Brushless, what esc and motor

[Brabusben]

Ok this is going to be a budget build (£65 car what else can it be!) as its a starter car for me and my slash 4x4 is hopped up ++++, but I need to be brushless, will be running 2s all the time.

Looking for a reasonable quality budget brushless esc/motor

Recommendations would be gratefully appreciated

Car, bearings, 2.4 trans/reciever all Xmas prezzies, rest I have to get myself - not a problem but the wife won't let me spend too much (in the ideal world I'd be running MMP esc so I could swap into my slash 4x4 but too expensive)

What Kv motor should I be looking at?
What power esc should I be looking at?

Other things on list will be shocks - will probably scour second hand for these, and a few spares lol

Thanks for your help in advance

Ps: I'll be running mainly on grass 1:10 courses in uk if that helps

[Brabusben]

Forgot - I will be getting mad monkey ;0)

[kayce]

Looking for a reasonable quality budget brushless esc/motor

Recommendations would be gratefully appreciated

You might be better served, and get more reliable responses, by telling people what your actual "budget" is. ;)

[Brabusben]

The alternative, of course is to go for the RTR 2.4kHz at £165 - but then there's no fun in building it :0( and I'm sure I'll still want to upgrade this system anyway, or is this brushless system ok?

[Brabusben]

You might be better served, and get more reliable responses, by telling people what your actual "budget" is. ;)

Doh! Sorry, my budget is trying to keep it near to the price of the RTR (£165 all in) but can be stretched to £200 or so all in - meaning around £60-125 for esc/motor combo, unless there is a spectacular upgrade for slightly more......

Of course I've not rule out second hand options (like a B4 or a 22) but realistically, don't thnk I'm going to get a runner for much less than £250-300

[Brabusben]

Actually, I've been a bit of a muppet, for the budget I've allocated for upgrading this buggy, I could get a new associated B4.1 - think that might be a better option!? - possibly even cheaper?

[Battle_axe]

Actually, I've been a bit of a muppet, for the budget I've allocated for upgrading this buggy, I could get a new associated B4.1 - think that might be a better option!? - possibly even cheaper?


its simple to me :) get thew monkey the B4.1 is old news and not gonna be as easy to get good results with.

get an ansmann 7.5 with a hobbywing xerun 120A and you wont look back :thumbsup:

[Brabusben]

Really, ok, I'll look into that - thanks. The 120A comes with many different motor combinations - which kV would you recommend?

[kayce]

its simple to me :) get thew monkey the B4.1 is old news and not gonna be as easy to get good results with.

:wtf: That's right, stick with this guy's advice, he knows what he's talking about - everyone knows ansmann dominated the A-Finals at last month's World Championships while the B4.1 struggled just to win the race. :rolleyes:

[Brabusben]

:wtf: That's right, stick with this guy's advice, he knows what he's talking about - everyone knows ansmann dominated the A-Finals at last month's World Championships while the B4.1 struggled just to win the race. :rolleyes:

TBH I am never going to be a serious competitor, just don't have the time due to work and family. I just want a 2wd 1:10 to run which will not be a dog and has good parts availability, ideally that doesn't need a packet spent on it to get it to, at least, the tail end of the pack.

I'm afraid my passion at the moment is Short Course, not many tracks run these yet, so wanted something I could play around with when sc not running

If budget was not an option i think I'd go for a 22, but, because of wife, £200 is about the limit (if I'm lucky)

Mad Monkey looked like a good bet (and has great reviews) but, as stated above, the B4 has a very good track record............better than mine will ever be

As everyone says.....its the driver that wins the race, I kinda have no experience, I will be the limiting factor I whatever combo I get

Of course I appreciate an element of bias toward the mm here and i think it is great, just, only really can budget for one buggy so...........I drifted a little off topic - sorry

[kayce]

TBH I am never going to be a serious competitor, just don't have the time due to work and family. I just want a 2wd 1:10 to run which will not be a dog and has good parts availability, ideally that doesn't need a packet spent on it to get it to, at least, the tail end of the pack.

I'm afraid my passion at the moment is Short Course, not many tracks run these yet, so wanted something I could play around with when sc not running

If budget was not an option i think I'd go for a 22, but, because of wife, £200 is about the limit (if I'm lucky)

Mad Monkey looked like a good bet (and has great reviews) but, as stated above, the B4 has a very good track record............better than mine will ever be

As everyone says.....its the driver that wins the race, I kinda have no experience, I will be the limiting factor I whatever combo I get

Of course I appreciate an element of bias toward the mm here and i think it is great, just, only really can budget for one buggy so...........I drifted a little off topic - sorry

My intent was not to insult the ansmann or budget racing, and my response was only to the other misguided chap that was suggesting the 4.1 was inferior.

I do understand your intent on keeping within your budget, and the wife off your back, and there are many hk-produced budget BL systems that should suit your needs - and, unless there's a mad rush to get going, since you mentioned the 22 and the B4.1 as options, maybe do some looking around at the "used market" and even take out an ad in the "wanted" section of the forum here (there's a reason the better known makes win all the races, and it's not because they're inferior - you stick sebastian vettle in a trash lorry, and it's still going to go around the track like a garbage truck). If you can't find a deal on one, then by all means grab yourself a MM as it should suit your needs.
Good luck, and have fun :thumbsup:

[Brabusben]

He he, thanks, there's no rush as the winter is upon us so I've basically got a few months to look around. I've posted for advice in the general race discussion as I feel it is more appropriate there. MM and B4.1 are still front runners but I reckon, initially I'll end up spending more on the MM to get something that I will be happy with (as with most RC car enthusiasts I never stop modifying) hate being on such a tight budget but the SCT has also required a little "input" and, at the moment, that takes priority as it is used much more often (almost daily). What I hate doing is spending half the money only to decide in a couple of months that I should have bought a different model, so spend out again.

Your advice is greatly appreciated, as you can tell I'm new to buggy racing, so any input is welcome..........hopefully by next season I'll have a buggy........bet it will end up costing a lot more than £200 overall, whatever I get (but the wife doesn't notice the odd £20-30 here and there lol)

[Brabusben]

My intent was not to insult the ansmann or budget racing, and my response was only to the other misguided chap that was suggesting the 4.1 was inferior.

I do understand your intent on keeping within your budget, and the wife off your back, and there are many hk-produced budget BL systems that should suit your needs - and, unless there's a mad rush to get going, since you mentioned the 22 and the B4.1 as options, maybe do some looking around at the "used market" and even take out an ad in the "wanted" section of the forum here (there's a reason the better known makes win all the races, and it's not because they're inferior - you stick sebastian vettle in a trash lorry, and it's still going to go around the track like a garbage truck). If you can't find a deal on one, then by all means grab yourself a MM as it should suit your needs.
Good luck, and have fun :thumbsup:

Lol, bet Vettle could still go round a track in a garbage truck faster than I could in my 200hp 0-60/7s 140mph smart forfour brabus ;0)

[peetbee]

If you haven't quite made up your mind about which car and you are intending to run at local clubs, then I'd recommend popping down to see what everyone is running.
That way you'll have access to setup and spares support at the track which can be invaluable rather than being the only one running a car

You can also see what motors and gearing they are running too.

[kayce]

What I hate doing is spending half the money only to decide in a couple of months that I should have bought a different model, so spend out again.

That's my only concern, as personally I hate chasing my tail spending twice when if I'd been more patient and added a couple of £'s I could have got what I really wanted.
The other option is to stumble down to your local track and see what all the local chaps are running, what's popular, what parts are readily available trackside, as it's always easier to get help with your rig if lots of others know it.
I saw your other thread, and it's why I suggested that instead of posting the vague feeler threads in the misc sections that you just post an ad in the "Wanted" section of the forum while keeping a regular eye on the "For Sale" section - you might stumble across a deal of a lifetime. ;)

[Brabusben]

Problem is I'm not sure what I want yet, that's why I've not posted in wanted section yet ;0) relying on advice of you experienced guys to guide me with that decission ;0)

Local tracks seem to be B4's, MM's, and 22's from discussion recently, spares are always going to be online, uk stock is not bad for any model compared with my SCT ;0)

If its ok I'll close this tread here to continue in the Race discussion thread as it seems more appropriate there - just so I don't end up upsetting anyone by going off topic - thanks for all your advice ;0)

[gordy]

:wtf: That's right, stick with this guy's advice, he knows what he's talking about - everyone knows ansmann dominated the A-Finals at last month's World Championships while the B4.1 struggled just to win the race. :rolleyes:

i'm sorry but hes rite the b4 is old hat regardless where it came in the worlds. its still a good car but a very old design iv been running a b4 and a x6 and i prefer the x2c to either of them. its funny how people think a ansmann is inferior to a b4 when its just not the case

[kayce]

i'm sorry but hes rite the b4 is old hat regardless where it came in the worlds. its still a good car but a very old design iv been running a b4 and a x6 and i prefer the x2c to either of them. its funny how people think a ansmann is inferior to a b4 when its just not the case

What's even funnier is people suggesting the ansmann is superior (or even equal) to a 4.1, unless they're going to show the company's latest National/World Championship banners. :lol: I remember when the Yugo's were "new," but just being a new offering didn't make them better than a Corolla or a Civic.

[gordy]

ok you obviously no what your talking about;) next you will be telling me thunder tiger are crap

[steve-thebabystore]

Irrespective of 'opinions' of which we all have more than one, Ansmann are offering great choices and options at very good prices with upgrade paths easily identified. I'm not disputing AE heritage as I have raced for over 20 years but second hand items can easily hide hidden costs as I've found out in the past.
Yes I do drive Ansmann now in an X4TE but I have used cars from all major brands including Thunder Tiger

[kayce]

ok you obviously no what your talking about;) next you will be telling me thunder tiger are crap

Nikko = Crap, though I have heard thunder tiger is now selling a rebadged B3 if you're interested.
(then again it appears you're willing to argue about anything, even stupid stuff, little wonder people regret helping people like yourself) :rolleyes:

I've had enough of this foolishness, I'm out. :lol:

[gordy]

You really have no idea do you

[kayce]

I have a really good idea that you have no idea at all. Rock on, mate. :rolleyes:

[Cardnim]

Kayce may be new, but Im starting to love him. :wub

From his profile...
[Friends:][kayce has not made any friends yet]


...no kidding.
Much love KC! :):wub

If you haven't quite made up your mind about which car and you are intending to run at local clubs, then I'd recommend popping down to see what everyone is running.
That way you'll have access to setup and spares support at the track which can be invaluable rather than being the only one running a car

You can also see what motors and gearing they are running too.

+1
This is brilliant advice, and I only wish I had done the same before I bought my first car.

[gordy]

Having read some of your other posts on other threads, far from helping people you run down products you have no personal knowledge of, you belittle people who just need a little help, and you've even abused one guy just for being from Russia.
You should be banned for that alone.

[kayce]

Having read some of your other posts on other threads, far from helping people you run down products you have no personal knowledge of, you belittle people who just need a little help, and you've even abused one guy just for being from Russia.
You should be banned for that alone.

IMPRESSIVE - I have my own Oople-Stalker!
You should be banned for that alone.


If you'd bothered actually reading my other posts, you'd have noticed that the vast overwhelming majority were respectfully helping people - just as I tried to do here - and it's not until people such as yourself chime in, with misinformation and stupid stuff, that I get dragged into some silly back and forth pointlessness. If you want to live in your delussional world, go right ahead. Keep me out of it, and quit stalking me!

[jamie 6.5t]

ill tell you the only info you will need to start up buggy racing get a (mad-rat) and drop a fusion exceed pro 6.5t brush less combo inside for around £110 and ball race everything trust me that is all you will need obviously uprate the shocks to probably a set of kyoshows or something like some losi shocks and run the basic ansmann receiver and transmitter 2.3ghz combo and you are onto a winner my friend one last thing id strongly recomend upgrade your servo to something like a savox metal gear core-less or something similar then your defo onto a winner
:thumbsup:

[Brabusben]

Lol, whoops, might have accidentally started WWIII, sorry, just wanted a little advice for a newbie (to buggies, not RC), everyone has their favourite, for good reasons. I've, personally got many favourite choices that have not been mentioned (love the Durango concept) and I'd rather race 4x4 (preferably SCT - as that's what I'm into) but what's best for one person is not for another - I want a buggy so that I can get to spend a little time with people who like RC cars, I don't care what make or model (I own two Traxxas for example - not the best, but best for me as I take my cars out all weathers). The MM may be best for me because of its price, I've watched a few racing and they are great for the money, the B4 has an undisputed pedigree, ok it's an old design, but realistically a wheel at each corner is an old design - still works pretty well though ;0). Currently a second had 22 looks good - not because of its history, but because the price is right and I like inboard motor designs. All have their merits - hence why I asked advise from experienced guys like you.

If the Ansmann cost the same as the 22 or B4.1 it might gain more respect but, from what I've seen, pound for pound, penny for penny, it's a darn good car when compared with the others discussed

Ultimately I don't care which manufacturer Makes the buggy I finally choose as long as I can have a little fun with it, it will come down to cost v's quality and MM is holding up well.

Wish I'd thought about things before I drifted off topic - sorry to trigger all the above by mentioning other manufacturers

- Ben

[kayce]

Wasn't your fault, Brabusben, we were actually having a very well rounded and mature discussion until gordy came along with his brandwhoring and misinformation. Trolls have a way of ruining everything. Don't worry, it's all good.:thumbsup: Get what you want, that suits your purposes and you get the best deal on, as it's you that has to live with your decision either way.

[Gunter]

Didn't this argument start over gordys opinion? Which u didn't agree with n rather than making a post saying ok but.... U just went off on one. Mature!!!

Facts are tho for 65 u got a stronger faster car than the b4 from what I've seen which is y I'm getting one shortly.

If the b4 was so amazing y would cml be making a conversion kit? And how many b4's were at the top of the champs? Not sure there was n were there ansmanns? Think there might of been.

Mayb you should talk to some of the top drivers in the world who run for associated and see what they say.

B4 on dirt like at the worlds miles best, astro and in this country it's miles off the pace

[kayce]

Didn't this argument start over gordys opinion? Which u didn't agree with n rather than making a post saying ok but.... U just went off on one. Mature!!!

Facts are tho for 65 u got a stronger faster car than the b4 from what I've seen which is y I'm getting one shortly.

If the b4 was so amazing y would cml be making a conversion kit? And how many b4's were at the top of the champs? Not sure there was n were there ansmanns? Think there might of been.

Mayb you should talk to some of the top drivers in the world who run for associated and see what they say.

B4 on dirt like at the worlds miles best, astro and in this country it's miles off the pace

:wtf:That would be incorrect, in fact he went off on my own opinion while saying the B4.1 was inferior and "old hat" or outdated - despite it just having won 5 consecutive World Championships, including the most recent about a month ago. So there was no logic in the statement.
The OP did not say they would be running on astro - and regardless, the conversion kits (X-factory or cml) are still essentially B4s using primarily B4 parts. Just sticking a few aftermarket parts on a car doesn't change it's brand. BTW, there were no ansmanns in the A-,B-, or C-finals at the Worlds. I never bashed the ansmann, in fact suggested it if it fit the OP's budget, while at the same time suggesting in no way was it groundbreaking or especially a winning platform or brand - while reserving your own opinion on how great it is until you actually have one and few races under your belt.

But nice job of taking the topic again off-topic. Mature!!! :rolleyes:

[Cardnim]

Some interesting points there Gunter - and good questions too.

Ben, I dont think you will go wrong with whatever buggy you choose.
As for the ESC/Motor, I know Ansmann themselves make a nice combo set called a Xirius Pro - and on RC Lazy's website, Simon put up a video of an Orca brushless combo for pretty good value.
(Ive never used either though, so cant say good or bad).

On a different tactic - you could go second hand.
I got everything (except batteries) 2nd hand, and have never had an issue with any of the electrics becuase of this. (I blew a motor, but that was my fault)
Currently on the FOR SALE section, you have several really good quality ESC's for a very low price.

Good luck with whatever you decide Ben! :)

[kayce]

On a different tactic - you could go second hand.
I got everything (except batteries) 2nd hand, and have never had an issue with any of the electrics becuase of this. (I blew a motor, but that was my fault)
Currently on the FOR SALE section, you have several really good quality ESC's for a very low price.

That's precisely what I suggested early on, since the OP did mention other brands/models. ;)

[Cardnim]

KC - chill. ;)

[kayce]

Yes mother :rolleyes:

[luniemiester]

Since i switched to the MM from a Losi 22 my results improved. I have now moved onto the Ezrun 5.5t combo which has knocked around another second off my average lap at my local track. I've had no problems with cogging on a 23 pinion and its as fast as my friends LRP ssx / 6.5t motor in the same car and i was able to put it in the D at the EOS finals this year

I got mine from here for a resonable price - http://www.giantcod.co.uk/ezrun-brushless-power-combo-p-406413.html

If your after a system for just fun then i think its good value

Just my 0.2p:thumbsup:

[Gunter]

"Just a few aftermarket parts" ......most the car totaly changing the design. but it dose use the front end of a B4

The ORCA speedo is ment to be really good and easy to setup and rapid. not sure on prices but i do like the hobbywing for the money

[Robbiejuk]

"Just a few aftermarket parts" ......most the car totaly changing the design. but it dose use the front end of a B4

The ORCA speedo is ment to be really good and easy to setup and rapid. not sure on prices but i do like the hobbywing for the money

The front end is nothing like a b4.... more RB5/XXX

It is similar to others, but the only thing on the front end that is like a b4 is the front bumper, the holes are in different places though.

AS for electrics, jyust get what you can afford, In my eyes preferably sensored.

[jim76]

think he was referring to the debate about the B4 conversions Robbie.

The Ansmanns are nothing like B4's, defo more RB5.

[gordy]

i was looking at the front of a rb5 the other night they really are remarkably similar

[MrMagoo]

"Just a few aftermarket parts" ......most the car totaly changing the design. but it dose use the front end of a B4

The ORCA speedo is ment to be really good and easy to setup and rapid. not sure on prices but i do like the hobbywing for the money

Seen way to many DOA Orca's of late... they don't have a good rep. round my way. Most everyone on a budget (and some who aren't!) have gone the H/W route and been nowt but impressed.

[kayce]

"Just a few aftermarket parts" ......most the car totaly changing the design. but it dose use the front end of a B4

OK, half the car then. Until X-factory or cml start using all their own parts, and designs said parts, it'll still be more B4 than anything else... IMHO ;)

[Brabusben]

Ok Guys, just to stop the arguments, I'm going for neither - I'm probably going for a Losi 22 - for one main reason - the changeable position of the motor - this will enable me, as a beginner in 2wd racing, to see if in-chassis or behind chassis motor set up suits my driving, it seems to have good reviews, will DEFINATELY out perform my current driving skills, seems a little more work - but I like fiddling ;0)

No disrespect to any other manufacturer as, really I don't know what I'm talking about, but picked little bits of advice from here and there and made my choice - ill deal with the consequences (TBH may be swayed toward any of them at the last minute lol)

Second reason is they are not bad second hand and my local clubs run them and there's a fair few spares stockists in the uk. Yes they've been around for a while but if I had the best buggy in the world I'd still come last at the moment so don't need the latest, just need something to get started with that won't break the bank

For me, I'd race SCTs if there were enough clubs/circuits, but there's not so I'm getting the buggy so I can participate and have a bit of fun, never been the coolest kid on the block anyway ;0)

[Cardnim]

Good job Ben - I think a good decision.
And good luck with the future racing.
(see you on the podium at the 2012 World's then!) :D

[gordy]

ben it doesn't rely mater what car you get as long as you enjoy it. i'm sorry your thread got destroyed i just lost my rag with one person that's been all over oople making people feel 1 inch tall. it just came to a head on this thread sorry. my mate runs a 22 and he loves it i'm sure you will have a lot of fun with it

[kayce]

Brabusben, I'm sure you'll find something that will allow you to remain within your budget, and like I suggested early on there seems to be many fine examples of lightly-used top-knotch buggies in the ForSale thread here. Sorry your thread went a little off-topic, but the above poster seemed more interested in going out of his way stalking and following me in the threads than actually helping by sharing factual information. I think you'll find the 22 a good car, and considering how stout the suspension bits are it'll likely be the closest thing to an sct relative to comparative toughness and durability. Have fun and good luck :D

[Cardnim]

KAYCE - just so gordy doesnt have to reply to such an abusive and personally attacking post by you - that is way out of line mate.

You are being vindictive for the sake of it, and as anyone can see quite clearly, gordy was offering opinion before being attacked by your caustic attitude. You could quite easily have put the above post without the attack on gordy; wishing Ben all the best with his new venture, but you couldnt resist getting yet another dig in to someone.

Sorry, but enough is enough.

[kayce]

KAYCE - just so gordy doesnt have to reply to such an abusive and personally attacking post by you - that is way out of line mate.

You are being vindictive for the sake of it, and as anyone can see quite clearly, gordy was offering opinion before being attacked by your caustic attitude. You could quite easily have put the above post without the attack on gordy; wishing Ben all the best with his new venture, but you couldnt resist getting yet another dig in to someone.

Sorry, but enough is enough.

Yes MOTHER, :thumbsup:
how is that dress fitting I sent you?


(p.s. my comment was no more out of line than his own - and yet the fact also remains that I didn't start the banter, gordy did)

[gordy]

Yes mother, :thumbsup:
how is that dress fitting I sent you?




god do you ever stop insulting people?

[kayce]

god do you ever stop insulting people?

Do you? :confused:





If someone's going to lecture me in the threads, like they're my mum, I'm going to call them on it.

[gordy]

hes doing it again editing his posts to take the bad bits out
i wonder how many people have reported him to the mods

[kayce]

hes doing it again editing his posts to take the bad bits out
i wonder how many people have reported him to the mods

Do you need a hanky or a tissue?





(p.s. I've edited nothing, no reason to - but your stalking and lying skills are proving to be impressively complusive)

[gordy]

wow wish id found the ignore member button before cant even see his posts now bliss

[Cardnim]

wow wish id found the ignore member button before cant even see his posts now bliss

lol. likewise :)

[kayce]

wow wish i'd found the slap button before, maybe he would have stayed away and left me alone :thumbsup:

[gordy]

now this is funny google searching for novak problems and this came up
http://www.ultimaterc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120339&page=8

[kayce]

now this is funny

Nice job of Stalking and Trolling - well done, laddie. :thumbsup:





(what's even more funny, is that if one does Google "novak problems" it doesn't even come up on the first 5 pages, let alone the first 8 pages of that thread on that forum - so someone's really doing a lot of looking and digging to find THAT -- but what's really odd, after two years of this poster being gone from here and selling off all their used equipment, the first thread they jump into is one making insults and references to their own gay tendancies http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?p=560350#post560350)

[Gunter]

[QUOTE=kayce;576235]Nice job of Stalking and Trolling - well done,

So going looking through club forums sections to purposely find dirt isn't stalking??

Pot
Kettle
Black

Seems to spring to my mind.

And I was minding my own making posts on 3/4 different other sections last night and who sprang up having a go at everything I said???

Now who's the stalker then.

[kayce]

Nice job of Stalking and Trolling - well done,

So going looking through club forums sections to purposely find dirt isn't stalking??

Pot
Kettle
Black

Seems to spring to my mind.

And I was minding my own making posts on 3/4 different other sections last night and who sprang up having a go at everything I said???

Now who's the stalker then.

GROW UP :rolleyes:




(p.s. I only responded in threads where you were digging up any motor threads just to post an unending string of "do not get a SP, I heard they melt" and other similar manufacturer bashing comments that don't help anybody)

[Gunter]

Grow up?? Hmm ur the one arguing with every1 about anything

And I wasn't bashing, If nobody comments that things have there problem then people would go out and buy products that may not be the best thing to buy and more experienced drivers would of been able to save them from wastin there money.

I guess you would be abit pissed if u bought a car from a garage n it turned out to be a total lump of rubbish n a death trap and you go back to the garage hav a go at them and they say 'we new it was a death trap and could kill you any moment but didn't want to 'bash' it so didn't say anything' how would you feel?

Pointing out the bad points can sometimes be more useful than the good ones.

[gordy]

Sorry I had to press the button again to see what he's babbling about. Kayce you are responsible for your own fair share of manufacturer bashing
What's even funnier is people suggesting the ansmann is superior (or even equal) to a 4.1,
and before you start saying it's not bashing it's fact, you are wrong on UK tracks. Gunter is a very talented UK touring car driver and buggy and a devout AE fan, and even he admits he needs a mid mount car, whether that be a centro annsmann or any other.
The link you put up to my comments was banter between friends on a club forum - I imagine not something you have much experience of!
From what I can gather you have upset a lot of people on forums all over the world, and have very nearly been banned if not have been from a lot of them. At some point you must realise it's you that is at fault, just try being nice to people and not belittling them and nobody will have a problem with you at all.

[kayce]

Sorry I had to press the button again to see what he's babbling about. Kayce you are responsible for your own fair share of manufacturer bashing

That's NOT manufacturer bashing, it's being realistic - along with shooting down your own manufacturer bashing, where you started this whole little pissing match of yours.

i'm sorry but hes rite the b4 is old hat regardless where it came in the worlds.

[gordy]

ok i have tried. mods its up to you

[kayce]

ok i have tried. mods its up to you

You "tried" :rolleyes:
I hope they ban you, because you've added no more in your last 2 weeks here (other than picking fights and ruining threads) than you did for the 2 YEARS in absentia.

From what I can gather, by your previous posting history on this forum, you added nothing then and you've added nothing since your return other than upsetting people and posting about cars you have no experience with. At some point you must realize that it is your fault; but, unfortunately for the rest of us here, that would take some rationalization and logic skills and in both cases areas you're apparently severely lacking. Go away, like you did before, and I'm betting things will be a lot more quiet around here.

[Gunter]

Shame there was no reply from my post at the end of page 3

Or is there nothing you can say back? You say Gordy dosent help any1 but I've not seen you help any1 on this forum Neva gave any advice that's useful only putting down other peoples Comments. Least others try help you just argue

[kayce]

Shame there was no reply from my post at the end of page 3

Or is there nothing you can say back? You say Gordy dosent help any1 but I've not seen you help any1 on this forum Neva gave any advice that's useful only putting down other peoples Comments. Least others try help you just argue

I'll repeat your own words back to you (maybe you'll catch the drift) -

Pot
Kettle
Black

And, frankly, if you've "not seen you help any1 on this forum" then you haven't been reading or following this forum. If you're using my responses to you and your circlejerk buddy as examples, then I'm no more guilty that either of you. Furthermore, baiting me into reading and responding to your old posts is rather immature. Get A Life, and leave me alone. :rolleyes:

[jim76]

I'm closing this thread now. Try and keep things on topic in future.