View Full Version : Rear hub bearings ?
andys
11-09-2011, 07:10 PM
Noticed my rear hub bearings had died today, anyone reccomend somewhere to get a new set, or indeed a full car bearing set ?
Ta.
captainlip
11-09-2011, 07:13 PM
Click my link, 410 kits are in stock also, you will not be dissapointed :thumbsup:
At the moment though I only do complete kits. Individual bearings available in the near future.
mikeyscott
11-09-2011, 07:37 PM
www.rcbearings.co.uk are brilliant and cover many models. I used them on my old D410R
captainlip
11-09-2011, 08:13 PM
Rc bearings use Abec1 rated bearings as stated here -
http://www.rcbearings.co.uk/index.php?main_page=page&id=4&chapter=4
The next level is abec3 rated which i used in the "budget" kits, then the next up are the Abec5 rated and considerably better, all the kits I now sell are the Abec5 rated, nothing less :thumbsup:
TheReferee
11-09-2011, 08:27 PM
Rc bearings use Abec1 rated bearings as stated here -
http://www.rcbearings.co.uk/index.php?main_page=page&id=4&chapter=4
The next level is abec3 rated which i used in the "budget" kits, then the next up are the Abec5 rated and considerably better, all the kits I now sell are the Abec5 rated, nothing less :thumbsup:
why is an abec 3 or 5 bearing "considerably better"?
captainlip
11-09-2011, 08:38 PM
why is an abec 3 or 5 bearing "considerably better"?
the higher the rating the more spherical the bearing, the tolerances are much tighter, the better the ball the more free the bearing runs and smoother operating.
edit -
this is worth a read if interested
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABEC_scale
TheReferee
11-09-2011, 09:03 PM
the higher the rating the more spherical the bearing, the tolerances are much tighter, the better the ball the more free the bearing runs and smoother operating.
edit -
this is worth a read if interested
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABEC_scale
really? abec ratings have got jack shit to do with the ball used, balls are graded on a different spec, you are comparing your abec 5 bearings to the other companies abec 1 bearings and telling us your bearings are considerably better!!, when actually a wheel fitted with your bearings will rotate at exactly the same speed, and in reality due to the application as an rc car wheel bearing an abec 1 bearing is a better choice than a higher abec spec.
captainlip
11-09-2011, 09:19 PM
I never said it would spin faster, but certainly more efficent.
And it has alot to do with the spherical tollerances of the balls used.
Be my guest and buy Abec1 rated bearings, im not here to convince you if you think Abec1 are better.
TheReferee
11-09-2011, 09:25 PM
rather than some dubious wikipedia perhaps this quote from SKF
Precision ABEC 5 and ABEC 7 bearings
http://www.skf.com/images/space.gif
Precision ball bearings in tolerance grades ABEC-5 and ABEC-7 are recommended for applications where high speed and/or extreme running accuracy is required.
These bearings have the same nominal external dimensions as equivalent size ABEC-1 grade bearings; however, the running characteristics and external dimensions are held to closer tolerances.
we require these bearings in the motors but not the wheels or transmission, we fit the bearings into moulded plastic wheels and put them through shafts which can in no way be described as precision fits, a higher tolerence bearing is more susceptable to failure due to water /dirt ingress and to keep its tight tolerences requires constant lubrication.
so feel free to spend money on a bearing which will fail sooner due to the application, cost more to replace and offer no performance increase over the abec 1 bearings
TheReferee
11-09-2011, 09:27 PM
I never said it would spin faster, but certainly more efficent.
And it has alot to do with the spherical tollerances of the balls used.
Be my guest and buy Abec1 rated bearings, im not here to convince you if you think Abec1 are better.
which has nothing to do with the abec rating!
TheReferee
11-09-2011, 09:30 PM
I never said it would spin faster, but certainly more efficent.
And it has alot to do with the spherical tollerances of the balls used.
Be my guest and buy Abec1 rated bearings, im not here to convince you if you think Abec1 are better.
surely your whole point in posting on this thread is to convince me your bearings are better than the other company mentioned?
captainlip
11-09-2011, 09:35 PM
surely your whole point in posting on this thread is to convince me your bearings are better than the other company mentioned?
NOT at all!
Secondly the bearings are also rubber shielded. yes the abec5 works for high RPM fittings, but for everything else they are CERTAINLY an improvement over standard and cheap kits.
If they werent I wouldnt spend my own time and money with these.
Finally I made 2 posts and youve turned this thread into a whole farce about how im trying to say im trying to convince you all my bearings are the best.
IN FACT all I was doing was pointing out that they are a much higher quality bearing than others sold, if your happy to run basic cheap bearings then thats your choice, but for the latter I offer a higher quality sealed bearings that i DONT force you to buy.
TheReferee
11-09-2011, 09:46 PM
NOT at all!
Secondly the bearings are also rubber shielded. yes the abec5 works for high RPM fittings, but for everything else they are CERTAINLY an improvement over standard and cheap kits.
How?,they dont spin faster,dont last as long and cost more
If they werent I wouldnt spend my own time and money with these.
you would if it was in your commercial interest to convince people to buy
Finally I made 2 posts and youve turned this thread into a whole farce about how im trying to say im trying to convince you all my bearings are the best.
the original poster asked for somewhere to buy bearings, you answered and someone else suggested an alternative you then proceeded to post that your abec rating was better than theirs and therfore yours were "certainly better"
IN FACT all I was doing was pointing out that they are a much higher quality bearing than others sold, if your happy to run basic cheap bearings then thats your choice, but for the latter I offer a higher quality sealed bearings that i DONT force you to buy.
they are indeed a higher quality bearing which is completely unsuitable for the end application
captainlip
11-09-2011, 09:53 PM
they are indeed a higher quality bearing which is completely unsuitable for the end application
They ARE VERY suitable for the end application and your opinion that they dont last as long is extremely incorrect.
I only pointed out that the ABEC rating is higher than the others and jumped on the band wagon talking nonsense about being unsuitable and shorter lifespan.
these bearings have had extensive testing and have been running these bearings myself with better sucess than standard bearings, I wouldnt use any other bearing since using these.
this may be your opinion on the matter and yes it differs from mine, if your not convinced then im not going to convince you, but have you had experiance with different rated bearings and lifespan of each bearing? because you sound like you have but are then stating that an adequate bearing is inadequate and the longer lifespan is in fact a shorter lifespan.
Both those statements are very untrue.
bodgit
11-09-2011, 10:14 PM
Taken from RZBOYZ
TOLERANCES:
Tolerances refer to how closely the moving parts fit together. There is an incorrect assumption about tolerances that started with the Skateboarding crowd that the tighter the tolerance, the better the bearing and the higher performance you will get out of those bearings. This is true to a point - the tolerances on a bearing needs to be tight enough to prevent "wobble" and other performance reducing problems. As tolerances become too tight, however, friction inside the bearing starts to increase and the performance will begin to suffer. You need lubrication and enough space for the bearing to spin freely. The Tolerances in a bearing are described by an ABEC or ISO number. The Higher the ABEC number, the tighter the tolerances. Bearings must reach a certain tolerance level (such as a width to achieve and ABEC rating. We have found that ABEC-1 bearings work well for light use, but ABEC-3 bearings are the best for hard use or racing. We have found that ABEC-5 bearings offer slower lap times. Make sure you ask your seller what for the ratings on their bearings - if they don't know or won't tell you, they are probably selling the cheaper ABEC-1 or even non-ABEC rated bearings.
TheReferee
11-09-2011, 10:20 PM
They ARE VERY suitable for the end application and your opinion that they dont last as long is extremely incorrect.
why?
I only pointed out that the ABEC rating is higher than the others and jumped on the band wagon talking nonsense about being unsuitable and shorter lifespan.
they are and have
these bearings have had extensive testing and have been running these bearings myself with better sucess than standard bearings, I wouldnt use any other bearing since using these.
you have test data to back this claim
this may be your opinion on the matter and yes it differs from mine, if your not convinced then im not going to convince you, but have you had experiance with different rated bearings and lifespan of each bearing? because you sound like you have but are then stating that an adequate bearing is inadequate and the longer lifespan is in fact a shorter lifespan.
Both those statements are very untrue.
yes not sure what you mean why?
i am not jumping on a bandwagon, i just dont want to see people who use this site getting advice to buy items which are not necessary or have higher spec than required. the problem you have is the RC community comes from a wide spectrum of society and professions, for example i spent today at a race meeting, in the tent we were sharing we had a retired chief engineer from british steel, a graphic designer from a major rc company, two degree qualified specialists in marketing, a manager from Hewlett packard, two rc customer support people and an engineering manager from the Food industry. you pick a subject and i can guarantee there is a specialist in that area on this site, make claims about your bearings but dont get the arse when somebody picks you up on that.
andys
12-09-2011, 06:57 AM
Crikey, I now know a lot more about bearings :)
So, which rating are the kit items that have failed ?
captainlip
12-09-2011, 07:30 AM
Taken from RZBOYZ
TOLERANCES:
Tolerances refer to how closely the moving parts fit together. There is an incorrect assumption about tolerances that started with the Skateboarding crowd that the tighter the tolerance, the better the bearing and the higher performance you will get out of those bearings. This is true to a point - the tolerances on a bearing needs to be tight enough to prevent "wobble" and other performance reducing problems. As tolerances become too tight, however, friction inside the bearing starts to increase and the performance will begin to suffer. You need lubrication and enough space for the bearing to spin freely. The Tolerances in a bearing are described by an ABEC or ISO number. The Higher the ABEC number, the tighter the tolerances. Bearings must reach a certain tolerance level (such as a width to achieve and ABEC rating. We have found that ABEC-1 bearings work well for light use, but ABEC-3 bearings are the best for hard use or racing. We have found that ABEC-5 bearings offer slower lap times. Make sure you ask your seller what for the ratings on their bearings - if they don't know or won't tell you, they are probably selling the cheaper ABEC-1 or even non-ABEC rated bearings.
They most certainly DO NOT result in slower laptimes! I'd in testing have found the ABEC5 offer No LOSS in performance, those who made these claims are incorrect.
TheReferee
12-09-2011, 08:46 AM
They most certainly DO NOT result in slower laptimes! I'd in testing have found the ABEC5 offer No LOSS in performance, those who made these claims are incorrect.
please supply your test data for the above claim, what testing ? to what standard?
captainlip
12-09-2011, 09:16 AM
please supply your test data for the above claim, what testing ? to what standard?
the captainlip standard, nuff said! Id like to see the test results for their claim saying they believe abec5 actually results in slower lap times :rolleyes: or could that be because they only want to sell abec3 rated bearings.....
TheReferee
12-09-2011, 09:22 AM
Crikey, I now know a lot more about bearings :)
So, which rating are the kit items that have failed ?
Andy
i dont know what rating the bearings TD supply are, however they are a reputable company who pride themseles on engineering a product, so i would think they have the correct standard for its application.
your rear wheel bearing failure was probably due to the wet/sand followed by dry/sand conditions of yesterday, as you are now aware purchasing a bearing purely on its Abec rating is pointless. in your case i would look at what winter racing you are going to do, how much maintainance you want to do and finally how deep your pockets are.
if you intend running a lot over the winter and will run at RHR then your bearings are going to take a hammering. high quality rubber sheilded and you will still probably go through a few.
if your maintainance regime is to chuck the car in the boot and have a look at it later in the week then dont bother with high end bearings, by the time you take them out it will be too late.
in your case i would either buy a few cheap bearings and throw them away regularly, or get some higher spec bearings from a reputable source and keep them clean/oiled. you may find an email to TD asking about where they source bearings will get you an answer as not all RC companies supply the kits with cheap grade bearings and the kit ones may be better than you think. if you go for an aftermarket bearing then go with a reputable supplier and preferably with a supplier who is recommended to you.
TheReferee
12-09-2011, 09:29 AM
the captainlip standard, nuff said! Id like to see the test results for their claim saying they believe abec5 actually results in slower lap times :rolleyes: or could that be because they only want to sell abec3 rated bearings.....
i also would like to see test results from you and them, however neither is likely to happen, you are misleading fellow forum members about your bearings and you are misleading them for your own financial gain. you are a fool.
captainlip
12-09-2011, 09:48 AM
EXACTLY how am I misleading people? I sell high quality rubber shielded bearings that are a higher grade than others that ARE suitable for the application!
I'm not forcing anyone to buy some, I buy my bearings from a VERY well established company from the EU and not from china like the lower grade I tried out and proved to give poorer results.
I have sold over 25 bearing kits now and not had any complaints or heard of any failures like you claim would happen! Ive had a number of repeat customers also in the small time ive been offering this service.
jkclifford
12-09-2011, 09:55 AM
For winter racing I pop the covers off and use waterproof grease. I'm still using kit bearing 18months old. I know this makes em drag a little but not as muched as one that is seased.
When it dries out turps em out and re oil.
Not everyone has a massive budget, or even the inclination to spend it.
andys
12-09-2011, 10:07 AM
if your maintainance regime is to chuck the car in the boot and have a look at it later in the week then dont bother with high end bearings, by the time you take them out it will be too late.
Yep - that's me :)
I'll just get some cheap ones then and if they die - so be it. I'll be running mainly inside from now on anyway.
Cheers for all the info guys.
bodgit
12-09-2011, 10:51 AM
the captainlip standard, nuff said! Id like to see the test results for their claim saying they believe abec5 actually results in slower lap times :rolleyes: or could that be because they only want to sell abec3 rated bearings.....
I and others would like to see what your results are based on. You have not been racing long but lead everyone to believe you are an expert and only your opinion counts.
RZBOYZ have been in the rc industry for many, many years longer than you. I would take their opinion above someone who cant tighten a wheel nut properly every time.
Have a read of this fully or just the bit I have posted for you. No doubt you will rubbish a highly regarded rc supplier who dares to offer an opinion that does not agree with you. You have just jumped in thinking the higher the number the better the bearing. the ref has tried to explain things to you, but you still wont accept anyone else could know more than you.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350489262645?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%3A80%2 Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dp4712.m570 .l1313%26_nkw%3D350489262645%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1
How Freely the Seal lets the bearing spin is directly related to the performance of the bearings. A rubber sealed bearing offers lower performance than the other types of seals because the rubber seal is actually in contact with the inner workings of the bearing, which results in higher friction as the balls rub against the rubber seals. Metal Shields, Teflon, and Polyamide Seals are "non-contact" as they are held in place away from the inner workings of the bearing. They let the bearing spin easier and offer noticeably higher performance
TheReferee
12-09-2011, 10:57 AM
EXACTLY how am I misleading people? I sell high quality rubber shielded bearings that are a higher grade than others that ARE suitable for the application!
I'm not forcing anyone to buy some, I buy my bearings from a VERY well established company from the EU and not from china like the lower grade I tried out and proved to give poorer results.
I have sold over 25 bearing kits now and not had any complaints or heard of any failures like you claim would happen! Ive had a number of repeat customers also in the small time ive been offering this service.
how are you misleading people?. you say you have extensively tested these products. yet on two occasions when asked have failed to provide any data on when where etc.
you make statements of fact about your bearings but cannot supply any back up data, faster lap times/slower lap times, long lasting/shorter lasting.
you claim abec 5 bearings have rounder balls, when in fact the abec rating has nothing to do with the balls.
you say you have sold 25 kits, is that to 25 people you lied to with your advertising or 25 people who made an informed choice having been given the facts.
Abec ratings refer to the accuracy of the bearing to its stated dimensions, it has nothing to do with the quality of materials used in its manufacture or the grade of ball within the bearing.
buying a bearing with an abec rating of 5 or above does not give you a bearing that is faster or long lasting. the reality is higher abec bearings are more closely toleranced and will require more maintainance and will fail quicker when subjected to enviromental impacts such as water/dirt etc.
you could in theory buy an abec bearing made of cheese/wood/putty as long as it was dimensionally accurate it would get an abec rating.
now you can use the assumption that a bearing manufacturer who has gone to the trouble of making a bearing to a high abec rating will also have used a quality grade metal for the races,balls and cages. will supply the bearing pre lubed with a quality lubricant and with seals that actually seal.
you can buy high abec rated bearings made from poor quality materials you can also buy lower rated abec bearings made from high quality materials.
which type are you buying?
miura
12-09-2011, 12:22 PM
WOW I`ve only been a member on here a few days and there seems to be quite a lot of friction between posting members.FUNNY that on a bearing thread EH!!
Well just to establish the truth on this whole Abec DRAMA!!
Abec ratings are proof of the tolerances between the outer shell to ball and from ball to inner shell or vice versa which ever way your inclined to looking at the bearing.
Now an Abec 1 bearing would more likely to produce more slop in axle applications etc Than something like an Abec 5 would.
An Abec 1 would produce much more vibration at high revs than an Abec 3 would.
Yet an Abec 3 would not neccessarily spool up faster than an Abec 1 for instance.Well that`s not completely true.
IF ALL the other components are balanced in the area of application.
This is where things can start to get silly as these are toy cars and not dental drills hehe.Anyway i hope you all in disagreement find your peace.:woot: May i just be clear here I`m not taking sides of any members posting THEIR opinions I`m just explaining what i`ve learn`t in the work place over the last 25 yrs.
captainlip
12-09-2011, 02:34 PM
WOW I`ve only been a member on here a few days and there seems to be quite a lot of friction between posting members.FUNNY that on a bearing thread EH!!
Well just to establish the truth on this whole Abec DRAMA!!
Abec ratings are proof of the tolerances between the outer shell to ball and from ball to inner shell or vice versa which ever way your inclined to looking at the bearing.
Now an Abec 1 bearing would more likely to produce more slop in axle applications etc Than something like an Abec 5 would.
An Abec 1 would produce much more vibration at high revs than an Abec 3 would.
Yet an Abec 3 would not neccessarily spool up faster than an Abec 1 for instance.Well that`s not completely true.if all the other components are balanced in the area of application.
This is where things can start to get silly as these are toy cars and not dental drills hehe.Anyway i hope you all in disagreement find your peace.:woot:
totally agree, but the comment made about abec5 bearings making laptimes slower is laughable. :D
bodgit
12-09-2011, 02:51 PM
totally agree, but the comment made about abec5 bearings making laptimes slower is laughable. :D
So where,s your proof that they are. Come to that where,s your feedback??
Not one person from 25 sales??? :eh?:
johnnygibbon did leave you some but you got that deleted
miura
12-09-2011, 03:38 PM
Just one more thing (no i ain`t columbo:)) To gain real noticeable speed from just inserting bearings is quite a tall order it would be very minute if noticable at all to the average racer.Unless the bearings you have are utter junk!! In reality you would be better of learning how to balance your wheels and tyres and checking them after every race more so if you crash.
Balanced wheels puts less strain on the drivetrain and especially the shocks.
The shocks have a major job keeping the wheels producing traction you certainly don`t want to be over stressing them with wheels that are well off balance.
Just think of your real car when the wheels are out of balance,its like trying to shake your fillings out your teeth.
These toy cars produce so so much more power to scale than a real car, so think of how much stress those shocks and the drivetrain are under when your wheels are out of balance :cry: Anyway just a thought!!
captainlip
12-09-2011, 03:51 PM
replacing bearings isnt about going faster its about having less resistance and having a bearing that will last longer and work better than other bearings.
when looking into bearings my main aim was to provide a bearing that will last longer and be manafactured better than the standard bearings supplied.
no matter what bearing you choose it wont make you faster OR slower.
bodgit
12-09-2011, 05:00 PM
I find this advert misleading it implies that your are selling durango bearing kits, not a generic replacement set. Maybe durango should talk to you about this misleading claim. It should read replacement bearing kit for the durango 410.
http://images.shoppit.co.uk/sizeimage.aspx?client=96638&image=bearingKit.jpg&height=160&width=160&colour=FFFFFF&offer=0&freepostage=1 (http://www.lipzbitz.co.uk/Team_Durango_DEX410_Kit/p901186_4040956.aspx)
High Quality Durango Bearing Kit for the 410.
Timee80
12-09-2011, 05:07 PM
I agree that metal shielded bearings have less friction than the rubber shielded versions (not that you'd really notice) but the rubber offers alot more protection against dirt ingress and this will affect a bearings performace a lot. In off road applications i would only ever buy rubber shielded bearings. This is what i have found from MY experience anyway.
mikeyscott
12-09-2011, 05:39 PM
I suggested www.rcbearings.co.uk as their service to ME was great and then did the job perfectly. They are also a great price as I'll replace bearings as they're a disposable items these days.
captainlip
12-09-2011, 05:42 PM
I find this advert misleading it implies that your are selling durango bearing kits, not a generic replacement set. Maybe durango should talk to you about this misleading claim. It should read replacement bearing kit for the durango 410.
http://images.shoppit.co.uk/sizeimage.aspx?client=96638&image=bearingKit.jpg&height=160&width=160&colour=FFFFFF&offer=0&freepostage=1 (http://www.lipzbitz.co.uk/Team_Durango_DEX410_Kit/p901186_4040956.aspx)
High Quality Durango Bearing Kit for the 410.
I have to agree, Ill sort that!
jkclifford
12-09-2011, 05:48 PM
Bearing seals used to make a massive difference back in the day of scr 1100, with stock motors. say you were running 21 89 in a procat you could dump before finishing, hook the covers off the inside bearing faces where you don't need then you could go up a pinion with a slither of milliamp to spare !!!!
buccaneer
12-09-2011, 06:08 PM
Hi James it's Michael .try rc bearings worked well for me .not a bad price .even the ceramic good price.
hottuna
12-09-2011, 08:01 PM
Lots of talk about abec 1-5 and tolerances. Another thing, maybe more important is QUALITY. Abec tells you about tolerance, nothing about quality of the material. A abec1 bearing can be much better then a abec5.
adam_u
13-11-2011, 12:52 AM
Can anybody point me in the direction of a retailer of the above-mentioned cheese bearings? They sound like the ones for me ;)
Joking aside (yep it was a joke) I have actually learnt some interesting things about bearings from this thread - so, say, in an off road buggy bearings in the hubs would be better of rubber shielded whereas bearings in the drivetrain (provided it is reasonably well sealed) could live with being metal shielded (or teflon in the case of my Kyosho) - or given the fact that most of us have oodles of lipo capacity left over these days after a heat why not just go for rubber shielded throughout...is it really going to make that much difference?
Put my car out on a very wet and muddy track the other day and had a hub bearing seize almost immediately - they probably were overdue a little tlc to be fair but it had got me thinking about putting the rubber shielded ones in as they are also easier to strip down and blast out
Still haven't made up my mind on the ABEC debate but it has made me realise that higher doesn't mean better for our application
captainlip
13-11-2011, 01:08 AM
Can anybody point me in the direction of a retailer of the above-mentioned cheese bearings? They sound like the ones for me ;)
Joking aside (yep it was a joke) I have actually learnt some interesting things about bearings from this thread - so, say, in an off road buggy bearings in the hubs would be better of rubber shielded whereas bearings in the drivetrain (provided it is reasonably well sealed) could live with being metal shielded (or teflon in the case of my Kyosho) - or given the fact that most of us have oodles of lipo capacity left over these days after a heat why not just go for rubber shielded throughout...is it really going to make that much difference?
Put my car out on a very wet and muddy track the other day and had a hub bearing seize almost immediately - they probably were overdue a little tlc to be fair but it had got me thinking about putting the rubber shielded ones in as they are also easier to strip down and blast out
Still haven't made up my mind on the ABEC debate but it has made me realise that higher doesn't mean better for our application
Well said! all the ones we sell are rubber shielded and tests so far appear to give a longer lasting bearing and easy to maintain.
im looking into and a pot of bearing oil in with all the kits in future OR release Lipzbitz own bearing cleaning kits, and yes these will probably come from china as its the only place I can find that sells them reasonably. :D
AmiSMB
13-11-2011, 01:58 PM
When replacing broken bearings with new ABEC 3 or ABEC 5 bearings I find that the bearings end up slipping on the axle that they run on or sometimes the outside of the bearings can also end up rotating depending upon the tolerance of the plastics / aluminuim that they go into. This can show up on black axles as two very shiny rings. I usually use some Locktite bearing lock or a VERY small amount of tyre glue to build up the axle or outer edge of the bearing to make sure that there is a proper friction fit. This also helps make the bearings last longer as if dirt does get in then the bearing is still kept moving rather than being allows to lock up and sieze. Building the car like this means there is a lot less slop especially around hubs. Answer RC bearings also have one side which are metal and one side which is rubber shielded which means they are the best of both worlds when it comes to friction. I always used to take one rubber shield out on my old CAT XLS to get the best performance that I could as capacity back then was at a premium.
TheReferee
13-11-2011, 11:07 PM
Well said! all the ones we sell are rubber shielded and tests so far appear to give a longer lasting bearing and easy to maintain.
im looking into and a pot of bearing oil in with all the kits in future OR release Lipzbitz own bearing cleaning kits, and yes these will probably come from china as its the only place I can find that sells them reasonably. :D
i typed a long reply to this idiot but life is frankly too short. i refer everyone to my previous posts in this thread. this fool knows jack about bearings and any statements he makes should be treated with caution.
TonyM
14-11-2011, 08:37 AM
As long as a bearing is running smoothly we now have enough power in our buggies that you will hardly see any (if any) significant drop-off in speed whether you are running ABEC 1 or 5. What is significant to me is the quality of the bearing which has a direct relationship to its longevity. I don't want one to let me down while I'm racing.
Right or wrong, I've always taken ABEC 5 to be 'better' quality than ABEC 1-3 and have bought on that basis and so far the results have proven this thinking. I.E. I've run a 410 for 18 months; first five months four kit bearings seized; changed to ABEC 5 and the last 13 months all still running smoothly. Not a definitive set of stats, but it works for me.
So, on this one I'm with the Captain - it's not about speed.
andy110m
14-11-2011, 08:03 PM
Lip - I work for the market leading European Distributor of Bearings. We are the largest in Europe by any measure you care to make, turnover, number of employee's or size of authorised supply base. I know bearings.
I have tried all singing, all dancing bearings from a range of market leading manufactures, SKF, NSK and INA. I have always found the cheaper end of the market to be better performing than the high end. I've spoken to SKF technical manager about this. The reason is in our application the super tght tolerances are a disadvantage. Dirt will get in, thats a fact, anyone who's done any racing and taken the wheels off will see dirt and crap wrapped round the axle, so we have to live with that fact. In the high end product the dirt gets in the bearing and on to the raceway but because of the tolerances being so tight the ball can't ride over it, the ball and raceway are both damaged by being forced to travel over the dirt. Add to that the dirt can't get out and the problem is compounded.
I'd be interested to know what brand the bearings you're suppling are. Any brand worth its salt, or producing high quality ABEC5 bearing will brand mark them. Makes sense, they are proud of their product so they put their name on it. In my experience only cheap chinese manufactures leave the bearings unmarked.
I now use run of the mill SKF or INA bearings, dependant on what we've got in stock. The metal shielded ZZ type are more efficient because the shield doesn't touch both raceways only normally the outer. The 2RS, or 2 rubber seal, type does contact both the outer and inner race and as such slows the bearing. Just for interest the best thing we can have is C3 bearings. The interal clearance is increased to allow for heat expansion, normally seen in electric motors. Most of our bearings fall into minatures and this isn't done but in some cars they do use popular metric (popmet) bearings and C3 clearance is available.
I hope someone might find this useful.
Tweaky
15-11-2011, 07:17 AM
Notice these comment's from the build tip's section. My rear bearings where binding as well, this would knock a set of bearings out in no time, whatever ABEC they are. I've now added some shims as below, and it sweet.
Binding rear Hub Bearings..
Place a 5x6x.2mm shim on the axle before installing in the hub.
There is a step in the axle, the face of that step meets up with the inner edge of the outer hub bearing.
Placing a small shim on the axle before that step will take the side load off the outer hub bearing making it last much longer, with no bind.
.2mm was plenty on my car to crank the wheels down with no binding, but experiment to see what you need.
Dayton
Rebelrc
15-11-2011, 08:11 AM
Am I missing something? But surely if the rating is higher (abec) it has less run out and slop so should allow less crud to enter the bearing? So should last longer?
I think I am with lippy on this one!:thumbsup:And can't see anything wrong with him bigging his products up, all company's do.... How many Rc cars claim to be the the ultimate?
Ref , do you think as a brca ref you should be entering into spurious forum debates using words like sh*t!?
Just my thoughts
andy110m
15-11-2011, 08:53 PM
Hi Rebel, the ABEC rating relates to the tolerances of the balls within the bearings. The seals or shields protect the bearing from dirt ingress and they are the same ABEC1, ABEC5 or ABECwhatever.
Rebelrc
16-11-2011, 08:18 AM
Yes Andy but these components you mention run on the balls so better fit equals less slop so the shields can do their job better and less crap in the bearing
Rolling resistance maybe the same on 1-5 etc but not when they are full of crud hth:)
mark christopher
16-11-2011, 09:08 AM
www.rcbearings.co.uk are brilliant and cover many models. I used them on my old D410R
I suggested www.rcbearings.co.uk as their service to ME was great and then did the job perfectly. They are also a great price as I'll replace bearings as they're a disposable items these days.
I can highly recommend them
mark christopher
16-11-2011, 09:16 AM
Am I missing something? But surely if the rating is higher (abec) it has less run out and slop so should allow less crud to enter the bearing? So should last longer?
I think I am with lippy on this one!:thumbsup:And can't see anything wrong with him bigging his products up, all company's do.... How many Rc cars claim to be the the ultimate?
Ref , do you think as a brca ref you should be entering into spurious forum debates using words like sh*t!?
Just my thoughts
Seal is still same and you only need smaller particles of shit to get in and there seizing
Rebelrc
16-11-2011, 01:08 PM
Exactly mark
The tighter the gap the slower the build up of ingress!
mark christopher
16-11-2011, 03:35 PM
Exactly mark
The tighter the gap the slower the build up of ingress!
yep so less crap in the tighter space causes problems. The crap/water will still get in
jkclifford
16-11-2011, 03:52 PM
Personally I prefer oillite bearings.
Very simple to look after and they never seize ;-)
andy110m
16-11-2011, 11:39 PM
The ABEC rating controls the Balls in the bearing and the higher the rating the less free space in the bearing. Rebel you are correct in saying the higher rating will have less run out but the seal is the same.
The seals are attached to the outer ring and the lip of the seal contacts the inner ring. This seal is not sprung or anything positive, its only a rolled rubber lip. Any dirt, dust or water doesn't have to try very hard to get past it and then as Mark said less dirt does more damage in the higher tolerance bearing for the reasons we've already discussed.
Hope that helps
mattr
17-11-2011, 09:48 AM
Of course, if you want ultimate efficiency/speed, pop the seals off and just run with light oil. Then flush/dry/relube after every run.
Probably not worth it outside, but might work (ish) inside.
About 85/90% of the drag in a 2RS bearing comes from the lip contact, not the balls/races. (depending on the size of the bearing, and if its knackered or not).
TheReferee
27-11-2011, 02:52 PM
Am I missing something? But surely if the rating is higher (abec) it has less run out and slop so should allow less crud to enter the bearing? So should last longer?
I think I am with lippy on this one!:thumbsup:And can't see anything wrong with him bigging his products up, all company's do.... How many Rc cars claim to be the the ultimate?
Ref , do you think as a brca ref you should be entering into spurious forum debates using words like sh*t!?
Just my thoughts
i didn't realise being an official stopped me having an opinion, i call a spade a spade, last week at a meeting i told a driver he was driving like a cock, he didn't like it, he like you can report me to whoever in authority and i might get told off, in the end however the driver was still driving like a cock and lip knows jack shit about bearings. i could resign my position and the driver would still have driven like a cock and lip would still know jack shit about bearings, i could use less or more industrial language, perhaps you could inform me of a more acceptable choice of phrase to get my point across?
captainlip
27-11-2011, 02:59 PM
i didn't realise being an official stopped me having an opinion, i call a spade a spade, last week at a meeting i told a driver he was driving like a cock, he didn't like it, he like you can report me to whoever in authority and i might get told off, in the end however the driver was still driving like a cock and lip knows jack shit about bearings. i could resign my position and the driver would still have driven like a cock and lip would still know jack shit about bearings, i could use less or more industrial language, perhaps you could inform me of a more acceptable choice of phrase to get my point across?
How about you just keep your yapper shut and stop dragging up old dirt mr expert. :lol:
TheReferee
27-11-2011, 07:26 PM
actually i have not been on oople for a week due to work so rebel's comment to me was new, and as he asked me a question i thought i would answer .
perhaps you could tell me to shut my yapper up in person. as for being an expert, you know nothing about me or my background so i may be the worlds authority on bearings or know even less than you. if your going to argue engineering matters and your not an engineer you are always going to lose, equally i would not enter an argument about stupidity with you as you are clearly an expert.
captainlip
27-11-2011, 07:58 PM
as you are clearly an expert.
least you got one thing right. :thumbsup:
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