Need more steering on the C4.1

[peharder]

Dear all experienced racers.

For some weeks I have raced the C4.1 on a carpet track www.rchallen.dk. The balance of the car is good and the handling on jumps and high speed sweepers, but the car could use a lot more steering, especially in the tight corners.

I have tried a lot of your setups and going through your posts I can't really find the solution to this.

I do have a good diff - I only use Schumacher Minipin in the rear with standard Schumacher insert - use 35 oil front and rear - tried in and out on arms - tried various camber link positions - tried short and long wheelbase - run from -1 to -2 camber front and rear - tried various wings.

I also tried Schumacher Minipin in the front on narrow and standard wheels. Both with soft insert, but the car acts strange and is very difficult to drive so I use the rib stagger with extra cuts.

Weight is mainly in the front at the servo and Ghea - total weight is 1620.

Looking forward to have your feed back:drool:

Regards
Peter

[Chrislong]

It might be your driving style vs the change of chassis to one which is very different? What car did you have before (which you are comparing to)?

The C4.1 does feel to generate a lot of rear side bite to me (which I like). So perhaps try using 0.5° or 1°, or even 1.5° rear hubs on reversed - reducing rear toe-in.... I wouldn't do this for anything but insane high grip carpet racing.

I would also run the car softer, allow the chassis to roll. but as the chassis is narrow, mount some weights either side of the chassis to encourage it to roll more.... need it to roll before braking front traction..

[Stuweatherman]

I was very surprised to read this, but what does make me wonder is what servo you are using?? I have a graupner des 808 bb mg which is 8.8kg of torque and 0-60 in 0.05 and i've had to turn my steering arc rate down to -60 to calm it down. Maybe you just don't have a fast enough servo as I've found the c4.1 to be the opposite to what you've said. I've been trying to find more rear end as it has immense turn in. You do have to push it hard in though.

[peharder]

Thanks for the hints.

I have tried to run the car softer with 30 all around but that made the car too soft and slow.

I normally run 1:8 offroad. So the 1:10 experience is limited.

Savöx SC-1251MG is what I use. I also glued the servo saver which did improve the on power steering a bit.

Comparing the C4.1 with TLR and Team C it seems like the C4.1 is better on jumps and landing but has less steering.

Regards
Peter

[Stuweatherman]

The low profile servo is a little sluggish compared to the 1258. I have the low profile one in my hades and compared to my c4.1 the steering is slower.

[kayce]

It might be your driving style vs the change of chassis to one which is very different?

:thumbsup:

Seems a lot of chaps come from some type of 4wd class, and what they think is a "lack of steering" is more the normal oversteer of a RWD 2wd - and they need to learn to drive the new rig instead of expecting the car to do it all for them, being as it take an entirely different technique.

I always think it a mistake someone starting off in 4wd, as they never learn to drive that way as the cars make up a lot for a lack of talent.

[JoelMaher]

try removing some weight from the front, i've always thought of using weight in the front of the car to numb the steering.

[peharder]

I will try removing some weight from the front.

The driving style is different from what I'm used to but still I think the car could have more steering

What insert and wheels do you use with the front mini pin? I might have used too soft insert.

Regards
Peter

[Chrislong]

Compared to 1:8th you'll have a lot less steering. With 2wd you'll need to turn in off-power/on-brakes, and power in straight-er lines. So you can change grip at either end which is where droop and suspension changes come in to effect weight transfer. You can change camber settings to effect roll centres. Play with weight and aerodynamics to effect balance and degree of roll/weight transfer.... there is an optimum spring weight for each tyre/surface and grip level - too soft and the suspension will absorb the weight of the tyre pressed into the surface, too hard and the car will break traction before the chassis pitches...

My point with the softer suspension, is the C4.1 is very narrow, less weight causing chassis pitch/roll into a corner, so make it pitch more and perhaps it will help you.. but too soft spring rate will make the suspension feel lazy, need to keep the suspension moving fast. Get it pitching, and then alter camberlinks to effect roll centres to achieve the mid corner balance. If your confident all this is fine on yours, try rear toe in - reducing it.

I ran mine relatively stiff at first event, on low grip (sportshall floor) and it was very balanced and high enough grip. However I have changed for a much softer setting for next meeting to try my theory of making the car roll as it is a much narrower chassis than I am used to.

[Colinevan]

As a quick fix to try when your reasonably happy with a setup is to add drag brake to your esc.

Makes a difference to an under steering car. Braking adds the weight up front as it shifts from being at the rear whilst accelerating.

Try and experiment and see if this helps .

[kayce]

The driving style is different from what I'm used to but still I think the car could have more steering

And I still think your expectations are too high - because 2wd cars never turn as well on-power as 4wd cars.
2wd buggies are only going to steer but so much - and then, as others have suggested, other than the obvious softening of your set-up (to allow more chassis roll), you need to follow the driving suggestions of Chrislong.
The steering capabilities on a 2wd car (outside of suspension set-up) is limited to changes in front tyres, and strength (torque rating) of servo. If you've optimized these, which it appears you have, and are using suspension settings similar to others at the track - then odds are it's your driving style/technique that needs changing to account for the natural oversteer tendencies of the 2wd car.

[Toyman]

I would play with rear camber link length (make it shorter) followed by longer wheelbase and softer (green) springs.

[peharder]

I will try a more soft car and remove weight from the front plus a Savöx SC1257TG.

With regards to the camber links it is my experience from 1:8 offroad that a shorter and more angeld camber link makes the car rotate better. What is your experience on the front and rear camber links on the C4.1?

Regards
Peter

[Chrislong]

Makes a difference to an under steering car. Braking adds the weight up front as it shifts from being at the rear whilst accelerating.


Sorry to correct you Colin but you're wrong. Drag brake is setting what the ESC does when at neutral but the car is coasting...

So it won't effect the car on power, or on brake. What this effect does, is bring back a bit of a brushed motor feel to an otherwise free-er rolling brushless motor (as an example).

It automatically brakes when coasting, which personally I hate, turn it off, let my thumb do the braking...

[Toyman]

With regards to the camber links it is my experience from 1:8 offroad that a shorter and more angeld camber link makes the car rotate better. What is your experience on the front and rear camber links on the C4.1?

Regards
Peter

yes, it's my experience too, that how I overcame understeer on B4 Vega that I own. Not exactly C4.1, but very close