22 4.0
 

So eveyone is now doing 2 car types dirt and carpet apart from tlr so when do we reckon they will jump on the band wagon?

They already do really. You can only buy a dirt version and have to buy a laydown conversion to get a carpet car.

Yes but even that has now changed to a dirt laydown

I mean 2 separate cars

There are still the carpet laydown and the dirt laydown gearbox options (with the former being optimised for lower ride heights via the HRC front end mod and the special alloy rear hubs, the latter being run with the "kit" front end and rear hubs).

IMO the logical trend would be to try and create a modular chassis with easy to fit and inexpensive options to optimise for a variety of conditions rather than tailoring for specific track types and conditions. I think that this is broadly what Schumacher are trying to achieve with their new 2wd platform...

The first release of the laydown conversion is being discontinued though so unless you already have it your screwed

yeah its a shame for some folks, especially those that just run on carpet or indoor astro; I think their (TLR) reasoning is that that the dirt laydown conversion covers a wider range of track conditions than the original laydown (which is very challenging in anything but high grip conditions).

So its probably a good move overall by TLR. I've not seen the cost of the new conversion but I don't think you get the alloy rear hubs so if its the same price, its a poorer deal for the racer.

I would like to get a Dirt Laydown gearbox but they a) never seem to be in stock and b) are so expensive (similar cost to the Exotek alloy gearbox I think).

Yeah think they are the same price but with no alloy bit of a xxxx take

Most of the TLR team are running the dirt laydown on high grip.

@Allan - the UK or US TLR team? I've seen the US guys seem to run it all the time but wasn't sure about over here...

TLR Dirt laydown gearbox conversion is £149.99, the Exotek alloy laydown gearbox is just £84.95, not really too similar.....

I was referring to the dirt laydown gearbox itself, not the entire conversion, think it retails for about £60? So it would be about £20 or so difference (%age wise, a not insignificant difference but in monetary terms, not much difference). In the US, the difference is even less, around $10.

My point being that with the Exotek being all alloy construction, it seems good value in comparison but I don't know really how the Exotek compares in terms of positioning vs TLR Carpet Laydown and Dirt Laydown gearboxes.

Maybe you could offer some insight Darren?

If you are just comparing the gearbox cases, the Exotek also includes the motor plate, gear cover and carbon battery strap in that price too.. making it even better value.

Thanks Darren, it's more the on track performance I'm interested in - particular the Exotek vs TLR dirt laydown. Which, in your experience or opinion, performs the best in lower grip conditions?

Cheers.

Both teams. Ellis and Chris have been using dirt laydown on astroturf for quite a while.

Any ideas why?

They just prefer the way it handles. I've not tried it myself yet so difficult to comment.

No-one outside of the team has tried the dirt laydown yet and since the team drivers are also barred from using the Exotek version leaves no-one in the UK having tried both yet....

@Darren - Ahh ok, thanks for clarifying - much appreciated.

One way to screw over your resellers is to do things like this

http://www.tlracing.com/Products/Def...odID=TLR231064

Sounds like people will be holding off buying 22 3.0 if it's due April

whats due April I must be missing something on the TLR website?

It got pull said it was a 22 4.0 chassis

Both Ellis and Chris are using a different car to what is available aswell and have been for a couple of weeks

Different in what way?

In a 22 4.0 way :D

It's not for me to say if TLR are anything to go buy you'll see it some time never 👍👍👍

Got to be coming or why would the stop selling something they've only just brought out

http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachme...scontinued.jpg

http://www.horizonhobby.co.uk/autoonline/j29_tlr/j29_kits/tlr03013/tlr-22-4.html


http://www.horizonhobby.co.uk/autoon...22-4-black.jpg

Not really a shock
Annoying tho

As I sold my 3.0 a while ago instead of investing in one of the rather expensive laydown gearbox options and currently do not have a 2WD buggy, I cannot say that I am annoyed by TLR's announcement of the 4.0, which will likely not hit the shelves before May. Had they decided to give the 22T 3.0 the treatment they gave to the buggy, I most probably would not have gone for the Xray as quite a few of my racing buddies drive a fleet of TLR cars and trucks. If I had bought the 3.0 and put in one of those pricey gearboxes only recently, I would be annoyed for sure, though.
Other than that, TLR did a great job by addressing virtually everything I disliked on the 3.0. With the addition of the gear diff in th kit, they would have scored a 10/10 in my book. I had already thrown an eye on the Cougar KC, but now I seem to be crosseyed! :p

4.0 = 3.0 as it should have been from the start :(

Wonder how easy it is to swap from stand up to laydown

As long as your wires are long enough, this should basically not be a big issue. Of course, completing both gearboxes with internals and shock towers with shock mounts will speed things up quite a bit. I used to switch between the standard and the original lowrider gearbox on my B5M relatively often before deciding that the B5MLR did not work for me on outdoor tracks.

For us astro and carpet racers yes, but I can see the 3.0's usefulness for the substantially larger US medium grip clay community and the track conditions the TLR designers experienced when they developed the 3.0.
It is still a great car in lower grip conditions, as is my son's VBC Racing Firebolt that gathers dust in our cellar. I was surprised at how good that buggy was a really loose and bumpy dirt track. Times change, though, and some companies are faster to adopt than others.

nice looking car.

Being an old school racer and driving a xx that my dad made little changes too does all stuff he's talking about in the video actually make any difference or is all just bs

If you want to race competitvely, reduce your lap times and know how to find a good set-up for the surface you are running on, all these features will bring you a great step or even leap forward. Even if the car should not feel any faster at first, lap times don't lie. If you switch from an old-school XX to a mid motor car and run on a track with a decent amount on grip, you'll notice the difference instantly. Switching from a B5M to a YZ-2 for me was almost as big an improvement as converting my 1st gen B-Max2 to the MR version.

To sum things up: Properly designed laydown cars are a noticable improvement over std mid-motor cars, and all the features of the 4.0 improve adjustability and address the few design shortcomings the 3.0 used to have. I doubt that you'd be disappointed if you'd give the 4.0 (or any other big manufacturer's current 2WD) a try. Also, the current breed of cars is much more durable than anything before the original TLR 22, so it would be kind of you to send your classic XX into its well deserved retirement. ;)

Really like the look of this - mainly because I use to race Losi all the time back in the day and fancy some nostalgia :) anyone know if a gear diff is available before I put a deposit down?

I bought a 22 3.0 not that long ago and while of course it faster than my old xx (not by as much as you thibk) I'm wondering if I'd really notice any difference between a 3.0 and 4.0 I suspect not

There was some take a specific gear diff for the 22 3.0 in another thread so not sure if that would fit here too

On high-grip with a gear diff and once you adjusted your driving style I bet you will. You'll carry much more corner speed if you dare going through corners as fast as the car is capable. Some of it will come naturally from the car, the other part is up to the driver. My TLR driving buddies were happy when they switched from the 2.0 to the 3.0, but I could still hold the faster ones at bay with my YZ-2. There were approx. 0.8 sec between the hot laps of my 3-gear YZ-2 and my 3.0 on a tight indoor track (Racing Arena Limburg), and my experience was the same on astroturf. When my buddies switched to the delrin laydown gearbox, things were as before I had the laydown advantage, i.e. the faster guys were faster than me again. Other more talented and younger drivers experienced similar things with their Kyoshos when switching from the RB6 to the RB6.6, i.e. returning to the front of the fast pack from just trying to hang on.
That being said, the 3.0 will still be a good car when the 4.0 is released and more than capable in the right hands, just not as fast on a high-grip track. If there is lots of sand on your track or it does not dry up, the 4.0 with a stand-up gearbox may or may not be faster, but more adjustable. With a stand-up gearbox, cars in my experience accelerate better than laydown cars, but are considerably slower through the corners.
Like it or not, today it is about having the right car and the right set-up for the right track, much more so than when we still used to run Holeshots on virtually every circuit on the continent.