Scottish 1/10th offroad AGM

[Racing Snake]

Guys,

a date was decided on for the AGM a while ago but i'm unsure if it got out to the people it needed to so this is the official word.

date of AGM : 21/11/10
Location : Bowhouse Community Center, Grangemouth (http://www.falkirkrcc.co.uk/venue.php)
Start time : 10am

If this is un-suitable for anyone then please let me know & will re-schedule.

Also if you have any proposals then please post them in the proposals thread, preferably sensible ones

Thanks
John Allan
BRCA Rep. Scotland

[raymondkerr]

Sounds good John, I assume we'll be racing afterwards ?

[msxmre]

I'll be there John, thanks for the heads up m8.
Scotty....

[orinoco]

I'll be there.

[orinoco]

Deleted

[Mr Eccleston]

Any feedback from Stonehaven, might be a bit early for them.

Secondly, how are we going to decide who can vote etc as the series until now has been run by the host clubs. We are effectively starting from scratch.

[Mr Eccleston]

Another thought, can we have an electronic copy of the BRCA rules and dates prior to the AGM, pretty pointless to have a meeting if we don't know the BRCA rules and the dates to avoid.

[Donutt]

Firstly, who votes. As exiting administrator of the Series, and after consultation with the BRCA Rep (John), we think it's fair that anyone who participated at a SORC 2010 event, has a right to vote. If anyone disagrees, I'd expect them to do so in writing (email is preferrerd, PM is fine) to myself and/or John, your BRCA rep. If there are many objections (more than 20% of attendees), then this championship should be dissolved and a new one should be organised by someone else.

It's also fair to say that the only site that offered ALL the information on the SORC was this section in Oople. The notification of the AGM only needs to be here. I see no reason to waste private money and time sending out emails or written invitations. Everyone who attended the meetings found out directly or indirectly from this forum, so the AGM notification can follow the same process.

Now, I think trying to get the calendar done at the AGM is too much.
We should leave that to the Championship Team (CC/CT) to sort out after the AGM. They need the info from BRCA and also need to choose which clubs will get a round, after careful and full consideration. So it would be nigh impossible to try and get that done at the AGM. IMHO.

First thing we should be deciding is how the Championship is managed, by committee or by a Team (I prefer Team - see my proposal).

Secondly, the AGM should be deciding on the basics;

• MAXIMUM number of rounds,
• number of counting rounds ( based on percentage, minimum, etc),
• subset of rules not in BRCA that we want to apply, or do we leave that to the CC/CT?,
• trophies, financials, how is that done?
• other proposals

For every proposal after "how the Championship is managed", we should firstly vote if it is with the AGM, or with the CC/CT to make decisions. That way, we can get through everything and we have agreement that the proper democratic process is observed.

Not everything has to be decided at the AGM - but we have to decide how everything is managed.

If we try and do everything in a couple of hours, then mistakes will be made, decisions will be made without enough info, and it'll be no better than a chimps tea-party (see other RC clubs/organisations for examples...)

Apologies if this reads as brutal - not my intention, but the AGM is there to ensure a smooth transfer of management. I don't think we need to transfer the entire management process, to a body of people including everyone and their dog. It's far more important to debate and decide who is best placed, in terms of availability and experience, to look after the championship, and decide what powers we give them. Then we leave them to get on with it as effectively as possible without interruption.

If we don't like what they do in 2011, we come back next November and vote in a new CC/CT. It can't be simpler. And of course, you could adopt the power of the EGM and the Vote of No Confidence (another proposal).

[Racing Snake]

I understand the thought about not having a meeting until the BRCA 1/10th offroad have sorted their dates but the idea of the AGM is to get the major issues sorted/agreed on ie

1. Championship format
2. which clubs wish to hold a round
3. race fees
4. committee (if needed)
5. scrutineering
6. marshalling
7. tyres
8. electric board ie batteries etc

The reason I say this is because the dates tend not to be released from the BRCA 1/10th offroad till late January from what i remember & I'd like to get the better part of things sorted asap. The dates will be sorted/agreed with the clubs there after & then conveyed to the racers etc

Hope this makes sense
John

[Racing Snake]

Sorry for the late notice or any problems this may cause but I'm going to have to put the AGM back to a later date so that I can get time to read through all the proposals etc.

I shall let you all know ASAP what the new date will be

[Disley]

I think common-sense should prevail. You can over complicate the simple and remove the enjoyment of competition.

Having said that I think there should be a control tyre. One make/one style/one compound. It might be different for different locations, but it would reduce costs and create a level playing field.

Also, given the rising cost of racing and the decresasing value of my wage, I question the need to have BRCA approved batteries etc. The costs might put people off racing. Surely, it's better to have full races, and frankly does it really make a difference?

Martyn and Tom.

[Racing Snake]

Well that is a point for discussion at the AGM.

[Mr Eccleston]

Originally Posted by Disley

I think common-sense should prevail. You can over complicate the simple and remove the enjoyment of competition.

Having said that I think there should be a control tyre. One make/one style/one compound. It might be different for different locations, but it would reduce costs and create a level playing field.

Also, given the rising cost of racing and the decresasing value of my wage, I question the need to have BRCA approved batteries etc. The costs might put people off racing. Surely, it's better to have full races, and frankly does it really make a difference?

Martyn and Tom.

Reducing the style compound won't reduce cost, but agree it will create a level playing field.The reason it doesn't reduce cost is because until you limit the number of tyres per day there is no cost saving.If someone chooses to use one set of the "control tyre" per race at £10 a go,that would be £60 for 4 heats and 2 finals. If you have no control tyre and same driver chose to use 6 different tyres on a day,againat £10 it's the same cost. I would say it is very hard to limit the number of tyres per day, and probably harder to control compound as the coloured indicator always wears off the tyre.

Perhaps something to consider is limiting the tyres as per the BRCA this year, typically it was Schumacher minispikes in either yellow or green depending on weather. With tyre doing a few meetings it did not have to be costly.

Valid discussion re cells,strictly speaking they only have to be as per the EB for Nationals, and we are a Regional. The only thing to consider is that at least you know the cells on the EB list have been tested against spec. Totally agree we should be encouraging as many people to race as possible.

[Disley]

Re: cells, just to illustrate my point.

I bought a 5200mAh/ 40C cell from Hong Kong for £30, including post in January. The price has risen recently to about £50. In the UK, BRCA approved cells of the same size are about £100. I fail to see why I should pay double.

Further, as I'm never going to win the Scottish Championship, but am there for the enjoyment and camaraderie (oh...and to beat Thomas and Jim) is this cost be justified? I think not.

Comments please.

Martyn and Thomas

[Donutt]

Originally Posted by Mr Eccleston

Valid discussion re cells,strictly speaking they only have to be as per the EB for Nationals, and we are a Regional.

Don't think the above is correct Derek. Just trawled through the 1:10 Electric Off-Road rules for 2010.

Rule 2.2 says that

"Regional events should be run to the same format (National rules), but are allowed to use variations of the following rules:"

then it lists a bunch of rules that can be "tweaked".

However none of them allow moving away from EB regs. I think it needs to be considered that if we break away from the EB for batteries, then we might risk losing Regional status.

It doesn't matter to me as I'll never race at another BRCA National event again, but there are a lot of drivers who want to run the Scottish as a Regional Series so I think you maybe want to have a look at this yourself and see if I've read it correctly.

[Donutt]

Originally Posted by Disley

Re: cells, just to illustrate my point.

I bought a 5200mAh/ 40C cell from Hong Kong for £30, including post in January. The price has risen recently to about £50. In the UK, BRCA approved cells of the same size are about £100. I fail to see why I should pay double.

Further, as I'm never going to win the Scottish Championship, but am there for the enjoyment and camaraderie (oh...and to beat Thomas and Jim) is this cost be justified? I think not.

Regarding your batteries specifically.
It's not just about cheap, it's about protecting investment during competition.

With the EB list:
If I get a list of batteries in January from the BRCA, this list is produced only once a year. In January, I can buy 2 batteries for competition, knowing they'll perform to similar capabilities as almost all the batteries on the list.

So I spend £200 to race the entire season. I know they'll be competitive for a dozen meetings at least, and will continue after that for years.

If we didn't have the EB list:
If I could order any battery, at any time, then as soon as I'd spent £200 in January, if a whizzy new battery appeared in February offering 20% more speed, I'd have to buy it to compete.

And so it goes on and on all year. That's the way it used to be, and we don't want to back to those bad old days.

Regards different levels of competition:
We need different levels so beginners aren't severely challenged with budget, tech skills and ability - they can get going and enjoy it.
But we also need to have Club, Regional, National and International Competitions, so as we get better, we can face and take on increasing challenges.

With these other competitions come the need to have tighter controls on budget, as they become more important. It's ok to have lesser restrictions on club racing for instance, as it's not important enough to have the best stuff, but you'll see now with each increase in competition, so does the benefit if you throw a chequebook at it.

If we leave Regionals open, it will not actually be cheaper, but more expensive. And the person that suffers most, is the person who has the talent, who could win, but can't keep up with the extra spend of the "chequebook racers"...

I may have just fully justified why you will hopefully be buying your batteries from the EB list in January.... (and wait for the 2011 list before buying).

[Mr Eccleston]

I've spoken to John Allan, date for the 2011 AGM is Saturday 5th February @2pm, venue to be confirmed.

Going to try and find a small public house close to NORA that we can grab some food from 1pm before the meeting starts at 2pm.

If you have discussion points please use the seperate discussion thread.

[kyoshogit]

2.00pm........is the venue known yet?

[Mr Eccleston]

Venue just booked, it is:

The Olive Tree Restaurant
Dunfermline

http://www.come.to/olive.tree

Parking is at the back of the building.

The deal is we need the majority to have a bar lunch there between 1pm and 2pm. We can then stay in the room for the couple of hours we need for the agm. There is a bar available but I guess most people will be on soft drinks.

For a single course bar lunch you are looking at less than £5, for 3 courses it's £7.50.

Directions are on the website, but basically it is at the front of the venue we used to use for the Scottish Carpet Championships.

Tried other venies, but they were quoting £20-30 per hour for the room, and food was £15+ per head, if anyone wants to put there hand up to pay the bill...........

See you there on Saturday.

[Racing Snake]

Sorry folks but something has come up that now means I cannot make it this Saturday (family commitments).

Can we re-arrange for next Sunday morning at the Falkirk Club?

I know what you said about not having it the same day as racing Derek but this way I can guarantee people turning up, whereas at the moment I know of a large number of people who can't make it this Saturday.

Also racing will be free next Sunday so it is not seen as me trying to get money into the club.

The aim is:

Sunday 13th February
SORRC AGM
Bowhouse Community Center
Grangemouth
Skye Court

At 10am