The Old Chestnut - FTQ v Rnd by Rnd

[chrispattinson]

On Sunday, at the NE regional at Temple Park, at the drivers briefing, we were asked to vote on running the meeting FTQ or Round by Round.

It was a close decision, with some people voting twice for both options, but round by round won.

I, myself, voted for FTQ, which in my opinion allows more radical setup changes at what was a new track / venue, and a more interesting qualifying session on a track where conditions did not change all day - no leaky roof here.

I just wanted to hear other peoples opinion on the decision, and - big can of worms here - the debate of FTQ v Rnd by Rnd at an indoor meeting, or indeed, a fair weathered outdoor meeting on a synthetic track.

[Cockerill]

I voted FTQ because I wanted something different. I believe (without looking at the times) that the track got quicker all day, therefore round by round was the right choice.

[Northy]

Even indoor tracks alter during the day.

Did you see the dust on the floor at teh start of the day? :confused::confused: It clean up as the day went on.

That as well as the track being marked by ropes that were not taped down made my mind up.

G

[xx4-nutter]

i prefare FTQ, nice and simple :)

[super__dan]

Round by round, all tracks change during the day, it's the fairest way in my opinion.

[Lindsay]

Even indoor tracks alter during the day.

Did you see the dust on the floor at teh start of the day? :confused::confused: It clean up as the day went on.

That as well as the track being marked by ropes that were not taped down made my mind up.

G

I have to agree, even indoors you get to many varitions of conditions and Track Movement, we all complained about how many times the doors were opened and the Temperature went down.
Also as Mr Riley commented it stops the ONE round wonder.

[Kopite]

Round-by-Round, cos it filters out the people who could have had one lucky round (track conditions/weather etc) from the guys who are genuinely fast!

[chrispattinson]

Fair enough, I was thinking my setup changes were improving my car round by round, though the increase in grip could've been the major factor, as I did get my fastest time in round 4.

[telboy]

I prefer round by round. I think most people coming straight from TC's prefer FTD because they don't quite understand the RbR system. I think it works better as mentioned by others, and it makes you more concious about your driving, and makes you drive smother and mistake free.

[Gaz_Stanton]

FTQ all the way! Simple easy target and 4 chances to get it right. R by R dulls the racing too much as you have to hold back defend an ok run rather than push for a quick one.

Ok, i know it's not 'fair' but what in life is? If you want totally fair then leave the racing and just hand out a token "I turned up" trophy to everyone...

[Chris Doughty]

all those people that are making comments along the lines of 'get more chance to put a good run' or 'have to keep a run 'safe'

how does that work when you KNOW that the track will be at its fastest in round 4, you crash once all day and it happens to be in that round. your day is screwed.

thats fair.

[ashleyb4]

I like orund by round as you still drive fast as you have to get as high as possible in that round to get a good round score.

A

[Lee]

So true chris, we might as well just turn up at dinner time have one qually and go straight into finals, it makes a mockery of the 3 previous rounds of qualifying

[Gaz_Stanton]

how does that work when you KNOW that the track will be at its fastest in round 4, you crash once all day and it happens to be in that round. your day is screwed.

Yeah, i know RbyR is the right way to do it for for exactly that reason but i still much prefer racing and watching FTD.

[Chris Doughty]

I think it should be full RBR all the time, or full Reedy Race style, I don't think FTQ or FTD has its place anymore.

[Lee]

Reedy race format is ace, but its so hard to organise:(

[Chrislong]

Doughty has got it bang on. With FTQ whats the point in even bothering for the first 3 rounds - may aswell just run the last. No matter what, if you fluff up that run, you'll be down on expectations.

Yesterday at Temple Park, the corner onto the straight moved and the line from the banked corner became much faster - it did get moved back for round 4, but it was still faster than it was on round 1. Same at the end of the straight, that went from a definate 90degree to a slight sweeper, I was carrying far more speed through it in round 4 than round 1. Then the chicane ont he slippy - the straight line through it was always there, it just became wider.... I can go on with more too, and thats only with track moving, not track rubbering up.

