BRCA Micro EGM proposals
 

I'm looking for someone to second the following proposals for the 2010 EGM

1. "Delete rule 7.16"

Reasoning behind this rule - the majority of drivers have been running 2.4gig, which should not be able to interfere with anyones race. This rule may have been relevant in the days before 2.4gig, but is no longer the case. It puts an extra administration and cost burden on the host club, and is a relic of an earlier age in some scale racing.

2 replace rule 7.16 with

"Prior to the rack being open all non 2.4gig transmitters, to be placed transmitters must be removed from the pit area and placed in

designated transmitter compound. Except when racing, transmitters must remain in within the compound until the track is declared closed for the day. Transmitters may be removed by individual competitors at the race directors discretion to allow for new electrical items to be checked and setup. – provision for charging transmitters will also be made in this area"

3 "Only Hard cased lipos that are on the BRCA Approved battery list maybe used. Any non-hard cased lipos or Nimh battery may be used"

Reasoning behind this rule - This is a rule with the future of the Micro series in mind. Some clubs will not allow non-hard cased lipos to be run, others insisting they be on the BRCA list. This put the dirvers who attend those clubs at an unfair disadvantage when it comes to the nationals. People who race at clubs that only allow lipos from the BRCA, and break this rule, risk being banned from that club. I know of two people who have done this,and who have continued to do this, putting me in a very awkward situation with the club. Rule 1.11 would need ammending to bring it into line.

4 Replace

"All cars running in the 2WD (Two Wheel Drive) class must be RWD (Rear Wheel Drive). Only
the rear wheels may be connected to the cars transmission; the front wheels must rotate freely in

both directions."

in rule 1.1 with

"All cars running 2wd must be RWD, and must have been intended to be 2wd at first purchase, whatever modifications may have been made afterwards"

Reasoning - converted 4wd cars have an obvious advantage over their 2wd cousins, which break the spirit, if not the rules, of the race at present.

4 Rule 3.12 The track liaison officer to ensure the hosting clubs are well aware of the requirements for hosting a national round.

Reasoning, the hosting clubs may not be fully understanding of the requirements of them when holding a round, or may not fully understand the meaning behind some of the requirements, ie fenced off areas, the main straight being at the far side of the rostrum, etc.

change rule 6.8 to

"Provision must be made for the ‘official shop’. Only the ‘official’ shop will be able to trade ateach round. The role of the 'official shop' to be put out to tender, for a period of a 1 to 3 year deal. Choice of 'official shop' to be made by the BRCA Micro Exec, within 30 days of the EGM. Reasons for the choice of 'official shop' to be released on the BRCA Micro website."

Reasoning, to open up what could be a potential monopoly to competition.

"rule 6.9 Marshall must be in a s suitable position so as not to obstruct the view of any major part of the track, ie a corner or jumps. The race director or any relevant BRCA official may more or alter any unsuitable marshalling position."

Change rule 7.4.

"

Qualifying will consist of 3 rounds of qualifying heats. Points will be awarded for each round. Tied positions within a round will receive equal points. The points for subsequent positions will be displaced by the number of tied drivers involved. A driver's best 2 scores will be added together to give a qualifying position. Ties will be eliminated firstly by using discard points and secondly, by use of the fastest overall time."

Delete rule 7.6 - This rule gives the advantage to the person who has already qualified ina better position, and penalizes others, who may stand in a certain postion for medical reasons ie vision problems, height etc.

replace 9.3. with

"Meetings will consist of 1 round of practise, 3 rounds of qualifying and 2 rounds of finals."

Now my eyes hurt and I need my sleep after reading through all the current rules.

O dear, good luck. Don't think you will get anywhere with these :lol:

Seconded :lol:

Is there such a thing as "thirded"?

I shall Google...

lipos
 

Oh I know why on the lipos, as the people who attend the EGM all race at clubs where this isn't an issue, and couldn't give a stuff about anyone else, but this is preventing the micro scene from growing. How can I recommend any lipos at the mo' that aren't hard-cased? Do I just carry on saying "be carefull with your lipos or they might go bang and cause all kinds of damage?". Not having a set of lipos on an approved list is irresponsible knowing what we know and this won't affect you if you don't allready run hard-cased lipos, it just means that peopel who do or who will want, have a list of approved cells, at most, this will affect 3-4 manufacturers, who may not even submit their cells.

Besides, I hear lots of "that'll never go through" but as per usual, no reasons or explanations why.

Do you have any understanding of the Electric board and how the EB works Sarah?

The Bike section of the BRCA do not have a "batterys only from the EB list" rule either. Does that mean that Dez and co are also "irresponsible"??

You are the only person I know who has an issue with needing cells on an EB list, and that is only so that you can run LiPo at the Stafford club. you will therefore have to forgive me if I dont change my stance solely to resolve your issue.

The EB list is not a safe list of cells that wont go pop, it is a list that is available to sections that want to use it to ensure conformity.

To quote the EB section of the BRCA website:
Remember, the majority of rules within our handbook, over all classes, are relative to National Series events only. If a certain club are insistent that they want micros to run LiPos that are on an EB list (bearing in mind that such a list doesn't even exist) then that club surely is not worth your time and efforts.

Sarah, stop this nonsense about hard case lipo's in micro's. It's totally rediculous since you are the only person who have ever wanted this. Aircraft, helicopters, bikes, micro's, etc. doesn't run with hard cased lipo's. There is, as far as I know, only 1 available hard case lipo available (LRP) that would even fit in the cars and it costs £47 each. If anything, that alone will kill the class. Now go bark up another tree, you are wasting your time.

clubs
 

My club is 1 mile down the road from me. They only allow lipos that are on the BRCA approved list.

Another club, Stoke, only allow hard cased lipos.

Dudley are okay with any lipos, but that at least 30mins travel for me.

Tamworth allow lipos, that's an hour's travel for me, and they don't race all year round.

Just what is your objection to this? It won't affect you in any way at all, yet it does affect me and it affects others at the various clubs that only allow hard cased lipos.

It is just a case of "I'm alright Jack" isn't it.

trees
 

Frogger, I would be more than happy to pay the £47 for the LRP lipos. Trakpower do hard cased lipos too, Much-More is looking into it, and I heard a rumour about Orion.

I'm the only person who has wanted this, as other people who attend my club (and have been told by me) ARE using non-hardcased lipos, and don't care that they risk being banned from the club.

This isn't nonsense Frogger. I have mentioned that only hard-cased lipos by on a BRCA list, so again I need to stress that if you aren't running a hard-cased lipo, it won't affect you in the slightest, yet still people don't seem to want to acknowledge this?

Good for you, I am not when a £6 zippy lipo is good enough.

No they don't, not for micro's. Have you spoken with Trakpower recently?

Really, wow, some good info you have there.

So you are suggesting the micro section allow all battery types regardless but create an 'Approved List' with a single LRP hard cased pack on? And you can't see why it's rediculous? :wtf:

Not that I race micro, but the reason that the EB list insist on hard cased lipo's, is that it reduces the risk of puncture of the cells, so safety. As for quoting what the BMFA allow, isn't exactly appropriate either.

As for condeming his proposals, being that is all that they are, unless they are seconded, they won't go forward, but why not just leave it at that?

There is a whole lot of history in this DCM. Sarah has been banned from the micro forum and now continuing the nonsense over here. :thumbdown:

Sarah, what are the clubs' reasons for these decisions?

But all the user has done, is posted some proposals, just leave it like that, rather than drawing it out into what will end up, being a petty argument.

I would of thought, if it is for 10th scale, makes purchasing simpler, and also, if saloons are run, there is a greater risk of puncture, compated to most buggies.

reasons
 

It's a saferty issue mainly.

The Stafford club we're using regular lipos, then out venue found and said no. A compromise situation was reached where hard cased lipos on the BRCA approved list would be allowed, more so for insurance reasons I'm led to believe.

The Stoke club are simply playing it safe. They've had various incidents over the past few years we're nimh cells have gone bang, and they're not wanting the same kind of thing to happen with lipos.

Frogger - Cosie banned me for personal reasons, you'll have to ask him what they are, as he won't give me an honest answer.

If you read the current thread on the micro forums, you'll see that he is still having a dig at me, and others are outright flaming in their posts.

A lipo bag will prevent problems when you're charging lipos, but isn't much help when that same lipo is in your car and is involved in a bad crash and goes bang.

You don't need hard-cased lipos in planes, as they aren't put under the same stresses as cars put them under. As for the bikes not using them yet, the bikes section is relatively new. They may still go down the hard-cased lipo route.

It also needs to be said, that the Bedworth club used to run lipos in the Carisma / Recoil class, but stopped them after an incident with a lipo, earlier in the year.

Not having this list is setting the BRCA micro section up for a big financial payout when something bad happens.

It's for 1/18th scale and only 1 mafufacturer on the planet makes 1 model of hard cased lipo that only fits very few of the current 1/18th scale cars.

These rules are a bit nuts.

manufacturers
 

Don't you think more manufacturers would make hard-cased lipos once there was the demand?

Right now, anyone at my club or a club with similar rules is at a distinct disadvantage whenit comes to the nationals simply because they can't run the equipment that they would be running at a the nationals. How can any of those people get any setup time when they can't use the appropriate equipment, and have to shell out more money buying nimh's which, are only going to become more scarce as time goes on.

Actually, it isn't the loading that causes issue's with LiPo, it is under/over voltage that is one cause, and the other, is cell damage. The BMFA are very lax in that rule, given that the use of soft LiPo makes a light plane, light, simple as that, no other reason.

No section has to use the EB, but certain sections have adopted the rules, as it allows the transfer of gear from one class to another, far simpler. The bike section would of started running lipo before the EB formulated a list, which is designated really, for 10th scale use. If the bike section wished, and the micro section, they could task the EB with formulating some general rules regarding cells and motors.

Yeah sure, so that is you and who else that want one? :lol:

How can you puncture a lipo when everyone is running Shark's which are a tub chassis:eh?:

I dunno, there is 4wd and 2wd chassis, as I said, I don't race Micro, so can't really comment on that aspect.

I run an m18tpro? :bored:

Thank you DCM, I think that's one of the most sensible posts I've seen on the subject.

You'd have to ask the various club why they don't like non-hardcased lipos.

Personally I've killed about 3 soft lipos in the past year. One, I dropped some solder on it at Tamworth, so didn't want to risk running it. Second, something went wrong with the motor or connections which led to smoke coming from my car. Can't remember what happened to the third one, but in all that time that I've been runing micro lipos, I've been running 1/10th TC hard cased lipos, with no problems.

Also, Trakpower has new hard cased micro lipos on they way, as part of their dark series, but they're yet to be released.

All the people who are currently asking me for lipos in the shop.

Hard case lipo's will just raise prices and turn people away. As the class stands you can race at a very competitive level for a small amount of money in comparison with other classes.

I've heard all this before so im off back to UKMRC

Can no-one read? You can still race your cheap lipos, putting everyone's safety at risk.

Well, if you have clubs, that have rules which stipulate that only hard cased lipo's are to be used, how would the section cope, if they were to have a national?

I mean, if, as a section, you are looking into LiPo safety, then you got to be looking at people over charging/incorrectly charging of LiPo, and also the fitment or correctly setup up Votlage cut-off in the car, that is careless of whether they are hard/soft LiPo's. Once that risk has been assessed, then you could assess the risk of puncture in that class of racing. As the section is also covered by the BRCA insurance, if an accident were to happen, then the insurance company would more than likely want to see a risk assessment before it would contemplate a claim.

But you don't count coz you're weird :p:lol::lol:

I have only ever seen 1 micro lipo go up in smoke and that was user error 5 AMPS on nimh setting:thumbdown:

/Yawn

Would you believe it, im with Danny and Carl on this one :D I never thought that would happen :D lol

Steve, if the BRCA were in a position where risk assessments had to be done before any claims AND that assessment would show a risk in using softcase lipos I am 110% sure that the BRCA would be onto me and Dez like a shot.

Joffrey, will we be seeing you and your M18TPro at Tamworth in January? You know that you and Mrs.O are always welcome :)

Sarah, you are well within your rights to propose that you have an EB list. Good luck....

And that's where you keep going wrong in insisting that just because a lipo is on the list it will be safer than one that isn't. As someone else has quoted from the EB this isn't the reason the list was created.

I have not had any problems with my mucho cheapo micro lipos but have had a 'legal and therefore safe' trakpower swell up, and in that situation it being hard cased made no difference to the outcome.

I do worry for these clubs what will happen when their venues find out that even lipos on the list aren't safe if they are mistreated (and no I didn't mistreat mine!)

I did come up with a proposal last year when you raised this - did you investigate it any further? Personally I've taken some time out from Micro racing which is why I'm not going to be making any proposals for the EGM.

[QUOTE=c0sie;319586]/Yawn

Would you believe it, im with Danny and Carl on this one :D I never thought that would happen :D lol





WOW :o

....

Wow indeed, Cris, Carl and Danny actually agree on something what a momentous occasion.

I would say as long as you treat the Lipo battery with care and respect then it should be safe enough to use otherwise they wouldnt be sold, especially if children are involved in the sport.

I run the overlander 800mah and they are awesome at about £12 each. Would be gutted if i was told i could only run £47 hard cased ones.

It's happened before and it might just happen again :thumbsup:

I'll put ths in capitals below, so that the hard of reading can fully understand it.

ONLY HARD CASED LIPOS WOULD NEED TO BE ON THE BRCA LIST, NON-HARDCASED LIPOS OR "SOFT" CASED LIPOS, WOULD NOT NEED TO BE ON THE LIST, AND YOU COULD CARRY ON USING THEM.

FFS - Am I speaking another language or something?

Actually, that don't make much sense, I can understand having a list of cells, or regulations on cell construction, but not to go through the process of making cell rules, getting them checked by the EB, a list created, and then still allowing non-checked cells to be used.