Timing systems and PT questions

[styleone]

Hi chaps,

Just looking for a general opinion please. Clubs that are currently running timing systems, what are you doing when new racers turn up without PT's?

Our club has just invested in timing gear and obviously we don't want to exclude those racers who do not have PT's

Any thoughts how you are dealing with this please?

Cheers in advance chaps :)

[Si Coe]

The current popular option is to get a set of MRT PT's as handouts. Its cheaper than the (no longer available) AMB handouts, and solves the lack of PT issue. Obviously these are not as quick to fit as handout transponders as they aren't self powered, so they are usually lent to one person for the whole meeting. Just make sure you get them back!

Creates a problem when you get more racers than you have PT's though.

[kayce]

This isn't really any longer a huge issue, being as every racer has their own transponders - but, in with keeping with the idea of making new racers feel welcome, what our club has done was buy a handfull of PTs. They're available for a rental fee £6/$10 per raceday, first come first served, and once you've rented it 10-times you own it. Helps out the new guy so he doesn't have to drop another £60 in their car. And if you don't stay interested in racing, those rental fees are "donated" to the club's coffers. Win-Win.

[Dazzler]

That's not a bad idea Kayce, obviously a little more administration for the club, but does offer the regular racers a way of obtaining a pt in an affordable manner if buying one outright isn't an option. Also, if it gets damaged, at least there's something in the pot towards paying for it.. (from their hire, and other one time hires).

Furthermore, most regulars would eventually have one. The only thing that may be required is to agree on a number of hires in a set period, as I doubt we'd want someone demanding their pt in a couple of years time when they've eventually hired it for say the tenth time..

What has been your clubs stance on damaged pt's?

Have you had any go missing? One suggestion has been holding car keys as a deposit... You're going nowhere without handing back the pt! PT's easy to forget about...

Thanks for your input.

[kayce]

That's not a bad idea Kayce, obviously a little more administration for the club, but does offer the regular racers a way of obtaining a pt in an affordable manner if buying one outright isn't an option. Also, if it gets damaged, at least there's something in the pot towards paying for it.. (from their hire, and other one time hires).

Furthermore, most regulars would eventually have one. The only thing that may be required is to agree on a number of hires in a set period, as I doubt we'd want someone demanding their pt in a couple of years time when they've eventually hired it for say the tenth time..

What has been your clubs stance on damaged pt's?

Have you had any go missing? One suggestion has been holding car keys as a deposit... You're going nowhere without handing back the pt! PT's easy to forget about...

Thanks for your input.

As I said initially, it seems most "regulars" would or should have their own already.
But, any regular (say if they get a new car, that they don't have one for yet) could "rent/borrow" one for the day as anyone else.
The idea being, if you're going to race you have to have your own transponder, yet we still want to be able to facilitate the new guy getting with the program and not feeling like he's not welcome.
But our policy has been, say if you've rented it twice, you do have the option of paying it off at any time and taking immediate fulltime possession.

The "rent to own" plan is really intended for the new guy, that shows up every week (or for every race) and will pay if off in due time - otherwise, they're told upfront that if they're just an occasional competitor that their "rental fee" will just be a donation for upkeep and repairs and having PTs on hand.

We haven't had a problem, yet, with damaged PTs - but we do keep a list of who is renting each unit (and try to keep them using just that one each time, and so we know if one gets damaged with rough handling who's to blame). But the compact ones don't seem to get damaged as easily as the old rechargables, and we give strips of sticky-back velcro to attach them inside the cars.

We haven't had a problem with them disappearing, either, as we hold a driver's license/permit (car keys would work too) as a deposit.

I wasn't too sure about it when we first started it, as we'd always had the rechargable (old school) ones along with charging stand that just turned into a pain to keep up with over time - but our new rental plan has worked out well, better than I thought, for over a year now, and all we have to keep track of is a small box for their transport.

[Dazzler]

Seems you have had the same concerns we are deliberating over... And over time squashed them...

Hopefully most will either have one or sort themselves out, I know this to be the case to be fair, and We will have this discussion with our racers.

Seems the hire thing could be the way forward.

Playing devils advocate, has anyone tipped up, no pt, not wanting to hire one, but wants to have a race. I guess I'm thinking of kids who might not be able to stretch to race fees and hire fees.

I was thinking they won't get timed, so won't automatically get entered in a final, and certainly not graded accordingly. Would you just let them get on with it, then drop them in the bottom final?

[kartstuffer]

Hi all
While on the subjectof timing does anyone know the best place (price ) to get an amb or mrt ptx.
Thanks
Ivan

[kayce]

Hi all
While on the subjectof timing does anyone know the best place (price ) to get an amb or mrt ptx.
Thanks
Ivan

Order one direct - http://www.team-mrt.com/ - you'll have it before week's end.
£44.50 each, plus £5.50 shipping = £50

[kayce]

Playing devils advocate, has anyone tipped up, no pt, not wanting to hire one, but wants to have a race. I guess I'm thinking of kids who might not be able to stretch to race fees and hire fees.

I was thinking they won't get timed, so won't automatically get entered in a final, and certainly not graded accordingly. Would you just let them get on with it, then drop them in the bottom final?

No, we haven't had that issue - yet - and the concept of the cheap (by the race) rent-to-own program we initiated was in part put in place by myself because of the kids that might show. It really comes down to the old argument, "If you've got a car, and can afford to race, a few extra pounds each week/race shouldn't hurt - or maybe you shouldn't be racing."

I mean, there's no sense having cars on the track that aren't being counted - and it's hard to rationally suggest they pay an entry fee if they're not being counted either. If you're not being counted, you're not really racing anyway.
And heck, if it came down to a kid showing up his first time and being penniless and not having mom or dad in tow - I'd willingly give them the "rental" for free, with express instructions that it's a one time deal, but telling them that the next time it's going to cost £12 to race (£6 PT fee/£6 entry fee, or whatever your club's rates are).

[singin pete]

When our club brought the new software over 12 years ago we had 20 pts. Over the years we have given them to the members when the club could afford it and replenished our stock.

We have just got some more so we still hold 20 pts, we hire them out for £1 and apart from a few racers taken them home at the end of the night (they always bring them back complete with a red face) remember most if not all racers are honest folk.

All of the higher ability drivers have pts it’s the new starters that need one.

Over the years we have had a few damaged but overall it's been a success.

I like the idea of renting them out for £5 until they have covered the cost.

[peetbee]

We have mrt pts for hire only and it seems to work well, much as the others have said.
We do have some guys who wont hire them/or we've run out and theyre happy to end up in the bottom final as a result

[styleone]

Thanks for the feedback so far guys. As Daz says...the hire purchase way could be good for those who dont want to commit short term. I think most of our racers will bite the bullet anyway....your always going to need a PT eventually either way.

We just dont want to put off the new arrivals, worst still...turn anybody away.

Thanks again for some really good case studies...really helpful advice from all posters so far :thumbsup:

[kayce]

We have mrt pts for hire only and it seems to work well, much as the others have said.
We do have some guys who wont hire them/or we've run out and theyre happy to end up in the bottom final as a result

Only issue we had with that, was last year with a couple of guys; they said they didn't care, were there to have fun, and ran in the last of the bottom final, except they also didn't take much care for keeping on track or in their lanes and caused some nasty crashes that were avoidable (all because they weren't being counted, so they didn't care where they finished). Come to find out they were bashers, only interested in getting big air off the jumps. So we had to enforce "hire a PT" rule from then on out, if only to seperate the racers from the non-racers.

[peetbee]

I guess we've been lucky then, we've not had that problem so far.
Interestingly when we've held a competition the same guys have then hired a PT for the day

[kayce]

I guess we've been lucky then, we've not had that problem so far.
Interestingly when we've held a competition the same guys have then hired a PT for the day

I'm confused; so are you saying a weekly club race isn't considered a competiton, and only the larger ones where trophies are awarded?
Because to me if you are on the track you need to be counted (have PT), and be racing for position, for otherwise they're just rolling roadblocks. :woot:

[peetbee]

No points are awarded for a normal clubnight that go towards an overall championship, so that's why I described it as not being a competition.

They do tend to all end up in the same heat and final, but if they're happy and are driving to the best of their abilities then who cares if their laps are counted?!
As I said the ones that then want to take their driving more seriously hire PTs for the 'competitions'.

[kayce]

No points are awarded for a normal clubnight that go towards an overall championship, so that's why I described it as not being a competition.

They do tend to all end up in the same heat and final, but if they're happy and are driving to the best of their abilities then who cares if their laps are counted?!
As I said the ones that then want to take their driving more seriously hire PTs for the 'competitions'.

OK, I understand now.
And I guess that would be where my concern lays, as (despite them being regular competitors) they're leaving having a "Personal Transponder" up to the club to provide. This is where, being as PTs were so routinely used and readily available, that clubs went away from the old-school rechargable transponders. Just seems like unneccessary administration and cost for the club. We tend to look at the hires (or rent-to-own) program is for the new guys, not the old guys that can't be bothered shelling about a few pounds as every other experienced racer has - but I guess if you're club doesn't mind footing the bill for keeping them at the ready (for the cheap-arses) to hire then it's your call. Every club has to make, and live with, their own policies, and nothing works everywhere. :D

[peetbee]

True.
They are on a first come first served basis, so the regulars sometimes miss out to the newbies!

[kayce]

They are on a first come first served basis, so the regulars sometimes miss out to the newbies!

This where I'm concerned that there is a flaw in the system - being as the hires/rentals are on a first-come first-served basis, then there's also an opportunity for a new guy to get left out (and that should never happen). One club tried to do that, but it was the regulars that would time their arrival early and guarantee getting one and it ended up chasing off the newbies (and making them feel unwanted). Once they started demanding ownership of the regulars, not only did participation rise but so did the number of new members.

[peetbee]

We've just been lucky I guess, interesting to hear other clubs experiences though and something we can monitor.