Newby with a madrat!

[Barney448]

Hi All, complete newby here and was looking for some advice on setting up a Madrat that I've just bought from e-bay.

I was on a bit of a budget and the reviews for this buggy looked good and for just over 60 quid I bagged myself a mad rat in good condition with everything needed to take it out for a play!

However, before I start playing with my new toy I figured it will be sensible to give it a bit of an overhaul first and check all the suspension works smoothly and the screws are not loose or spun.

Now what I know about RC racing can be written on the back of a postage stamp but I'm aware this is a budget model and was wondering what I should be thinking about upgrading on the buggy in order to make it handle better? My intention is to play about with it at a park or bmx track first (basically anywhere that I can mock up a little track) but then I'd like to take it racing at a couple of local clubs when I'm more confident.

Being a newby I'm not to fussed about putting a powerful motor in there as it will probably just make it even harder to handle, so I'm thinking I should concentrate on getting the suspension and geometry right? It has already got the ballraces on all four corners, is it worth putting some better shocks on the buggy? does it matter what make of shock I should get as I've read that some people use shocks from an Associated B4 - do these shocks simply fit straight on to the madrat?

Apologies for the waffling e-mail and barrage of questions, any advice will be most appreciated.

[ConceptRacing]

Have a read through some of the older posts regarding set up and what people use on thier Rats, some very good advice and ideas. I know thats not very helpful but it does save everyone repeating everything thats already posted.

[Mad-Wolfie]

the set-up from the manual (as in if you build the car how the manual suggests) is very good. As a rule of thumb though (if you haven't already) fit a bearing set instead of the brass bushes. if you haven't got a manual as you got the car off the bay of E, you can download one from the Ansmann website

IMHO the kit shocks are awful, the tops pop off on landings so consider an upgrade. the B4 shocks "should" fit but a lot of people are running Losi shocks. On mine though (as i'm also on a tight budget) i've upgraded to the Ansmann alloy bodied shocks (Fastrax do pretty much identical shocks) but put the kit internals & springs on them & they are a huge improvement i.e. replacing the horrid & feeble plastic bodies for metal ones. Also the holes in the pistons have been bored out to 1.6mm which you can do on the kit shocks which means the damping action is a lot smoother which is good if you are chucking the car about a fair bit

The only other changes i made was to add lead weight around the Servo & put some 2mm spacers under the ball-studs located in the nose of the car so the camber link bars are level with the wishbones which calms the steering down, from there it's just a case of learning the car & what the changes to things like shock position, tyre choice & link & tie-rod dimensions etc do to affect the way the car behaves on different surfaces or finding what would suit you.

Other than that, what Eric says is spot on. :thumbsup:

Hope this helps

[minke]

Order in which to upgrade ( my opinion)

Fully ballraced
ceramic balls and thrust bearings for the diff
shocks - xpro,B4, xxxcr, or big bores if you have the budget, just dont skimp on cheapo ones
Steel screw kit
Motor mount
Aluminium rear wishbone mounts
Aluminium servo mounts (if you add a powerful servo)
Adjustable turnbuckles

I've not found that any of the other aluminium upgrades arent really necessary, but certainly wont hurt. The plastic parts break that infrequently, to me at least it dont justify the cost.

get a spare kit for parts.

some lead or r/c weights will help with balance, mine used to lean on jumps till I balanced it out and still tinker with weight under the servo depending on the track.

[deano261]

i was in the same position as you i boutght a standard mad rat and i upgraded the motor to a 6.5t with esc and a lipo (the lipo is a must) and put race bearings in. i then bought a set of B4 v2 shocks (the v1 are the same with a few minor differences) and they fit straight on. but thats what i did and it is pretty damned quick now

[Barney448]

Thanks very much for the tips guys.

I have been reading through all of the older posts with great interest. Thankfully the rat has already been ball raced but I shall also be checking to see if it has the bearings in the diff. I think I'm going to get a set of B4 shocks aswell and see how they work. And I'll also look at adding weight under the servo

I'd definitely like to get a brushless motor and esc set-up in the car but that will come as and when I have the money and have honed my driving skills! One thing I'm concious of is that my local club run size limits on the motors that you can use (27t b or 13.5t bl). However, I'd definitely like to switchover to lipo's and was wondering whether I need to change anything on the buggy in order to use them instead of the nimh batteries with the existing brushless set-up? Do they just use the same connectors as the nimh?

Do you suggest getting the steel screw kit as the existing ones are soft and very easy to overtighten? I'm thinking a bit of threadlock wouldn't go a miss either.

Thanks again for your advice

[Robbiejuk]

I am assuming you have tamiya style connectors, two white plugs that can only be connected up together one way. You can get lipo batteries with these connectors pre-installed, they are usually a tamiya style battery, so a stick pack with rounded edges and are classed as an upgrade from the nimh packs for tamiya owners as many tamiya chasis are designed just to take this shape and style of battery.

I would strongly advise the use of another style of connector as the tamiya when put under high load, especially in racing, tend to get very hot and melt together making them impossible to get apart.

I would advise getting either Deans style connectors like these ones,

http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/public/EhIBkBxF_5NvrWrAEy6--raSsq_BWuR2YGvxEYNOE9StfQCMMv2RaLcjSL8k5zDNHChJogE Jn2hSmbn4v_jFNA7vEdEZrSNgh3net3xKq-7Z5HiIVWZMRMf1YtBM_wl6kYo48Zf8nJgd_pjPwVksivFZHn9h

Or corally style connectors like these:

http://www.apexmodels.com/media/gbu0/prodlg/JE-34.jpg

The most commonly used are the corrally style in racing but they can be accidently connected up the wrong way. 90% of competition packs already have the female version of the corrally connecters pre installed.

The deans style can only be connected up one way and can take a bigger load so as a new starter I would suggest going for the deans.

One final thing if you are changing a connector on the battery be very careful that when you dissconnect the original connector that you don't short the battery wires together, I would recommend remove one wire at a time and then tape up the wire you have just removed before removing the other one. Then solder one of the wires on to the new connector before un taping the other one. Would hate to see your new battery go pop before you have even used it :thumbsup:

[Cameo]

Thanks very much for the tips guys.

I have been reading through all of the older posts with great interest. Thankfully the rat has already been ball raced but I shall also be checking to see if it has the bearings in the diff. I think I'm going to get a set of B4 shocks aswell and see how they work. And I'll also look at adding weight under the servo

Try the shocks from the pro kit rather than the B4 shocks. I've ran AE cars prior to trying these cars, I promise you the pro shocks ARE better that the AE. Much smoother and the standard pistons suit the modern setups for Lipo/Brushless cars.

Weight under servo and lipo will certainly assist the stability of the car.

[Mad-Wolfie]

However, I'd definitely like to switchover to lipo's and was wondering whether I need to change anything on the buggy in order to use them instead of the nimh batteries with the existing brushless set-up? Do they just use the same connectors as the nimh?

you could (when upgrading to brushless) buy an ESC that is LiPo safe & also check your radio is LiPo friendly. the only other thing which you would need is a LiPo friendly charger as a lot of cheaper chargers are not able to charge the LiPo's

[Barney448]

Thanks, any ideas where I can get some pro shocks from? (I'm guessing you're referring to the Ansmann x-pro shocks?)

I've taken delivery of my rat today and am happy as a pig in the proverbial. It's plenty quick enough for me, the motor and esc have been upgraded from the standard Ansmann kit (Nosram esc, can't tell what the motor is but could be ORE modified?) I notice that the esc doesn't have reverse, is this normal?

Happily the batteries already have the deans adapters so an upgrade to lipo should be easy. It already has the bearings all round so I think the first job will be to change the shocks as the standard ones appear to have leaked a little.

[Robbiejuk]

Cheapest way to get the X-pro shocks would be to order the alloy bodies and the plastic internal shock tops. We did that with one of our club members, saved him quite a bit of cash. You already have all the internal bits with your standard shocks so it is just case of taking them apart and putting on the new bits.

I am sure mr dodd from autocare and cycles will be along with some part numbers for you :thumbsup:

[Dave Dodd]

Cheapest way to get the X-pro shocks would be to order the alloy bodies and the plastic internal shock tops. We did that with one of our club members, saved him quite a bit of cash. You already have all the internal bits with your standard shocks so it is just case of taking them apart and putting on the new bits.

I am sure mr dodd from autocare and cycles will be along with some part numbers for you :thumbsup:

cheers Rob :)

The part numbers are:
125000465 x 1 front set rrp £19.99 a pair
125000466 x 1 rear set rrp £19.99 a pair
125000430 x 2 top & bottom plastic parts rrp £3.99 a pair

also my mate Ash. uses an X2C with the std diff balls which just gets re greased now and again..

hope this helps :)

[Mad-Wolfie]

How Much!!!

as i said earlier i bought the alloy shocks & fitted the kit internals & springs to them & they are a huge improvment on the kit shocks

to do the same you need these - both are about £10 a pair

201000039 - 95mm shocks for the rear
201000037 - 75mm shocks for the front
(you could also use the 85mm if you want more to tune the travel using spacers & o-rings on the shock shafts, personally i'm running the 85mm shocks & have put a collar on the shaft on the inside of the shock to limit the travel)

simply take these apart so you are left with the metal shock bodies, then strip the kit shocks & replace the shaft, piston & bottom eyelet & refit the springs from the kit shocks onto the alloy bodies, you could just refit the springs & bottom eyelet if you prefer to save yourself the hassle of stripping the whole shock down if you don't feel confident but as the springs that come fitted on the alloy shocks are pretty solid, they are no use nor ornament. you will need a 2mm spacer or a couple of small washers for the top of the shocks so they stand-off the shock towers.

[adamjimny]

the full shock set is only £26 for each end and then keep standard ones as a source of spare parts. thats all i did

[Dave Dodd]

How Much!!!

.


thats for the xpro green threaded shock bodies no extra washers required just fit & forget. :)

[Barney448]

To be honest I think I'd prefer to do as adamjimny said and get a new set of x pro shocks and keep the originals for spare. Whereabouts can you get them for £26 ?

Also on the list of things to get are:

New stainless steel screws
Couple of decent batteries (sticking with nimh for now)
2.4ghz receiver and transmitter (I have an old acoms combo at the mo and would quite like one of the wheel receivers)
I also need to get some tools, am guessing a small set of allen/hex keys, small phillips, pliers and spanners will suffice.

[Robbiejuk]

To be honest I think I'd prefer to do as adamjimny said and get a new set of x pro shocks and keep the originals for spare. Whereabouts can you get them for £26 ?


That is 26 quid a pair I believe. So would be 52 pounds in total. Save yourself a tenner going the rebuild route, and save yourself even more going the Mad wolfie route. :thumbsup:

The difference between the two shocks is negible, The x-pro one have threaded collars so no loosing the clips after a crash and also with a bleed hole on the top they are a doddle to get right when changing shock oils.

As you say if you have the money then buy a new set and keep the others as spares.

[jamie 6.5t]

right i have an ansmann madrat and i have loved it ever since i brought it i have worked out that ive spent around 450 quid on the car all together on parts and the car its self but i had a crash last week just after i fitted it with a fusion exceed pro6.5t motor due to it being a lot quicker and harder to handle in the proses i have snapped my wing and snapped my servo mounting so pritty much redeamrd my car useless and i am finding the parts quite dificult ordering the parts please help me on where to order my parts from ? :/

[chris brown]

Try looking on ebay. Just search mad rat.
You can also try J.E.Spares too.

[jamie 6.5t]

thanks for the idea i tryed it and still couldnt find the servo mount wich is the most important part of the car :/

[Battle_axe]

whats the pt no?

[ConceptRacing]

part number 125000310

[Barney448]

Aren't the servo mounts fairly standard parts across the range of buggies? you should be able to replace this with any part. In any case just google "ANSMANN SERVO MOUNT" and I found the standard mad rat part for less that £2.

Completely unrelated question but I was wondering what sort of nimh battery people run with their brushed motors on the mad rat. I'm looking to get a couple of new batteries and wasn't sure if it was just a case of getting a 7.2v battery with as high a Mah rating as possible. I've seen a couple with the deans connectors which are 3600mah?

[budgio]

Go lipo mate
Nimh are old hat these days
Dead money I say

[adamjimny]

i agree with budgio....go lipo

1.more power
2.more efficient
3.more reliable
4.more consistent
5.cheaper than nimh now
6. easier to store without the worry of things touching
7.hold their value better

nimh are only really used in mardaves and other cars where people are waiting for them to die.....but soon it will all be lipo

[Barney448]

Fair enough, couldn't agree more about getting Lipo's they certainly seem to be the more popular choice and also perform better. The only reason I'm not going to go down that route is because I'm due to get married around this time next year and any disposable income is paying for the big day!

Yes another man down!!

I've sold my beloved motocross bike to raise funds and have bought a fairly well specced mad rat off ebay to help quench my racing thirst! I'm enjoying playing around with it at the local park and definitely want to go racing at some point but can't really afford to buy a new charger and esc to enable me to run lipo's. It's unlikely I'll ever be able to afford to race motocross again so I reckon rc racing is the way forward and if I'm still full of enthusiasm after the wedding then I shall almost certainly invest in something a bit more top end.

[Mad-Wolfie]

Aren't the servo mounts fairly standard parts across the range of buggies? you should be able to replace this with any part. In any case just google "ANSMANN SERVO MOUNT" and I found the standard mad rat part for less that £2.

talking servo mounts,, a lot of people are saying on the various forums etc they recommend to fit the alloy mounts if the servo you are using is a powerful one, i'm running a Futaba S9451 servo in my rat which is a high response servo (i.e bloody fast) & has someting like 8.5kg of torque & am finding the kit mounts are more than substantial enough, so IMHO the only reason to go for the alloy mounts is for the bling factor.

Plus i would of though removing any flex from the mounts would only transfer stress to either the servo body or direct to the cars chassis & personally i would happily live with a £2 part breaking once in a blue moon & a quick fix.

[Cameo]

Completely unrelated question but I was wondering what sort of nimh battery people run with their brushed motors on the mad rat. I'm looking to get a couple of new batteries and wasn't sure if it was just a case of getting a 7.2v battery with as high a Mah rating as possible. I've seen a couple with the deans connectors which are 3600mah?

I've sold my beloved motocross bike to raise funds and have bought a fairly well specced mad rat off ebay to help quench my racing thirst! I'm enjoying playing around with it at the local park and definitely want to go racing at some point but can't really afford to buy a new charger and esc to enable me to run lipo's.

The cost of a couple of nimh packs would be the same as a lipo (you only need one to go racing) and a capable charger. A sppedie with Lipo cut off is just a safety thing it wont let the lipo get below 6 volts. You wont need that feature if you only run your lipo for 6-7 mins and keep the voltage well above 6.

DONT waste your money on nimh packs get 1 lipo and a cheap 2S balance charger best investment ever.