Round by Round should be everywhere. If you noticed I told Vermin off for voting on both options (you should do a stand to the left for FTQ, to the right for RbR and in the middle for not bothered), thats cos if it was FTQ yesterday I would have felt "whats the point in travelling so far for this", but as it turned out it was the right decision and I did enjoy it and hope you stay at the venue as it was a great event! (Well done to Greg Williams)

In 4wd anyway, I would have been on pole with either situ, but Adam would have been 2nd and Greg 3rd. Not sure about 2wd.

I know I won;t be coming back as it was soooo far til next indoor regional, but how about a NERCR-GP in the next winter seperate to the regional, perhaps a 2 day event to clash with the Neo 09' - get us back there. The venue is awesome and can easily cope with a mahoosive turnout!

[Jonny_H]

RbR also rewards those drivers who can put together a quick run when it's cold, or wet, or slippery, not just when the grip's up and the track's at its best.

I'm biased here, as I know I do much better under RbR than I would have done under FTD. ;)

[chris_dono]

I prefer round by round. I think most people coming straight from TC's prefer FTD because they don't quite understand the RbR system. I think it works better as mentioned by others, and it makes you more concious about your driving, and makes you drive smother and mistake free.

Can you summarise the difference please ? I'm coming over from TC and as you say, I don't understand RbR (never heard of it even)

[Chris Doughty]

RBR

basically each round is counted seperately. the fastest driver in round 1 gets 1 point, 2nd fastest 2 points and so on...

round 2, only times from round 2 are looked at, again, fastest driver from this round gets 1 point, 2nd - 2 points, 5th - 5 points.

same thing for round3 and 4.

each driver combines their 'score' from their best 2 rounds (if I had a 3, 6, 83, 2 - I could count my 2 and 3 - 5 points total)

lowest points is best.

if there is a tie on points, it is resolved by best single score of your counting scores ( 10 points each - 2+8 beats 5+5 )

if these are both tied, it is then you fastest race time from your lowest score (I am not 100% sure on these details)

easy!

[Chrislong]

if these are both tied, it is then you fastest race time from your lowest score (I am not 100% sure on these details)



Thats Right CD.

Sometimes somebody can go faster but get a worse score in a round, just because that round was faster for some reason. So for example, Mr A has a 1 (18 in 304)& 2 (18 in 312), Mr B has a 1 (18 in 305) & 2 (18 in 302).

This would make Mr A #1 in the A, even though Mr B went faster for his 2 points, its his 1 point which breaks the tie. Its actually very fair too.

[chris_dono]

ok, so none of the "break the car for three round and have a lucky run" as Touring cars works ? :)

Sounds a bit different but seems to focus on your ability to set the car up not only to be quick, but you ability to keep it on one piece as well

[markwilliamson2001]

I found that qualifiying was sooo much cleaner using Round By Round, since people want a clean run every round (because every round counts). I also think it is a better value for money, since again, every round counts as a legitimate qualifying 'chance'.

Don't forget that only 2 actual rounds count using Round by round, so you still need to push. I also think that it counts for those who 'know' how to set their car up, since they can make the most of the conditions in the early/slippier/damp rounds when the track is drying out.

Just my $0.2

M.

[paulo]

Just to add my 2p's worth I think round by round is much better because it shows that not always is it the fastest car that gets pole in the A but the fastest car over two Rounds Not just one.

It is also to remember that during qualifing that you are racing the clock not eachother so it pays not to interfere with other cars as this not only slows the other car down but also yourself.

Please note this is just my opinion

[RogerM]

I have to agree with the majority here. I disliked round by round and control tires when the rules where put in place, now I think they saved the sport!!

The only problem with RbR is that if you have a new car or are trying something new you have to accept that you will probably be a full final down on where you'd normally be due to having to spend the first few laps of every run getting used to something and thus not drivign at your quickest.

RbR certainly works well for those who know their cars, wouldn't want to build a car the night before a counting event though if it was to be run by RbR....

[Northy]

Mmmmmm

I recently raced a car that wasn't mine at a meeting and qualified 3rd :thumbsup:

And last weekend with a car I built on Saturday and qualified 5th :thumbsup:

So not always. :lol::lol:

G

[Lee]

You are exceptional though G:thumbsup: