006, 04:47 PM
That, and I have planeed to re-mould most of the plastic parts. Thanks for that tip, I think I will re-design the steering layout, like you say, the TC3'0' isnt exactly he best 4wd buggy ever;)

Cockerill
03-08-2006, 09:10 PM
the TC3'0' isnt exactly he best 4wd buggy ever;)


No but the BJ4 is so why change it :confused: :D

Northy
03-08-2006, 09:47 PM
No but the BJ4 is so why change it :confused: :D

Oh really, is that right Tom? :o :D

G

DCM
03-08-2006, 10:09 PM
Human nature, some of us can't be arsed then some of us think, why not, lol.

Cockerill
03-08-2006, 10:43 PM
Oh really, is that right Tom? :o :D

G

Certainly is ;)

BenG
04-08-2006, 10:43 AM
Why Imprrove this car you ask?
1.Because I am bored
2. I am setting up an RC company,and want to sell it.
3. Because I can:D

This car is now known as the YRD phantom X

PaulRotheram
04-08-2006, 10:59 AM
question is.. do you know how to improve the car? and why the changes you will make give the car an advantage..

you also wish to sell the car, so how will parts avaliability be? can i expect upgrades? have you decided on a new shell + wing? i could keep going.. the list is that long. have you planned it all out?

DCM
04-08-2006, 11:09 AM
If you need any help or need ideas bouncing, pm me for my MSN account

BenG
04-08-2006, 11:23 AM
question is.. do you know how to improve the car? and why the changes you will make give the car an advantage..

you also wish to sell the car, so how will parts avaliability be? can i expect upgrades? have you decided on a new shell + wing? i could keep going.. the list is that long. have you planned it all out?

Parts availbability is going to be top notch I assure you, and if the car needs upgrades, they will developed from there. I also have a shell and wing moulder, who is awaiting my design, which I am going to make as soon as I finish the car, so I can make it the snuggest and lowest fit possible.;) I plan to mould the parts myself, with a special nylon moulding material I have. I am using a carbon fibre copy material, which has the same properties as carbon fibre, but is easier to cut. This makes it ideal for me, until I can find a Carbon Fibre machinist.

I am only going to make 1 car at first, and test it through the winter indorrs, and out if it is warm and dry enough. I should then have a reasonable set-up to start on, for the spring and summer. I can then peice together a manual, and if it is really that good enough, design and order the packaging. I will keep you lot updated as I go.

Long term, I do need a few people who are interested in using this car, for testing purposes. But I do need to get a prototype together first:D

Chrislong
04-08-2006, 05:01 PM
2. I am setting up an RC company,and want to sell it.
[/B]

How good are you at marketing? As I really think that you need to think this through long and hard. Asking yourself mainly, how much this will cost to do (tooling, time, admin, advertising etc) and how much you can sell the kit for + how many you think you can sell + how many you will need to sell in what time to cover costs.

Don't forget, you are trying to redesign a car that won the world championships and is really popular in its standard form. So although you are dealing with many potential customers (i.e. guys who already have a BJ4), they are also guys who will beleive that the current design can;t be improved and any non J-Concepts changes will be pointless.

My advice to you. Rather than choose a current winner and redesign it as a winner, choose a car that is a failure, and make it a winner.... such as the Academy SB Sport.... the concept of this chassis is close to the BJ4, but corners have been cut to sell the car at a low price.

BenG
04-08-2006, 07:06 PM
How good are you at marketing? As I really think that you need to think this through long and hard. Asking yourself mainly, how much this will cost to do (tooling, time, admin, advertising etc) and how much you can sell the kit for + how many you think you can sell + how many you will need to sell in what time to cover costs.

Don't forget, you are trying to redesign a car that won the world championships and is really popular in its standard form. So although you are dealing with many potential customers (i.e. guys who already have a BJ4), they are also guys who will beleive that the current design can;t be improved and any non J-Concepts changes will be pointless.

My advice to you. Rather than choose a current winner and redesign it as a winner, choose a car that is a failure, and make it a winner.... such as the Academy SB Sport.... the concept of this chassis is close to the BJ4, but corners have been cut to sell the car at a low price.

Dude, you have come up with a cool idea there, I think there may be a re-design on my hands. I want to sell it, the Phantom x is going to cosr ú172 to make. However, its not all about profits, as I want to make a sweet car for racers. I am going to re-design it now, how good are Acedewmy spares?

BenG
04-08-2006, 07:31 PM
HAs anyone got a link to the acedmy RC website, and their Uk distributors:confused:

OldTimer
04-08-2006, 07:32 PM
What Chris has said is on the money, you really need to think long and hard what you are going to do, it can cost a lot of money to produce a car even if some of the work is done in house i know ;)

With the Slim4 i have already invested well into four figures and i am over a year into the project, and i have three cars to show for it.

I think you need to decide what chassis / base car / you are going to start with first :)

DCM
04-08-2006, 07:47 PM
Let me just say 'you can't turn a turd into GOLD, alchemy don't work'. As much as I understand what Chris says, the issue with the Academy isn't just its chassis. I am not sure if they have improved the quality of platics, but they weren't the best, and the metal parts were worse, and I know thay haven't improved much.

So it might be worth looking at a drivtrain first, and basing a car around it.

tc2k
04-08-2006, 08:11 PM
Great to see you doing this. Id love to do something like what you're intending. Sounds like a good project to do and can't wait to see the outcome, good luck. For parts, Associated parts are cheap so why use any other make.

Chrislong
04-08-2006, 08:26 PM
Well I hope our info is helping you here. As for the quality of the Academy, Steve (DCM) can give the best first hand advice as he was the most patient for longest.

If you was to go for this kit as a base. Start by fixing the faults:

1, Quality of plastic, very flexible
2, Quality of metals - the diff outdrives and driveshafts wear fast
3, Quality of gears - They seemed to flex and slip
4, Iinternal Ratio very high, which meant it span like crazy to go a normal speed

If you could remould parts, and adjust the chassis to fit AE/Pred transmission throughout.

To go for the BJ4 would give you an instantly relaible car to start on, but I fear that you wouldn't tempt any already satisfied BJ4 owners. We'd all like to see you succeed!

Or how about a complete new car? How about something new? (from top of my head) a tranverse motored shaft drive car? (i.e. motor 90degree turned compared to current shaft drives)

OldTimer
04-08-2006, 08:35 PM
Or how about a complete new car? How about something new? (from top of my head) a tranverse motored shaft drive car? (i.e. motor 90degree turned compared to current shaft drives)

I am sure the new Tamiya 4wd is like that Chris.

BenG
04-08-2006, 08:39 PM
Hmm, maybe for the futrue, I just want to make something that is simple, but goes like the wind. I have a good budget avaialble.

I have a few questions about the acedmemy

1. How good is the chassis/ top deck material?

I think that will be a ll I am using from that car, with a TC3 tranny;)

DCM
04-08-2006, 08:51 PM
Academy chassis, erm, take a peice of quilted toilet paper (sounds good so far) then wet it, you get the idea. As for the transmission, I never, funnily, had an issue and thought it worked pretty good, but like any other shaft drive, it took correct shimming. Shit loads of work to stop metal bits from devouring each other though.

The only thing I would say, if you ARE going to make a shaft drive, ensure you tie the prop shaft in to the motor mount in some way, then you are garaunteed an accurate mesh (no telling me off now Northy).

Personaly, the way I see it, decide on your transmission first, then go from there.

Dude you got my msn, I got a bloody good idea for you, and as long as you can get alloy machined, you da'man.

BenG
04-08-2006, 09:05 PM
So, perhaps not the best base car then? I do need to find a car that is shaft drive, and is less than compettiive that needs a tyrc upgrade:D

emzy
04-08-2006, 09:09 PM
V2 aint so bad! Goes pretty well actually, I've just not had time to play and get it set up and that!

losidan
04-08-2006, 09:37 PM
By choosing a car which is seen as a failure are you not going to invest money on a car which ultimately with all the best of intentions end up being at best as good as the current best in market? If the academy had so much problems would it not be best focusing on a car that didnt have so many issues to start with. Look at the X5, started with a car which was good already and improved where the manafacturer didnt. Other cases are Xenon and shooters with the associated RC12L3.

To begin with would it be best to start making upgrades for an exisiting successful car to refine any weak parts it has or improve it further where the manafacturer may of wanted to but couldnt for what ever reason. I am just thinking that the initial set up costs would be much lower while allow you to build a reputation for your company. Once established you can do what you intend currently and use the name you have built as a part of your marketing.

DCM
04-08-2006, 09:57 PM
why shaft though?

Northy
04-08-2006, 10:44 PM
The only thing I would say, if you ARE going to make a shaft drive, ensure you tie the prop shaft in to the motor mount in some way, then you are garaunteed an accurate mesh (no telling me off now Northy).

:D :D :D :D :D

Nowt wrong with the Pred if you mesh it right and tightern up the motor mount screw until you think it's gonna strip and then a little bit more! :o :D

G

BenG
05-08-2006, 08:12 AM
So what does everyone think is a good starter or base car? All suggestions are welcome;)

BenG
05-08-2006, 02:57 PM
Ok, I have anew idea. A belt driven car, based on a corally rdx. IT will have re-machined transmission housing though, with some a e bits, a few jconcepts prats, just need to make a slipper clutch for it

Richard Lowe
05-08-2006, 04:56 PM
If you wanted to make something a bit different how about a B4 back end with the transmission reversed, with a belt from the layshaft to the front end?

DCM
05-08-2006, 05:30 PM
That sounds pretty similar to my 4wd at the moment, except it is a shaft not a belt, but basicaly a 2wd gearbox back there.

Spencer Mulcahy
06-08-2006, 07:47 AM
Now then you said any ideas, How about a shaft and belt driven 4wd two shafts ala losi jrxs conected in the middle with a belt. You can use the slipper from the B4 batteries and motor down the middle servo st side of motor speedo and reciever other side. You will have to use diffs like on the jrxs with longer outdrive on one side. In theory should have good weight distribution (I am no engineer) with all the heavy stuff in the middle. Could be best of both worlds no torque steer on hard acceleration like on a shaft car but with the eficiency of a shaft car. Did a little doodle of this last night and it looks like it could work (it was quiet at work).:cool:

BenG
06-08-2006, 02:33 PM
Now then you said any ideas, How about a shaft and belt driven 4wd two shafts ala losi jrxs conected in the middle with a belt. You can use the slipper from the B4 batteries and motor down the middle servo st side of motor speedo and reciever other side. You will have to use diffs like on the jrxs with longer outdrive on one side. In theory should have good weight distribution (I am no engineer) with all the heavy stuff in the middle. Could be best of both worlds no torque steer on hard acceleration like on a shaft car but with the eficiency of a shaft car. Did a little doodle of this last night and it looks like it could work (it was quiet at work).:cool:

got any pics matey, thid idea sounds ery well thought out;)

jimmy
06-08-2006, 04:33 PM
With the cells / motor down the middle, like the Tamiya Impact, you have very centred weight side to side. But front to back the weight is very spread out.
The Xfactory X5 however has the most compact mass of any car I can think of with cells and motor in the centre of the car side to side AND front to back.

I would have thought that was an optimal layout:confused:

BenG
06-08-2006, 05:15 PM
I am going to try pull a failry innovative design, with a RDX style super thin chassis keeping all parts as close to the centre line as possible, using a heavily modifed AE TC4/3 transmission. It's going to include aerodynamically shaped diff cases, reduced wieght, and UBER low c.g. and profile;)

BenG
16-09-2006, 02:57 PM
okay, I have my pics I drew, manufacturing is gonna start uber soon;)

http://www.teamyrd.co.uk/car , check em out, tell me what you think, and if you know anyone who sells carbon fibre and alimnium uber cheap let me know:D

kúv!n
16-09-2006, 07:01 PM
These Designs are outstanding in my opinion!

http://www.teamyrd.co.uk/car/chassis%20top%20view%20copy.jpg

From looking at the pic above the shocks look very cool,and should work very well!

The only worry I have is if it’s going to be belt driven, how strong will the belt be and will it be able to cope with today’s cells and motors?

Keep up the good work, and keep us updated!

Kev

BenG
18-09-2006, 08:10 AM
yeah transmission is from a TA05, so its bullet proof:D

kúv!n
20-09-2006, 09:02 PM
thats good then! :D

BenG
21-09-2006, 06:28 AM
I havr made some new drawings, I will post em up tonight;)

Welshy40
01-06-2007, 08:20 PM
interesting idea, but the cost of doing this shouldnt cost more than fifty quid at the max, as the steering mechanisms are already on the market and the repo of the shocks isnt too hard either.

But i have to agree why change a design that is already a great design to a design that will probably make this car worse.

Welshy40
05-06-2007, 04:06 PM
mmm shaft and belt dont mix as kyosho tried it and the car couldnt handle power, gears on the rear and belt at the front.

Ben here is an idea for you to do and it isnt to hard either. Buy either a losi or associated B4 2wd, and convert to a 4wd, like MIP did fifteen years or so ago. Now ive dabbled with this idea for a while and it isnt difficult. Worth a try dont you think and the cost is minimal as all you need is the car, the belt system and when installed corrct castor blocks and ujs. game on

philly
05-06-2007, 05:30 PM
Mmmm. So in summary:
You've designed and priced up a car basd on the BJ4 design, at $200-$400, without actualy building it.
After a few harsh words from the nay-sayers, you beieved in your design enough to cave in instantly and move on to an Acadamy based car.
Then when that was poo-poo'd you loved the re-thought out plan so much you switched to a Corrolly layout.
All this brainstorming is fine, but why say you have a product, priced and ready, then change it numerous times because of comments on a forum. Surely if you have designd the 'sweet car' you are claiming, you should carry it through no mater what people say?
Unless it's all bovine excreta.;)

DCM
05-06-2007, 05:46 PM
hey look guys, I know Ben has been a little.... erm... eager with his posts, but coem on, lay off now, not much fun keeping reading this

sosidge
05-06-2007, 09:11 PM
Oh I don't know, I'm still finding it quite amusing!

BenG was setting himself up for a MASSIVE fall with all his posts. Yes, he was enthusiastic, but also he didn't have a clue.

Unfortunatley for BenG this isn't the Modelsport UK forum, the people on oOple actually know a thing or two about RC, and could see through his blather from day one.

So let's enjoy this victory for common sense!

Does that make me a nasty person?

PaulRotheram
05-06-2007, 09:22 PM
The on-goings with various members and BenG are really going to have to stop.
At first people were trying to put Ben in his correct place.. but now i'm seeing it as people looking for a reason to do so.. and it is turning in to a form of bullying. An example is bringing this thread back when the last post was on 21/9/2006 just to have a dig at one of Bens past creations.

Leave the guy to it.. if he enjoys doing it then let him do so. I'm not picking sides, but i'm actually sick of seeing this on a family forum now.

Any future posts of blatant digs towards BenG for no reason will be removed by my self, if it continues then warnings will be issued.

I dislike having to take these types of actions as I enjoy to have fun and banter on this forum just as much as anyone.. but this is going on far too long.

jimmy
05-06-2007, 09:38 PM
Welshy brought it back to comment on the car - I agree Ben did come out with stuff that set him up for some 'feedback' lets say, but I don't like to see anyone ripped too much no matter what.
I think Ben has gone to contemplate, and also because this forum is 'sucky', so let's agree to love his memory.

DCM
05-06-2007, 09:45 PM
Thanks, I know he set himself up, against better advice of keeping stum, but there is a fine line between constructive criticism and victimisation, and as I read it felt more the latter of late on this thread and another. Which isn't nice careless of who it is.

Live and love guys.

philly
05-06-2007, 11:27 PM
Anyone who attempts to build a car from scratch is OK by me. I had enough trouble building a kit with instructions. My comments were aimed primarily at those who belittled Ben's ideas with biased opinions of their own. For example just because th BJ4 is a great car in many views doesn't necessarily mean it couldn't be improved in some small way.

I did have a small critism of Ben in that he was swayed from his ideas too quickly by others. But he isn't the first and won't be the last teenager to be in that position.

As for victimisation and bullying? Those are strong terms, especially when directed at one who has shown interest in Ben's efforts in earlier posts and looked forward to seeing the results at his local track, Batley.

Maybe I should sign up for the Modelsport forum and leave those 'who know a thing or two about RC' too it.

Ben, good luck, keep going and prove us all wrong.;)

Lee Martin
06-06-2007, 04:56 PM
HOLD ON!

i need to say one thing...you seem to be designer 2 cars at the same time...2 and 4wd....

pick one and work on that!

not both!

PaulRotheram
06-06-2007, 08:08 PM
As for victimisation and bullying? Those are strong terms, especially when directed at one who has shown interest in Ben's efforts in earlier posts and looked forward to seeing the results at his local track, Batley.


i'm not pointing fingers at yourself, or no one else. my post was a general statement to all as im tired of seeing the digs dragging out.

lets just leave it and get back to the funness of the forum! :)