SCT Future
 

Sorry to be a doom sayer , but where do we stand ? SCT seems to be losing ground and a great class would be lost. i am a late comer to the class, and maybe i missed the peak , but i see a viable and fun class that is head and shoulders above buggys in the fact they are fun and handle like dogs .
In the US they thrive and i hope to race next year in Texas , but uk it is dwindling? How can we get bashers to race and keep the momentum ? We all probably own other classes should we bring the SCT to other races for a final blast at tea time ? i got into this for fun as teen , SCT looks to hold the spirit ? Your thoughts please to how we keep the dream alive ?

Handle like dogs??? The modern 2wd's are all based on stretched and widened versions of the current w2wd buggies, the newer 4wd's are 1/8 e buggies tweaked to suit the class specs. Ok so maybe not as nimble as a buggy but hardly 'dog' like!
As for the future, try getting clubs to support the class........most won't but some great ones do but the trouble is there's no glamour over here like in the states

Sct
 

I don't believe its loosening popularity dude people come and go that's the nature of the class..
We've always had a steady turnout of numbers, and I believe if anything things are looking promising.

I think the problem, at least from what I have seen is you don't know what you want the racing to be like.

A lot has been said about the fun and relaxed racing. Well from the two races I have been at it has been nothing like that with more drama and infighting than I have ever seen at a buggy race from club all the way up to national.

I am not a buggy A finalist by any means except at club level but have raced at regional and National buggy races and know how to get round the track and avoid collisions on a race track. Except it would appear at an SCT race, in all the 6 finals I have been in every single one I have ended up last by the second corner due to take outs by a ridiculously bunched up grid and the bumper car nature of racing. I am sure it is me being cautious or something as I don't like hitting other cars/trucks but it is really getting me down. I enjoyed the qualifying and did around what I would expect to do but left both race events with a really negative feeling about the racing.

If you want competitive racing then folks need to treat it as such with refs not just for the A final and penalties for takeouts or at least a change of style.

I race SCT at a local track for fun with no prizes or championships and the way I feel currently I think that is where I will limit it to and leave the proper racing to buggies.

I enjoyed sunday. Made the A final with my ancient Ansmann C.O.R.E truck which is really showing it's age against the more modern Short course trucks. I thought it was a good turnout to.

The 2wd A finals were not too bad for me anyways. Bit of boring and bashing but I didn't receive any major takeouts personally. Our referee was the politest ref in the world to.

But I had a good day, playing with trucks surrounded by my mates having a good laugh. Now tempted to get myself a SC5M as they looked really good on sunday and do next years series!

The nationals are getting dirtier every race, and rivalries have formed, I had to take a step back and re evaluate why I was doing it as I had started to not enjoy it after Mendip. I was trying too hard for the win, as were others and it was taking the fun away.

At A1 I went with a different attitude to winning and was there for fun and enjoyed my racing again (after I fixed it several times) But when you do get blatantly hacked its fairly normal to want to give them a little smack back as a thank you.

I have said it before time and again, the rules for buggy racing just cannot be applied to short course, and why should they be, after all they are not buggies.

Why cant we sample different strategies at a practice meet to work out what can work with for the class. For example, rolling starts? Side by side starts. extra for finals over qualifying.

I have never liked the points for quali as personally im better at driving when we all go together, ya know like a RACE!

Its not a BRCA class and as such does not need to be ran to any hard set of rules so why not tweak them?

Its already open for bashers as there is no control tyre? All they need is a Transponder and enough batteries to get them through the day.

Maybe replace the vintage buggy class which had no entries with a different class? (examples, RTR -CUP any bone stock RTR trucks can enter - 3s Lipo class? 8th Buggy class? 10th buggy class? 8th superlight class?? RALLY CARS)

There are many many options available to make it more enjoyable.

By calling it "National" means its a bit more serious than a club meeting... and maybe going from basher, to a so called National is part of the problem
why not (as sw region have done this year) run regional truck events on the 4wd sundays from the local clubs as a stepping stone to the nationals.., as above I think sct is a great class and is gaining popularity, and can be great fun to drive

Good to see some positivity. Great comments about tweaking the rules and opening up to more racers/bashers . I like the rolling start idea like Nascar ha ha. Q times i think will always suit some drivers over others and as i have yet to compete in the current format have no comment . Looking forward to Iceman over winter and a winter shakedown. Roll on Next years nationals .

what Justin said! :thumbsup:

We are still a young and developing class both in the manufacturers development of the trucks and how race them.

Don't forget the especially with the 4wd trucks we are hustling basically 1/8th Rallycross buggies (in weight and size) around 1/10th scale high grip tracks. Again a modern 4wd truck is very different to one that is a couple of years old.

As race director on Sunday I spent a lot of time watching the racing very, very closely. And while there was a few instances of "red mist in short trousers" most of the incidents where caused by accidents collecting other drivers on the way past.

Closed wheel racing tends to lead drivers to take a few more risks than they would with a buggy, especially going for that gap that quite frankly isn't there!

BUT this thread shouldn't be allowed to turn into a thread about bad driving, rivalries and driving etiquette. There are all extremely important don't get me wrong but they exist in ALL classes of RC racing and full size motorsport.

We now need to adjust the rules/series/racing to accommodate the class to attract even more drivers and get the buggy drivers to take it as seriously as we do :lol:.

The National title you are referring too as being more serious is obviously an inherited opinion from Buggy racing; which this is not as I mentioned. Its called the nationals because we race in different regions, there are some that take it very very seriously and most of the other not so. I was the former and since converted to the latter, much like a travelling club as opposed to a full blown BRCA "National" event?

After racing on Tuesday night at Silverstone properly with a 2wd buggy I can honestly say the standard of driving in A and B finals at truck nationals is better, I got smashed into way more than I ever have at any truck event. In trucks as was said, most incidents are caused by collecting other crashed cars which is inevitable when we are normally twice the size of the cars the tracks were intended for?

We need to work on changing the attitudes of the "sheeple" so that they understand Short Course for what it is and not see it as a "support class" or second rate to buggies.

Trucks are so different to buggies to the point where the similarities end with the fact they are both Radio Controlled vehicles. They way you drive them, the way you set them up are all different, so why shouldn't the events be ran to a different format to accommodate this?

I've found that the SC nationals are pretty dirty, someone bumps you and you try and keep calm and think it's just racing, but when you do it back they play hell. Maybe if I qualified higher it might be different :)

Over the years I have watched many a SC race, heat and on Sunday actually participated in one.
The driving standards are terrible, now in a class where people are new to the sport I can understand this, but even at the top of each class it was pretty poor.
The main problem is that people look at SC as rubbing is racing, this doesn't mean use people as your breaks, or to get around a corner.

The idea of having referee's is a good one and should be used to implement driving standards.
With regards to setting them up, they have four wheels and shocks... To say they are different to setup or drive is a load of tosh. Like every form of Motorsport you have to adapt. The body acts as a parachute so you don't jump as far, the cars have a high roll centre due to the wheels, weight is up high so you respect the corners more.
It's still driving an RC car....

The method you have has the basis to be a good series, install driver etiquette and you will have some close enjoyable racing for the future.

not at all "an inherited opinion from buggy class" my point being once you run a national series by its nature it becomes more serious,Ive raced 12th,10th on and off-road and micro nationals and they are very serious about rules and driving standards

I doubt we'd get the truck back in the mid east regionals, as they was already dwindling down in the previous year. Also they would have to follow brca electrics rules, that why vintage was low in attendance.
..............

Trucks do seem more fun and I'm tempted but would mean racing at a different club.

My club are stopping trucks but I am not stopping the nationals as from now on its the only time I will get to use the kit Ive spent a fair few quid in acquiring.

Spenner, regarding the setup and driving I never meant quite as literally as you took it LOL. Your right though you do have to respect the corners more due to the high COG which is what makes it different as its this that I was eluding too.

Referees are great in theory but only if they actually do anything about the incidents on track, if nothing happens there's no point having them?

Most of the truck drivers are not buggy drivers (some are I know) but it does appear its those with experience in 2wd buggies that feel the standards are awful more so than the less experienced truck only drivers of which there are many. I agree the standards could be better but this will only come with enforcement of rules, penalties for hacking and experience of racing close up; one of the reasons I said about doing more races and less quali - this could help as everyone will get more time wheel to wheel which means you get to know who your racing (style wise). Also if the points in these races count towards round total then drivers would be more inclined to go easy. "IMO"

This is at the crux of it all, totally agree.

To be clear, I did not consider myself ever taken out vindictively unlike a couple of others that day. I was just a repeated victim of 10 high speed 4WD arriving at the same corner at the same time. We really need a bigger separation on the grid and as Spenner mentioned a generally greater awareness of other trucks around. A bit of side to side rubbing is fine as it does not take anyone out but barreling into someone as they brake in front of you is pretty rude and if it happens you should stop and wait for them to be marshaled. Treat others as you would be treated yourself. As was mentioned by Legend Racer (great name btw) the temptation is to do the same in revenge and possibly to someone else, that way lies a crash fest with no credibility as a national race series.

Agreed, your right about the credibility aspect, although I am not sure if the organisers intended it to have credibility as a "nationals" series, as it has always been billed as a fun series that just happens to be sort national geographically; maybe its this aspect which makes people fight harder than they would at club level and is leading to a lot more crashing action as a result.

I did the oOple invernational for the first time this year and it was awesome, as right from the word go it was all about the fun, this took the edge off and made it much much more "fun". Could we learn something from this perhaps. Is the series in its current form having a bit of an identity crisis?

I've never raced SC trucks myself, but I've always been interested in the class and I do enjoy watching full scale short course.

From just what I've seen, I don't think it's getting any weaker - rather the hype from the initial boom (when every manufacturer, RTR or race kits, stuck some bumpers on their stadium truck chassis and chucked one on sale) has tapered off slightly. Once a smaller manufacturer realises they aren't shifting a sufficient amount of units, of course they'll eventually discontinue the car. It's survival of the fittest, just like any category - the cars with the most R&D, factory support and manufacturer pedigree will be the ones that shift the most units. The grids might look less diverse, but it's not completely unexpected in my eyes.

Regarding driving standards, I've only seen it and never experienced it - but it's no different to how it is in real life. Deliberate take-outs are highly questionable, but normal short course racing does go beyond a bit of a rub here and there. That's not to say the scale variant should mimic reality all the time - if a vast majority of drivers make their voices heard, basic contact rules can be enforced at each club, or nationally.

To be fair the racing standards at this years events in general have been no worse than any other year I have seen them or raced in them, although when someone at the top of the tree deliberately hangs back for a whole lap to then wipe you out (twice) and has a race buddy also deliberately t-bone you while being lapped also AND then rams you off the track AFTER the race has finished, then that gets very questionable indeed, especially from a guy who "had" a lot of respect from the admiring racers who watch the A finals from the sidelines over the years, but, thankfully that is just one sorry individual and that does not tar everyone with the same reputation....

Some of the racing this season has been epic and as close as any class could ever ask for, yes a little rubbing here and there, but that is accepted in SC as part of the class.

I agree with the comments above that it is the "national" series, not because it is geographically spread but because it is the highest level of this type of racing in the UK, those looking for something less hardcore should look towards regional or club racing (if it exists in their area) or dare I say, bashing. If you are preparred to tour the country to race against the best the country can offer in that class, then like it or not you are racing in a series that has a certain degree of serious competition. If you can add fun into that mix too then you are on to a huge winner.

I have been taken out countless times this season myself, some on purpose, some by complete accident, some by friends or even team mates and others by total strangers, I have even caused a few myself no doubt too, but overall it has not taken away the enjoyment of the overall season (until they start to become more blatant and occurring almost every run - but one idiot cannot ruin a whole season). I do hope we have some dummies and a pram full of toys for the end of season raffle at Silverstone, they with go well with the other prizes......

This is my first, and maybe my last year. I've only managed two events and to be honest my heart just isn't in it any more, due really to the driving standards. I've been racing on and off since late '89 and the standard of driving I have come across is among the worst in all those years that I've encountered. EVERY corner when some one is is coming up to you, they just can't wait, "sod using the electronic brake I'll use the truck in front, it's a lot easier" is their attitude. From what I've seen, the drivers these days have no patience at all and WILL NOT wait for you to move to one side and will move you them selves. Now I'm not a mardy driver by any means and I can take and give lot of rubbing and stuff but what I've come across this year is really beyond belief and goes far beyond rubbing.

Dont get me wrong, there has been a fair bit of that in SC this year (third party brakes as I call it), but it has not been any worse than any other season really...

So being taken out on around 50% of every corner taken is normal?

I've never seen it that bad, even though I don't experience it first-hand. In real short course, a 50% contact rate through every corner sounds pretty normal!

If it really is that bad, how much of it is deliberate and how much of it can be attributed to generally clumsy driving?

I'm sure it's just clumsy, but that clumsiness is down to them not waiting a second or two, so like I say it's down to impatience.

Don't get me wrong I expect contact, I expect it in the corner but not that bad that they shove you off the race track and tip you over several times a race

Starting racing the sc nationals last year and only this year being my 4th year of racing I can understand your points Paul. Qualifying from the 'lower' heats can be hard work as the void of experience/ability/ etiquette compared to those in the higher seeded heats is massive BUT the series is promoted for all abilities so that's to be expected.
The same goes for the guys at the front of the A finals to those at the back, although generally cleaner the ability gap is quite large.
Personally I don't think the std of driving is any worse or better than any other class I race from 1/8 to micro, club or regional/national level. There's always going to be clean and dirty drivers it's just one of those things you just have to find out who they are

I don't think the sc nationals do particularly bad for numbers averaging between 40-60 trucks per meeting considering the travelling involved (im up to around 1400 miles so far this season!), it's an expensive hobby as a basher to start with then factor racing gear,travelling costs,spares,tyres etc etc and it puts it out of reach for some or the interest of others.

You'll never make sc as popular as buggies over here, for starters 1:1 sc is an American thing to start with, no manufacturers are sending their big name star drivers to race the nationals (thank God cause I'd never see another A final ! Lol) and promote the class so there's no glamour...........Enjoy it for what it is, a niche class and hope your local club keeps supporting it because if those clubs drop the class we're dead in the water with only the nats for a chance to race the trucks.

Steve

I think what I can't get my head around is by how much things have changed since i used to do the truck nationals in the mid to late 90's (in the days when they were what we now call Stadium Trucks). They were fun meetings with drivers of all abilities BUT the general driving standard was a lot higher than nowadays...maybe it's just the modern brushless motors that are too quick for people now?

Trouble is Justin, like myself you had a reasonably good 1st year, you invested a lot of £££ into new kit etc etc and you started the new season hoping to better last year's results and like myself,you have, however that hope/expectation puts a lot of self imposed pressure on your shoulders so the lows feel a lot lower even though you've done better on average.
I can't say I've enjoyed this year as much as last year but that's down to my own expectations and stupidity trying to run both classes..........something I won't be doing next year!

I think it's because SC trucks encourage contact, whereas anything with open wheels obviously doesn't. It doesn't necessarily attract dirtier drivers, but some can take it too far and some can misjudge.

Contact is a difficult thing. The only way you can get clear-cut rules is by banning all contact... which isn't going to work out. Everyone will have a different view of what's deliberate and what's accidental, and a different view of the line between a simple rub and a something a lot more malicious. You can't police it perfectly. Someone will always either feel hard done by or will be appealing a penalty, but that's just something that's unavoidable in a racing environment. Even the most relaxed guys will get emotional if things don't go their way, especially if another driver helps them along a bit - but a bit of self-control can go a long way to minimise the occurrence of such incidents.

Spot on Steve, that's why I had to change the approach, and some of the other comments here are really apt too. I agree with Darren too on his points, I don't think the organisers intended it to be a full on NATIONAL but it is what is and I suppose that's inevitable.

The comments about just holding fire are right on the money too, as I changed my attitude at A1 and I personally caused a LOT less incidents on track, to the point where I actually never once took out a car on the first lap, apart from when Lewis HACKED me clean off the track after he was pissed that I passed him before the first corner, so I did reciprocate on this occasion. But this all goes back to the comments about the hunger for the win, bringing too many red mist moments.

Some drivers are worse than others, I am no angel and have smashed a fair few off including the team boss (Darren at Boughton) It wasnt intentional, just differing lines and a gap that disappeared by the time I got to it (see the video here however I have come a long way over the course of this year, in terms of wheel to wheel racing, and that only comes with practice.

I no longer have a local club that supports the class and due to the all the kit I now have its important to me that I still have a series to race in which is why I am so vocal about changing it up to suit the class better.:thumbsup:

Whilst looking around for some ideas on how other countries/rc racing format their racing I found this article on RC Car Action. Interesting to see its not a new thing for people to suggest some changes.

http://www.rccaraction.com/blog/2011...-is-all-wrong/

Any thoughts chaps?

Well I've read it twice now and apart from a fair chunk of him slagging off the format we use now there's about 10% of an idea and a huge cliffhanger.
How can you get from doing 5 or 2 rounds to being put in an appropriate final? Via you fastest time of the day?, single best qualifying position etc? There'd be a lot of relying on luck in such a setup.

Think about the present system you need to do well in only 50% of the qualifiers to be assigned your appropriate final, something both you and I should be grateful for after A1a!. If it was 75% you'd have dropped down to at least the B and so would I with the 2wd

Say it was based on your best heat, you may do 4 q runs and get beaten by someone who does 1 q run, would you feel aggrieved?, I think so.

Now to the finals,you get a result based on your best 2 out of 3, so that allows you at least one bad run........you may break the car,get punted off etc etc.

Now take for instance the micro nationals, only the guys in the A get 3 legs best 2 to count,the mere mortals get one final.......anything goes tits it's game over

1/8 scale club racing.....3-4 q rounds and 1 x 18-25 min final, same as above anything goes tuts.......game over

There's a lot to be said for the present format mate!

