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View Full Version : brushed motor which would bring equivelancy between 4 cells and 1 cell lipo.


Apricot Slice
13-09-2011, 09:48 PM
The club where i race is looking for a brushed motor which would bring equivelancy between 4 cells/silver can and 1 cell lipo cars.

At the moment there ar those with good cells and all the kit. and those who want to use single lipos but the power is down because of the lower voltage.
What motor will best level the playing field?

teamorsum96
14-09-2011, 04:16 PM
how do you mean fella?

B&H Racing
14-09-2011, 05:55 PM
We run a 20t Saturn motor with a 2s Lipo the Mardave G2 Motor actually seems faster but don`t seem to last as long.

I thought most cubs went from G2 4 cell to 1s Lipo Brushless

Have you thought about a 19t Checkpoint money motor, rebuildable and you can pick them up quite cheap as everyone has gone brushless.

Paulnuneaton
14-09-2011, 06:31 PM
I was runing G2 4 cell but to be quite frank all the flaffing around charging discharge then balance got right up my snout now run 1s lipo with gtb2 esc and exceed 13.5 brushless just as quick if not quicker no flaffing about more relaxed time in the pits and i was a die hard brushed supporter but times move on cells are on the slow death list.

so in answer to your question only one way to go 13.5 brushless gtb2 the way to go and you dont need a booster with the gtb!!!!:thumbsup:

ch!3f
14-09-2011, 06:38 PM
I was runing G2 4 cell but to be quite frank all the flaffing around charging discharge then balance got right up my snout now run 1s lipo with gtb2 esc and exceed 13.5 brushless just as quick if not quicker no flaffing about more relaxed time in the pits and i was a die hard brushed supporter but times move on cells are on the slow death list.

so in answer to your question only one way to go 13.5 brushless gtb2 the way to go and you dont need a booster with the gtb!!!!:thumbsup:

did you read the 1st post??????????? brushed motor!

Paulnuneaton
14-09-2011, 06:40 PM
yes i did thank you he is asking about best brushed to why flaff around with best brushed when within the next 8 months most dave racers will go lipo:woot::p

Apricot Slice
14-09-2011, 06:47 PM
how do you mean fella?

well.. the club (indoor winter season) has started doing mardave.

It was only a TC club. Last year we started doing Mardave.

The TC rules changed a bit last year for TC (now using rubber tires and additive) which has added more to the cost of TC and narked off a few folks who are now trying Mardave instead.


There are a few that have all the regular Mardave kit, i.e cells, chargers for cells etc. and everything is working fine for them.
And there are those with modern Lipos and lipo chargers who are new to Mardaves. Some, including myself have gone out and got cells and are now narked x2 because we are going much slower than the fast bunch. My cells seem to be super crappy and gave up at the end of last year because I couldn't finish a race.

We, the club, figured that if we can find a motor to go with a 1s lipo that gives the same performance as 4cells and a silver can then we can all compete in our club championship.

Problem is, I don't have piles of motors I can test etc. I am hoping this is a problem that has been solved already and there is a convenient solution so everyone can compete without being in differing classes.

Running brushless isn't an option nor is 2s lipo.

Edit...
I said running brushless isnt an option.. maybe it is. it depends on the cost. Im going to direct my fellow club members to this thread and see what the reaction will be.. hopefully my club can settle on something sensible as Im sure folks just want to race, compete, and do it hassle free.

B&H Racing
14-09-2011, 07:00 PM
As per my post, I reckon a

19t Checkpoint Money Motor & 1s Lipo would Equal 4 cell Mardave G2 motor

Alot of the 12th circuit boys have have these kicking around

Apricot Slice
14-09-2011, 07:08 PM
As per my post, I reckon a

19t Checkpoint Money Motor & 1s Lipo would Equal 4 cell Mardave G2 motor

Alot of the 12th circuit boys have have these kicking around


Awsome. I will post this info on my club forum. thanks fella.

Paulnuneaton
14-09-2011, 09:31 PM
I cannot see where this is going 1's lipo and a brushed motor,:( dont forget that some of you will

A have to change your esc for a lipo compatable one

B have to fit a booster as a 1's lipo is a lower voltage.

