cobra round 3 thread which isn't closed yet!!

[axeman]

One question are we pitting outside in a gazebo??:confused:
If yes

Please can talywain hold a round???

[JACKOR33]

Evening axe,

The gazebo is purely there if we had 50-60 odd entries(which would make it the busiest round of the series) and need the extra space. Its not an open gazebo like most people use for pitting its more of a marquee type tent tbh with side walls and a roof.
If some people want more space and to go in it thats fine....

At present we have 34 actual bodies entered across a few classes this amount is easily catered for within the hall

Hope that clarifies for ya:thumbsup:

dave

[axeman]

nice one you did have me worried for a min...

Not a bad idea though end of winter indoor finals at talywain!! we could even run the micro's if we used the all astro track!!

[Pops]

nice one you did have me worried for a min...

Not a bad idea though end of winter indoor finals at talywain!! we could even run the micro's if we used the all astro track!!


Well if you have a day like today axe why not!! I was in a t shirt in gargen all afternoon and itr was lovely!

[axeman]

end of march is free in the talywain diary

[peetbee]

maybe next year Steve, lets just concentrate on the rounds we already have organised shall we!

[big dave]

If you have 34 booked so far. How many more can you fit in the hall before you need to use the gazebo

[axeman]

Pete If you give me a date, I will run the event then email you the results. simples. no need for the wrca to panic:thumbsup:

[leeboy44]

Pete If you give me a date, I will run the event then email you the results. simples. no need for the wrca to panic:thumbsup:

The WRCA has got to much else to worry about then adding I new venue axman! Lol

[millzy]

Personally I think this year has been a massive improvement and shows the way the WRCA is going- We now have a head reff and team who have attended all meetings and kept an excelled level of consistency


The Championship has been hugely support from drives accurse all regions and from the Uk Nationals - Driving standards and Marshalling are clearly improved over the years and we have a high number of talented drives who are now looking to compete at National level- As well as a number of new drivers who have come into he sport ,we also have a higher number of junior drivers competing that in previous years.

The tracks that have been created are some of the best I have seen in over 15 years of racing and I tip my hat to those involved in the hard work that is put in to create such tracks that are a challenge and a joy to race on

The offer to add Tally is a nice idea, Unforchanety, I don’t think we can add another round to the Indoor Championship this far in

Lets keep things as they are – but please do not take this as a slap in the face of not being welcome or that we do not want to race at Tally. or any other club that wishes to be part of the Indoor and Outdoor championships

[Jamie.T]

Perhaps from the committee side, things have now improved, and with the work Pete belsten has put into the winter championship, its certainly all helping.

However, after the cobra fiasco with capped entries etc, i cant help feel people have lost faith. The fact that cobra had to cap entries for H&S is fully understandable, but why the WRCA didnt step in to make it fair or suggest an alternative prior to the public announcement/slating thread i shall never know.

More needs to be sorted out in house prior to these announcements, especially to aid in restoring peoples confidence after the shambles that has been the past 2 years.

Im led to believe that this year 3 clubs have withdrawn from the WRCA (perhaps not officially "yet) ,and all shortly after the cobra thread on here. This is just a testament to my earlier comment of sorting things before announcing.

P.s, this isnt a slating post, its to give the WRCA an idea of how i and many others feel, and hopefully you can take it on board to make the 2013 season better.

[millzy]

Suggestions where put to the club, The club responded in what it feels is a viable option to address the issues raised by the WRCA members and competing drivers.

[Jamie.T]

I meant before the "re-discussion" this Sunday just been. How come the issue was not addressed by the WRCA prior to the capping discussion on here. Could have saved everybody a lot of hassle/time and prevented competitors from dropping out.

[millzy]

I think it’s only fair we give COBRA a chance. I can only apologies on behalf of the WRCA if members feel we should have publicly addressed this sooner- I can assure you that we where working behind the scenes regarding the issue as soon as we where aware of it.
Giving commitments out side of the WRCA Sunday was the first time we could meet with COBRA at there venue and understand the size of the issue and address it in a way that we felt was best for the club and the championship

Suggestions where put forward by both parties. Following this what was felt as the best option to give COBRA a chance to run at there venue and prove they are able to run a successful round at there venue where reached.

As vice chairman I am more than happy to meet with any club committee and members who have issues they wish to address to the WRCA and we will address accordingly. Please feel free to Email me ( my email will be on the WRCA site as soon as I remember to tell Pete) and would rather do so in that form of contact that on an online publicforum or facebook

[DCM]

Who are these three 'clubs' that have discussed leaving the WRCA Jamie?

[Jamie.T]

I dont think any direct contact or conversations need to be had, it certainly wouldnt fill me with anymore confidence. The WRCA members have lost faith, and to restore that it will take proof, and a lot of effort from the WRCA committee.

I was going up for WRCA chairmanship in the AGM that has just been, the reason i changed my mind is due to the scale of work required after talking to lots of people about what they think, so i really do know first hand how much work is needed.

I will support as best i can, as im sure many others will, but changes need to be made. Learn from your mistakes, last year it was having a round at Ledbury, who then never supported the rest of the season and pocketed the extra income of us Welsh visitors, this year its the capped entry at cobra, and no doubt to follow will be rd4 of the micro series at WORM (possibly another repeat of Ledbury...).

[Jamie.T]

Who are these three 'clubs' that have discussed leaving the WRCA Jamie?

Its not my place to say, im sure an official club statement will be made in due course by the clubs own committee member(s)

[DCM]

I dont think any direct contact or conversations need to be had, it certainly wouldnt fill me with anymore confidence. The WRCA members have lost faith, and to restore that it will take proof, and a lot of effort from the WRCA committee.

I was going up for WRCA chairmanship in the AGM that has just been, the reason i changed my mind is due to the scale of work required after talking to lots of people about what they think, so i really do know first hand how much work is needed.

I will support as best i can, as im sure many others will, but changes need to be made. Learn from your mistakes, last year it was having a round at Ledbury, who then never supported the rest of the season and pocketed the extra income of us Welsh visitors, this year its the capped entry at cobra, and no doubt to follow will be rd4 of the micro series at WORM (possibly another repeat of Ledbury...).

But isn't this the issue though Jamie, EVERYONE knows what is wrong with the WRCA, but nobody can put it as a proposal for the AGM, or actually attend the AGM to maybe go on the committee to make a difference and bring those changes in. I think the WRCA committee are all for constructive criticism, but those people also need to step up to the plate and get stuff done to?

[Jamie.T]

Yep, your right Steve. I regularly voice my opinion and what i believe to be constructive thoughts/opinions, but many others dont.

Perhaps they dont feel their opinions matter, or they wont be listened to. Or maybe they've made suggestions in the past which have simply been ignored, who knows.

Maybe we should have a section where people can post their ideas, and ideas only, not a place for bitching and keep it moderated just incase? Are you able to set an appropriate thread up Steve?

[DCM]

Unfortunately, I only moderate the section with Pete, you would need to ask Pete that.

Things won't change until people bring matters into public instead of chatting amongst themselves, so ask Pete, as he is on the WRCA committee.

[millzy]

Jamie I have not long posted that opinions views and issues can be emailed directly to me, I dont think a section on a public forum where post may or not be read by the committee is the best way. your more than free to post any rant or opinion on any social forum but please do not criticise the WRCA committee for not acting on any issue if direct contact has not been made

You have posted your self that you did not feel direct contact is needed or fill you with confidence, yet you wish to voice your opinion indirectly in a public forum as you feel this is the best way to bring attention of any matter to the committee.

Im sorry to say i disagree, and I apologies for singling you out, but my point is we do not want to use this means of contact for issues and suggestions , I feel that the options offered and more than fair on the means and ways to address the commute regarding raising matters and putting forward suggestions.

[Jamie.T]

Put it this way then Chris:

How many people have voiced their opinion on a public forum = LOTS.
How many people have voiced their opinion trackside = LOTS
And how many people have spoken to the WRCA directly = Little if at all anyone

My point is that despite discussing on a public forum is less than ideal, at least it gets people talking, and it gives the WRCA committee something to read and get the general feeling. At the AGM proposals were asked for, and very little were given, this just proves my point.

People will not and do not speak via the appropriate channels anymore, the internet and forums is where most matters take place. I spoke with H last year and agreed that discussing on a public forum is not good, but after the poor showing at the AGM, it seems at least discussing it on a forum is better than not discussing at all.

The past few threads which have been closed also prevented any progress, moderating the content would have been a better idea. Despite the discussion being quite heated, at least it was progress and you could get a feel for how people felt.

Ask those same people to e-mail you with their thoughts and i doubt youd receive 1 e-mail.

[DCM]

If we moderate a thread, we get people complaining, if we lock thread, people complain, if we leave it open, shit is posted, simples.

Jamie, right, careless of what works 'best' the 'process for change' in an organisation or a club is via the AGM, and people have to propose changes and get the seconded, and ideally be there to sell their proposal. Now, whether that is ideal is neither here or there, it is the procedure that we have to follow until otherwise it is changed via an AGM.

So, if you don't propose stuff, and maybe attend, it doesn't get discussed at the AGM where changes are made to what the organising body is to do over the next 12 months.

FORUMS are not the place to make proposals and wont get changes implemented, simples.

[jaysllim]

problem with internet is u read it how u want to read it

[Jamie.T]

If we moderate a thread, we get people complaining, if we lock thread, people complain, if we leave it open, shit is posted, simples.

Jamie, right, careless of what works 'best' the 'process for change' in an organisation or a club is via the AGM, and people have to propose changes and get the seconded, and ideally be there to sell their proposal. Now, whether that is ideal is neither here or there, it is the procedure that we have to follow until otherwise it is changed via an AGM.

So, if you don't propose stuff, and maybe attend, it doesn't get discussed at the AGM where changes are made to what the organising body is to do over the next 12 months.

FORUMS are not the place to make proposals and wont get changes implemented, simples.

Steve, you dont need to tell me how it works, im very, very well aware how.

But you can cry and preach all day for people to bring their ideas to the AGM, but it wont and hasnt worked. To proof that point look at the AGM just been, wasnt it 6 or 7? Not even the whole committee attended. :thumbsup:

The WRCA needs to restore faith in people to take part in the events, to do that the WRCA NEED'S to adopt ideas, but people arent very forthcoming in attending AGM's to bring forward their ideas/proposals. Its a catch 22 situation. So maybe the WRCA need to incorporate this and listen to people regardless of the method, whether it be oOple, facebook or whatever.

Once ideas have been captured by whatever means, they can be implemented to make the series stronger, once thats done then you may see a few more attend the AGM's

Everybody has something to say, nobody is right or wrong, but they have an equal say. All im saying is, listen to them by whatever means because relying on an AGM once a year with a rubbish turnout simply IS NOT working. Time to modernise....

[Dyna]

Sorry Jamie, i repect your view but i dont agree there.

Time after time you see people saying " this dosent work, or thats rubbish or the WRCA is pants " but you never seem to see those people offering a viable alternative, let alone a decent suggestion. Or even saying " hell, ill put my money where my mouth is and offer to become a committee member and change things from a position of power ".... people like the idea of change, or moan about how crap it appears to be in their eyes, but when it comes down to it they never want to do the work associated with changing it and running it.

Most people have never been part of a committee, and frankly have no idea of how much time it takes up, and the extra stress that can be involved. Yes, i have been on committee's... numerous tennis club & coaching committees... it can be bloody hard and un-rewarding work sometimes :lol:

How do you suggest the WRCA changes ? Takes a wild guess occasionally or a stab in the dark ? The whole point of AGM's is for people to turn up and have their say & offer suggestions, try to change things or offer to become committe members.

To change something you need :

a) a viable, thought-out alternatives to presently non-working ideas

b) good, thought-out new suggestions

c) the balls to become part of the solution

Yes, there were only 6 of us at the last WRCA AGM - and yes, i was the only non-WRCA committee or non-club committe member there. And yes, there were a few suggestions, ALL of which were discussed at length and voted on.

If you start taking suggestions via written word on forums, you cannot get all the pros & cons like that, nor discuss them properly. It just dosent happen. You need all suggestions or ideas beforehand, then discuss at length in a meeting.

If you want to change how the WRCA operates or offer alternative suggestions, then attend AGM's. Sorry, but thats really the only way. In my opinion anyway....

Rant over. For the moment :lol:

[Jamie.T]

Mat, i compleely i agree, and discussing things at an AGM is 100% the best option, but people didnt attend the last one and very few proposals were made, so nothing could move forward or suitable changes made.

The WRCA needs a radical solution on getting people to attend and to sit down for 10mins and type out their thoughts constructively to submit as proposals.

My idea was to openly discuss on a forum, depsite the fact i know what will happen, but its better than nothing.

Does anybody else know of an alternative method to get the members to put their thoughts across constructively, or attend an AGM. Perhaps offer everybody a tenner? LOL

[millzy]

Mat, i compleely i agree, and discussing things at an AGM is 100% the best option, but people didnt attend the last one and very few proposals were made, so nothing could move forward or suitable changes made.

The WRCA needs a radical solution on getting people to attend and to sit down for 10mins and type out their thoughts constructively to submit as proposals.

My idea was to openly discuss on a forum, depsite the fact i know what will happen, but its better than nothing.

Does anybody else know of an alternative method to get the members to put their thoughts across constructively, or attend an AGM. Perhaps offer everybody a tenner? LOL

We do yes- fully with you that we need more attendies at the AGM, maybe at the end club day or regional meeting? would work?? i dont know as its a long way off and i have not thought much on it at present

Can I ask as we dont go off topic and the AMG ideas are left for another time and foucs on the indoor championship and the next round at COBRA that I hope you will all attend and support

[DCM]

Mat, i compleely i agree, and discussing things at an AGM is 100% the best option, but people didnt attend the last one and very few proposals were made, so nothing could move forward or suitable changes made.

Does anybody else know of an alternative method to get the members to put their thoughts across constructively, or attend an AGM. Perhaps offer everybody a tenner? LOL

Right, yes the AGM is where stuff should get discussed, and unfortunately, that means people have to get off their butts and go, every WRCA AGM I have been to has been poorly attended, but plenty of people criticising. So, that brings us up to the second statement, if people are THAT concerned over the decisions being made, then that should be enough to make them want to attend the AGM..... If you are that passionate about things, then you would make the effort to attend, hell, I am less passionate than I have been in years to do with the WRCA (not that the WRCA is a bad organisation, more the apathy within it), but I still attended this years.

Forums, great, but they don't convey emotion or wit or sarcasm correctly, things can be misread etc and they just don't convey a good discussion.

[Evsie]

I agree with Jamie, and not simply because he's a very good friend of mine.

Things need to change drastically @ the WRCA if it is ever going to prosper;

As most of you will know I'm not as active a member/racer as some in the WRCA as I work silly hours but I was amazed @ the situation with COBRA with regard to capping entries/limiting entry. As a result of this situation I know for a fact that it has put plenty of people off and will probably not get the support that it would get without the issues we've had in the last week.

Sad but true, not blaming COBRA but things aren't ideal. Maybe if there was a better communication between the Welsh clubs and with the WRCA then this situation might never have transpired.

I know there was a criticism from some corners that everyone who wanted to attend the round should have booked in immediately to help with possible larger venues and so forth. I guess we're all guilty of this to an extent, people are working, there's a family situation etc. but it's always been the case with r/c racing of all classes across the board and will never change. Perhaps it needs to change...........

It's very easy to merely state "Attend the AGM and change things" and I do agree it is the best theatre to put suggestions forward but as the last AGM proved people want things to change but are not prepared to attend the AGM.

This doesn't mean they don't care, it could mean as Jamie suggested that they feel that their opinion is worthless, or even worse; they have tried their best to transform it in the past but it's fallen on deaf ears for years so they don't bother anymore. I hope this is not the case.

One thing is painfully obvious, the AGM right or wrong is not working and hasn't worked for a while; because the WRCA has plenty of members who have plenty to say @ club meetings and yet will not attend the meeting for one reason or another.

One suggestion I have is to maybe have a WRCA rep @ each club and for those reps to have regular e-mail, face-to face and telephone conversations to discuss members issues and suggestions to make sure the region improves week by week rather than one meeting annually.

It's clear that people are more prepared to voice their opinions @ their clubs and will get people talking constructively without 'ranting' on forums. This will create an important link between the clubs and WRCA committee that at the moment seem to be slightly alienated from eachother.

Anyway rant over, shout me down if you wish. Just my thoughts.

Apologies for going slightly off-topic, this is the last you will hear from me on the subject.

[dick don]

Sees like your views on having a debate on Wrca changes online are falling on deaf ears boys, it get my vote as said above as no one attends Wrca Agm's but if they the Wrca committee don't listen and change for the better then it stays stagnent and will fail. More people use the internet so it should be incorparated, the reason I don't attend these meetings is there always too far away and yes i know one was in swansea, to late you lost my input years ago.
Great reading though.

[brian s]

i used to go to the wrca agm`s 20 years ago and they were never well attended then, so it would seem sadly very little has changed.
i like many others have been reading all the comments on the forum.
a possible solution may be:-
as the booking for race meetings is done through the wrca website ,then maybe there could be a similar set up to the nationals,where you book in for the series rather than one meeting. this could give participating clubs a better idea of likely numbers attending their race meeting and allow suitable venues to be found.

[jaysllim]

Both sound like gd ideas more liking the wrca reps at the clubs to act as a middle man

[hywel]

The idea of a club rep is a good one maybe a few people would like to put their names forward and we can go from there they can be a direct conduit back to the clubs from the wrca commitee

Despite what some people might think ,the wrca has changed and brought in a few things rather than stay static.

The introduction of Pts in response to the number of rally x drivers we had (3 years before the 1/10 elec section )

when electric racing went into a decline at regional level we in braced the rally x fratenity and were probably

the first to hold regional events for them

we now have a good website with various sections such as
central booking for race series

the ooople chat room {god help us}

the seperation of nitro and electric events

so changes have been made and people listened to

i try to stay in regular cotact with the clubs, attendi meeting when i can and listen to what people tell me however if i or the committee arnt told of any suggested changes or problems you may have then theres not a lot we can do about it
so next time you go sounding of about thinks ask your self did i speak to the right people or am i acting like an internet warrior and hiding behind m key board?

we need to stop all this backbiting and get some harmony back in our lifes at the end of the day its still toy car racing Lol