Longer races?

[stevie b]

Just wondering if anyone has any opinions on :- why we still only race for 5mins?
Batteries now are so good that racing for 15minutes plus is possible.? i know increasing from 5mins to 15mins is abit of a jump, but i think at least the finals could maybe be 10 or 12mins? After all were all doing this hobby to race, and the more time on the track the better right?

[RandomConflict]

I'm with you on this one. I think it all comes down to the amount of available time though to run the meeting. On some of the big meetings, even with 5 minute racing, the final leg of the A Final can finish pretty late in the day! Even with practice starting at 8:30/9am. Realistically I reckon 6/7 minutes maximum at the larger meetings.

I did marshal a 15 minute 1/8 nitro final at a club meeting at Coventry a few weeks back, with the winner being the only electric 1/8th buggy which had been put with the nitros. 15 minutes from an electric 1/8th buggy would have been unheard of in the NiMH days!

[bandyleg]

10 minutes is quite a long time for a newbie racer and also quite some time for a pro driver to concentrate, I think however the problem would come from over heating as top drivers now a days are running there cars so highly tuned that even another couple of minutes would probably cause a meltdown lol.
How ever at our local club we now run 6 minute finals and we are observing the pros and cons.
It seem so far that the 2 wd guys are happy to run the 6 minutes without too much of a problem, but the 4wd guys are having over heating problems this is more then likely due to the fact they drive like mad men lol.

Thats my 10 pence but there is gonna be a good bunch of arguments for this. personally i am in favour of the extra time

[eyeayen]

The 8th Nitro's have always had longer finals and they keep their cars runnings, part of the sport to be able to complete the final. So for it to knock down to the 10th's would be ace.

The brushed motors were always on the limit so people started fitting fans to cool them during the race. Manufacturers need to look at this too.

If the finals went in stages so the bottom 3 were only 5 minutes, then the next few up were maybe 8mins going up to the A final that was 15 minutes for the pro's that would be really good. And I think making your car / motor / ESC last for the race would become part of it.

[Chrislong]

The motors tend to get hot, and heat weakens the magnet, then that causes them to get hotter - and then you have problems. In the past even when practicing/testing I only ran for 5-6 minutes at a time. Things are better now but still I wouldn't be confident to push it - its expensive gear afterall.

Meetings tend to be over subscribed, to extend race duration would mean having to reduce entries and that wouldn't be popular as already people are getting turned away - i.e.Chadderton, Nationals, NW regionals. But then club meetings is a different story - can be down to the clubs own discretion.

[jaysllim]

Down at C.O.B.R.A in wales we already run 6 min heats and finals without a problem,but as said earlier it more comes down to how much time in the day u have.i no the nitros run 10/15 etc etc finals but not heats they have about 2min warm up time on the track nd 5 min qualy. But if u banged in the heats then mby u could look at increasing the qualy timebut again u will have sum one colain sayin I dnt have time to do bla bla bla for a xample.
Just my 2p

[hotrodchris]

Nitro wise i have seen hour long final's! but the standard is 15 mins, it would be good to have longer finals in 1/10th as the batteries can survive agreed more in 2wd than 4wd, as looking to put about 1500 back into a set after 5mins with the 2wd whereas about 2600 back into a set in 4wd after 5 mins!

[Big paul]

Originally Posted by eyeayen

The 8th Nitro's have always had longer finals and they keep their cars runnings, part of the sport to be able to complete the final. So for it to knock down to the 10th's would be ace.

The brushed motors were always on the limit so people started fitting fans to cool them during the race. Manufacturers need to look at this too.

If the finals went in stages so the bottom 3 were only 5 minutes, then the next few up were maybe 8mins going up to the A final that was 15 minutes for the pro's that would be really good. And I think making your car / motor / ESC last for the race would become part of it.

This my seem ok. but I for one would not like to pay say £25 for a nat . then find some people paying the same and getting more track time.

[eyeayen]

Originally Posted by Big paul

This my seem ok. but I for one would not like to pay say £25 for a nat . then find some people paying the same and getting more track time.

That's a fair point and one I hadn't considered. Surely that's even more of an incentive to get better or would it put people off ? Everyone has to start somewhere.

The other thing that could maybe come over from Nitro's is the bump up, I don't know how that would work and if the electric's would cool down enough in between one race and the next but top 3 would bump up to the next final, that would mean more track time.

[WHITTLER555]

If you want to run for a long time then I suggest you get a team together for next years York Ebor 24 hour race.

With 6 drivers we ran 1 hour long stints each, the Durango 210 ran faultlessly for 24 hours, 8.5T motor, no fan, Nosram Pearl speedo.

Believe me, after 24 hours you won't want to run for more than 5 minutes for the rest of the year!

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by Big paul

This my seem ok. but I for one would not like to pay say £25 for a nat . then find some people paying the same and getting more track time.

well they do for 8th nationals and thier full.......

[Loheswaran]

I think they already run 6 minutes in the united states.

I think it would be good if perhaps the finals are stretched to 8 or 10 minutes. then people won't be racing to late into the evening at certain meetings.

I have to say that my buggy electrics simply do not take the same mullering as either my touring car or my 1/12.

I am well happy with my switch to off-road. Just can't wait for my knee op to heal and my chest infection to clear up and I will be doing regular weekly club racing asap.

lohan

[s22jgs]

i quite often do 30 minute runs on a practice day with my 2wd.

I really dont see why we cant have one 15 or 20 minute final rather than 3.

If overheating is an issue due to running the motors so advanced then people would have to ramp it down a bit... every other form of motorsport has to make a compromise between performance and finishing the race.

Apart from anything else, a longer race gives more chance of reward for the slower but more consistent drivers.

It also helps do away a little with the fact that top drivers get given tyres, and those with money can afford a new set every run.

[Si Coe]

When this has been proposed at club level before its generally been considered this way - you can have say 10 min finals and 3 rounds of qualifying, or 5 min finals and 4 rounds. The length of the day, and the time on the track - stays the same.
In nitro the key feature of the longer final is the fuel stop - in effect the race has to be longer than a tanks worth to force you to refuel. Any electric race longer than 5 mins, but not long enough to need a battery change does not have this need, so can really be considered as a conventional final, but over more laps.
In this respect I fail to see the advantage. Few races would end significantly differently after 6, 7, 8 mins than the running order at 5. True there are lots of races with last lap dramatic maneuvers but these are a sprint to the finish and would simply occur after 8 mins not 5.
The only effect is the greater emphasis on reliability and endurance. One of the beautiful features of the modern era is that even at entry level drivers can have cars that can run at full race pace for 5 mins without worry. In the past, having the best cells used to really make a difference, but now it doesn't.

I just figure that really 1/10th offroad is all about sprint racing. Endurance racing is a different concept.

[smokes]

hasn't this argument been discussed for two or more years and has got shot down in flames?

I think the main reason was getting the amount of racing done in a day is dependant on the amount of drivers. More drivers at meeting means you have limited amount of time to do the heats. Hence 5 or 6 mins had been settled on. I suspect we can easily go to 8 min racing like 1/12th scale but that might take some time to get organised / used to.

[hotrodchris]

1/8th nitro un 4 or 5 quallies plus 15min bump up finals and normally finish at a resonable time and their 5 min quallies include a 2 min warm up as well.
Well established tracks like Slough will often get 100 plus drivers turning up to run so is time really that much of a problem if it can be done by them?

[Robbiejuk]

Originally Posted by hotrodchris

1/8th nitro un 4 or 5 quallies plus 15min bump up finals and normally finish at a resonable time and their 5 min quallies include a 2 min warm up as well.
Well established tracks like Slough will often get 100 plus drivers turning up to run so is time really that much of a problem if it can be done by them?

They don't have to recharge though.

[s22jgs]

Originally Posted by Robbiejuk

They don't have to recharge though.

There is still usually at least 40 minutes between heats in nitro. they have no quicker turn around than electric. i much prefer nitro because in my eyes a race should be a test of all areas, speed, skill, reliability, endurance...

In any case, if the finals were made 15 minutes not 3x5 then you save time anyway by not having so many change overs between so many runs

[ASR]

The fact that a club racer has no real disadvantage over a team driver regarding equipment e.g motors and batteries was one of the main reasons myself and quite a few others i know got back into this hobby.

I'm so glad the days of skimming motors, matching cells, changing brush compounds going steady on the gearing, switching the thing on at the last possible minute.........to still dump on the last lap are a distant memory.

In those days you had to constantly spend a fortune on the latest batteries which were the best performers........but not quite as good as the sponsored guy down the local track.

There is more scope than ever before for people to mess with thier cars if thats what people are after, as they have never been more adjustable and you don't have to constantly spend a fortune replacing and matching cells.

I think at big meetings it should remain the same as it is, the day is long enough already, the number of entries should also stay the same, otherwise it wouldm't be a big meeting.

At smaller meetings - clubbys, just have more qualy rounds and open practice for 10 mins between rounds like we do!, plently of track time then with no fear of dumping or going back in time and isolating any type of racer.

[Razer]

In Norway, we first switched to seven minutes, and then to eight two years ago. Running eight minutes is ok. The race is a bit longer, you can get into a rythm, and you get more running during race day.

We have one problem though. All international racing is still five minutes, and it's a lot harder adjusting back to the intensity you need with that, than it is to run longer heats. But I feel 8 minutes has really been a good thing, as it feels a lot longer, yet it's still short enough so that you get the intensity that I love about electric racing.

Of course, we can run 20-30 minutes and more, but then we take away some of the intensity and make strategy in terms of tire wear and heat for that matter a lot more important. In my eyes? Boooring:-P