Wireless power from speed passion ?

[B-Master]

i have just come across this artical (below) i am a bit confused as to what they are offering .. whats your take (views) on this



http://www.redrc.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/speedpassionwirelesspower.jpg

Speed Passion have announced details of a future product line, which they say looks set to revolutionize both gas and electric R/C racing. Their rather criptic release states:

We are proud to bring the Power of freedom, “The wireless power”. “Reduction” is one of the ways to help to protect the Earth. Imagine playing with an R/C car, boat, or soft air gun without chargers, power supplies, and extra battery packs. No more worries about battery pack quality, and chasing constant small advances in battery capability and size. Saving you time and money and developing new ideas to improve your skills in order to enjoy the pure fun of R/C.

What product they are announcing I dont know, but the picture above shows version 1.2 of the Wireless Power prototype, which looks like a speed controller with battery inputs that has a built 2.4Ghz system, judging by the aerial. Speed Passion will release more details every month in the lead up to its 2009 release date.


as i said looks very cryptic but intresting

[Northy]

Is it April 1st? :confused:

G

[J_WOODY]

thats not an aerial..... thats for winding it up

[bondy]

Is it April 1st? :confused:



G

Ditto ! :eh?:

[ashleyb4]

thats not an aerial..... thats for winding it up

Your winding us up

A

[antnee]

Looks more like a servo horn than a 2.4ghz aerial!

[DCM]

it does look more like a handle than an aeriel, it is wireless power not a radio.

[ashleyb4]

Wireless energy transffer

Wireless energy transfer or wireless power transmission is the process that takes place in any system where electrical energy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_energy) is transmitted from a power source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_supply) to an electrical load (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_load), without interconnecting wires. Wireless transmission is ideal in cases where instantaneous or continuous energy transfer is needed, but interconnecting wires are inconvenient, hazardous, or impossible.
Though the physics of both are related, this is distinct from wireless transmission for the purpose of transferring information (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information) (such as radio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio)), where the percentage of the power (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_%28physics%29) that is received is only important if it becomes too low to successfully recover the signal. With wireless energy transfer, the efficiency is a more critical parameter and this creates important differences in these technologies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology).



A

[DCM]

I read it as there being no need for a power 'source'

Imagine playing with an R/C car, boat, or soft air gun without chargers, power supplies, and extra battery packs.

So I don't see it 'receiving power' as that would require a power source.

[josh_smaxx]

I read it as there being no need for a power 'source'



So I don't see it 'receiving power' as that would require a power source.

I think it means you dont need conventional battery/charging equipment, just the power source for this and the thing in your car.

I think its a good idea if it ever works reliably and i doubt it will ever become legal.

[DCM]

I must be getting old and green in my age, but the way as I see it being 'good for the earth' is if you transform mechanical force into energy, like a windup radio, if you use a wireless power source... whats the point. Still got to produce that energy....

I think Speed Passion are stirring up discussion

[big air]

I think it will be like dodgem cars with big ariels that touch the roof for the power :woot:

[DCM]

I think it will be like dodgem cars with big ariels that touch the roof for the power :woot:

that would make marshalling fun roflol

[Robbiejuk]

hmm wireless power has been done before though obviously not this small though.

I reckon that unit will plug into a power supply of somewhat and then transmit to your car. Interesting concept though.

[sim]

I must be getting old and green in my age, but the way as I see it being 'good for the earth' is if you transform mechanical force into energy, like a windup radio, if you use a wireless power source... whats the point. Still got to produce that energy....

I think Speed Passion are stirring up discussion

Maybe they mean in the long run, we won't be dumping old NiMH and LiPo cells into the ground. But I'm skeptical of technologies that transmit big amounts of energy through the air. Remember when we were all worked up about our handphones frying our brains? This could only be much more powerful.

And from an efficiency point of view - I don't see it working on fast moving objects like RC cars. You can't send out energy in all directions and then have a high percentage of it being picked up at one particular point. Unless the transmitting station works out where to send the energy beforehand and focus all the energy into a narrow beam.

I just had a funny image in my head - Drivers up at the stand aiming their transmitters at their RC cars like laser guns while turn marshalls duck out of the way of the death rays.

[VintageRacer]

Well, at peak discharge motors draw 50A+, if I understand correctly.

50A @ 8V (just to keep the maths easier) = 400W power

As previously mentioned, if this power was distributed in all directions (tracking a fast moving car would be too expensive to bother with) power would fall according to the inverse square law. If the car is 10m away and my understanding right, that would mean the power would be 100 times weaker at the car compared to the power source, meaning it would need to be 40kW, which, according to this web page: http://www.bbc.co.uk/reception/transmitters/radio/digital_radio.shtml

is significantly more powerful than all BBC's DAB radio transmitters!!

10m might be more than needed, especially if you put the power source in the middle of the track, but even a couple of meters gives a power source requirement of over a kW.

The legal maximum power output of a mobile phone is 3.6W but is typically less than 1W (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone_radiation_and_health)

I don't think it's going to happen do you?

[k£v!n]

Update - Speed Passion Wireless Power

http://www.rc-area.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/update-speed-passion-wireless-power.jpg

Following on from the information we published here (http://www.rc-area.co.uk/blog/?p=2383), we have been able to find a picture showing “The wireless power” in an on-road car which was on display at the TITC.

[josh_smaxx]

Was it run at all do you know? or is it still a pretty box just sat in a car? it does look quite smart though.

[k£v!n]

From what I understand it wasn’t run, one indication of this is the motor without a pinion, however I’m not 100% shore, as soon as I find out more I will let you know!

