Battery shorted!?

[Origineelreclamebord]

Hi everyone,

I had a big problem with my electronics. I wired up my battery (Team Orion 2s 4600mAh 45C) to my car and there was a huge spark at the connector (TRX) when I tried to connect it. The plates of the connectors were pretty warm afterwards (easily still touchable though). Half an hour ago I tried to start the car but it seems dead.

I tried other electronics, but they do not work with the same battery, so the battery is probably dead. I can't try the other electronics but I am afraid it will be awfully silent there as well. Am I right thinking this? :(

All electronics (except for the receiver, Futaba R603FS) were bought in August and have had less than 25 runs in total. Is it realistic that I can get broken units repaired or replaced on warranty? (Savöx SC-1251MG, Castle 1406 4600kV+Sidewinder V2 and the Team Orion battery).

PS: I've always taken good care of the battery, charging it with the balancer plug connected, so I really can't understand how this could've happened.

[mark christopher]

its highly unlikley your battery has failed, its 99.9% certain you have blown your speedo, its also highly unlikley any manufacture will honour any warranty, as its user error, and most modern speedos are unrepairable, most simply supply a new one. sorry to be blunt but you need to clearly mark you wiring or make it impossible to connect the wrong way round.

[Origineelreclamebord]

its highly unlikley your battery has failed, its 99.9% certain you have blown your speedo, its also highly unlikley any manufacture will honour any warranty, as its user error, and most modern speedos are unrepairable, most simply supply a new one. sorry to be blunt but you need to clearly mark you wiring or make it impossible to connect the wrong way round.

I've tried it on another speedo and receiver, it still doesn't work. I don't see wires connected the wrong way around, but I did take them out and reconnected them a few hours later. I'm always careful making sure everything is connected right, so I'm puzzled that this happened. I can only hope a wire is faulty but that's rather unlikely (at least as being the only thing broken).

[kayce]

I've tried it on another speedo and receiver, it still doesn't work. I don't see wires connected the wrong way around, but I did take them out and reconnected them a few hours later.

I'm curious "what's changed" since last time you used your car. While a small arc can occur on occassion when connecting a lipo battery, there really shouldn't be any "huge spark" - which tells me there's a dead-short, somewhere - so it has me questioning if you've changed a connector or some other component that could have lead to a short curcuit. Usually rc electronics are fairly robust, and it just appears you have a dead short (or something connected backwards) in one of the components.

All you can really do is troubleshoot - replacing individual components, one-by-one - until you locate the offending party.



All electronics (except for the receiver, Futaba R603FS) were bought in August and have had less than 25 runs in total. Is it realistic that I can get broken units repaired or replaced on warranty? (Savöx SC-1251MG, Castle 1406 4600kV+Sidewinder V2 and the Team Orion battery).

I doubt it.
As with most electronics items, most RC electronics aren't covered under warranty unless they're new out of the box (yours aren't) - especially not all 3 or 4 items. You can try, but don't hold your breath.

[JCJC]

http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78479&highlight=lipo+fuse

this may be helpful

[daz]

I'm curious "what's changed" since last time you used your car. While a small arc can occur on occassion when connecting a lipo battery, there really shouldn't be any "huge spark" - so it has me questioning if you've changed a connector or some other component that could have lead to a short curcuit. Usually rc electronics are fairly robust, and it just appears you have a dead short (or something connected backwards) in one of the components.

All you can really do is troubleshoot - replacing individual components, one-by-one - until you locate the offending party.



I doubt it.
As with most electronics items, most RC electronics aren't covered under warranty unless they're new out of the box (yours aren't) - especially not all 3 or 4 items. You can try, but don't hold your breath.

Your talking bollox again, my new washing machine has a massive warranty:thumbsup:

[Origineelreclamebord]

I'm curious "what's changed" since last time you used your car. While a small arc can occur on occassion when connecting a lipo battery, there really shouldn't be any "huge spark" - which tells me there's a dead-short, somewhere - so it has me questioning if you've changed a connector or some other component that could have lead to a short curcuit. Usually rc electronics are fairly robust, and it just appears you have a dead short (or something connected backwards) in one of the components.

All you can really do is troubleshoot - replacing individual components, one-by-one - until you locate the offending party.



I doubt it.
As with most electronics items, most RC electronics aren't covered under warranty unless they're new out of the box (yours aren't) - especially not all 3 or 4 items. You can try, but don't hold your breath.



http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78479&highlight=lipo+fuse

this may be helpful

Thanks for your replies. I'm preparing for the worst in terms of costs, but I can't afford to buy new electronics again :(

I really hope the Orion's indeed have an internal fuse like the topic suggests, it might have saved (some of) my electronics. If it is a fuse though I do wonder how I'm going to get that fixed.

[mark christopher]

Thanks for your replies. I'm preparing for the worst in terms of costs, but I can't afford to buy new electronics again :(

I really hope the Orion's indeed have an internal fuse like the topic suggests, it might have saved (some of) my electronics. If it is a fuse though I do wonder how I'm going to get that fixed.

will the battery charge at all? if it wont then it could be a fuse, did not know orion did this :blush:

[Origineelreclamebord]

will the battery charge at all? if it wont then it could be a fuse, did not know orion did this :blush:

I could have a look at that, though I just hope it won't blow up my charger as well... Fingers crossed!

*2 minutes later*

The charger is still working, but it gave the warning 'contact break,' yet did notice the balancer was connected. So I guess the fuse has indeed blown. I just hope the peak that went through the wiring didn't kill my ESC, at 4600mAh and 45C it's quite a peak it must be able to handle before it goes, so my ESC could well be dead, even though there was no smoke or anything coming from it.

I contacted Team Orion whether it's within the warranty or if it isn't, how much the repairs would cost. Tonight I'll test the ESC, receiver and servo with another battery.

[kayce]

Tonight I'll test the ESC, receiver and servo with another battery.

Until you trouble-shoot and check those, there's no real way of knowing anything... or what to question.

[JCJC]

will the battery charge at all? if it wont then it could be a fuse, did not know orion did this :blush:

I am not convinced they do, but did recall the other post (how sad is that:bored:) could easy be an internal battery connection that has melted and is acting like a fuse, put a voltmeter on the battery if you have one, I am not sure if I would try cutting a lipo open to check inside. Do check all your cars connections -don't repeat with another battery and get the same result.

[Origineelreclamebord]

I am not convinced they do, but did recall the other post (how sad is that:bored:) could easy be an internal battery connection that has melted and is acting like a fuse, put a voltmeter on the battery if you have one, I am not sure if I would try cutting a lipo open to check inside. Do check all your cars connections -don't repeat with another battery and get the same result.

I found several sources (Conrad Store and RCTech amongst them) stating and mentioning they have an internal fuse, so I guess they do.

I read the last bit too late if it had gone wrong, but it didn't luckily. It gets even better, all the parts on the car are still working :o I'm amazed the Sidewinder (and the other electronics) didn't give in to the massive current that went through it! My compliments there, it seems like it payed off to buy A Brand electronics.

Anyway, I still remain with the problem that the battery doesn't work. I really hope Team Orion will help me out. If they don't I will consider opening the case so a student Electrical Technician can help me replace or by-pass the broken fuse. Doing this however means I will arrange some equipment for basic protection, and some research into how they can be opened with the least amount of risk and effort.

[kayce]

I found several sources (Conrad Store and RCTech amongst them) stating and mentioning they have an internal fuse, so I guess they do.

I read the last bit too late if it had gone wrong, but it didn't luckily. It gets even better, all the parts on the car are still working :o I'm amazed the Sidewinder (and the other electronics) didn't give in to the massive current that went through it! My compliments there, it seems like it payed off to buy A Brand electronics.

Anyway, I still remain with the problem that the battery doesn't work. I really hope Team Orion will help me out. If they don't I will consider opening the case so a student Electrical Technician can help me replace or by-pass the broken fuse. Doing this however means I will arrange some equipment for basic protection, and some research into how they can be opened with the least amount of risk and effort.


Being as odds are that battery failure is a result of something the user has done wrong, I've seen very few instances where battery manufacturers will warranty their products (other than from new). Good luck.

Otherwise, here's a link to a video I once saw on repairing yours yourself, if you're handy that way - hope it helps. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UClcOe8bmAA

[JCJC]

Sounds good Origineelreclamebord, so can we assume the fuse saved your esc (and more) at the possible cost to you of your battery.

I have seen (we have all seen) the utube video's of punctured lipo's, fools banging nails into them etc, I am sure if you are very careful you could open the hard case and glue it back after, not so sure you would be allowed to use it in the UK if it was noticed, be very careful & good luck.

Edit: Video a great find Kayce, Now know for sure I will never do this.

[Origineelreclamebord]

Sounds good Origineelreclamebord, so can we assume the fuse saved your esc (and more) at the possible cost to you of your battery.

I have seen (we have all seen) the utube video's of punctured lipo's, fools banging nails into them etc, I am sure if you are very careful you could open the hard case and glue it back after, not so sure you would be allowed to use it in the UK if it was noticed, be very careful & good luck.

Edit: Video a great find Kayce, Now know for sure I will never do this.

Luckily I don't drive in competitions yet, and there's a few miles of sea between me and the UK. Actually, the last bit is a problem. I don't have a nice track nearby :p

@Kayce: Thanks for the video! It's a bit pityful to know they are glued together so well, but it's good to know how the hard case is actually closed. I thought they might be using snap hooks.

[bodgit]

If you do decide to open it up take some pictures and post them.

[Ted Maul]

Thanks for your replies. I'm preparing for the worst in terms of costs, but I can't afford to buy new electronics again :(

I really hope the Orion's indeed have an internal fuse like the topic suggests, it might have saved (some of) my electronics. If it is a fuse though I do wonder how I'm going to get that fixed.

Was me that started the other thread and binned the lipo at local recycling depot. Worked on the principle that sacrifice of a 2yo lipo vs a brand new £160 speedo was worthwhile. Considering moving to deans plugs!

[jukeboxman]

I have opened a HK branded Li-po when it stopped supplying any current - what I found inside was a small piece of PCB cut in the shape of a flattened X - the two tags from each cell were wrapped round the legs of the X to give the 2S configuration and poorly soldered - the board was also cracked and the copper strip attached to the PCB had burnt through.
I resoldered all joints and added a piece of copper cable across the crack in the board and filleted it neatly with solder. Worked perfectly since.

You may have something similar in your pack - but I recommend getting someone competent to do the job - and then the pack can only be classed as 'safety' compromised....meaning that you shouldn't really use it for insured events because it won't really be covered.

[Origineelreclamebord]

I wish this LiPo was 2 years old, it's only 3 months old :( I would really hate to bin it, but if I consider opening the battery as an unsafe operation I think it's still the best option to safely get rid of it.

However, it might not be necessary to do so. I contacted Team Orion, and although they adviced against repairing it, the contact did admit it is possible. There is indeed a small PCB in there that burns if too big a current is drained from the battery, though it could potentially also be a melted solder joint.

I will probably have a go at opening it to check on the damage. If the PCB is burnt then I could try to get hold of a replacement one. If that isn't possible then soldering a piece of wire in place of the PCB is the only option.

All things considered, repairing this makes the battery more of a risk to use, so for serious racing I'll probably get a new pack anyway, just to be safe. I'll definetely get a battery again with a fuse/PCB in it to protect my other electronics, but it will probably have to be second hand. Is there anyone with a good condition Team Orion stick pack, 4000+mAh, 40+mAh that they can part with? :confused: :)

[Origineelreclamebord]

Update on this: The case has been opened without infernos or other damage to the cells (Pictures are to be added soon).

After some searching and thinking, I decided to try and open it with a scalpel. I started to cut at the front face of the battery for a little practice. After all it can't hurt to hit the print board with a blade :lol: After a little cutting I noticed how thin an overlap was actually welded together (ultrasonic welding, for anyone who might want to know). It was also good to see which part locked in which: The top part of the casing has a rib running along the edge of the case which fits inside the lower part. So if you cut from the top part downwards, it's more likely to have plastic material between the blade and the lipo cells.

After seeing this I decided it was the time to take 'the giant leap' and open it all the way. A tense minute or two, and a small hole in the front allowed me to open it at the front by twisting a screwdriver in the hole (from parallel to the seam to perpendicular to it). From there on I could gently pull it open.

The damage seems to be a loose solder on the + side of the print board :o To make access easier I also pulled the top part of the case off the cell. This took a lot more work, as it was thoroughly taped to the top with double sided tape. An old membership card did a nice job when gently forced between the cell and casing and eventually the tape gave way. During this it was critical to make sure the cells wouldn't twist, bend or anything.

In the end the loose + mount on the battery gave way, so it needs to be mounted/soldered back on. It seems like it could be an easy and cheap fix: A student electrical engineering may be able to help me to exactly figure out the problem (just to be safe) and this battery may actually be used again for training sessions and in a basher or two next season :thumbsup: