210/410 heat issues??

[OneKiwi]

I have a LRP tc spec in my 210.

Geared at 83/21 there abouts and the motor (LRP x12 8.5T with 0 timing/standard insert) is coming off att 100°C the last run I did.
Do I go up pinion? 24/25 maybe?
Im struggling to get the esc up to 60°C

Anyone else running this esc? Like it? I find it a bit slow/soft/lazy and Im not sure If I should just turn up the timing on the ,motor or settings in the esc.


Also: in the 410

I have the rs pro and 2 second party caps.
Its in my v3 on a tightish/med carpet track running 0 timing 85 current limiter and rest as standard.
The esc is coming off at around 80-90°C, nearly all lights blinking geared at 87/19 motor at about 60-70°C
Losi 6.5T motor no timing
What am I doing wrong? How do I get the temps down?

[Chalkie]

Not sure on the 210 but the 410 may be undergeared, I'm running 87/23 on a X12 6.5 octa indoors at the moment and it seems ok.

[Jason A]

In my Dex210 I am running my 6.5t Novak on kit spur on 23 pinion and it's not even coming off hot :-)

Running LRP tc v2 0 timing on V3 offroad software.

:-)

[aeb4]

If my calculations are correct, your 210 is quite a lot under geared. The recommended gear ratio for that motor is 8.5:1 in a 2wd, and your currently on 10.28. I'd recommend trying a 25 on the 83 tooth spur, as that would give around 8.6.

[Chris-S]

Not sure on the 210 but the 410 may be undergeared, I'm running 87/23 on a X12 6.5 octa indoors at the moment and it seems ok.

Running the same gear ratio on my 410. Speedo is an ORCA vritra pro with a 6.5 turn motor, running a small amount of static timing on the speedo and some turbo timing. Motor gets to 70degrees or so and the speedo 50ish, always run a fan on the speedo.
I have cut the front and rear out of the body so there is more air flow through the car, this lowered the motor/speedo temps.

My 210 has the same speedo but with a 7.5turn motor with a 24t pinion/87t spur. Speedo never gets above 40, motor not above 50.


Make sure the transmissions are running free and the pinion mesh is correct. Also check the slipper is not loose.
The Tekins will struggle in a 4wd unless you have a fan over them, tbh most speedo's will get hot in a 410. If I dont run a fan on my Orca when racing indoors it will thermal.

[OneKiwi]

FYI its not the newer LRP speedo

Thanks people Ill test the gearing tomorrow see how it goes.

Anyone know of a way to mount a fan on the tekin? I have glued one behind it once, may just have to do that again, but would be good to get some sort of case/bracket

EDIT: found a awesome looking case + fan here (http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_info.php/cPath/1_221_1364/products_id/218866/n/Viper-R-C-VTX10R-ESC-Fan-Kit)

How did you get the gear ratio calculations?

Here is how my 410 turned out today

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c338/simonandhanna/IMAG0654.jpg

[aeb4]

I used the internal gear ratio as 2.6, which I think is correct.
Then did the internal gear ratio divided by the number of tooth on the pinion, then multiplied that by the number of teeth on the spur.

Therefore 2.6/21=0.124, then 0.124*83=10.28

That's how I worked mine out anyway and its been spot on so far, coming off barely warm, quite unusual for an X12!

[OneKiwi]

Ok thanks and the recommended ratio, where do you find that?
Whats the 410 rgr anyone?

[Andrew Twigger]

The recommended ratio tends to be associated with a particular motor rather than a specific car. The motor manufacturer may recommend a ratio for 2wd or 4wd buggy which may help.

For example, LRP suggest an FDR of 10.8 for the 6.5 LRP Octa that I have in a 4wd buggy. Obviously these are only guidelines and certain tracks and conditions may suit different gearings.

[hloland]

In the Dex 410 manual page 33, you have the gear chart.

http://www.team-durango.com/pdf/manuals/TD102001/2010%20410%20Manual%20with%20cover.pdf

Novak brushless motor GEARING RECOMMENDATIONS: (more or less the same for most brushless systems)

http://www.teamnovak.com/tech_info/brushless/br_gearing.html

[gazmond]

You can also use the below link to make your own gearing charts. Just put in the transmission ratio, spur and pinion and it will generate a chart showing the ratio for the info you input as well as a whole bunch of combinaions either side of your selection.

http://www.gearchart.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=chart.create

You can also turn off the crap tune that plays when you first load the site as well :woot:
'

[WHITTLER555]

Hi, I would gear:

210 - 87/25

410 - 87/23

Just use the kit spur gear.

[OneKiwi]

Hi, I would gear:

210 - 87/25

410 - 87/23

Just use the kit spur gear.

Have you heard them?? Im going to get a RW for the 410 soon
Does anyone use different teeth with the spur gear or always 87?

[Chris-S]

Have you heard them?? Im going to get a RW for the 410 soon
Does anyone use different teeth with the spur gear or always 87?

Have always used 87, you could alter the weight balance on the 210 using a smaller pinion. I think you would be hard pushed to notice the difference tbh.

[WHITTLER555]

Have you heard them?? Im going to get a RW for the 410 soon
Does anyone use different teeth with the spur gear or always 87?

What? heard the spur gear?

I have used them for 3 years now, meshed up correctly they are not noisey?

The noise you hear from most 410's are dry CVD's!

[OneKiwi]

I managed to get a fan in test a 17T pinion and do some body work and it did help a bit. I wasn't at the same track. Still carpet but smaller and tighter. Lacked the speed on the straight so I will test a 19T this week

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c338/simonandhanna/IMAG0656-1.jpg

The 210 it helped going to a 24/25T but the motor still got warm, not hot this time so might see if I have a 26 maybe

[Big G]

it might be worth just opening a few holes in the shell. I found mine was thermalling out when racing on hot days. after I made holes I haven't had a problem since.

[Matt Butcher]

i would recommend using the 0000 timing insert and adding alittle more boost/ timing on the speedo, the 0 insert will add alot of heat in the motor as x12 motors have alot of timing inbuilt.

HTH's

[OneKiwi]

i would recommend using the 0000 timing insert and adding alittle more boost/ timing on the speedo, the 0 insert will add alot of heat in the motor as x12 motors have alot of timing inbuilt.

HTH's

Intresting I have the 00/standard now from memory 0000 is -10°

[OneKiwi]

i would recommend using the 0000 timing insert and adding alittle more boost/ timing on the speedo, the 0 insert will add alot of heat in the motor as x12 motors have alot of timing inbuilt.

HTH's

Intresting I have the 00/standard now and from memory 0000 is -10°

I have opened up the side vents and made 3 holes in the front window

[hotrodchris]

FYI its not the newer LRP speedo



How did you get the gear ratio calculations?


http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c338/simonandhanna/IMAG0654.jpg

Kiwi

There are also aps available that will work this out available for a smart phone!

[ASR]

I had a few temp issues all of a sudden for a couple of meetings last year, when running on the same equipment i had been since the start of the season. I went through everything in the car and it was perfect condition and the problem remained!!!

The final thing i did was to totally re-wire the car inc connectors and sensor wire, problem solved straight away.

The car never performed badly before, just got mega hot, only thing i could imagine was that the wiring was fractured causing electrical resistance. I'm not certain but all i know is it solved my problem.

Hope this helps?

[OneKiwi]

Did you redo servo wires etc or just the 12AWG wires?
It maybe worth a shot

[ASR]

No, didn't touch servo wires, its just process of elimination and if you have explored every other avenue then its worth a go.

[OneKiwi]

I am getting a little better temps with the fan in and 87/19 on the 410 but still not totally happy( maybe never will)

17T pinion lacked the speed on the straight

Now the LRP in the 210, I can't get the esc above 60° that I am happy about.

I changed settings from agressive throttle no. 6 of 8 down to no.1 and noticed only the smallest difference, I had hopped that that would help the temps but no still 100° on the motor geared at 83/25

I have now taken the motor timing down to 000 -5° that didn't really help either

I might just look at going back to the 87 spur to see if that helps or changes anything.

Any more pointers?

Ill swap the cables in the 410 today to try that

[drobec]

Are all the components of your drivetrain moving free? (driveshafts, diffs) And what about slipper? Isn't it too lose? What's it's temperature after the run? Also reflashing software in ESC might help, it cooled my SP GT 10 degrees down. Try to do your wiring and you'll see, I'm also rebulding mine, my car's also quite hot after the run, I'm trying 10 AWG (thicker) cables from battery to ESC cause batteries are also hot (they're taking heat from chassis). I'll also try alu tape under motor and/or batteries to reflect some heat. Compared to Cat, Rango's quite hot car in my opinion.

I'm running 410 (one of the first kits) btw.

[OneKiwi]

With the 410 its a new v3 so might have a little bit of running in needed.

The 210 well holding one wheel and the spur I do have to use a bit of force to twist the other one thus moving the slipper.

I might just switch back to the ball diff and see if its the gear diff that maybe is too tight.

[Andrew Twigger]

LRP's are known to run hotter than other makes. Can you hold your finger on the can for a couple of seconds after a run?

Are you doing 5 minute runs?

[Big G]

I temp gunned mine on tuesday.

The track is very small with low grip. The car only maxes out top speed maybe once a lap for less than a second. Indoors also.

I run a Reedy Sonic 6.5 (19t pinion) with the RS pro speedo. After 6 mins of run time my motor was 67oC and the speedo was around 80oC.

No fans only holes in the shell.

[OneKiwi]

I suppose they maybe shouldn't expect a warm motor after a whole lipo. Although Im not running a full lipo to cut off.

I did have a play around with the 210 today and found that with the gear diff doesn't turning as smoothly, so Im pretty sure that, that is the problem.

I felt this when I was building it and read about the same problem that a few others were having. I hoped that it would bed in after so much running.
Maybe TD do have a problem with the gear diffs

I haven't put the ball diff back in as I swapped out one of the plastic idel gears with one of the metal ones from the arrma diff that is a little smaller.

It does spin better but only had a RM3 (ball diff that spins better) to compare it to, more gears a little more friction