BRCA 1/10th Electric Off Road AGM Proposals

[HOTSHOT III]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

I'm not a yes man, I just understand the process and why we have a list. I'm also entitled to my opinion, just like you......
Let's all be honest here the biggest problem is not the £20 it's hobbyking not submitting their cells , if they did that then this would be a non issue

You certainly are entitled to your opinion my friend. That being the case, do you have a view on why I can race an MP9e at the 1/8th ebuggy nationals using Turnigy cells (or for that matter use a Turnigy LiPo RX pack in a 1/8th nitro truggy, a vehicle carrying 150ml of highly flammable liquid) and yet i'm threatened with someone scurrying off and telling tales to the British Establishment if I show up at a 1/10th regional with a Nano-Tech in my car?

I on the other hand appear to "not be entitled to an opinion" to quote Neil Skull.

TBH you make a good point about HK not submitting their cells, I have no idea why they've taken this approach but has anyone from the BRCA actually approached them and told them we have a problem in the UK and maybe they could help resolve it? Communication is the key.

[HarlowS]

Because many a year ago it was voted in that the 10th section had a Cell list, its has never been voted out. On the other hand nobody from the 8th side has voted a cell list in, so they are not ruled by it..... Simples

Originally Posted by HOTSHOT III

You certainly are entitled to your opinion my friend. That being the case, do you have a view on why I can race an MP9e at the 1/8th ebuggy nationals using Turnigy cells (or for that matter use a Turnigy LiPo RX pack in a 1/8th nitro truggy, a vehicle carrying 150ml of highly flammable liquid) and yet i'm threatened with someone scurrying off and telling tales to the British Establishment if I show up at a 1/10th regional with a Nano-Tech in my car?

I on the other hand appear to "not be entitled to an opinion" to quote Neil Skull.

TBH you make a good point about HK not submitting their cells, I have no idea why they've taken this approach but has anyone from the BRCA actually approached them and told them we have a problem in the UK and maybe they could help resolve it? Communication is the key.

[Northy]

Originally Posted by DCM

Actually, a lot of 'informed posters' are flying the safety flag. I know what the EB List is for and why, been racing long enough. Which is why I kept pushing it, Northy's post hit the reason for the EB list right on the head.

Thank you

As Ex BRCA 10th offroad Tech Officer, I'd like to think I understand things a little - and that's not to say I fully agree with it all - but I also understand the process required for change......

G

[Northy]

Originally Posted by HarlowS

Because many a year ago it was voted in that the 10th section had a Cell list, its has never been voted out. On the other hand nobody from the 8th side has voted a cell list in, so they are not ruled by it..... Simples

Nail - Hit - Head

[HOTSHOT III]

Originally Posted by HarlowS

Because many a year ago it was voted in that the 10th section had a Cell list, its has never been voted out. On the other hand nobody from the 8th side has voted a cell list in, so they are not ruled by it..... Simples

In which case the BRCA is displaying a glaring lack of consistency across different classes on what is considered by many to be a safety issue. How many LiPo fires have there been at the ebuggy nationals, or in racing outside of the classes subject to a cell list? And how many of those involved or didn't involve Turnigy or other "parallel import" cells?

Furthermore as others have said, how many were due to user error? Taking this to its logical conclusion, if you really want the use of LiPos to be 100% safe there should also be a list of approved chargers, balance devices, LiPo sacks etc. Why has the BRCA not done this to save us from ourselves? After all, if they did this we could all be chraged double the current going rate for an "approved" charger or balance board and those with a vested interest could make even more money.

All things considered the cell list seems a pretty half-baked idea at best.

[HarlowS]

Im pretty sure that all of your questions have already been answered here on numerous posts.... So i urge you to read through this thread carefully and pick out the factual posts.

In Short. 'WE' are the BRCA, not the few people in 'power'.
WE, can choose to vote out the list, even your good self could of put a reccomendation to be voted upon at this at this years AGM.

The Cell list (i say cell as it comes from before lipo's) is not just for 'safety', it provides an audit trail through the manufactures for the insurance to handle liabilty claims. It has never stated that these are the only safe lipo's on the market, which is what most people are thinking it is.

Originally Posted by HOTSHOT III

In which case the BRCA is displaying a glaring lack of consistency across different classes on what is considered by many to be a safety issue. How many LiPo fires have there been at the ebuggy nationals, or in racing outside of the classes subject to a cell list? And how many of those involved or didn't involve Turnigy or other "parallel import" cells?

