CAT SX - First photos

[jimmy]

Schumacher today showed the first photos of their new 1/10th scale 4WD electric buggy, the SX. The car is a high spec mix of carbon fibre and machined alloy and will be available in two versions on release.

http://www.oople.com/forums/../rc/photos/misc/news/catsx.jpg


One car designed around an optimal NiMh 4+2 cell layout - and the other around a stick LiPo battery, so the customer can choose which car will suit their needs the best. It should also mean racers can switch over some chassis components at a later date if they move from NiMh to LiPo racing rules.



Check out the full story on the Schumacher website here: http://www.racing-cars.com/main.asp?sitepages=cat_sx

[jimmy]

http://www.racing-cars.com/images/cat_body_side_1000_n.jpg

http://www.racing-cars.com/images/cat_body_rtq_1000_n.jpg
http://www.racing-cars.com/images/cat_body_ltq_high_1000_n.jpg
http://www.racing-cars.com/images/cat_body_ltq_low_1000_n.jpg

[Jonathan]

Nice.
ill be the first to say it...

Show me under the body !!! :D

[jimmy]

you'd think they might put new tyres on? lol

Looks great - not sure about the mix of purple and black anodising but it's a proto so who knows what it'll be like. The shock towers look like they'll take some abuse.

[Pete@BMM]

Thats quick Jimmy!

You must have posted the second you had the mail!
I was just coming to pop the link up!

Pete

[trekkerkk]

cheers jimmy looks awsome,

trekkker

[ryan]

That looks cool, cant wait to see under the body:thumbsup:
The rear end looks quite similar to the yokomo Bx.

[sparrow.2]

The bits look brilliant and the two versions sond like a good idea but who stepped on the bodyshell :woot:

[jimmy]

DaHomie spotted it on the homepage just before they sent the email out! - so thanks to him :thumbsup:

[Scouser]

From a purely aesthetic point of view, that is the coolest car on the market right now IMO! Awesome work Schumacher!

[ashleyb4]

Looks cool not sur eof the bodyshell.

A

[jimmy]

I'm sure some will have a different view, but it's nice to see they didn't compromise the design to include LiPo but instead offer a lipo-specific car as well.

[delanobe]

Is there already a price indication?

[losixxx]

[quote=jimmy;103542]you'd think they might put new tyres on? lol

quote]


they are new jimmy, just showing how bad the old mould is!!:woot:

same here ash think the bodyshell is a bit fugly, maybe its just the paint job??

[Cruise]

I told you it`s gonna be awesome :drool: now get yourself a pack of Kleenex next to your monitor before you get to see the drivetrain.
:thumbsup:
Cruise

[jimmy]

I wonder if there's a reason the front of the cockpit is so high and then slopes down? Maybe some gears are placed quite high up so need the clearance? Just a guess

[Richard Lowe]

Did someone cut the shell out wrong at the bottom?! :confused:

[Mossy]

The body shell is designed to only fit part way down the undertray.

[ianplimmer]

aaaghhh check the wing mounts :(

[Inside Line]

The body shell is designed to only fit part way down the undertray.Why?:confused:

[Kecky]

That would sit very nicely alongside my Mi3 :thumbsup:

I like the Lipo idea, but it will be interesting to see what the differences are when the shell comes off next week, between that and the 4 & 2 configuration.

[blitzboy]

mmmmmmmmmmm looks nice loads of ally too shoch towers half ally half carbon fibre ,,, nice like the idea of 2 styles odf chassis too can t wait to see the inside mmm rear end looks like half an m i 3 set up ,,,, one word titanium ,,,, has it got any :o

[Richard Lowe]

The body shell is designed to only fit part way down the undertray.
Just looks a bit crazy like that :p

Is there a step in the undertray so the chassis is narrower than the shell?

[Mossy]

Just looks a bit crazy like that :p

Is there a step in the undertray so the chassis is narrower than the shell?

No comment :)

[Kecky]

I can see this having more hop-ups available than any other buggy, if the Mi3 is anything to go by :o

[Richard Lowe]

No comment :)
Thats a yes then :lol:

[Danny McGee]

Im sorry but it looks horrible. Tho im sure it will be ok once it comes out for real. Well i hope it does anyway!

What about a decent shell, new tyres and a proper wing (what the hell is that thing) on the back at the moment..........

[Alfonzo]

I think that looks amazing! I really like the look. Fantastic! :woot::thumbsup:

[Mossy]

All being well the car will be making its public debut at Stotfold on Sunday.

[delanobe]

I’m intrigued and that’s not good for my wallet! :wub

[vader]

I told you it`s gonna be awesome :drool: now get yourself a pack of Kleenex next to your monitor before you get to see the drivetrain.
:thumbsup:
Cruise

Will I be sick when I see that to :confused:

[jimmy]

come to batley instead Si, so I can get some pics :thumbsup:

is that your shell btw, or indeed, your car but with a different shell?

[Mossy]

I already have my own shell. Bately dont have a national so bit far to travel. Need the track time down there as never raced there last year.

[Cruise]

Will I be sick when I see that to :confused:

No but you will probably have to wipe something away.

[Alfonzo]

I’m intrigued and that’s not good for my wallet! :wub

Ha Ha! I think some of us on here know just what you mean :woot:

[bigred5765]

i think it looks freaking aw some
well done Schumacher

[Jean-Christophe]

...maybe you should go to Stotfold, Jimmy ;-)

[jimmy]

haha it's an idea int it. Not sure I've got a car ready for this weekend tho :o - imagine my disapointment when the SX doesn't turn up too!

[Wonderflupke]

This buggy is probably the most ugly of all the buggy I ever seen!!! :thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown:

[jimmy]

the cockpit area / roof line is certainly a bit chubby - if it doesn't change then maybe some different window lines will help it. End of the day though the car itself looks great, shell or no shell.

[Jean-Christophe]

...You can anyway practice for the nationals at least Jimmy ;-)

I did not clearly understand in Mossy's post how certain was CATSX ready for Sunday...but my english is for sure too bad !! :-(

To my mind the car looks really great....waiting for more pics...and for my kit to arrive at home once available :-)

[Belsten]

I like it, just would like to see more of it ! Do we really have to wait till next week :)

[Swiss]

Looks superb... :)

[mw02veg]

that is the mutts nuts :woot: would mind one of them babys for this year :drool:

[sparrow.2]

I told you it`s gonna be awesome :drool: now get yourself a pack of Kleenex next to your monitor before you get to see the drivetrain.
:thumbsup:
Cruise


Hey longnose :-)

Are you going to have one for Köngen already? I managed to get in for 2WD and am first nachrücker for 4WD.

Funny the paint job would be the German flag :woot: Wonder if that has anything to say :eh?:

[MattW]

Looks like it's the mixed views that i think most of us were expecting. I have to admit, i like the shell, i said that when i first saw it - and that was with the paint job that isn't quite as nice as this one!! (only a few people will know what that means!!)

[Cruise]

Hey longnose :-)

Are you going to have one for Köngen already? I managed to get in for 2WD and am first nachrücker for 4WD.

Funny the paint job would be the German flag :woot: Wonder if that has anything to say :eh?:

Es ist beiderseitiges Interesse vorhanden .Alles weitere ist Spekulation.
Für Köngen wirds aber wahrscheinlich schon von Schumacherseite nicht reichen.

Cruise

[GRIFF55]

looks good, now lets see inside!:thumbsup:

[erkan]

very bulky looking wingmounts.. :(

[nitrokillah]

Like the saying goes.

' Don't Judge a book by its cover '

...

those rear "CVDs" sure look different .

I say patience guys .
wait till you see it w/o the body.

[dancoog]

interesting it looks like there might be a molded chassis under that undertray the way the step is contoured. is it my imagination or can you see some stuff where the body and undertray meet at the front.. could just be a trick of the light.:confused:

[Lee]

Is it me or do the shocks look very short, especially the fronts, it might just be the colours breaking it up and playing tricks on my eyes.

I quite like the shell though, the wing looks odd, but the car looks cool, bit fat though:lol:

[DCM]

I dunno what to say, I am neither whooooa, and I am not ewwww, I will admit that the shell is out of proportion and nothing a good paint job can't compensate for. But really, I don't see ANY problems why they couldn't take a naked pic or two either, to show layout and component positions though.

At least there are pics though.... hope they aren't using the same people that make the Mi3 driveshafts to make the SX driveshafts though!

[HVAC25000]

Reminds me of a Tamiya, especially with the ugliest body I've ever seen. I hope to god that the body doesn't have to be that shape to clear gears or whatever, that way a new body can be made that doesn't look like a reject from Tyco (did you guys have Tyco over there?) in the 80s.


The car itself sure looks indestructible. Everything's incredibly thick. Shock towers, shock mounts, arms look thicker than normal to me, wing mounts, etc.


What is with the wing mounts? Are they just designed to be super adjustable and super strong?

[Kecky]

Don't know if this has been posted elsewhere but i've just got this off the MK-Racing web site:


The limited information on the spec that we have been given by Schumacher is as follows:
4wd transmission using 3 belts
Changable internal drive ratio's of 2.2:1 / 2.4:1 / 2.6:1
Motor rotates it the same direction as the wheels
Clamp type motor mount
Narrow chassis (approx 100mm wide) with 4/2 saddle pack slots
Carbon fibre chassis & towers
Alloy transmission cases Rev-lite wheels & Schumacher tyres




Lee, from the front the shocks do appear fairly short, but one of the other pics from the rear, makes them look a more normal length. We'll have to wait and see.....

[sparrow.2]

What is with the wing mounts? Are they just designed to be super adjustable and super strong?

No, they were designed in the eighties when the plastics were made of cheese. Seriously, those wing mounts have been on every Schumacher offroad car since the very first cat!

Why don't they bring back crashback front ends :confused:

[surfking]

Man, thats ugly , shaw it may change but right now thats ugly,well to me it is.

[HVAC25000]

No, they were designed in the eighties when the plastics were made of cheese. Seriously, those wing mounts have been on every Schumacher offroad car since the very first cat!

Why don't they bring back crashback front ends :confused:

mmmmmm.... cheeeeeese..... can't wait to taste them:thumbsup:


what's a crashback front end?

[Body Paint]

No, they were designed in the eighties when the plastics were made of cheese. Seriously, those wing mounts have been on every Schumacher offroad car since the very first cat!

Why don't they bring back crashback front ends :confused:

I don't think that is strictly true now is it. First fitted to the Topcat and Procat. The CAT had pianno wire :eh?::lol:

[sparrow.2]

I don't think that is strictly true now is it. First fitted to the Topcat and Procat. The CAT had pianno wire :eh?::lol:

Ooops :) My bad

The crachback front end had the A-arms and shock attached to the car over a hinge and were kept together with rubber bands. Brilliant system. You could smack it into things and your car would just bend back into shape...

[JohnM]

This buggy is probably the most ugly of all the buggy I ever seen!!! :thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown:

Who cares what it looks like, as long as its fast, a car that wins is always good looking:thumbsup:

Must say that its the first thing to make me think twice about buying the Serpent when it comes out:drool:

[telboy]

Hmm thats a lovely looking paint job!:thumbsup: Wonder who did that for them?;)

I've got a mixed view of it really. Not seen one in the flesh, but it seems to have carried some bits over from the Mi3. I see they've kept the 'shim' set up from the TC. I think the wing will just get replaced when people buy the car.
Not sure on the shock mounts, they look a bit TC'ish too. But I suppose that they may be more resilient, the smaller they are?

The shell does look a little strange, but then if it goes well then who cares.

Looking forward to seeing the insides to see how its all laid out.

[elvo]

Did they photoshop away the reflections of the bottom of the chassis?

It's certainly up to Schumachers standards of non-conformity. There are certainties in life.

[Alfonzo]

Well it's interesting to hear everyone's different opinions on the look, and just to prove the old saying that beauty is in the eye of the beholder - I think it looks awesome!

[Fabs]

Bring back the Cat 2000 shell !!!!!

On a serious note, what is Phil Booth on ? I'd like to meet his dealer...

[telboy]

Did they photoshop away the reflections of the bottom of the chassis?

You mean through the windows?
If so, no. They wanted it painting with limmo windows to keep the peering eyes out!!:D

They have another though with clear windows.:thumbsup: Not sure when they'll use it though.

[johnboy]

will the car be at worksop on the 23rd

[Richard Lowe]

All being well the car will be making its public debut at Stotfold on Sunday.
Are you running it at the last Worksop round Si or are you playing with noisy cars at the Neo?

[MattW]

They have another though with clear windows.:thumbsup: Not sure when they'll use it though.


It's been used......:thumbsup::D

[Robbiejuk]

Is that the servo sticking out of the side of the car there? at the front, actually it looks like one of my core Lipo's ?
I guess now the piccies are out that I can say I saw a video of this car going round Eastrax and it looked awesome over the jumps. :thumbsup:http://www.racing-cars.com/images/cat_body_side_1000_n.jpg

[stegger]

It looks more like the servo as the corerc Lipo is more rounded unless you meen the 5000 Lipo:confused: were can we see this video rob???

[Robbiejuk]

My 5000 lipo is definatly square, Video won't be on the internet I was shown it :) And thats all I am going to say.

[rcracer]

The shell looks very "FG Marder" to me.... cant wait to see what it looks like on the inside.

[frogger]

I LOVE the look of that buggy. Might just have to buy one :woot:

[Chris Doughty]

Congrats to the design team for not being tempted to produce a clone.

I like new stuff.

I like some of the features on it, some I don't like. but as someone said before, if it is fast, people will start to like it more, I thinking Subaru Impreza, the bug eye one, looked ugly in the showroom, but when it was in its rally dress hooning around rally stages it look ace!

[jimmy]

One of the Schumacher managers in the USA was slagging it off on rctech.net but it seems to have been removed now.

[jimmy]

Any updates on whether It'll be at Stotfold?

[Northy]

One of the Schumacher managers in the USA was slagging it off on rctech.net but it seems to have been removed now.

But it's ok, because Jimmy quoted him - oh you bitch! :lol::lol:

G

[jimmy]

I merely 'called him out' on what he'd said since I thought he was slightly in the wrong. :lol:

[bigred5765]

very wrong
if he works for them
but i guess its a forum and were all entitled to are opinions

[Chris Doughty]

very wrong if he works for them, or their distributor (should have talked to them behind closed doors)

but he does have a point, it would have looked way better with a proper rear wing (like what EVERYBODY races with) and some NEW schumacher Mini-Pin tires, small pins look way better than mini-spikes. it would have also been appealing to have pictures of it with some Holeshots (or taper-pins - or any american tire) on it too, it would have hit the US market much better too.

so so so often do the guys on US forums comment on our '80's spike tires, they just don't understand what tracks we race on. :confused:

[bigred5765]

yeah i think they should have given jimmy the chance to do publicity shots
I'm sure he would have made a way better job of it than them
go offer em your services jimmy
ps remember it was my idea

[Northy]

Mmmmmmm, wing orings :(

Shall I see if I can get some 'whities' to replace them? :confused:

G

[bigred5765]

pinkies.

[jimmy]

He had his own agenda fair enough - he wanted the car to be lipo-only and slagged off the 4+2 layout / option. It was when he said schuey UK needed more marketing training that I replied to him. What sort of marketing is slating your own product/company? :lol:
I agree with what you said about the presentation chris, in the UK we're used to seeing american cars setup for american tracks. But Americans seeing these tyres might assume wrongly it's a UK-only grass car - you know how these things get out of control! haha

Like you say, do it behind closed doors.

I guess lipo is 'taking over' in the USA, but over here it makes sense to have the best no-compromises car possible. At least Schumacher have both options available to make everyone happy.
I'd like to know if the 4+2 / LiPo car have a very different layout inside? maybe with the motor moving fore/aft ?

[jimmy]

yeah i think they should have given jimmy the chance to do publicity shots
I'm sure he would have made a way better job of it than them
go offer em your services jimmy
ps remember it was my idea

You aren't wrong Carl, I think I'm going to take you on as my manager :lol:

[Chris Doughty]

I thought the comments you quoted were refering to the old tires on the car and tiny rear wing.

[bigred5765]

no matter what his thoughts,there really not made for public airing,
especially has he works for them in the states,
he has a right to a view
but as chris said behind closed doors

[jimmy]

I didn't see that - but those are fair enough points. If it was up to me I'd have released them with american flags and eagles all over it - That'd sell it! :lol:

[bigred5765]

see
schumacher i told ya jimmy should have done your press release
kabam

[Cruise]

I'd like to know if the 4+2 / LiPo car have a very different layout inside? maybe with the motor moving fore/aft ?

Only servo ,speedo and receiver have to move.

Cruise.

[Northy]

Only servo ,speedo and receiver have to move.

:o:o:o

:lol::lol::lol:

[bigred5765]

but at least it a option

[James]

They're pretty similar chassis really...
I was told it would come with a big/proper rear wing... ??
Thats not a servo poking out...
I'm off for my lunch now...

[MattW]

The wing has definetly been mentioned to the right people.

[ApexSpeed]

The U.S. Shuey guys were pretty upset that not only were the photos released before everyone had expected to see them, but they weren't even notified in the U.S. of the pending product release. They had no information on their end. How are they supposed to answer questions for their customers when they don't get the basic information they need? They find out about the car when we do (or after, in this case), and in my opinion, that's no way for an international arm of any company to function.

As far as I know, they are also a bit disappointed that the photos were released so far before the official product release date of the car (not less than 30 days out). Watching Team Losi and Tekin break release date after release date and you can see how negative results can arise from poor planning and eager marketing. Tekin brushless motors and speed controllers are virtual ghosts in a brushless landscape here.

I don't think they care about the used tires and the funky wing, but they seem to not know as much about their own new product as websites like oOple.com and redrc.net. I can see how they would be more than a little frustrated. It might get the better of all of us to see other people broadcasting information on their own products that they don't even know about yet.




As for the car, I really like it so far. Lipos will be the norm here, regardless of the European addiction to low-tech NiMh cells, and this will be the first 4wd car that is designed around a LiPo stick pack. ;) I would think that the LiPo version sells just as well, if not better than, the 2x4 version here in the U.S.




I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin' is all. ;) I don't know nuthin' 'bout nuthin'. :woot:

[Alfonzo]

Just goes to show there's always two sides to a story.

Yeah - what the hell is our (european) deal with NiMh?:confused:, Bring forth thy Lipo :thumbsup:

[mark christopher]

He had his own agenda fair enough - he wanted the car to be lipo-only and slagged off the 4+2 layout / option. It was when he said schuey UK needed more marketing training that I replied to him. What sort of marketing is slating your own product/company? :lol:
I agree with what you said about the presentation chris, in the UK we're used to seeing american cars setup for american tracks. But Americans seeing these tyres might assume wrongly it's a UK-only grass car - you know how these things get out of control! haha

Like you say, do it behind closed doors.

I guess lipo is 'taking over' in the USA, but over here it makes sense to have the best no-compromises car possible. At least Schumacher have both options available to make everyone happy.
I'd like to know if the 4+2 / LiPo car have a very different layout inside? maybe with the motor moving fore/aft ?
was told the lipo car will be stick format with radio gear moved to suit

[HVAC25000]

Do we know if there is any chance of sealing the drivetrain by any means? Here in the u.s. we have a thing called dirt just FILLED with little things called rocks and pebbles that make it impossible to run a belt driven car that doesn't have a sealed drivetrain. There's a reason no one in the u.s., at elast west coast, buys yoks or 501xs unless they run on a clay track... clay tracks aren't the norm on the west coast, and certainly aren't the norm in southern california where I live...

[Adam Bailey]

Being that there's been enough said about what I've posted on other sites I figured I could help clarify a few things on here...

Last week, approximately 20 minutes before Schumacher UK released pics of the new Cat I was asked on RC Tech for pics of the new 4WD, which I of course said no because we will not release pics of the buggy until we have a release date and we are 30 days from that date. This was said because between Schumacher UK and US, we had a marketing agreement that we were going to keep the pics and "spy shots" to zero before release.

Like I said about 20 minutes later myself and the office manager received an email with a link to the UK side of the site showing us pics of the buggy for the first time. Neither one of us had seen any pics up until that point.

There we are taking "pre-orders" in the US for the car, There is no specific release date, and we do not have accurate pricing as of yet, I'll be relasing that as we come closer to the release.

The K079 "LiPo version" is going to be focused on in the states, but the K078 4x2 can be ordered as well:)

Any and all questions should be directed to myself, Shawn Palmer, or the UK.

[DCM]

I don't understand the need for so much secrecy though.... one people know the car is coming out, at least give em something to wow/moan about!

[HVAC25000]

There we are taking "pre-orders" in the US for a car without a release date, or even a remote clue on pricing, and to top that off, we haven't even seen pictures of the inside of the car, and that car will have zero track time in the US before its release.

Then tell them release pictures of the inside of the car. Explain to them they're going about it all wrong. Adam, this forum makes it clear they should have been releasing information immediately, and so does R/C Tech. It's akin to customer service. Make the customer happy. The customers WANT to see the car even if it's a prototype. Don't keep the customer in the dark, don't make the customer feel like they aren't worthy, don't make the customer feel like the car doesn't even exist, don't make the customer go buy another car because they don't know anything about the CAT... There isn't a single person in the world outside of Schumacher that believes it's a good idea to keep the car a secret, and the threads on here prove it, as well as the one on R/C Tech. EVERYONE wants info and pictures, they don't care if the car is ugly...

I have no clue what kind of marketing knowledge Schumacher has, but it goes against everything the rest of the world knows... Even giant car companies, real car companies, dealing with billions of dollars in cars and probably an equal amount in marketing research, release pictures of their prototypes. Concept cars. It builds up hype for the actual car. It works, otherwise they wouldn't do it. It's a simple concept and the threads on these forums have proven it over and over. The Aero is the best example... They were letting that thing be seen by the public months ago and everyone wanted one then, no one said "Eww it's aluminum and dirty, I don't want one." Everyone said "Oooh, great design, it's already winning races and it's not even finished yet! I want one!" I still want one, just based on the fact that the aluminum clunky prototype was winning races ages ago. I just can't afford one.

The biggest mistake Schumacher's ever made was not having the proto on an American dirt track right away. I'm a huge Schumacher fan, but right now, I think the car will be useless on an American track and I'm tempted to get a Serpent instead because I believe it will hold up better on a rough track... NOTHING has been done to prove the car will be able to handle the dirt tracks I run on.

When the CAT and the S500 are released, and the S500 has already been winning races and proven to be a good car, and the CAT is still untested, people will buy an S500. Even worse scenario, when the S500 is released, and Schumacher hasn't even released pictures of the inside of the CAT, people will give up and get an S500 because they still won't even know what's inside the CAT. Of course there are those that are absolutely loyal to Schumacher and will buy one without ever having seen it, but there will be a LOT more people who are on the fence, who have no loyalties to Schumacher or any other car company, and will just go with whichever car seems the best, whichever car they know the most about. People need to know about the CAT NOW.

Frankly it makes my head hurt to think that Schumacher doesn't understand these concepts........

Now, don't get me wrong,I'm in no way bashing Schumacher, I love my Mi-3, I love how helpful everyone at Schumacher USA is, and how helpful all your team drivers are. I'm saying all this because, frankly, I'm worried that this car is going to bomb in sales and lose a lot of money because of the poor decisions Schumacher is making in building up hype for the car, building a reputation for the car, and teaching people about the car...

[spenner]

Not defending Schumacher or anything but why compare it to the S500 ???

Which hasn't won anything yet..... if you look at the last meeting Jorn Neumann won he was running the Durango!!

If there wasn't such things as www. would we all be going on about these pictures ??? just a thought...

[Adam Bailey]

Agreed, I begged and pleaded to get the proto over here and its doubtful that it will see US soil before the release.

Robin is supposed to bring it over here in April, but he said its doubtful.


The biggest mistake Schumacher's ever made was not having the proto on an American dirt track right away. I'm a huge Schumacher fan, but right now, I think the car will be useless on an American track and I'm tempted to get a Serpent instead because I believe it will hold up better on a rough track... NOTHING has been done to prove the car will be able to handle the dirt tracks I run on.



As for marketing backgrounds, I cant speak for the UK, but Shawn's and mine is pretty extensive. But you have to remember this industry has a very short attention span and does not hold on to long to anything. It does not work like the consumer vehicle market that HAS to release pics and prototypes years in advance. If we release pics of a car we better have a car within 30-45 days or there is a backlash from the public that the company cannot deliver, and its delay after delay and all of a sudden by day 50, I've lost half of my back orders and nobody likes Schumacher at all. I've seen this with other companies products many times.

As for more pics, I cant say what the UK will do, but Releasing more pics of a car that has no release date seems a bit absurd to me, there's to many parts of the car, that are already changing, and could change in the future.

[Cruise]

There is no reason why this car won`t work on US style tracks.
If you look close you will find that the suspension just follows common sense.

And the drivetrain will do the rest espacially in the air.

Cruise

[Adam Bailey]

I'm really thinking the same thing, but we'll see once it hits the blue groove in April **I hope**

There is no reason why this car won`t work on US style tracks.
If you look close you will find that the suspension just follows common sense.

And the drivetrain will do the rest espacially in the air.

Cruise

[MattW]

The Serpant comparrison is inevitable i guess, due to the launch's being fairly close. However, as Spenner says it is actually funny - because so far as far as we can all see, their drivers are essentially running Durango chassis rather than S500. Clearly no-one knows why this is, but my guess is that S500 is further away from being ready that some people would like/hope.

As and when you time your releasing of info, it is very very difficult to get it right - and the bottom line is you will never please everyone. If you anounce it too early, you lose interest. If you leave it too late people make other plans. If you release pictures too early, there is a chance someone could copy your ideas before you actually get things to launch - depending on how far away you are. What do you do for the best? no idea, which is why i'm in engineering rather than marketing :eh?:

[DCM]

but now they have released body shots, why not go the whole hog, appease the drooling throng and release the XXX porno pics of it naked on the bench. I don't think, now, it would do them no harm at all.

Just seems that Schumacher and their American distributors are not singing from the same sheet..... pull it together chaps.

[Adam Bailey]

It does seem like that because that is the case, were working to change that.

I think now that the body shots are out they might as well release the full pics.
but now they have released body shots, why not go the whole hog, appease the drooling throng and release the XXX porno pics of it naked on the bench. I don't think, now, it would do them no harm at all.

Just seems that Schumacher and their American distributors are not singing from the same sheet..... pull it together chaps.

[minichamps11]

[quote=HVAC25000;104985] don't make the customer go buy another car because they don't know anything about the CAT... There isn't a single person in the world outside of Schumacher that believes it's a good idea to keep the car a secret, and the threads on here prove it, as well as the one on R/C Tech. EVERYONE wants info and pictures, they don't care if the car is ugly...

.. Even giant car companies, real car companies, dealing with billions of dollars in cars and probably an equal amount in marketing research, release pictures of their prototypes. Concept cars. It builds up hype for the actual car. It works, otherwise they wouldn't do it.



When I read this post I got an image in my head of a child jumping up and down in frustration because they can't open their Christmas presents early on Xmas eve.....

First point - of course everyone wants to see prototype pictures of a car that's not out yet. Just because those people may be potential customers doesn't mean it's right for Schumacher to give in! For instance, if the spec/materials & design are still changing, it's not a good idea to release photos showing, say an alloy chassis, and then when it's released the customer sees it's been changed to nasty looking plastic and feels short-changed or conned somehow.

Secondly, full size car manufacturers are very careful how/when and what they let you see. Many so called "spy-shots" of full size cars are actually released on purpose by manufacturers to keep up interest in future product, for instance if VW have a new Golf/Rabbit out in 2 months and Ford was face lifting the Focus in 8 months time, they might leak a spy shot to keep up customer interest in their car. Even then, they are very careful to keep the interior & specification under wraps to keep people wanting more - exactly as Schumacher are doing. Delivering everything in one go leaves no surprises, and as already said, consumers have a short attention span. I'm sorry, but your post does make you sound a little impatient - I won't be buying any new car just because I've seen (or haven't seen) photos of the inside layout. I'll wait until I've seen team drivers or fellow racers use them, and then make a decision based on cost, spares availability and race performance.

I'm sure the SX will be worth the wait.

[Nick Goodall]

The car grows on me more and more, i think it'll be worth waiting to see some under body pics - i hear they will be out soon.......

I think people should just be grateful that after a good few years Schumacher have come back into Off Road with a new design that a LOT of people have been demanding for years now - the Cat 3000 was still really an Evolution of the Cat 2000 as most of the suspension components and other bits and pieces were from the older cars but at least this one looks completely fresh!

I hope it works for them, at least people are certainly excited by it and talking about it :-)

[markwilliamson2001]

You gonna be up for a drive then with them again Nick?? Car looks good, apart from the shell design...IMO.

[Andy Moore]

I'm really thinking the same thing, but we'll see once it hits the blue groove in April **I hope**

So you guys will be coming out for some Florida offroad racing? The Regionals are in April at the Coral Springs track.

[Adam Bailey]

I'll be here and RC Tech as I have more info to give out, especially US track testing if we get the prototype.

The tires are a question that continues to come up, and if the kits come with tires which is a decision that has not been made yet, the US kits will more than likely have mini pins of some capacity.

The body is also something that continually comes up, I'm sure there will be more bodies that fit than just the stock one? I doubt they'll change the design, but we'll see what happens

[Adam Bailey]

Provided Robin brings the car with him, yes:woot:

So you guys will be coming out and doing some Florida racing? The Regionals are in April at the Coral Springs track.

[Andy Moore]

Provided Robin brings the car with him, yes:woot:

Sweet! About time Florida got a chance to see a new car, instead of all the Cali guys.

[jimmy]

There ya go Andy, tell Jason to 'nip round' and get some measurements for a SX 'illuzion' shell :)

I feel like a matchmaker.

[Adam Bailey]

That doesn't mean I'm gonna let you see it:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Heck man, i don't even know if Robin is gonna bring it with him??

Now if there is an Illuzions body in the works we can talk!!

[Andy Moore]

There ya go Andy, tell Jason to 'nip round' and get some measurements for a SX 'illuzion' shell :)

I feel like a matchmaker.

You never know. PW did work at Schumacher for a bit.

That doesn't mean I'm gonna let you see it:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Heck man, i don't even know if Robin is gonna bring it with him??

Now if there is an Illuzions body in the works we can talk!!

Thats true, but you can always bring it out, swear us to silence and not allow photos, haha.

[Adam Bailey]

hmm, maybe we can work something out lol

[Nick Goodall]

There ya go Andy, tell Jason to 'nip round' and get some measurements for a SX 'illuzion' shell :)

I feel like a matchmaker.

Now that is a genius idea - i can only imagine how good it would look then :thumbsup:

Haha i'm not sure Mark, i've been out of touch for some time now - i still hope to do Nats next year (2009) after my wedding and everything has been and gone but that's a bit of a not sure really as the wife to be isn't to keen on the racing but hey, what can she do! Divorce me? Ooh yeah.... she could actually lol Anyway, we'll see what happens this year but i'm pleased to see all these manufacturers getting new cars out, it can only be good for 10th off road - just a shame some of the top guys are reverting to 8th permenantly :thumbdown:

[Andy Moore]

hmm, maybe we can work something out lol

Woo hoo!

[Jean-Christophe]

Hi

was written on Schumacher website that they hope to release body off pics that week.

Come on Mossy, Matthew or Ralf, any comment??

JC

[trekkerkk]

http://www.racing-cars.com/main.asp?sitepages=cat_sx2

i think this is what youve been waiting for:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

trekkker

[super__dan]

Holy crap, can't even decide in my own mind whether i like it or not.

[telboy]

Hmm, Strange layout.

Looks like it could be a pain in the arse to work on (diff/gearbox wise).

Not sure about it really, maybe it will grow on me.:eh?:

[dancoog]

It looks like some mad scientist's version of a RC car.
wow is the only thing I can say.

I can't decide either if it looks cool creative or just plain strange.

[Adam Bailey]

I think creative is the way to go, we were impressed in the states:thumbsup:

the "adjustable" internal ratio is probably the best thing I've heard from any car company out there, now cars are being built to "user specs" whereas my buddy who runs brushed will have the best ratio option, and myself who runs brushless can have the best option for easier ratios:drool:

[super__dan]

Actually in general I do like it.

2 initial comments though, you have to run the aerial down the length of the car??? And notice the speedo changes to an LRP for the nimh shots, does their speedo passion one not fit?

Fairly minor things though

[ryan]

First impressions i think it looks quite good, it looks as alot of thought has gone in to it for the right reasons, not just producing another ordinary 4wd car.
It looks quite robust with all the alliminuim pieces, i think it will definetly be one to look out for this year!

Will have to wait and see it go around the track before i judge it completely.
:thumbsup:

[Adam Bailey]

hmm, I had not noticed the aerial until I looked twice????

Depending on if your running DSM or not with a shorter wire could be an issue??


Actually in general I do like it.

2 initial comments though, you have to run the aerial down the length of the car??? And notice the speedo changes to an LRP for the nimh shots, does their speedo passion one not fit?

Fairly minor things though

[niggs98]

nice find m8, i like that a lot, nice to see another belt drive

[Nick Goodall]

Certainly different - i can't see anything wrong with it and if you read the spec below it all sounds pretty good - they've put a lot of thought into it which is great to see :thumbsup:

[Cruise]

Looks like it could be a pain in the arse to work on (diff/gearbox wise).


As I mentioned before only 4 screws to get a diff out.

I hope everything I teased you with makes sense now.

Cruise

[muzzy]

Dan,
Speed Passion GT speedo DOES fit in the car, so no worries there.
Mark

[super__dan]

Dan,
Speed Passion GT speedo DOES fit in the car, so no worries there.
Mark

when you're as bored as I am at home these days you become a synic and start looking for things to entertain you. I can't wait to get out of the house again on sunday! ;)

[jimmy]

looks good to me, I guess there's not quite as much of a pressing urgency for me to dash over from the neo race to get some exclusive spy shots now tho! :p

[MattW]

Diffs do come out very easily - at least the rear one did when we had to do a quick rebuild last time i tested (the only rebuild that diff had had through all it's running - a lot!!)

[Lee]

Not pretty is it:confused:

Its not something that im going to rush out and buy just from the pics, i hope it performs for them, its not my cup of tea but each to there own!!:thumbsup:

[OldTimer]

Looks like its gear as well as belt drive at the rear, which is how the motor has been flipped over and still drive forwards :D

[Wraggy]

not sure if i like it? think im with you on this lee :bored:, just looks all very messy in there and all the open gears/pulleys and belts !!!! are you not just asking for trouble ??

[MiniGaz]

anyone else actually noticed the amount of undertray trimming that is needed to fit the lipo in. check the front edge of the tray by the lipo and servo. you may have also noticed that it' looks like 2 different protos, and not just 1 that has been converted.

[RogerM]

I have to praise Schumacher for thinking well outside the box. If people shoot down a company for doing anything out of the ordinary then the sport won't move forward and we'll end up driving the same car ..... just with different logos on (hold on .... aren't we nearly there already???)

Weight distribution looks good, layout probably looks worse than it actually is in those pics ..... I bet it looks much easier to work on with the cells out!!!

Good on Schumacher for being different .... and proving to the world that we are still the most inovative and, well excentric (sp?) country in the world!!!

[Richard Lowe]

I'm still trying to figure out how you are supposed to plug the batteries in on the NiMh car... :confused:

Does the link wire run from the back cell of the 4 on the inside of the car to the front cell of the 2 cells, again toward the middle of the car? If it does do you have to thread the 2 cells under all the topdeck and elastic bands to take them out the left side of the car?!

[DCM]

well, they have done what I thought they would of needed to do to get the motor to rotate the same way as the wheels, but, I dunno, looks like one of Mad Mike Bartons creations from years ago.

Also, for 'production' cars, I hope the two idler gears are not nylon from RW, or at least one is hard coated alloy..... otherwsie be bye bye teeth on a bad run.

Otherwise, hmmmmm

[vader]

I thought meccano went out in the 80's :confused:

[Alfonzo]

Boy, what the hell would you know about the '80's ?? :lol:

I like it. Looks radical, and totally different. And that's a good thing. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[GRIFF55]

Looks good, and different from the norm. Good luck shuey!!

[bert digler]

Looks good, and different from the norm. Good luck shuey!!

what an abortion:thumbdown:

[elvo]

I'm still trying to figure out how you are supposed to plug the batteries in on the NiMh car... :confused:



Very carefully!! :lol:



Well the weight is in the right place, and the motor spins the right way... ... at the cost of some complexity.

Can't see what the motor is mounted to though :confused: Hope there's some sort of 3rd bulkhead down there.


So Schum boys, what's with this variable ratio? Do you switch the white pulleys around?

[stegger]

Really don't like it:thumbdown: to much to go wrong and to clutted, as Mr lowe said it looks to much of a fiddle with the cells. Lipo cell layout looks a lot better though. When you consider the cars from Aero and the forthcoming S500 from serpent they look far more user friendly. But saying all that good on schuie for coming out with something different.

[Cruise]

Can't see what the motor is mounted to though :confused: Hope there's some sort of 3rd bulkhead down there.




Unique clamp motor mount to fine tune weight distribution, and allow motor changes without affecting gear mesh.

That what I was trying to say with: I could explain the reason for the holes but then your brain will explode(the holes in the undertray).

Cruise

[Richard Lowe]

Unique clamp motor mount to fine tune weight distribution, and allow motor changes without affecting gear mesh.

That what I was trying to say with: I could explain the reason for the holes but then your brain will explode(the holes in the undertray).

Cruise
/Is confused :confused:

[telboy]

How can you make a motor change without effecting gear mesh? Surely the pinion comes out with the motor?
To remove the motor I would think that you've got to loosen the cam mount?

[MattW]

yeah, pinion comes out with motor - as in on the end of the shaft. However, motor mount doesn't move, so you can put motor back in, and clamp it down and it will still be meshed.

[Lee]

[quote=stegger;105702]Really don't like it:thumbdown: quote]


Fantastic, first one to say it:lol:

[Lindsay]

I have it on fairly good authority that the CAT will be running at Worksop this Sunday

[DCM]

so you slide the motor mount or you have a rotating mount like on the TC4 stylee..... so you can pull the motor and the mounting position is stable....

i.e. the motor attaches to a plate with fixed holes, then you use the plate to rotate/slide to alter mesh.... oh boy, this car gets more complex by the minute...

[telboy]

Ah, I think I see now Matt.
Any chance of a more closer pickie of it?
I understand what your saying but pics would make it clearer to people.?

:)

[MattW]

The only pics i have are the ones that are posted on the site, so i'm afraid i can't help you with that one. In fact, it's an area that we have had no problems with - certainly when i've tested, so if i'm honest, i can't fully describe it in intimate detail, cos i haven't looked that closely at it!! It's just had an SP 5.5 motor in, and it hasn't ben touched in any way!!

[muzzy]

For people with concerns about the gears, belts etc, don't worry about any of these things as that is the sort or norm that we do lots of testing with, and there won't be any issues with any of this. As for the motor plate as Matt has tried to explain, its a very simple and effective design, just sooo much easier to explain by showing you rather than trying to explain it in words on a forum, so please be patient until you get to see it, then all will make perfect sense :thumbsup:
Also for you guys that don't like it and want something pretty, would you prefer something cute, pink, pretty and slow, or like the new Cat SX, a completely state of the art brand new unique design that is fast!!! Believe me, when you get chance whenever it is to see it go you shall be very pleasantly surprised, this thing is Fassssstttt!!!!!! :p
Mark

[Wraggy]

like the new Cat SX, a completely state of the art brand new unique design that is fast!!! Believe me, when you get chance whenever it is to see it go you shall be very pleasantly surprised, this thing is Fassssstttt!!!!!!
Mark

so the new Pred is fast and this is fast !!!

so what ur saying is that if i put the same motor in another car then it wont be as fast ??? because its the car thats fast :thumbsup:.

:lol::lol::lol: sorry i dont buy it

[MattW]

Well, i will say this much. Last time we tested, we first did one run with my xx4 with a Speed Passion 5.5 motor. Then we did a run with the SX and a similar Speed Passion 5.5 motor - and it isn't printable what i said as i went down the main straight on the first lap with the SX.

I'm not going to claim it is purely car - but i will say that on that day on that track with similar motors, the SX had more straight line speed than my own xx4.

[muzzy]

Well the cars will be similiar speed straight line, yes I agree, but due to the balance design and handling characteristics of this car you shall be fast over the laps I guess I should of put, :thumbsup: Just wait and see!!! Ha Ha Matt I remember those words that we said when it went down that straight, and your right, not really printable on here :lol: was it a blurrrrr or something if I remember :p
Mark

[Welshy40]

Well its definately a new design and great that these guys are back to designing new stuff instead of copying. however it doesnt appeal to me so Tamiya has my order, and thats a shock as I never thought I would ever buy a tamiya.

[muzzy]

Only thing I would say on that Welshy is make sure you will be able to get spares for your Tamiya if your at a track and break it, or if many others at your local club or friends will run that car to assist with parts. I know most UK shops have pre ordered the new Cat SX and spares will be readily available throughout the Uk, and there will also be team drivers present at lots of big meetings for assistance if needed. Just a couple of things to bear in mind.
Mark

[DaveG28]

Hope it is there SUnday, will be really interesting to see it in the flesh.

Kind of surprised if the straight line speed is strong to be honest when compared to other cars with same motors etc, as that looks a hellishly inefficient drivetrain, motor through spur through a gear then 3 different belts!

Not saying it won't work, just I'd have thought it would be less efficient which probably isn't important now we can all run faster motors than we need and plenty of runtime along with it!

One Q, is that LIPOnot really exposed? Say landing the chassis on a ridge of a jump, if its tilted on that side the LIPO will get a direct hit won't it?

[bender]

I have to say that the lipo fit-ment really looks to be an afterthought - it sticks out of the side of the chassis at the front, requiring the undertray to be cut, plus it moves the servo out on the other side, again requiring the undertray to be cut.

This would seem to be counterproductive to keeping the inside of the car clean, which would be very important on dirt tracks with those exposed gears.

Can someone explain how the front layshaft is mounted? It appears to use a single fixing point like the Mi3? Not sure how well this will hold up considering the size of the pulleys an how far away they are from the mounting point.

It does however look very well balanced and the chassis is certainly slim enough.

How do you adjust the slipper, with that 2mm hex head screw I see on the spur gear?

[antnee]

doesn't wow me now but I will have to see it in the flesh and see it go before I make my mind up completely.

also £350!!



mark; were your chips nice?

[bender]

I just noticed that in the feature list it says "internal gear cover" - I hope that refers to the idlers gears, it will be one less thing to worry about on dirt tracks at least.

Anyone else noticed that the car has Fireblade style UJ shafts rather than rebuildable CVD's?

[schmacher]

is the only difference on the lipo chassis the lack of battery slots? couldn't you in theory mount nimh cells in the same position as the lipo and add some battery stoppers so the batteries don't move ? i like it :thumbsup:

[Tim Ward]

re previous comment about the aerial mount - I notice that the aerial is mounted different on the NiMh and LiPo versions in these photos - so guess all you need is a drill!

Personally, regardless of how the transmission looks, I want the car to go well - after all it is from a British company!

Interesting!

2WD next?

[JohnM]

also £350!!


I was only just saying to my wife that £350 isn't really alot of money for a top line car nowadays, yes the B44 is super cheap, but when you build one you can see why, but when I think back to paying £340 for a Pred in 1995, cars are cheaper now in real terms then ever before:thumbsup:

As for the Cat, I like it, its different, so as long as it works, who cares what it looks like, and at least its been designed over here, on our style of tracks, so shouldn't be the compromise that some of the cars from the rest of the world are when they get here, remember the XXX4, works in the States, not so well here, or even the BJ4, won the worlds, makes a great club racer, but hasn't really lit up our National series has it?

[MattW]

I think John is correct - cars are kind of the same price that they always have been. Sure the B44 is cheap.........in more ways than one, but that isn't really the norm.


Please be aware these are prototype shots and some details are subject to change.

.....................there's a message in there somewhere.:lol:

[RogerM]

is the only difference on the lipo chassis the lack of battery slots? couldn't you in theory mount nimh cells in the same position as the lipo and add some battery stoppers so the batteries don't move ? i like it :thumbsup:

Not sure why you'd want to do that as it'll be nowhere near as well balanced as arrangement Scumacher have chosen.

[vinny20]

Dont like to be rude but i dont like the car much i just dont like the layout But i have no idea how it will peform

[super__dan]

I'm looking forward to seeing one, I really like how 'out there' some of it is, but out there because of a purpose and design philosophy that is sound and makes sense. It has to be proved if this is reliable enough but at least Schumacher have it out before the start of the year so I'm sure Si and Matt will have it competive quickly and so by mid season we'll all have to see how quick they can make it.

If £350 is all in and needs no further upgrades then that is about the going rate to kit out a race car. The xx4 is cheaper but even that needs a one way which isn't cheap. The B44 is exceptionally cheap and is bringing 4wd to the masses but I hear some parts are not so good quality, as indeed are some of the B4 bits I put on my new X6 in the week but that's another story.

[delanobe]

A nice review would tell the story :thumbsup:

[SHY]

C'mon guys!

The design is kinda Volvoish / boxy, but the engineering is very clever indeed! I like it when engineers think for themselves, there are way too many factories just copying successful designs!

Mi first thought was: "Ah! Why haven't anyone thought of that before?!" I mean, the driveline has always been "in the way", so why not move it! I'm sure you all know that for track nitro cars the long belts are put out on the side.

Will be interesting to see how it handles!

Schumacher as far as I know have always been known for making winning cars. Complicated and a bit vulnerable perhaps, but still a winner in the right hands. I'm sure it will be fine after SP1!

Open gears is never ideal, but as well as the body is well closed I guess it should be no biggie... Should be possible to make some wafer thin lexan covers also perhaps?

And don't pick on the shell! It's not too bad! And that's always highly subjective! I mean, I know many like the TRF501-X body. Myself I'm just wondering when it will transform into a robot... :lol: I'm qute sure I've seen that car in a Transformers movie!

*applause* :thumbsup:

BTW what's the idea behind the Schuey logo??? (the 3 arrows)

[schmacher]

i just don't like the fact of having to have packs that i can only use in this car and can't use in others...kinda sucks

[Oliv996]

i just don't like the fact of having to have packs that i can only use in this car and can't use in others...kinda sucks

Why don't you switch to X-6 and X-60 :eh?:

[DaveG28]

I wonder whether you could use standard stick/3+3 saddle in the LIPO version if necessary?

The car is an interesting concept, will be good to see how it works out. There's so much variety, the Tamiya (Yok?) style which I'd call "standard belt", B44/BJ4 "standard shaft", then cars like Serpent/Aero/Atomic Carbon which seem to go for ultra narrow (never heard this explained but I assume its aiming for low polar moment of intertia), the pred which goes for ultra aerodynamic (not that I can work out how Aerodynamics make a diference at our speeds in standard air pressure :eh?:), and now the Schumacher which looks (obviously don't know how they approached it) as though it was drivetrain comes first and narrow too, which from these pics makes it look to me like it may have a higher centre of gravity (although I see all the electrics are down low).

I'd be very tempted by the Schu next winter as it allows me to go LIPO racing, but still worried about the LIPO being exposed, and also landing on the shell could destroy the drive train!

[Garry Driffill]

It looks rather neat, i wonder if there will be trouble with that middle big belt with them either rubbing the cells. On my old MI2 the belts wore rather quickly without it not touching anything. I wonder if they will wear fast on this car?

why is the arial mount soo far away ! :wtf:

I must say im looking forward to seing it on the track.

[Garry]

One thing not mentioned, now the motor spins WITH the drivetrain, does that mean it'll be backwards to jump?

i.e apply throttle to lower the nose instead of raising it?

I'm not a buggy driver, never jumped one so I don't know. :thumbsup:

[SHY]

i just don't like the fact of having to have packs that i can only use in this car and can't use in others...kinda sucks

Yeah, re-soldering 1 bar and 1 wire is a HUGE problem :wtf:
(And any config will still fit your B4 or CR 2WD)

[DCM]

to be fair, the high up weight is in the center of the chassis, so has less influence in the cars handling, and with all things, it is a compromise, to get the belt low would also mean moving the cells out, etc, and as the cells are the major weight component in the car, Schumacher have tried to optimise the weight distribution of these, and the motor/electrics.

It isn't by any means an 'elegant' design top offed by a less that pretty shell, but I can understand the concept and appreciate the approach, and innovation is good...... as long as it works. I personaly think the drivetrain is over complicated, and for racing, too many points to fail so it all comes down to how 'strong' Mr Schumacher can make them bits.

p.s. the shocks look aweful, I hope they intend to put a finish on the outside of them shocks to stop em furring with corrosion for starters......

[RogerM]

i just don't like the fact of having to have packs that i can only use in this car and can't use in others...kinda sucks


Should not be a problem!!!!

Most 2wds use either 6 in line so what is the difference between IIIiii & IIIIii in reall terms???

If you really wanted to have cells that you could run 4 x 2 , inline and 3 x 3 just lay the cells out

III i ii

so the second "3 pack" uses a link wire between the 2 cells and the 3rd rather than a battery bar!!!!!

No issue at all and certainly no reason to reject this car, or any other that uses 4 x 2 for that matter.

If your more worried about battery pack configuration than getting the best balance out of your car then may I suggest that your not going to get the best out of any top line racer.

Don't wish to sound rude but really performance should be the driving influence to any car design.

[SHY]

Us X-5 owners already addressed this:
http://www.one-ten-rcforums.com/4wdrc/viewtopic.php?id=1382

I might add that using Deans plugs in stead of plugs/tubes (Corally style) makes it a lot easier to make'em fit any car!

Question: Shaft-drive cars give a sideways torque effect, which isn't ideal. Why not use a bevelled spur & pinion gear and mount it longitudinally? And in addition make the gearboxes assymetrical like on the eight?

[mark christopher]

BTW what's the idea behind the Schuey logo??? (the 3 arrows)

it represents the ball diff, which was designed by Cecil Schumacher

[mark christopher]

One thing not mentioned, now the motor spins WITH the drivetrain, does that mean it'll be backwards to jump?

i.e apply throttle to lower the nose instead of raising it?

I'm not a buggy driver, never jumped one so I don't know. :thumbsup:


nope
its the rotating mass that alters the angle of the car, and that in a buggy is the wheels/tyres drive train, motor has little effect of a shaft car would roll to its side in the air when power applied

[SHY]

... and with brushless motors the armature is also quite smaller & lighter compared to brushed motors = even less rotating mass...

[Welshy40]

Only thing I would say on that Welshy is make sure you will be able to get spares for your Tamiya if your at a track and break it, or if many others at your local club or friends will run that car to assist with parts. I know most UK shops have pre ordered the new Cat SX and spares will be readily available throughout the Uk, and there will also be team drivers present at lots of big meetings for assistance if needed. Just a couple of things to bear in mind.
Mark

Dont worry about spares, as I have plenty of places to buy from, and before I go and race again i will have enough spares for every conceivable problem.

However back to the point, yes the car looks a bit of a disaster, but there may be something to this new Cat, and lets hope that they can get back into the game with a big bang. If they can get some good drivers that can make an impact at the worlds then they will be half way there. Its about time, and hope they do well with this car.

[super__dan]

If they can get some good drivers that can make an impact at the worlds

Si Moss and Matt white are good drivers wise in the UK, I assume the next worlds isn't until 2009 now though?

[Welshy40]

Si Moss and Matt white are good drivers wise in the UK, I assume the next worlds isn't until 2009 now though?

I havent heard of them, have they made any worlds A's? If not then maybe Schumacher should try and get someone like Neil Cragg, now he is a good driver. Im not saying that the guys you mentioned are good, but I kindof doubt theyd make an impact at the worlds.

[Robbiejuk]

Hmm looks like it could get quite noisy on a dusty track with those exposed gears at the back, how do you adjust the slipper clutch?

As i said before in the video I saw it looked ace going round the track though, and who cares what chassis looks like? It's the performance that counts.

Wayne rooney isn't a good looking guy, but he is a very good footballer.

Hope to see it on sunday if it's there :thumbsup:

[DCM]

I havent heard of them, have they made any worlds A's? If not then maybe Schumacher should try and get someone like Neil Cragg, now he is a good driver. Im not saying that the guys you mentioned are good, but I kindof doubt theyd make an impact at the worlds.

how to make friends and influence people lol.

Sometimes good driver can drive but can't design a car though....

[schmacher]

hey shy, my other cars are all saddle packs..so yeah it is a pain so get over yourself

[SHY]

hey shy, my other cars are all saddle packs..so yeah it is a pain so get over yourself

You mean other 4WD cars then? Which ones?

And didn't mean to sound rude, sorry! It's so boring to be nice all the time :lol:Just trying to help really! I had the same "doubts" before buying the X-5, but it's been no biggie really.

[Oliv996]

... and with brushless motors the armature is also quite smaller & lighter compared to brushed motors = even less rotating mass...

200% agree with you SHY :D

The point advanced in the specs sounds as flat tire :eh?:

[SHY]

Olivier, how about the question I posed: Shaft-drive cars give a sideways torque effect, which isn't ideal. Why not use a bevelled spur & pinion gear and mount it longitudinally? And in addition make the gearboxes assymetrical like on the eight? (= motor in dead center)

What's your opinion?

I guess you would have to change both the spur AND pinion when changing ratio to get a good gear mesh. But you normally don't change that.

[matt]

I havent heard of them, have they made any worlds A's? If not then maybe Schumacher should try and get someone like Neil Cragg, now he is a good driver. Im not saying that the guys you mentioned are good, but I kindof doubt theyd make an impact at the worlds.
What a ****ish thing to say. If You have not heard off them how can you say that they won't be able to make a impact at the world:mad:.

[Oliv996]

Olivier, how about the question I posed: Shaft-drive cars give a sideways torque effect, which isn't ideal. Why not use a bevelled spur & pinion gear and mount it longitudinally? And in addition make the gearboxes assymetrical like on the eight? (= motor in dead center)

What's your opinion?

I guess you would have to change both the spur AND pinion when changing ratio to get a good gear mesh. But you normally don't change that.

The sideways torque effect seems significant on 1/10 Touring Cars but on 1/10 Offroad Cars I don't think it's so much significant moreover as you said with brushless motors. Otherwise I can't explain why for so many years 1/8 Gas Offroad are still shaft-drive cars :confused::confused::confused:

It's just my point of view, I'm not claiming to have all the truth in hands :blush:

[Lee]

They may not be a worlds A finalist but how many teams with schueys budget have a driver capable of such things, if you took AE and Losi drivers out of the A final at the worlds who would be left??

Si moss could make the A at the euros and i doubt matt would be too far off.

And welshy if you haven`t heard of them i think you should read up before you spout sh!te. Si moss actually won a national A final last summer:mad:

[ashleyb4]

I havent heard of them, have they made any worlds A's? If not then maybe Schumacher should try and get someone like Neil Cragg, now he is a good driver. Im not saying that the guys you mentioned are good, but I kindof doubt theyd make an impact at the worlds.

:mad::mad::mad:

simon moss he is a top driver challenging for the uk national championship aginst the likes of neil cragg lee martin and darren bloomfield. the perfect person to put the new car though its paces. Dont start knocking people until you know who they are.

rant over.

A

[matt]

And i think i'm right in saying Matt did very well in 12ths last year.

[SHY]

The sideways torque effect seems significant on 1/10 Touring Cars but on 1/10 Offroad Cars I don't think it's so much significant moreover as you said with brushless motors. Otherwise I can't explain why for so many years 1/8 Gas Offroad are still shaft-drive cars :confused::confused::confused:

It's just my point of view, I'm not claiming to have all the truth in hands :blush:

For 1:8 OR I think it's just because belts and gears wouldn't last with rock, sand etc. If shaft-drive were an advantage we would have used it in 1:8 TR, and nobody does (SG tried many, many years ago and went bankrupt :lol:). I think you would add more weight, and you get poorer acceleration. (And a less free rolling tranny?) But in OR you don't need all that effect, so it doesn't matter. I don't know if you guys are aware that a 1:8 TR goes 0-100 km/h in 1,4 secs? On-road is not THAT much of a walk in the park! :lol:

Also 1:8 OR cars have even bigger wheels, and the flywheel is alu. Still, you have the clutch and crankshaft of course, but I think it will all be neutralized by the wheels.

I did one 1:8 OR race last year, and I didn't notice any sideways torque effect. Haven't tried a 1:10 OR with shaft-drive yet. I think Cris Doughty mentioned that he could feel a slight sideways torque effect with a shaft-driven 1:10 OR though, and if so you can correct it by steering and giving throttle or braking in the air.

[stegger]

Wayne rooney isn't a good looking guy, but he is a very good footballer.

We should call the SX the wayne Rooney, just don't give it to your granny;):lol::lol::lol:

[jas_racing]

how to make friends and influence people lol.

Sometimes good driver can drive but can't design a car though....

Both Simon Moss and Matt White are world-class drivers imho and I have no doubt they will do Schumacher and their new car proud in terms of development, race results and representation of the brand :thumbsup:

[JohnM]

I havent heard of them, have they made any worlds A's? If not then maybe Schumacher should try and get someone like Neil Cragg, now he is a good driver. Im not saying that the guys you mentioned are good, but I kindof doubt theyd make an impact at the worlds.

Tut, Tut, Tut, Welshy, Welshy, open mouth, insert foot:thumbdown: Like others have already said, just cos you ain't heard of them, doesn't mean they're not good. Up till last year I'd never heard of the Japansese kid who won the 2wd Worlds, so he must've been crap before then hay?!

I've not meet Simom, but to win a UK National takes some doing. Matt White I do know from a few years back before I'd given up racing for a while, he was always fast, and very hard for me to run with, let alone beat, but when you came to Lawford last year Welshy, I had no problems at all with you:p and I'm probably not a quick now as I was when I last raced Matt:lol:

I even quite like the idea, that if I get a Cat, that someone I know has had a hand in making it:thumbsup:

[_sleigh_]

I reckon they read my mind. :thumbsup:

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[DCM]

Both Simon Moss and Matt White are world-class drivers imho and I have no doubt they will do Schumacher and their new car proud in terms of development, race results and representation of the brand :thumbsup:

in no way was it a question on the guys ability, as I know they are top drivers, I was merely stating that, that a top driver might not be able to design the car, but be good at making a car work.

[Welshy40]

What a ****ish thing to say. If You have not heard off them how can you say that they won't be able to make a impact at the world:mad:.

Well we have all heard about the consistent drivers such as Pavidi, Kinwald, Masami, and even Cragg and Drescher.

But these two guys who I have never heard of before but lets hope they can do some justice for this car.

But these guys may have won a national here and there, just like Jon Tucker way back in the 90s but when he went to the Worlds he made the D finals so really unless they can make the A then they are not up there in same league as the top drivers. However I would like them to prove me wrong. Dont forget schumacher had Masami and he won, and made an impact. Thats whats needed.

[Richard Lowe]

Haha, your posts just keep getting funnier Welshy :lol:

[Mossy]

Well we have all heard about the consistent drivers such as Pavidi, Kinwald, Masami, and even Cragg and Drescher.

But these two guys who I have never heard of before but lets hope they can do some justice for this car.

But these guys may have won a national here and there, just like Jon Tucker way back in the 90s but when he went to the Worlds he made the D finals so really unless they can make the A then they are not up there in same league as the top drivers. However I would like them to prove me wrong. Dont forget schumacher had Masami and he won, and made an impact. Thats whats needed.


Think thats a little bit of an unfair comparison to be honest. No one is doubting the talents of World A final drivers and yes they are in a separate league, but to get that to sort of standard you have to be able to commit to racing 100% and make a career out of it, which only a fortunate few get the chance to.

I dont claim to be in the same brackets as the likes of Pavidis etc, and will never be I imagine (although it would be nice). To get to these levels you gotta have the talent and the time to practice. Think Pidge is the perfect example of this as we all knew he had the talent, now he's in a position where he can show it off on the Worlds stage.

I am delighted to be back with Schumacher and leading the team in the development of the Cat SX. We have been working hard over the last 3 months to get the car to a position where it can perform at the highest level. I've lost count of the amount of days I've spent with Phil Booth testing around the country and this has been wonderfully supported by Matt who has a great knowledge when it comes to developing cars. Throughout testing the car has performed excellently and any issues people may be concerned with regarding the drivetrain are unfounded. This is an area that we have never had an issue with at all.

Thanks for the support from you guys in terms of stating what you consider myself and Matt are capable off with the car. I'm sure that we can really be challenging at meetings throughout the year.

As for Welshy40's comments in terms of if im capable to compete at the top, hopefully 2 European A Finals (3rd place with the Cat3000), 4 national wins and over 50 National A finals will stand me in good stead.

Si Moss

[Lee]

Si, i dont think it matters what you have done to welshy, he will always be a tool.


Keep up the good work:thumbsup:

[Mossy]

True

[sparrow.2]

But these guys may have won a national here and there, just like Jon Tucker way back in the 90s but when he went to the Worlds he made the D finals so really unless they can make the A then they are not up there in same league as the top drivers.

D-Final at the worlds!!! Is that all he can do? He must be utterly crap!

:thumbsup:

This thread gets better all the time.

Back on topic

The only good point I can find about the CatSX at the moment is that it uses the same battery configuration as my X-6... It looks too fussy to work on to me but I'd love to be proven wrong

[Lee]

Personally, i dont like the look of the car, but you dont buy a car for its looks (well i dont)

I think the aero is Fugly, but i think its quick.

This car looks like it will work, it has the weight in the right place and from the pics i cant see a reason why it wont. We have the assurance of si and matt that the drive train is robust, so its looking good.

[bender]

Since we are on the subject of testing, can someone tell me if this car has been tested on anything but UK tracks?

[JohnM]

Dont forget schumacher had Masami and he won, and made an impact. Thats whats needed.

If I remember right, Masami had nothing to do with the development of the Cat back in '87, in fact I think he turned up with the short car, then was given a Cat XL by Schumacher during qualiy, then won with that, but being Masami, he'd probably would've won with a Hotshot, or a Mini Mustang:lol:.

Also thinking back, didn't Bill Jones make that same Worlds A with a Hotshot?

[schmacher]

hey shy, i've got a xx4,cat 2000 ec,cat 3000,predator x10, and a tamiya trf 501x

[bish]

mossy, how free is the drivetrain with 3 belts when compared to a standard 2 belt set up? (as per touring cars etc) is it just the advent of brushless that negate any losses?

[Chillout47]

Dont get me wrong, I love Schumacher cars, (I still have my original Bosscat) but I'm living in the USA now, and I can get a B44 world champ car for £160. Is this a no brainer or should I get a cat? I was very excited when I saw the cat SX was on its way, I dont know what to do!!!!

Cheers lads,

Mark.

[SHY]

hey shy, i've got a xx4,cat 2000 ec,cat 3000,predator x10, and a tamiya trf 501x

Do you race with all of them? :D

At least if you go for 5 cells, and a 3-2 layout it will fit most cars. Just a tip...

[SHY]

Dont get me wrong, I love Schumacher cars, (I still have my original Bosscat) but I'm living in the USA now, and I can get a B44 world champ car for £160. Is this a no brainer or should I get a cat? I was very excited when I saw the cat SX was on its way, I dont know what to do!!!!

Cheers lads,

Mark.

C'mon! It's british... You're british... :D

[matt]

welshy, he will always be a tool.
LMAO:thumbsup: