Short Course Nationals Race Format

[spyro]

Anybody got any comments on the new race format?

All comments good or bad apreciated, afterall we are still a "new" class and now is the time to make our racing a little different.

[Frecklychimp]

Not enough tinkering time between rounds IMO...

not convinced that 6 minute racing is needed really...

can't complain about amount of track time but would sooner have time to mess about with set up and go grab a butty etc, didn't feel it was very relaxed or social having to rush around between rounds... glad i wasn't trying to run 2 classes! took 2 rounds to get set of tyres glued and dried for use then it was wet so missed the round they were needed :(

for a 50 ish driver meeting it was a very long day it felt, i know we lost time with weather and messing around with votes on running etc... could have run the last round of finals in the time it took to get a decision!

You can't really change the format now or it is not exactly fair on the championship standings... pretty sure Rob J would have been in a much different position if it had been 5 minute racing... his electrics only messed around at the end of the heats!

[Robbiejuk]

Surley it would give you more tinkering time? :D

Personally I enjoyed the format BUT thats probably because I was on pole for the qualifying and not in the middle of the pack. I know a few people got mauled on the first corner in every one of the three qualifier mass starts in the top heat.

With qualifying for me you are racing against the clock, not each other, and because your time doesn't start till you cross the loop on the staggered start your racing against your own clock. With the mass starts we had I think a few people forgot they were qualifiying, especially at the start.

I liked the 6 minute racing though :thumbsup: Gave you that extra bit of time to catch up if you made a mistake. :thumbsup: Well assuming you didn't have a dodgy speedo like me :lol:

P.s. I think chimp didn't like it because it was an extra minute for him to get lapped in..

[Dudders]

What was the format? :confused:

Assume 6 minute heats?
Final length?
Rounds?
Time Between Rounds?

[Robbiejuk]

Ok so all races were 6 minutes.

1st round of qualifying was standard stagger start

Rounds 2 3 and 4 were Mass start (2X2 grid, well sometimes :D) with the grid based on where you came in your heat in the 1st round of qualifying.

Finals should have been 3 rounds with your best two results added together to give your final position.

2 minutes between heats

[1rcdad]

Great meeting but agree there was no time between rounds,maybe need an earlier start for 1st heat on the line (think it was about 10.25) if that had been 9.30 we could have had 30 min break at lunchtime.

[Dudders]

How many heats per round and what gap (if any) in between?

[spyro]

ok from the top:

6 minute heats and finals.

4 rounds of qualifying and 3 leg finals.

Qualifying round 1 was a staggered start in number order.

Qualifying for rounds 2, 3, and 4 was a side by side grid based on your finishing position from the previous heat.

So for example if you finished first in round 2 you where on pole for round 3.

Finals where a standard staggered grid.

Scoring was on round points, best 2 out of 4 rounds for qualifying and 2 out of three finals.

[Frecklychimp]

Surley it would give you more tinkering time? :D

P.s. I think chimp didn't like it because it was an extra minute for him to get lapped in..

I know what you mean Rob... but when you take out time waiting to go on, the heat, 2 mins between, marshalling then 2 mins to leave track waiting for next marshal to cover, and getting back to pits... it soon swallows the time up when there was no break between rounds and only 5 heats running.

from the overalls i saw at the end of the meeting... i was 8th and you were 9th... so all that extra lapping just wore your tyres out more :p

tbh agree with the position on grid starts for qualifying... brings on red mist syndrome, great when you are up front and can get out of the way, but it's a first corner accident to avoid getting tangled in when competing against the clock... it's the main reason i beat Wardy at SCT Carnage 2.5... he was slightly faster lapping but was getting tangled at the start every round!

[Robbiejuk]

Qualifying for rounds 2, 3, and 4 was a side by side grid based on your finishing position from the previous heat.

So for example if you finished first in round 2 you where on pole for round 3.



Well that didn't happen, didn't in our heat anyways...

[Dudders]

In the Real Lucas Series the Racing is rolling start in a side by side format.

[Frecklychimp]

In the Real Lucas Series the Racing is rolling start in a side by side format.

Good luck with trying to run that one :lol:

[Frecklychimp]

Well that didn't happen, didn't in our heat anyways...

Agreed, we were all gridded to first qualifying position every round... so the system failed and results are voided in the first round... top work chaps :thumbdown:

[Hpi_guy]

A rolling start would look good but unless all driver took it steady then it wouldn't work, also some people would go full power when the first car crosses the line

[Dudders]

Rolling start could work at a lower speed.... it's fun to do.

Don't worry about grid positions at the next round, the person who gives me the most grief will be at the back :D:D:D

[Frecklychimp]

This all should have been sorted before the championship started and organised to run properly...

If you are telling us now that the first 2012 SCT National was an experiment then not impressed at all, especially when there has already been a series run last year and a lot of us have raced the trucks for 3+ years

It's already clear that the top heat qualifiers were not running fairly?!

This wants sorting now before racers are driving 100's of miles to the next round.

:mad:

rolling start is a retarded idea, don't even consider it an option.

[spyro]

In the Real Lucas Series the Racing is rolling start in a side by side format.

That's the heat starts are based on but we deciced for obvious reason that a rolling start was a no no.

[Dudders]

This all should have been sorted before the championship started and organised to run properly...

If you are telling us now that the first 2012 SCT National was an experiment then not impressed at all, especially when there has already been a series run last year and a lot of us have raced the trucks for 3+ years

It's already clear that the top heat qualifiers were not running fairly?!

This wants sorting now before racers are driving 100's of miles to the next round.

:mad:

rolling start is a retarded idea, don't even consider it an option.

Who you calling a retard, Chimp! :woot:. Got yourself sorted for the Saturday yet? :wub

[Dudders]

That's the heat starts are based on but we deciced for obvious reason that a rolling start was a no no.

Yea, was just thinking allowed as it takes a lot of discipline :thumbsup:

[Frecklychimp]

Who you calling a retard, Chimp! :woot:. Got yourself sorted for the Saturday yet? :wub

We're coming down Sunday as two of us are working...

but if the results have been screwed up in the first round due to bad organisation then it's put me off the series a bit tbh.

[Dudders]

Stop being an old woman! We'll see you o. The 13rh April :thumbsup:

[bomber]

QUOTE Frecklychimp
It's already clear that the top heat qualifiers were not running fairly?!

Enlighten me why was they not running fairly

[Frecklychimp]

read above!

we were not gridded in finishing order, but the order from first round positions!

[bomber]

I thought i read that but thought I had read it wrong, thanks for clearing that up.

How many of you are planning to come down south for round 2?

[Frecklychimp]

Not 100% but 5 or 6 of us for definite, can't speak for everyone as there are a lot of SCT's in our area, will know more after this weekend :thumbsup:

[bomber]

Great, looking forward to it :D

[Robbiejuk]

read above!

we were not gridded in finishing order, but the order from first round positions!

Thats not strictly true. I think we were actually gridded up by the overall positions through qualifying , and not by the previous race results.

I have done some quick sums and this is definatly what was happening. Only reason I noticed it was that if it had been done as Chris said it should have been done then Mr Brook would have been on the front row in round 4 and I would have been on row 2, because in round three he came first, Andy came second and my car cut out on the final lap and I came third.

If I remember correctly, Rc-timing always used to sort out the following round grid by where you are in the overall qualifying standings, I am not sure you can actually change it in it either. In BBK you can choose how it sorts the grid for each round from ftd to previous heat position.

I think this might have been a software error rather than us making up our own grid positions. :)

Anyways it's water under bridge, hopefully it will be rectified by the round 2 :thumbsup:

[Dudders]

Yes, in BBK you can choose the grid for Fastest Overall, last heat result etc etc, whatever you want :thumbsup:

[Checa]

Can't really see the point of 6 minutes
I think qualifying is qualifying and should be against the clock :thumbsup:
It felt like we had 1 qualifier and 5 finals
I would prefer to start on time have 4 qualis and 3 finals and finish at reasonable time cos some of us are not local to any of this years tracks

This was my 1st National for SC and loved it :wub people were friendly definitely going to do some more :thumbsup:
Just a shame rain spoiled play at the end of the day :mad:

[graveltrap]

All of the qualifiers that i was in had a clean start, I do not remember any contact from the top four anyway!

Once the first corner was out of the way things settled down fairly quickly and that was that, it had no impact on me as far as I can tell, and I improved in every round.

The final start on the other hand was a complete mess I didn't even make the first corner before being hit and put on my lid!

6 minutes of racing is good, we have adopted it at club level since the beginning of the year. Anything that gives me more track time during the day is a good thing!

I do agree that I felt rushed all day, just grabbing a bite to eat from the club house was difficult to time, yet alone rebuilding a car if it had been broken. But with scheduled 7 races in each day for everyone something has to give. If numbers increase there is very little time to play with in the day...

Yes we did pretty much loose an hour due to that heavy shower on Sunday and the meeting's etc, it was right to ask the drivers what they wanted to do.

[1rcdad]

The start system is not fair for rounds 2,3,4,as if not on pole positio you have a handicap as the clock is not staggered ,it was racing not qualifying !!!

[1rcdad]

Even the pole man in rounds 2,3,4,was handicapped. As the clock started they still had to get round to the timing loop, so nobody had a full 6 minute qualifier after round 1.

[ironmangav]

I raced both classes,so if you think you were rushed of your feet with 7 races try 14.
My decision to do this anyway as the more i race the better i get.
Happy with the format and mass starts,makes the heats more interesting plus you have to mass start in the finals so its good practise in the heats to mass start.
Thats the point of the heats isnt it, to iron out any issues with car,starts ect so that when the final comes you are prepared.
Happy with the 6mins and the new format.:thumbsup:

[Dudders]

7 heats equates to around 30+ minutes down time when you take out your own race and marshall, which imho is ample time to charge and prep without a break between rounds.

[Frecklychimp]

Quick calcs... 7 heats is 37 mins between races without time getting from pits to track and back...

we had 5 heats on Sunday which gives 21 minutes between races without time between track and pits.

It really doesn't seem that long when you've checked results then need to change something on car, grab some food or go for a pee etc!

I'm glad it wasn't just me that felt we were rushing about all day... and you lot didn't have to negotiate with Brooky Snr grabbing your brand new kourse Kings and threatening to throw them in the field behind us cos i got last pair from shop! :woot:

Gav, hat's off to you running 2 cars, especially if doing it without a helper :thumbsup:

I don't think the grid start format qualifying will work at slightly narrower more technical 1/10th tracks unless there is plenty of room between grid and timing loop to get settled into positions before your clock starts. it may look fun but its not much fun if you get taken out by the pack or tangled on a crash in front of you when you are racing the clock and not each other in qualifying.

when starting together gridded on a straight even from standing you are not getting 1.5 seconds between trucks you would get with staggered starts.

You get 3 finals gridded for the photo shoots and first corner carnage, staggered starts work and are fair.

[JezT]

7 heats equates to around 30+ minutes down time when you take out your own race and marshall, which imho is ample time to charge and prep without a break between rounds.

I agree. Also I really appreciated the practice at gridded quallies - you normally only get practice at gridded starts 1 or 3 times at a race meeting (ie per week) - I was more calm and feel I learnt how to avoid (or cause:blush:) carnage at the start, by the final.

Everything good - bring on the 13th.

[graveltrap]

Question, how would the gridded starts have worked on the dirt track at Coventry were the loop is at the other end of the straight and is not crossed for nearly on a full lap?

Would that first lap have been counted?

[Hpi_guy]

I personally like this format, on another not is anyone else getting the forum full of the poll signs or is it just my phone?

[Robbiejuk]

Question, how would the gridded starts have worked on the dirt track at Coventry were the loop is at the other end of the straight and is not crossed for nearly on a full lap?

Would that first lap have been counted?


Yes that would have been the first lap. The reason it didn't count us on Sunday would have been because we would have crossed it under the minimum lap time and so it would have been not counted. :-)

[spyro]

Question, how would the gridded starts have worked on the dirt track at Coventry were the loop is at the other end of the straight and is not crossed for nearly on a full lap?

Would that first lap have been counted?


The laptop is set to either "first lap ignore" if the cars are gridded behind the loop or "first lap count" if the cars are gridded in front of the loop.

If the setting is set incorrectly then as Rob says the cars will hit the loop under the minimum lap time so the lap will not count anyway.

So in the case of the dirt track the first lap would count.