Furthermore as others have said, how many were due to user error? Taking this to its logical conclusion, if you really want the use of LiPos to be 100% safe there should also be a list of approved chargers, balance devices, LiPo sacks etc. Why has the BRCA not done this to save us from ourselves? After all, if they did this we could all be chraged double the current going rate for an "approved" charger or balance board and those with a vested interest could make even more money.

All things considered the cell list seems a pretty half-baked idea at best.

[Chris56]

I like this thread - I don't think it should be shut down but several arguments are repeating themselves, and in reality no rules are going to change until the next AGM

Nice to hear from people like Northy and Slowone who know the intricacies of how the BRCA and their EB works thanks for you contribution guys.

The discussion really needs to be where do things go from here? Whether you agree with it or not, the presence of an "Approval List" does invite strong views which have been discussed in several threads in the past.

This year there was a proposal to simply scrap it and that didn't even make it to a vote at the AGM (based on what I read 8 pages ago!!!).

I suspect alot of the motivation for this is the use of HK LIPOs at Regionals/Nationals - from usage reports by several UK racers they are safe and good quality so should be allowed - thats certainly what I want!!. This can only be acheived by either:
1) HK submitting thier cells to the BRCA
2) Changing the EB rules to suit.

Our of interest, how to ROAR and EFRA work with regards LIPO approval? How do they differ from the BRCA? Ifthere is to be a proposal to chnage the EB rules then perhaps looking at alternative bodies for inspiration is the way forward.

[dazp83]

Hobbyking aren't eligible for homologation as they only have one warehouse in the uk, or one vendor. Themselves.

[Chris56]

Im just considering Gens Ace - you are only able to get them through Giantshark (unless im wrong) in the UK, yet they have made it onto "da list". How do they differ?

[dazp83]

They don't undercut the competition by as much

[Chris56]

They're only £5 - £10 more than the HK equivalents though

[AC199]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

Let's get this straight, I had not said anything to you till you attacked my dislexia and made it personal......

If you want to gallop in in you shiney armour in your white horse and save all the poor hk souls, then do it via the correct procedure pointed out by me and Jim, look forward to seeing your proposal.....

Mark, normally I would suggest you aren't worth the time, but this time you've pissed me off.

I dont give 2 shits about Hobbyking, nor cells, nor 50% of the proposals that go off at the AGM. I give a shit about 100% of the rules being decided by 1% of the people. Before you respond with "Go to the AGM then" I would love to, and I'm pretty sure 75% of the rest of the racing public would love to as well, but we have lives that cannot be dropped at the fart of a gnat to drive 300 miles, nor should we have to given the prevalence of technology suitable for the task at hand.

I also fail to see where I have argued for anything to do with HK... I suggest you go back and review my posts, I have made my viewpoint abundantly clear.

As far as who cast the first stone, who gives a shit? Bottom line is you're insulting, dismissive and have a blatant superiority complex. Now, I've spoken to a few people and they all say you're an alright bloke, and I'm sure in person you are, but if you could tone down your rhetoric on here and actually read what people are typing we might make more progress on resolving issues.

I didnt realise that you had dyslexia, but it does explain how you managed to spell it wrong. I have dyscalcula personally. Ever wondered why dyslexia is such a hard word to spell? Anyways, I digress, perhaps instead of bitching at each other, we could use our powers for good and actually move the discussion on and past cells to slightly more important things?

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by HOTSHOT III

You certainly are entitled to your opinion my friend. That being the case, do you have a view on why I can race an MP9e at the 1/8th ebuggy nationals using Turnigy cells (or for that matter use a Turnigy LiPo RX pack in a 1/8th nitro truggy, a vehicle carrying 150ml of highly flammable liquid) and yet i'm threatened with someone scurrying off and telling tales to the British Establishment if I show up at a 1/10th regional with a Nano-Tech in my car?

I on the other hand appear to "not be entitled to an opinion" to quote Neil Skull.

TBH you make a good point about HK not submitting their cells, I have no idea why they've taken this approach but has anyone from the BRCA actually approached them and told them we have a problem in the UK and maybe they could help resolve it? Communication is the key.