I can see his point, we race anyway in the heats, we don't really qualify so why not just have six races and not bother with finals.

The only down side I see is that you could be in a heat with worst drivers that could really compromise your day, unless a new heat list was printed at the end of each round, so by the end of the day the best drivers should be all racing together.
Maybe be put into heats in championship positions for the first round? Newcomers in order they booked in?
Don't give points per race but actual finishing positions overall, so you don't get points in your race but in 2wd or 4wd etc based on the final end of round listing.

It's all a lot of ,messing around for race control though printing a new heat list each round.

I agree, qualifying is racing.......ever had someone let you through because your the quicker truck........I very much doubt it, more like they'll try to block you and any pass even though you may be ahead by several seconds according to the clock. Half the time lapees make it hard enough to pass,this isn't just the sc nats it's from the ground up where discipline isn't enforced!.

So we dip qually and race, then heats are rearranged on your previous performance, how do you propose a driver climbs the ladder to get in the higher heats? , how do you account for breakage/ malfunctions/ being nerfed off the track?. You can't have a 'best of' in a knockout style pyramid, the only people that's likely to benefit are the top few drivers, although they won't really benefit as they'll still end up heading the field.

I must admit the idea of having a larger spaced grid is a good idea and would reduce the first corner melee, on the other hand a rolling start would be unpoliceable, it's hard enough for a ref to police a standing start never mind 10 moving cars.

I believe the present format gives everyone as good a chance to do as well as they possibly can, but, as has been mentioned previously do you want an easy going rule set or a strict, no contact format...........remember it works both ways

Climbing the "ladder" is easy, if you finish in top 10 in race 1, as all the top 10 are together you should be in with the better drivers after one race, unless you breakdown or get broke by someone else in which case you try again in race two, now worse that it already is where you can be stuck in a heat of drivers not of your ability and you're stuck there for 1/2 the day

So say for instance your in the top heat and you have an issue on lap 1 and that knocks you to last place overall where do you start in the next round?, would finishing 1st in heat 4 put you in 10th in heat 3 for example?

Take for example Justin's and my weekend at A1 we both had 2 last places overall due to breakages. I'm not sure on Justin's exact placings but the 2 remaining successfully runs put him into the A and the same for me with a 3rd and 4th overall.

I've done the qualifying from the lower heats last year and most of time it was from the back of those heats, if your the better driver it's down to you to get to the front of that heat so you start 1st next time and get clear track to exploit and you get 4 chances to do it and only requires a 50% success rate

It would all depend where you finish overall!
Look at it like this, a round of 2wd would be like one race, you couldn't however have 40 trucks on the track at the same time for obvious reasons, so it would be all based on where you finish overall, which would be based on how quick you went around. You may be in heat 2 but have the second quickest time, that would but you second on the grid in the top heat the following round.

You're looking at it from a finals point of view, in this way we wouldn't have finals, just 6 or 7 races all getting their own points.

It's like having 6 championship rounds at each venue, each race is individual to the championship and doesn't effect the next race as such.
This also means that if you're at a venue with more than one track or layout you could change that during the day too as it's a different championship round.
It also means if you have to leave early, maybe due to work, family commitments or breakages, you can still get some rounds in that count rather than it not even be worth the trip (obviously if you break you've already made the trip)

If you finish last tough, maybe that's a championship round you would drop, we would all have those days.
But working up for your next round would be easier as like i say it's like one big race with 40 cars and you only have to get up to the top 10 to be in with the better drivers (I'm sure a proper 40 car race would be great fun if there was room on the tracks:) )
If you win a race with a time good enough for a top ten why should you have to race against lesser drivers next heat too?

Sct future
 

I'm planing to race sct national next season I been racing sct at club level we have 10 at most meeting our last meeting we couple more turn up so we had 2 heats off sct also there a few people talking about one for next season where they could get one as club point of view sct in taking off ! They also asking if anyone was saleing one I said to look on here or eBay

So basically what we have now but heat placement is swapped around?

So how do you plan to score it ? Eg 40 trucks at least 40 points difference between 1st and last, one bit of bad luck and you could drop 40 points in the extreme, 2 bits of bad luck 80 points in the extreme.......... championship over in 10 minutes!

Doesn't matter how it's scored, its the same for everyone, we all have races where we break down or finish last for whatever reason, we'll all lose those points here or there, but like there is now there would be dropped scores, this means you can just drop a couple of races in one day not a wholes meeting, which should keep the championship going longer