[josh_smaxx]

And theres no power wires and the servo wire has been cut off, i had noticed. I just wondered it it had been tested at all.

[Garry Driffill]

i bet there ace !

id love to see one in the hands of a Touring Car World Champion !

[neiloliver]

Just in case people still might be thinking that this is too good to be true.. IT IS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE!

dont believe the hype.

Batteries rule!

[k£v!n]

And theres no power wires and the servo wire has been cut off, i had noticed. I just wondered it it had been tested at all.

I hadn’t noticed that :D just saw the pinion missing lol!

It’s a shame Speed Passion hasn’t released any more information to help answer all our questions!

[burgie]

And theres no power wires and the servo wire has been cut off, i had noticed. I just wondered it it had been tested at all.

of course the power wires have been cut off - it's a wireless power solution :woot: :p :woot:

[Chris Doughty]

I like to think I am open to most 'new' stuff,

but I can't honestly see how on earth they can get 'wireless' power? I mean WTF?

does that mean I can tap into another cars power while I am racing? or do they run like bumper-cars with a wire going up to a metal roof?

[jimmy]

sound like a big bunch of bollocks to me

[Cooper]

or 1 big electricity field over the track and the cars all take energy from that, like 'boxing cars' or whatever it's called in english.

[Garry Driffill]

or 1 big electricity field over the track and the cars all take energy from that, like 'boxing cars' or whatever it's called in english.


LOL dodgems cooper :lol:..

i wonder how it actually works :eh?:

[frogger]

i wonder how it actually works :eh?:


It's actually a very simple: resonance
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6129460.stm

Still, I'd like to see it work in RC at high volts/amps

[Mutant]

If there is any substance to it then it will probably be based on the 'WiTricity' principle using resonance coupling.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WiTricity

It appears that they had a rig a few years back capable of 60W transmission at 40% efficiency, could this new device be a reult of refinements to the technology?

[martboy21]

puzzled...how do you send enough power wirelessly to power a brushless motor/esc? seems against all laws of physics to me,

i mean yeah we have wireless internet etc but that that needs power from both ends to work, router/modem and laptop power,seems weird to me!!!???

[Northy]

It is not possible (yet) for the amount of power we use.

G

[Mutant]

It is not possible (yet) for the amount of power we use.

G

i guess that is why devices are unavailable then............

We will just have to see if anything develops. However It does appear to be theortically possible, and a reasonably 'high power' laboratory proof of concept appears to have been carried out.

[dave g]

we wouldnt need as much power because you wont have cells to lug about,time will tell i spose.

[Huw333]

From what i've read in the articles, people are correct in saying its can be done but only for appliances that require very low power.

It seems to me that Speed Passion have designed this box with an ariel to demonstate what it might look like if the technology actually comes available.

The reality of running a 50A motor from a wireless power source could be possible in the future but it certainly isnt at the moment. Thats just my opinion though!

If you want a simple explanation, the way i understand it, the therory works on resonance. One device would emit a frequency, causing the other to resonate, and generate electricity. Similar to how a speaker can make an object vibrate - except this works on much higher frequencies.

[Northy]

Nothing to see here, move along....

IT IS NOT POSSIBLE.

My bet is on details being released on 1st of April. ;);)

G

[Elliott Hopkins]

There will be Hydrogen Fuel Cell powered cars first. :eh?: (cool smilie)

[Huw333]

Nothing to see here, move along....

IT IS NOT POSSIBLE.

IT IS POSSIBLE and whats more is its an amazingly simple principal!

[Northy]

IT IS POSSIBLE and whats more is its an amazingly simple principal!

NOT at the power levels we use! :p

G

[Huw333]

NOT at the power levels we use! :p

G

Didnt i already say that?

The reality of running a 50A motor from a wireless power source could be possible in the future but it certainly isnt at the moment.

:p

[Mutant]

Nothing to see here, move along....

IT IS NOT POSSIBLE.

My bet is on details being released on 1st of April. ;);)

G

I BELIEVE IT IS POSSIBLE! if they have transmitted 60W in the lab they can transmit more, its just a matter of scale, unless you believe that they perfected the technology and this is its upper power limit.;)

Will it be a desireable, economic or indeed comercially available option in the next couple of years? Personally i doubt it, but hey, you never know.:woot:





I am a CLUB Racer....................:thumbsup:

[501X Driver]

It works right now but like this-
In yuou power supply you have a transformer. That has a wire coiled of wire attached to the wall cord. In that coil of wire is a secondary coil that output a lower voltage, like 24volts. That is in a sence wireless as they are not connected. So as technology works now you would need a MIR machine. (Magnetic Rensonance Imageing Machine) to pass enough current to the pickup device. If you have had one done on you. You know that you are not allowed to wear any type of metal as it will be pulled to the machine. I have heard stories of pennies hitting paople and cutting them. So this is a long way off to use it in our hobby. It would be cool that everyone has the same power source and the hobby store has to supply it. Make it cheaper on the consumer. Yeahhhh. Look for it in 2-3 grenerations down the road. Real good chance it won't be in our life time.

[Mutant]

Hi 501,

You may be very correct, and it may come to nothing but...

MRI, in short, uses intense magnetic fields to influence the spin of atomic nuclei, this has absolutely nothing in comon with WiTricity. The only commonality is the use of RF radiation, but in MRI it is used to excite and then read the decay of this excited state.

i'm reasonably confident that during my brief browsing through the Witricity links on wiki that it also did not mention anywhere about the requirement for a million dollar superconducting magnet.






Now A Chilled CLUB Racer.......:thumbsup: