Rule query

[Lee]

It was pointed out to me at the weekend that the aero does not have a front bumper and it supposedly needs to for national events??


Now in the hand book there is no stipulation of bumpers but rules saying the maximum width etc of any bumper fitted.

My understanding of the rule book is that if you have a bumper fitted it must adhere to the handbook but if you dont have one it is not a problem?


Correct me if i have missed something:thumbsup:

[Wraggy]

Pidge never had one on his all last season, and nothing was said . so im guessing you will be ok ...

[Cockerill]

I *think* there is a rule in there somewhere about it, there definitely used to be, but it may have been removed as Paul W has done some cleaning up of the rule over recent years.

I really don't think it matters Lee, remember your doing off-road now :thumbsup:

[Nick Goodall]

Pidge never had one on his all last season, and nothing was said . so im guessing you will be ok ...

Yeah and let's be honest, if it was a problem i'm sure it would have been bought up immediately if it was on Lee's car :lol:

[Lee]

Ha Ha yeah Tom i do forget.

I remember at a national a few years ago Teemu Leino was over for schuey and he stuck on a different shell for the final round of qualifying and took TQ, someone then from another team complained that he had no lights on his new shell. Teemu consequently had his TQ taken off him.

Thats how gay onroad is:thumbdown:

[Northy]

I would suggest it is "non damaging" though, which I think could be a bit of a grey area the way the Aero is designed...... :(

G

[Lee]

How do you mean G?

It has no sharp edges etc

Personally i think if it was picked up and failed scruitineering because of this they really would be knit picking, when you look at the bj4 etc the bumpers are pretty useless and wouldn`t really save anyones ankles if they were to hit them

[Cockerill]

23.2 The overall width of any bumper must not exceed the overall width of the front of the car including wheels. The bumper must be constructed of a resilient material such as plastic or rubber, with rounded edges and corners, and be of a design which will not cause personal injury.

As I said Lee it's off-road, I highly doubt anyone would complain about it.

[Northy]

I can't see how a big chunk of ali and two cap head screws can be classed as non damaging.

Imagine how sharp the ali piece will be after it's hit a few curbs etc.

G

[jimmy]

bet you could shave with it

[Wraggy]

how about the original RC10 tub chassis G :thumbsup:
never ran a bumper on that thing ..
isnt the rules if the car is manufactured with a bumper you must use it ???

I can't see how a big chunk of ali and two cap head screws can be classed as non damaging.

Imagine how sharp the ali piece will be after it's hit a few curbs etc.

G

[daz]

23.2 The overall width of any bumper must not exceed the overall width of the front of the car including wheels. The bumper must be constructed of a resilient material such as plastic or RUBBER, with rounded edges and corners, and be of a design which will not cause personal injury.

As I said Lee it's off-road, I highly doubt anyone would complain about it.

Just slapped a jonnie on the front!!!!!!!!!!!:p

[ashleyb4]

Lee as Paul Worsley said at the indoor finals if you have any queries about rules or how things work e-mail Charlie F but as it is tech related Phil sleigh might be able to answer your question.

A

[Lee]

Charlie`s email isn`t working for some reason i tried to email him this morning, if some one could pm me his address it would be ace:thumbsup:

[ashleyb4]

He has an account on here lee drop him a PM asking for his e-mail address. i think its CharlieF

A

[Lee]

Ok chaps, without stirring things up, would this be illegal?


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GPM-ALLOY-FRONT-BUMPER-AB4003F-S-fits-ASSOCIATED-B4_W0QQitemZ130212988988QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item13 0212988988


I was looking for a b4 plastic one and came accross it.

[ashleyb4]

The bumper must be constructed of a resilient material such as plastic or rubber

Sorry dude :(

[Lee]

Thats what i was getting at ash :lol:


Are you sure alloy isn`t resilient:confused:

im not getting it anyway i was just seeing if people had been told not to use them:confused:

[Northy]

Well, I was hit by a car flat out on my leg last year at Oxfest and I'll tell you now, it's not very nice.

G

[Lee Martin]

ive been hit by loads! just get out the way quicker!

its gonig to hurt alot what ever its made from! try getting hit by a 8th! in the head.(not that i have, but i have seen it)

[Chrislong]

Wow, that alloy bumper would make a B4 into a mobile axe! Could put it on upside down and trim the grass.

The rule has been relaxed, look back at the time of the Cat Xls and Ayk's, they had big bumpers, the kyoshos had a less flexible smaller item as did the Cat 2000 and since then they are getting smaller and smaller. The one on a B4 is pretty much there to stop the blue brace scratching, its going to be painful with or without, but its an incentive for me as a marshal to be very careful - and as a driver to becareful of any legs on the track, including mid-race.

Do we want bumpers in the rules, if so do we want functional bumpers, or just a piece of plastic to cover any alloy. Im happy with it the way it is, no more rules.

[Northy]

I'm not saying being hit by anything doesn't hurt, but I was actually looking where I was supposed to be marshalling at the time, and the guy was been a bit too gung-ho (he did appologise after).

However, if there is a big bit of ali on the front of a car, and it hits a curb on one lap making it sharp, then hits me on the next lap, that is going to be worse than if the same happens with a car that has a nice big plastic bumper.

I'm not going to argue my point any more, it's quite simply common sense to me. But then again, there is a problem with common sense........ :(

G

[Garry Driffill]

If you fitted somthing that you know is already legal like a B4 bumper you know its going to be ok becasue its legal for curtain.

[Lee]

I dont think it would be much use as a curtain garry:lol:


Ill try and make a B4 one fit, my question is though does it have to be fixed with screws or would double sided tape be sufficient, i ask because the aero screws are already countersunk and i dont want screws protruding from the chassis

[Northy]

Are the holes anywhere like lining up?

G

[Nick Goodall]

Bumper or no bumper, plastic or metal - the car could still hurt if it hit you and possibly cut you, but come on guys - 1/10th off road is hardly "dangerous" is it??

You're more likely to get cut by a split Carbon shock tower when picking a car up, or a screw coming loose and sticking out - if we're in the position where people are not getting hit by cars and causing injury then the health and safety brigade will have to step in and slow the cars down, surround the marshalls with cotton wool and strap huge ankle protectors on.

I really don't think it needs a big discussion :lol:

[Lee]

No the B4 ones are much wider:thumbdown:

[Chequered Flag Racing]

It was pointed out to me at the weekend that the aero does not have a front bumper and it supposedly needs to for national events??




TTech/Predator chassis has managed without since it's launch back in 93

[Garry Driffill]

Should have bought a different car Lee :p

[Lee]

Im not allowed to talk about Team Xtreme cars, i cause people to have "accidents" :lol:


If i could get a very small one that could mount on the front of the allow bit that would be ideal.

[Garry Driffill]

TTech/Predator chassis has managed without since it's launch back in 93


Its not such as a flat edge like the BJ4, b44, aero and S4 type as you know and the normal style ones are alot wider. With the norm style car its got a good one and a half inch of rock solid carbon in a right angle from a side veiw like a L shape.

The pred one as you know mate is bearly wider than half and inch and isnt that sort of L shape.. nice soft plastic :) nose cone F1 bumper LOL :D

[Lee Martin]

ROBOT WARS!

[Lee Martin]

G are you a HSE officer? lol

[Northy]

G are you a HSE officer? lol

Nope :thumbdown:

[stegger]

Will a micro bumper fit????:)

[Lee]

Depends how micro it is?


At the end of the day the rule book does not say you have to have a bumper fitted.:)

[Stu]

23.2 The overall width of any bumper must not exceed the overall width of the front of the car including wheels. The bumper must be constructed of a resilient material such as plastic or rubber, with rounded edges and corners, and be of a design which will not cause personal injury.




It's a bit like the spare wheel on a read car - if the tyre is bald it's a fail, but if there is not one present then thats OK.

[Teddy truman]

Some of the rules r so stupid! this sport just is not as fun as i used to be!:thumbdown:

[Wraggy]

the official answer is:

the rule has not been relaxed. Rule 23.2 has been essentially the same for 10 years or more. .
It does not state that a bumper has to be fitted, but it gives guidelines on the design of any bumper used.

However, common sense should always prevail and if a car is considered to be dangerous in any way due to particular design features, the Steward of the meeting is empowered to insist that steps are taken to solve the safety issue.

The possible statement ""it was used last year" can be dismissed.
If something is judged to be unnecessarily dangerous, then the fact that it has previously been used would not be considered, otherwise no new safety rule would ever get actioned.

[Chris Doughty]

Some of the rules r so stupid! this sport just is not as fun as i used to be!:thumbdown:

Tony, RACING is just as much fun as it ever was and I am sure you would agree

I don't think many rules have changed or any stupid rules have come in.

I think what has happened is that there are more people talking about rules on forums. I think because we all love racing so much that we want to be talking about it when we are away from the track.

[Chrislong]

Lee, wishing you hadn't raised the subject yet? :lol:

Looks to me like nothing needs changing, but if any of any of you think differently then feel free to propose to AGM. Going round in circles here is getting nowhere. :lol:

[Teddy truman]

how can you say that Doughty.... lots of new rules have come in, in the last few years its just got more and more strict... race meetings r not as relaxed as they used to be its more like school!

[Chris Doughty]

I can't think of any rules that make it feel like school, nothing more than it used to anyway ??

I may be overlooking or forgetting something though