This is fact and has been confirmed by Jim the brca guru,
Each section votes to use the eb list, 10th do 8th do not, it is that simple. It's nothing to do with the brca, it's each section voted for by the drivers,

Hobby king have been contacted by the 12th section several times 're Lipo aproval and blinky speedos, they are not interested. They contacted hk, even though it's not their job to do so. It is purely down to hk,

[dazp83]

It was pointed out a while back that hk aren't eligible as they onky have one warehouse in the uk. I doubt theyd have another to be eligible for brca rules. Definitely going round in circles here with more insults being thrown in. Could things be proposed and then voted for at brca approved clubs? With a trusted official?

[dazp83]

Oh and the gens ace are good value, if they're on offer when I need some I'll buy them.

[MattW]

Originally Posted by dazp83

It was pointed out a while back that hk aren't eligible as they onky have one warehouse in the uk. I doubt theyd have another to be eligible for brca rules. Definitely going round in circles here with more insults being thrown in. Could things be proposed and then voted for at brca approved clubs? With a trusted official?

That's been "pointed out" yes, but I've just had a very quick scan of the EB rules and I can't actually see it on there...............

http://www.brca.org/content/regulations/1398

All I could see was.................

2. Homologation Procedure & Price Limits.

2.1 Before any item is added to an homologation list, the BRCA Electric Board Homologation Officer will need to be satisfied that any new Motor or Battery submitted for approval, has originated from a recognised distributor and will be available for purchase via. a UK outlet.

New items submitted for homologation/approval should be sent to :-

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by AC199

Mark, normally I would suggest you aren't worth the time, but this time you've pissed me off.

I dont give 2 shits about Hobbyking, nor cells, nor 50% of the proposals that go off at the AGM. I give a shit about 100% of the rules being decided by 1% of the people. Before you respond with "Go to the AGM then" I would love to, and I'm pretty sure 75% of the rest of the racing public would love to as well, but we have lives that cannot be dropped at the fart of a gnat to drive 300 miles, nor should we have to given the prevalence of technology suitable for the task at hand.

I also fail to see where I have argued for anything to do with HK... I suggest you go back and review my posts, I have made my viewpoint abundantly clear.

As far as who cast the first stone, who gives a shit? Bottom line is you're insulting, dismissive and have a blatant superiority complex. Now, I've spoken to a few people and they all say you're an alright bloke, and I'm sure in person you are, but if you could tone down your rhetoric on here and actually read what people are typing we might make more progress on resolving issues.

I didnt realise that you had dyslexia, but it does explain how you managed to spell it wrong. I have dyscalcula personally. Ever wondered why dyslexia is such a hard word to spell? Anyways, I digress, perhaps instead of bitching at each other, we could use our powers for good and actually move the discussion on and past cells to slightly more important things?

see you back here a week earlier next year then we can have same thing all over again.....

[HOTSHOT III]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

see you back here a week earlier next year then we can have same thing all over again.....

So you don't have any desire to move onwards and upwards and improve the hobby for everyone, you just want to argue the toss for as long as possible?

If that is the case then "pissing off the whole planet one person at a time" isn't far off!

[HOTSHOT III]

Originally Posted by MattW

That's been "pointed out" yes, but I've just had a very quick scan of the EB rules and I can't actually see it on there...............

http://www.brca.org/content/regulations/1398

All I could see was.................

2. Homologation Procedure & Price Limits.

2.1 Before any item is added to an homologation list, the BRCA Electric Board Homologation Officer will need to be satisfied that any new Motor or Battery submitted for approval, has originated from a recognised distributor and will be available for purchase via. a UK outlet.

New items submitted for homologation/approval should be sent to :-

So is the outlet different from the distributor? If so the effects are twofold:

Firstly it ensures that Hobbyking can never submit their batteries for approval because they supply UK customers directly from their UK warehouse (thank God).

Secondly it guarantees any battery on the EB list will be overpriced in the UK compared to the amount it would sell for in the USA or Europe because the distributor has to take their cut.

So if that is indeed the case then the whole thing stinks, it's a price cartel like I said on page 9. Plus the fact, as well as ensuring that the customer pays more, it also makes the supply chain inefficient.

[ashleyb4]

If you dont have the time or the money to go to the AGM why dont you see if there is one person willing to go to represent your club. If every club had one representative the general opinion of average joe racer would be heard. I went to the agm. It was a 160 mile found trip. Next year they are hoping the AGM will be held at gaydon motor musesm. I believe this will include entry to the musesm. So more of a day can be made of it. If you feel passionate about the changes you want you will make the effort and find a way. I have no time for keyboard warriors. I work really hard to make things happen at my local club more than most people would ever do. Driving to the AGM is small fry.