C and still brushed motor.

this to me is a no brainer just go brushless and if you are a die hard brushed racer the GTB2 will run lipo and brushed. then there is the com truer that you may need to get the very best from your brushed motor.

I was a die hard brushed racer and would not budge to the move over to lipo brushless but ask any racer who has made the move and they will all say its the best thing ever they have done brushed is the dark ages the sport has moved on.

B&H Racing
14-09-2011, 09:43 PM
Unless the rules of your club state you cannot use brushless, like the club I race at.

But don`t get me wrong I have been running brushless in buggies for years and race at a different track with brushless in a mardave.

I would prefer brushless and at the AGM for our club we aim to put it forward.

I think its only time before most classes will be brushless

You don`t necessary need a comm lathe for used brushed motors as all the stocks motors I have stuck into my Mardave are sealed units.

And long running mardave racers would of put numerous sealed g2 motors in.

I have not changed by ESC at all when running LIPO in fact I run a LRP quantum 2 ( how old are they ? )
I know it does not have lipo cut off, I just not stupid and do not run it too low.

Garry Spice
15-09-2011, 11:50 AM
im the one running a G2 with a 90c lipo with some degree of succes.and thats with the bog standard V50 esc. BUT please can we go brushless!!!

teamorsum96
15-09-2011, 12:24 PM
easy, just have 2classes lol but i think the 19t motor is a good idea

Paulnuneaton
15-09-2011, 12:43 PM
im the one running a G2 with a 90c lipo with some degree of succes.and thats with the bog standard V50 esc. BUT please can we go brushless!!!

Its the way forward Garry soon cells will be dark ages g2's will be a thing of the past for circuit racers yes agree with you move with the times go brushless less money in the long run and same performance week in week out no drop of like brushed
if you go to www.rccircuitcars.com (http://www.rccircuitcars.com) you can see the write ups on there and we have the stalwart gary Chrisp who done all the ground work at the very start to run lipo some good stuff on the mardave section along with some wicked mods as well

teamorsum96
15-09-2011, 02:49 PM
well.. the club (indoor winter season) has started doing mardave.

It was only a TC club. Last year we started doing Mardave.

The TC rules changed a bit last year for TC (now using rubber tires and additive) which has added more to the cost of TC and narked off a few folks who are now trying Mardave instead.


There are a few that have all the regular Mardave kit, i.e cells, chargers for cells etc. and everything is working fine for them.
And there are those with modern Lipos and lipo chargers who are new to Mardaves. Some, including myself have gone out and got cells and are now narked x2 because we are going much slower than the fast bunch. My cells seem to be super crappy and gave up at the end of last year because I couldn't finish a race.

We, the club, figured that if we can find a motor to go with a 1s lipo that gives the same performance as 4cells and a silver can then we can all compete in our club championship.

Problem is, I don't have piles of motors I can test etc. I am hoping this is a problem that has been solved already and there is a convenient solution so everyone can compete without being in differing classes.

Running brushless isn't an option nor is 2s lipo.

Edit...
I said running brushless isnt an option.. maybe it is. it depends on the cost. Im going to direct my fellow club members to this thread and see what the reaction will be.. hopefully my club can settle on something sensible as Im sure folks just want to race, compete, and do it hassle free.

i totally agree with you that the 1s lipo ist enough for the brushed silver can,plus you need the boost thing, i think that one of the budget 19t motor is the way to go.

i have just sold my mardave but my girlfriend still races hers in the brushed class at are club,and she would of qualified 2nd overall with her 4cell,silver can car against the brushless cars, which are club allows up to 2s lipos.

the way i see it, if its a basic budget class it should relate to it, electrics wise to.

ch!3f
15-09-2011, 06:14 PM
i totally agree with you that the 1s lipo ist enough for the brushed silver can,plus you need the boost thing, i think that one of the budget 19t motor is the way to go.

i have just sold my mardave but my girlfriend still races hers in the brushed class at are club,and she would of qualified 2nd overall with her 4cell,silver can car against the brushless cars, which are club allows up to 2s lipos.

the way i see it, if its a basic budget class it should relate to it, electrics wise to.

dont see the point in brushless in a mardave yes there faster but its a class thats low budget to make it fair get more people in to the hobby and perfect for beginners.

if you want faster get a tc! simples

teamorsum96
15-09-2011, 06:23 PM
dont see the point in brushless in a mardave yes there faster but its a class thats low budget to make it fair get more people in to the hobby and perfect for beginners.

if you want faster get a tc! simples
+1 :thumbsup:
we all no where this will lead lol back to the brushed/brushless war lol
i do agree we will be all going on to lipos in the mardaves but while we have good cells knocking about we will stick with the NI-MHs.

the way are club is, anything that ist basic, ie brushless, lipos modifed motors would go in the brushless class, then it just leaves are g2,saturn 20s brushed to run with other cars with 4cell NI-MHs

Paulnuneaton
15-09-2011, 06:33 PM
dont see the point in brushless in a mardave yes there faster but its a class thats low budget to make it fair get more people in to the hobby and perfect for beginners.

if you want faster get a tc! simples

You dont see the point of brushless in a Mardave. maybe thats why the mardave has stayed in the dark ages for so long. you have to read between the lines the 4 cells are on the way out, the silver can at 8.99 is just what it is a electric drill motor simple. a lot of people have developed the car to bring it on leaps and bounds over the last year. ok so the car is entry level its cheap it good racing but until you get out of this stone age thinking the Mardave will still remain the same for the next 25 years. if you look at the development Chris wilkinson has been doing you can see he see's the future of this car moving forward.
so why do you embrace the use of 4 cell g2 so why do people want to run 1's lipo with silver can bit like owning a porche but fitted with a mini engine.:D
Again i was one who was stuck on runing 4 cell old school g2 but boy when you change to brushless 13.5 1's lipo i know what i would keep now and it aint four cells.
to many people are stick in the mud about Mardaves embrace the changes cus they are on the way this time next year 4 cell brushed g2 will be like lord lucan feeding sugar cubes to shergar!!!

teamorsum96
15-09-2011, 06:44 PM
i think the thing that is changing is the batterys, yes lipos are coming in, and i run lipos and brushless in my buggy and i no there good but end of day,its down to the person to choose brushed and brushless. let each person pick there class.

as for chris working on development on the v12, we havet seen no change to the v12 since the VRX or worlds edition,the only thing i have seen is ,the 1/12 mardave touring car.

Apricot Slice
16-09-2011, 04:16 PM
Thanks for all you input guys.

My feeling is that brushless and using 1s lipo is perfect for Mardaves and it is the future regardless of the initial cost being a little more.

You can slap one of these in your car and its going to go at the same speed regardless of your tec know-how.

If the club will not accept a brushless and 1s lipo setup and a 19t or some such doesnt work out then Im going to quit. There is no point in racing and not being able to compete, and im not into endlessly messing about with brushed motors and sub c cells.

Paulnuneaton
16-09-2011, 07:19 PM
If your club is not set in the stone age then this can only be the best choice.maybe a brushed class for newracers but they should move forwwrd with the times i have the pleasure of being mates with the guy who did all the testing with lipos and brushless in the begining hope you get the results that you want with the club u race with mate but dont quit

B&H Racing
16-09-2011, 08:14 PM
Thanks for all you input guys.

My feeling is that brushless and using 1s lipo is perfect for Mardaves and it is the future regardless of the initial cost being a little more. Totally Agree

You can slap one of these in your car and its going to go at the same speed regardless of your tec know-how. Depends on what the rules are, I think the most fair way and to keep the cost down would be to ban the use of so called turbo esc's ( Otherwise people just buy the most expensive esc around to go the fastest) I don`t think this is what Mardave is about.

Also people will always play around with the speedo and transmitter settings to get the fastest out of the car

If the club will not accept a brushless and 1s lipo setup and a 19t or some such doesnt work out then Im going to quit. There is no point in racing and not being able to compete, and im not into endlessly messing about with brushed motors and sub c cells. This would be a real shame, find out what the rules are and work with fellow racers to get a match on the cars.
Yes you don`t want a car which cant compete, but at the same time there is no point (because of the motor/lipo etc) having a car thats twice as fast as everything else.
Mardave is all about Fast, close, cheap racing. It's what gives it its appeal.

I have raced a Mardave for years and have raced:
4 cell, 6 cell, Lipo 2s, Brushless, G2 motor, 20T Motor, etc etc
Buying a 2nd hand Brushed motor should be quite cheap, send out a wanted post on here.

Hope you find an answer

Brett

teamorsum96
17-09-2011, 08:30 AM
Thanks for all you input guys.

You can slap one of these in your car and its going to go at the same speed regardless of your tec know-how.



but ist, half the challenge working on the brushed motors to get the best out of them?

Paulnuneaton
17-09-2011, 11:53 AM
You mean the Black art lets face it would you dig up a hill to get to point B or would you drive roung it to point B simples!!!!!

Apricot Slice
17-09-2011, 11:56 AM
The money I have spent on sub-c cells that don't do the job would have been enough to buy a G2 brushless motor and speed controller.

I am not going to wast my money on cells again.

As is, this cheap sport is costing way too much and I'm still not racing.

My hope is that the rules at our club get arranged so that Mardave racing is competitive and is no longer an exclusive sport.

but ist, half the challenge working on the brushed motors to get the best out of them?

It would seem so.

Apricot Slice
17-09-2011, 12:00 PM
You mean the Black art lets face it would you dig up a hill to get to point B or would you drive roung it to point B simples!!!!!
the AGM is on Sunday.......

teamorsum96
17-09-2011, 12:07 PM
end of the day, i do believe that all clubs have there own rules, its only if your racing at national level that you will need to follow the rules.

i no are club as 2 diffrent classes,

brushed class;
mardave g2, saturn 20 motors running 4 cell NIMH

brushed class;
any 13t or 17.5t brushless using up to 2s lipos.

and this is second time we have started the brushless class and this time its starting to fill up shall we say, with a heat of brushless to the 3 of brushed.
if the class is still running when i build another mardave(as im running micro buggy at same club meeting) i will prob go along and try a 13t brushless and lipo.

dasbo
17-09-2011, 03:47 PM
Since I am at the same club as "Apricot Slice" (Where did that one come from??:bored:) I will be seconding the proposal to allow the Mardave brushless/1c lipo setup be used alongside the brushed/cells cars. But I would prefer to keep it Mardave brushless stuff (MRT ESC - 95 combo?) so that folk cant go mad with expensive "turbo" ESC's, as that was why I gave up TC's. Too much messing about with settings and not enough racing!!!

This post was started to try and find a comparible brushed motor to use with lipo's so that its competitive with 4 cells, yet keep it cheap. But I think this route might be a false economy.

Bring on the brushless:thumbsup:

Mr Eccleston
17-09-2011, 05:11 PM
Darren

You are highly unlikely to get 1 brushed motor that will perform the same speed on 4 cells as 1c lipo. The only way to do it was to get a motor that was fast enough for the lipo guys, it would then be to fact for the 4 cell users, and assuming they actually drove it it should work out at much the same speed.

Alternatively, what we did was use the Mardave G2 brushless, but limit the speedo's to 80% when using 4 cell, but allow 100% with 1C lipo, it's as close as you get, you can obviously tweek the % value to suit. Don't worry about people cheeting, it's fairly obvious and takes all of 30 seconds to check.

As you may have guessed there does appear to be a move to 1C lipo with brushless sensor motors, probably 13.5, these seem to match the brushed G2 motor on 4 cell pretty close, but remember both are slower than the Mardave G2 brushless on 100% on 4 cell. I would suggets holding off just now and do some testing, I can see a gradual move to 1C lipo and 13.5 coming, the problem will be around the different 13.5 motors, and the fact that some can have adjustable timing on the motor. Running blinky speedo's should even them out.

mcjjordan
17-09-2011, 06:49 PM
The mardave g2 brushless with the 400 size 4000kv system running a 4cell nimh is very close to a brushed g2 and 6 cell

this is why we run them both in saloonstox

Apricot Slice
18-09-2011, 03:46 PM
AGM Result:) today we agreed on using the G2 brushless system.
G2 brushless users will have to turn down the speedo to whatever % so its the same speed as the 4 cell/brushed guys.
This should free up the options on several counts.

Thanks again for all your input on this.

mcjjordan
18-09-2011, 08:35 PM
we find-

Battery Cut=ncd (No cut off)
Max Speed = 70
Torque = 50
Brake = free (100)
Drag Brake = free (10)
Max Punch = 41
Start Power = 45
mAh = On (Reverse On ?)

is very close if both using 4 cell