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Balders
18-06-2011, 02:40 PM
Ok we have Truck nights and vintage nights but we don't seem to have normal nights..

I mean we don't tend to score a 1/10 2&4wd over the course of a few weeks?

Any support for an indoor club championship over the summer?

"Caldi Jump Masters series" every other friday can be a points scoring round same points format as trucks and vintage..

Your thoughts?

Dyna
18-06-2011, 03:49 PM
Yeah ive always thought club championships were a good idea, be a nice change once a month to actually race for something. :)

liam
18-06-2011, 04:30 PM
No series is a series without old skool trophies :)

evilbert
18-06-2011, 06:43 PM
Game on, i'm up for that

chris-on-wheels
18-06-2011, 08:56 PM
Can we have a handicap system? Here come the jokes!!!

Balders
18-06-2011, 11:39 PM
Chris stopping making excuses fir bills track cutting racing technique!

evilbert
19-06-2011, 03:30 PM
i thought this club catered for all levels of ability and experience? In my experience my ability to cut the track is second to none :)

millzy
20-06-2011, 12:26 PM
Club Championship sounds brill.

Im not sure what the format is now days but I remeber that the Vintage championship used the same track once a month....maybe somthing like this for the 10th Buggys? with 2 qualy runs and 2 finals , both final scores counting to make your overall score?

Just a tought, but what ever style you go for Im in.

blue_pinky
20-06-2011, 01:09 PM
Funny you should mention that, Paul and I were talking about this very thing over the weekend! I'd like to do something for sure...but not sure on the best format for it.

Thoughts were...we all race each other week in week out, and pretty much know how we all perform relative to each other...Craig will win if he's racing, and Rob will win if he's racing...or maybe Dave Belston will dominate us all after his storming nationals results this year! But you get the point, we can all pretty much guess the outcome!

Maybe that's actually fine, and we'll just enjoy seeing it happen, and the middle order will challenge for their rightful spot all the same?

But I was just a bit worried it could leave it all a bit of a forgon conclusion without real chance of trophies for most people...so I wanted to try and come up with some sort of format that could mix that up somehow.

How about doubles?

I play badminton in work...and much the same as club racing, there is one person who on his own will wipe the floor with any of us...and we all know roughly who's better than who after that. But put into decent pairings for doubles....it's really close!

So how about this...it's just an idea and open to comment....

We get entries in, and the commitee roughly rank the drivers based on what we know about them. Split the list into 2 halves, randomly draw names from the 2 lists putting one top half driver with one bottom half driver, giving us doubles teams.

Race as normal, qualifiers and finals, scoring like normal then combining the scores of the team members to give the final championship table position.

Depending how seriously it gets taken this would give the bottom half/newer drivers a top half driver to learn a bit from, and give the better guys some variety to their otherwise forgon conclusion outcomes!

We could actually run it alongside an individual championship as well, but just give the main prizes to the team event?

Any good or just rubbish? Any other thoughts from anyone with that in mind? Or would you just prefer to see the individual event run as normal?

Haven't talked to Pete or anyone else about it yet, so there are no definate plans for a championship at this point, but def good to gauge interest and try something a bit new for the club if it's what you all want :)

millzy
20-06-2011, 01:56 PM
Can you imagine the pore kid the gets Bill.....:)

blue_pinky
20-06-2011, 02:37 PM
Oh yeah...hadn't thought of that! Scrub that idea then ;)

Dyna
20-06-2011, 05:15 PM
Andy's idea is probably the most fair, the only other way to do it without pairing the drivers is to run a handicap system.

Easy to do, decided pretty much the same as the above idea - the commitee decide on peoples abilities.

You have a 'rating' decided for everyone in each class i.e. 2wd, 4wd, micro etc etc . Then if you are a Craig or Rob for instance, they have to have 2 laps deducted from their final position ( a -2 rating ). Andy or Owen for example, 1 lap deducted ( a -1 rating ). Some like Balders would be scratch ( 0 rating ) and this is the 'datum line'.

A beginner like me would be for example a ' + 2' rating, which means id get 2 laps added onto my final position.... ;)

Its easy to do, we've used the same basic system for fun tennis tournaments for donkeys years. It does make the competition far closer in direct fun tournaments.

Before you say it, if someone lower ranked does start winning regulary i.e. improving standard quickly, you simply move them up a rating to compensate. Or if someone is at the back regulary, you move them down a rating.

If you feel lap addition/deduction is not the best way to do it, work out the average lap times for a middle standard driver and/subtract a certain amount of time for each level of ability.

The system is very easy, the hardest part is at the start, working peoples abilities. But tbh, most of us have been around for a while, i would think we have a pretty good idea of how good people are, if they are likely to improve quickly etc etc.

And its always a good idea to keep the total levels of abilities low, otherwise it can get confusing - in this case 5 levels would probably do it : -2, -1, 0, +1, +2.

You can still use these as ratings even if you use the 'time' method over the 'laps' method. And you can add an 'most improved driver' catagory as well if you so desired.

sunbeam
20-06-2011, 06:58 PM
A comp may be a good idea, but it will end up being just the people that can always turn up and the good drivers that will win.

In theory it's a good idea, but in practice, I think some will see it as unfair.

Also, the one thing that is nice about the club, is that there is nothing to lose and therefore more relaxed. I think the people that want to win comps tend to already go to the Nats or the Welsh round thing.

I also don't think it is fair that a good driver has to lose points and a beginner gets extra points, it all becomes a farce.

So I would vote in the no camp.

Just my opinion.

Rob.

axeman
20-06-2011, 07:09 PM
This just confuses the sh*t out of me!!!

I am a racing god. :p

Dyna
20-06-2011, 08:30 PM
a) You wouldnt run it every week, maybe once every 3-4 weeks, and like the other series Caldicot run ( Vintage, trucks ), you would have, for example, 5 out of 8 rounds to count thereby giving people a chance to miss a couple of weeks if they couldnt get there for any reason.

b) if someone didnt want to enter the competition that week, then im sure its no problem for a heat or two of 'normal' club driving for those that dont want to run in a competition ? Easy to run both side-by-side if required ? Thats a no-lose solution surely ?

c) Any handicap system you use, mine or Andy's system or anything else for that matter, is to even the results between top and bottom standards... it makes the playing field more level... trust me they work...

d) they are lot easier in practice than written down... :lol:


But just goes to show, no matter what you do, no matter what is suggested, you cant please all of the people all of the time.... :p

liam
20-06-2011, 09:31 PM
Just do an endurance event on a sunday! Teams of 2 or 3 :lol:

sunbeam
20-06-2011, 10:05 PM
Just do an endurance event on a sunday! Teams of 2 or 3 :lol:

You would NEED shades to race against 'The Yellow Perrel' in an endurance !! :lol::lol:

(Unless it has the wrong tyres, then it will be upside down most of the time ! )

Body Paint
20-06-2011, 10:52 PM
I'm with Rob, count me out... Caldi is not about club championships IMHO. Club Champs ALWAYS ends up with bickering and the innevitable crying about someone breaking the rules. People will quickly start to feel that they have to have this or that to compete. Then will come control motors swiftly followed by control tyres... not for me, no thanks.

One off fun meetings are a laugh, as are fun classes but club champs will very quickly take the FUN out of Caldi for a lot of people.. If anyone wants to see what sort of farce club champs turn into pop down to COBRA in the winter when they are argueing about... I mean discussing rules.

Please don't take us down this road

ps. no offence meant to any of the COBRA guys, I'm not being personal, in my experience all club champs have the same back biteing and shouting matches.

peetbee
21-06-2011, 01:25 AM
I've not commented so far as I wanted to see what everone else thought.
A couple of points tho:
Vintage - a competition was created to give some structure to a one off class and because it would be fun - I won it the first year so obviously fancied my chances and ran it for a second year! :)
Trucks - a competition was created last year to try and get them to clean their driving up to try and stop them all being quite so mad. This year was to try and get a semi regular truck heat (which doesn't seem to have been succesful so far)

Now I've said that bit, please let the discussion continue!

Teaboy
21-06-2011, 05:11 AM
I have no real opinion on this as a recent returnee to the sport. My proles during te summer are cotments to full size racing meaing its all a bit hit and miss to making Friday nights. To try to make myself improve i am focused on trying to match then beat other members of the club one at a time, although i cant get anywhere near Sunbeam at the moment !!, this give me the competition at the moment. From years ago i remember having to runs stock motors on championship nights which was a pain sometimes. I recon bring on more full days racing live Easter!!!

Cheers

Rich

ps not meaning to upset anyone as a newbie!!!!

Balders
21-06-2011, 08:55 AM
ok I'm not reading all that, its far too long, but I get the gist.. :)

how about then if we scrap the championship type thing.. How about at the end of the night instead of all the results going in the bin they get uploaded somewhere so if anyone wants to track their progress week after week they can?

I know the laptop saves all the results and has done for the last few years but it would be good to be able to access those on-line, maybe off the back of the caldi website?

If people are interested in that I'll come up with a way that these can be easily uploaded somewhere so they are accessible for all?

sunbeam
21-06-2011, 09:31 AM
Now that's a GOOD idea :thumbsup:

I'm glued to the wall or computer screen when at the club. Sometimes there is no time to look, but I do like to see how myself and Alisha are doing.

I think I've now found a set-up that I can use, so times should now start to become more constant and a little quicker. To have all the results on line would be really good to studdy in my own time rather than a mad rush after the race.

Club night is about racing yourself and enjoyment. How many times have you heard somebody say, "don't worry, it's only club night" ?

Just my opinion.

Rob :)

evilbert
21-06-2011, 12:46 PM
if you do do that, can you make sure that you put a picture or sketch of the track alongside the results.

blue_pinky
21-06-2011, 01:14 PM
So after reading the posts here, main things that stand out for me...

1) Some people would like to add a little more formal competition.

2) We already know who will win straight RC style championships...but the results down the list would be contested more closely.

3) Caldi is for fun....and it's fun because it's not run for formal competitive bragging rights...just banter!

4) Those who crave the competition factor do it at regionals and nationals anyway.

5) Championships at club level can bring rules, strictness and arguments that stop it being fun.


Sounds to me like Mikes last suggestion is a very sensible one! We can stick to having single day one off competitions (like Chrimbo and Easter bash) to give the old skool trophies out :) That or come up with other types of championships like the trucks and vintage, maybe a newbie cup, under 16's or something? Maybe just to give the younger/newer people a taste for competition if that's what they'd like.

Personally...I'm not fussed, I'm in the 'getting my competition from regionals/nationals' camp, so it doesn't bother me. I like my Fridays to be relaxed and fun! Both in the racing and the organising :D

However...I do understand that some people might like something to challange for at times...and as a club we should listen to you guys to make sure we're making it as fun and intersting as we can.

We'll look into Mikes idea too...that could be pretty easy and would be cool to see...lets chat Friday dude..you there?

peetbee
21-06-2011, 01:24 PM
Regardless of what we do for competitions uploading results to the website would be a great idea - Mikey & Andy, is it possible to have our site updateable by someone as simple as me, then between the 3 of us we can keep it up to date (lapsfree will save it as html).

Something I've noticed is that even those who aren't fussed about competitions always like to get in as high a final as possible*. So if we always run finals plus post the results (and the qualifying?) on the website would that be a good compromise for now?


* That includes me and I never look at the printouts!

JACKOR33
21-06-2011, 01:35 PM
How to make results easy for everyone to see:

1) rclaps exports heats and finals to HTML doc
2) Use a free HTML to jpg conversion software and produce. Jpg of both
3) Create a Results thread here on oople in your section
4) upload jpg of results and also scan copy of track layout

Simple and effective :-)

sunbeam
21-06-2011, 02:40 PM
I love the personal callange from week to week to get as high as I can. It's a real bummer when there are no finals.

So I for one, would always like to run a final, and a print out on Oople would be very good. Maybe just make a 'sticky results' for Cali ?

Balders
21-06-2011, 02:48 PM
I'll bring a USB stick on friday and stick all the results that are on the laptop for the last few months/years up so you can all take a look at them and see how useful they are. If they are something you would all like to see then we can start doing that. Who ever takes the laptop would need to upload them though each week, unless we find some wifi at club to use or get a payg data dongle type thing to upload it at the end of the night.

as for hosting it somewhere and setting up the ability to do it that's really not a problem and can be done very easily..

Body Paint
21-06-2011, 09:01 PM
Regardless of what we do for competitions uploading results to the website would be a great idea - Mikey & Andy, is it possible to have our site updateable by someone as simple as me, then between the 3 of us we can keep it up to date (lapsfree will save it as html).

Something I've noticed is that even those who aren't fussed about competitions always like to get in as high a final as possible*. So if we always run finals plus post the results (and the qualifying?) on the website would that be a good compromise for now?


* That includes me and I never look at the printouts!


Harris is Happy :)

Jamie.T
21-06-2011, 09:08 PM
Exporting the data from laps fee is very simple. At Caldicots WRCA round last year i "stole" the results off the laptop and uploaded direct to my server.

Heres an example of how the data would be shown http://www.swansearc.co.uk/results_folder/wrca/caldicot/f7r5.html

DCM
25-06-2011, 03:37 PM
I'm with Rob, count me out... Caldi is not about club championships IMHO. Club Champs ALWAYS ends up with bickering and the innevitable crying about someone breaking the rules. People will quickly start to feel that they have to have this or that to compete. Then will come control motors swiftly followed by control tyres... not for me, no thanks.

One off fun meetings are a laugh, as are fun classes but club champs will very quickly take the FUN out of Caldi for a lot of people.. If anyone wants to see what sort of farce club champs turn into pop down to COBRA in the winter when they are argueing about... I mean discussing rules.

Please don't take us down this road

ps. no offence meant to any of the COBRA guys, I'm not being personal, in my experience all club champs have the same back biteing and shouting matches.

Craig, I totally agree, they are more hassle than they are worth, and to be honest, I just want to race and not see people bumped down the heat list cause they are not in the champs.