illegal 2.2 wheels ????

[DCM]

Just out of curiosity, would a Schumacher tyre fit that rim?

[neallewis]

Originally Posted by DCM

Just out of curiosity, would a Schumacher tyre fit that rim?

No, it won't.



The diameter of the wheel rim is similar to the diameter of the outer lip on a regular 2.2" rim, about 2.4".

A Schumacher tyre will be deformed and stretched out of shape.

[mark christopher]

Thank god I'm an engineer not a scientist......col u got room on your box for another

[neallewis]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

Thank god I'm an engineer not a scientist......col u got room on your box for another

I'm an engineer too ;-)

Besides you can talk Mark, you're normally stirring the pot

Hey

Am i right in thinking, that even if the BRCA decide to change the current ruleing, then it won't take effect until the next agm, where it may or may not be voted in?

I know that the BRCA can change rules, but only if it effects safety?

I may be wrong

BM

[racingdwarf]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

Thank god I'm an engineer not a scientist......col u got room on your box for another

steady now,, we will need to do a calculation to make sure the box is able to hold all our combined weight, or it may collapse before we get to jump!

[neallewis]

This video explains it all:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XneKnoUv1cM

[mark christopher]

So its only the asize, not the design?

[neallewis]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

So its only the asize, not the design?

yes, they are still round. just differently round.

[Mike Haswell]

What you have here is a classic example of manufacturer trying to be clever and it biting them. They now have a rim that only their tyre fits and a range of tyres that only fits their rim.

The buggy manufacturers, just like F1 and other full-sized racing, use the tyre as part of the suspension. Going low-profile isn't the way to go.

They have tried to use the maximum diameter including the rims as the diameter to which the tyres are ruled - a 5.59mm difference. Then they have the internal rims which make the wheel even larger than the maximum 61.47mm. There is an engineering drawing in the Ifmar rules 4.2.11 (page 14) which makes it clear.

[knighthawk]

Got to say this is starting to annoy me !

Why can the manufactures agree to make a standard type wheel and fitting !

The Touring section has 12mm hex as standard.

The 8th Rallycross section has 17mm hex as standard.

We as the 10th section are all over the place !

Pin fitting Front & Rears
Pin fitting Rears with 10mm Front Hex.
12mm Hex Front & Rear.
14mm Hex Front & Rear.

And now there are going to be different wheels and tyres types with AKA

Can someone knock their heads together and agree on one size !

12mm Hex seems to be to be the industry standard in Touring car which all the Manufactures make Off Road chassis, so why all the inconsistency ??


Sorry, rant over

[Mike Haswell]

Think that will take a bit of time to get them all to agree on a single size!

[knighthawk]

Originally Posted by Mike Haswell

Think that will take a bit of time to get them all to agree on a single size!

They were half there a couple years ago !

Losi started with pin rears and 10mm hex fronts !
Tamiya, Associated, Kyosho all followed,

But the new raft of buggies came along, Durango was the first I believe and fitted 14mm Hex and now the others have fallen away and fitted what they want

[neallewis]

Originally Posted by knighthawk

Got to say this is starting to annoy me !

And now there are going to be different wheels and tyres types with AKA

Sorry, rant over

oh no! shock news... someone has tried to reinvent the wheel, again.

Don't worry about it. These AKA rims are 12mm hex, not that it matters.
In the UK its not an issue, as I've mentioned before. Schumacher aren't about to throw away their tyre moulds and make new ones to fit these rims. It's irrelevant to the UK 1/10th buggy market. The BRCA may make a rule change, if only to ensure that we keep using tyres and wheels of the current design. I'm sure Schumacher may even push the BRCA to write in that rule, which is probably where this is coming from?
Either way, do any UK dealers actually carry any AKA EVO wheels and tyres? I think not as its an obsolete product here. The tyres are only for US style indoor hard packed clay. We have two tracks like that in the UK, RHR Dirt and
Storm Valley, both of which are Proline tyres (CML) only.

AKA may have tried to innovate with this product, but I think it's being shut down. Notice they haven't committed their entire tyre range to it, probably a smart move, given the rest of the industry in the US is trying to shut them down with this change.

Next.

[Col]

Originally Posted by neallewis

It's irrelevant to the UK 1/10th buggy market.

That is my interpretation as well. TBH I can't see why our BRCA would go to the trouble of banning them.

[spenner]

Originally Posted by neallewis

Well schumacher, ballistic buggies, proline and every other wheel manufacturer are not about to start making tyres and wheels to fit those AKA Evo wheels/tyres. They certainly don't have a bunch of product waiting to be sold.
It IS irrelevant here until the major UK market players bring out product that's compatible.
Buggy racers in the UK mostly use Schumacher 2.2 tyres, ballistics in the wet. Our few dirt tracks are Proline affiliated also.
No one uses 1/10 AKA dirt tyres here at race meetings.
Rest assured that if Schumacher made a move to this rim size/tyre fitment/rim, it *would* be BRCA legal.

The performance increase is really in the gluing. Faster, cleaner, easier, etc.
The overall rolling diameter of the tyre is the same. The rim bead is larger, ~2.4", about the same as the current outer lip on regular 2.2" wheels.

Have to disagree I am afraid, what they do in the rest of the world has a major impact on the uk. If losi, j concepts, de racing, pro line, associated to name a few adopt this style (hence the quote I made above regarding people waiting for an outcome) that would mean the rest would need to follow suit. The dimensions have been put in place (for the wheel) for many years. Sadly your quote regarding what Schumacher do, does not mean they would be legal, it would mean someone hasn't done their job properly!!

The uk is a small market for the big guns out there and although I like what aka have done for the reasons you mention.
It could kick start companies looking at this type of wheel, but as it currently stands they would need to be made to the dimensions allowed.

[DCM]

Originally Posted by Col

That is my interpretation as well. TBH I can't see why our BRCA would go to the trouble of banning them.

I have absolutely loads to comment on that, but fear my inbox may explode!!!

[Col]

Originally Posted by DCM

I have absolutely loads to comment on that, but fear my inbox may explode!!!

Go for it buddy! I wish for enlightenment

[terry.sc]

Originally Posted by spenner

Have to disagree I am afraid, what they do in the rest of the world has a major impact on the uk. If losi, j concepts, de racing, pro line, associated to name a few adopt this style (hence the quote I made above regarding people waiting for an outcome) that would mean the rest would need to follow suit.

First of all if the manufacturers want to move to this new diameter first they will have to get ROAR and IFMAR to change their rules. Both specify a 2.2" maximum bead diameter, these AKA wheels aren't legal for sanctioned racing already. It doesn't stop club racers from using them, just like a BRCA rule wouldn't stop club racers here using them either.

So everyone is making a fuss based on overhearing something about wheels that aren't sold over here, nor do they fit any of the control tyres we use and won't be usable in the UK unless AKA start making astro compatible minipins and clubs start choosing them as control tyres for BRCA meetings - that just isn't going to happen.

If AKA had made the wheels with a tyre bead at 2.2" there might have been a market for the wheels, and you would have been able to to use your favourite tyres on them. By the time of the AGM to add wheels dimensions to the rules these wheels will have been forgotten about.

[racingdwarf]

I agree with some posts, the aka wheels will be great for US style tyres like proline and AKA as they have chunkier beads and are far baggier on the wheel when fitting so the extra size will make them a better fit and the outside lip missing will be handy. But I know of 3 tracks in the uk you may want them for RHR,storm valley and our dirt track at NBC() as far as I know non of these venues hold any sort of sanctioned event. The fact that for 99.9% of uk tracks you want shumacker tyres or BB tyres and the BRCA tyre rule that most regions follow will make these rims useless in uk, so really make no difference.

The big change could be if in the US, japan etc as they use dirt tyres all the time.If they change the rule to suit these rims as they work well for them, then AE, TLR and yokomo could follow making there wheels the design and size of the AKA, this could in time cause a big problem us in the uk as our uk shumacker tyres will not fit the rim! and we could have a period of time when half the cars at a regional and national can't run the control tyre

But if BRCA adopt, then follow the ifmar rule schumacher could be left with no choice than to change their tyre sizes as if not there tyres will only fit their cars

BRCA are quite smart if they adopt the ifmar rule now, as if ifmar changes BRCA can just follow in the future.

So if all the above did happen AKA may start the biggest change since 2.2, and it's not favouring shumacher