Entry fees

[Dyna]

Some good points being raised here, and its nice to roughly know how much money is taken at a Welsh Regional and roughly how its spent. And although your minimum entry fee argument makes sense Matt, especially as you run a club & track, you can look at it another way. If the fees were slightly lower this should attract extra drivers. More drivers equals more entry fees ( albeit lower per head ) which should cover the less drivers/higher entry fee. If that were the case, i think most people would enjoy driving against more, varied people ?

Now im quite lucky in the fact i do have a bit of spare cash to spend on buggies, but i havent done two classes at our regionals this year for precisely that reason - i dont like the idea of paying 20 quid for two classes ! Call me tight if you want, but its the principal of the thing Im doing both at Caldicot because its my club, but i wont at the others. Lower it down a wee bit, not too much though, or offer 1/2 cost second class, and i bet you would have more people racing 2 classes....

Just my thoughts

[Craig]

As someone who races now and agian with buggys.

Last year at Swansea (wrca) I paid my lovely entry fee and well to be honest. If there was an episode of watchdog or Xray near by i would of complained.

If the wrca wants to charge national money, then start doing it like a national. Lets have some decent tracks, proper sizes and also some scruitneering.

At the moment the wrca looks a bit of a rip off, about £6-8 would be about right, saying that i only spend £4 to race touring cars at the cotswold and they're ground fees are very high. Lower the costs and get more people actually racing. Or just go for a flat fee of say £6 per class.

[Mikey G]

Maybe the WRCA should stop organising joing nitro/electric days as I can only see the electric boys moaning about 2 bloody quid...

[millzy]

In all the years I have done the WRCA I have always spoke about how we cant match other regions for the tracks and there professional running of the meeting

WRCA is a small fun regional championship that has tracks and drivers that range from National quality to club basher.

I would rather pay a Tenner and run in the WRCA around a flat track that was put out on bumpy ground with half cut grass with every one having a laugh than a fiver in one of the big serious clicky regions where you cant fart with out getting a stop go.

[DCM]

Originally Posted by Mikey G

Maybe the WRCA should stop organising joing nitro/electric days as I can only see the electric boys moaning about 2 bloody quid...

The rational behind that, was that with standalone meetings, there were not enough drivers in both disciplines to make it worth while to hold the meeting. If we can bring numbers up, then we surely can have seperate events.

[c0sie]

Id rather pay a tenner and not race my electric on the same day as nitros....but im not Welsh...

[Mikey G]

Originally Posted by DCM

Right, lets get a couple of matters cleared up here....

High Vis vests... - as a nitro racer, you should have, as part of your equipement, a high vis vest, this is a must due to H&S, BRCA Insurance, and also, for the race director to determine who is who in the pit lane. Same goes for the 'no-smoking' too.

Right, difference between a 'national' run eveny, and our 'regionals', which, comared to how the bigger regions are run, is very lax. If we were to run to FULL regional rules (electric quoting now), on top of what we are doing....

Motor scrutineering
Battery scrutineering
transmitter pound
car scrutineering
track width
rostrum height (Talywain and Saundersfoot comply)
Rostrum length (Talywain and Saundersfoot comply)
Referee's

A vis vest isnt going to save you from injury, education and common sense IS going to reduce the chance of an accident. Irresponsible marshalling should be punished just as much as bad driving. Again, I do not see vis vests in the pit lane at every event we do and it is not enforced, yet with 120 drivers in a decent well run series I have yet to see a serious accident because a pit man wasnt wearing a vis vest. I'm all for health and safety as I work in a manufacturing industry and I have certain responsibilities towards H&S myself. I repeat, a vis vest isnt going to save you if you jump out infront of a moving train...

Granted we dont do scrutineering but if the WRCA want to keep quoting BRCA rules then ignore half of them why do a half arsed job?

We keep our track at 4M width to comply with BRCA Nitro rules and only bring it down to 3M for the electric nationals.

[Mikey G]

Originally Posted by DCM

The rational behind that, was that with standalone meetings, there were not enough drivers in both disciplines to make it worth while to hold the meeting. If we can bring numbers up, then we surely can have seperate events.

Thats the trouble, getting something going locally for a decent day with numbers is very difficult.

A previous poster touched on the subject of track time between the 2 and you can see us nitro boys do have more time on track.

I think the biggest issue over all this is the lack of electric members at the AGM's meaning us nitro people get a bigger say on certain aspects of the WRCA summer series, so only the electrics are to blame for not getting their voices heard and expressing THIER opinion on entry fees and general ruling. So unless more people make an effort then your summer regionals are going to continue to be set by mostly nitro racers.

[Dyna]

Originally Posted by Mikey G

Maybe the WRCA should stop organising joing nitro/electric days as I can only see the electric boys moaning about 2 bloody quid...

Fair enough point, a couple of quid to some people is nothing really - but to others it is. Especially if you are on a tight racing budget, have a couple of kids racing and/or want to run more than one class. Then it all adds up... I think the points about attracting more drivers with slightly lower costs is valid. And the point made by Si G that electrics only run on the track for maybe 2/3rds the time as Nitro's for the same cost.

All good points to discuss - isnt that what this thread was started for ?

[peetbee]

Originally Posted by Belsten

I know I didnt attend the agm before anyone says it but I though this could be worthy of a little discussion on a public forum to gauge peoples OPINIONS

Mikey, you are quite right about the electrics not being represented at the AGM, but I see all this debate being good as it is likely to generate a higher turnout at the next AGM.

Prior to the next AGM surely we need to have these discussions and get a better understanding of what the clubs need, what the racers want and how to make sure we still have fun playing with our TOY cars!

[DCM]

Mikey, it is a BRCA sanctioned event, and where we have some leeway on rules, some rules we don't, like track fencing, marshall safety etc. If you were to have an accident in the pits, i.t. a car launching off the up ramp coming in to fuel, and you didn't have your hi-vis vest on, then you won't get an insurance claim. That comes from the BRCA, not the WRCA.

If people are unhappy with the fee's, then you have to raise this point, put proposals in. We all want the same thing, the WRCA to flourish, just we all got to push in the same direction.

[GRIFF55]

I think it should definately be cheaper to do a second class, that way you might get more people doing both. Also, it would be interesting to see what other regions are charging so as to stay in line with them.

[DCM]

other regions charge between £6-8

[GRIFF55]

there you have it then. Answer solved

[DCM]

oh I just so wish it was that simple lol!!

[Mikey G]

Originally Posted by DCM

Mikey, it is a BRCA sanctioned event, and where we have some leeway on rules, some rules we don't, like track fencing, marshall safety etc. If you were to have an accident in the pits, i.t. a car launching off the up ramp coming in to fuel, and you didn't have your hi-vis vest on, then you won't get an insurance claim. That comes from the BRCA, not the WRCA.

You seem to be mis informed on the subject of insurance. Vis vests are a requirement at BRCA rallycross nationals, as we are not running nationals then its not a requirement for insurance. Not wearing one doesn't invalidate any insurance claims made and that is from the BRCA not my imagination kindly confirmed by Jim Spencer.

We are straying slightly off topic here....

[c0sie]

Mikey, are you on the WRCA Committee?

If not, you should be..I bet they'd appreciate your help.

[DCM]

Mike, I would STRONGLY advise you to read and digest your section rules (8th RallyCross), section 11, para [n]

[n] A maximum of two mechanics per driver will be allowed in the pit lane to assist
with repairs, refuelling, etc. All mechanics in the pit lane will be required to wear
luminous yellow jackets/bibs so that they are equally visible on the track as
marshals.

If you do not adhere to the rules laid down, in the BRCA handbook, if an incident happens, the Public Liability Insurance is null and void, as you have not conformed to the rules you have agreed to, when entering the meeting.

This is what really pisses me off, people say we are running a National quality meeting, yet people wish to pick and choose which bits of the handbook we use. I mean, I could pick apart meetings, disect them where they fail to meet the rules and regulations, but it still comes down to the fact, that if clubs just followed what is in the handbook, then that would be half the battle.

[Mikey G]

*sigh* typical "lalala i'm not listening so i'll quote the rule book..." response...

You earlier said:-

Originally Posted by DCM

Mikey, it is a BRCA sanctioned event, and where we have some leeway on rules, some rules we don't, like track fencing, marshall safety etc. If you were to have an accident in the pits, i.t. a car launching off the up ramp coming in to fuel, and you didn't have your hi-vis vest on, then you won't get an insurance claim. That comes from the BRCA, not the WRCA.

I contacted Jim Spencer... My original email is below his response.

=============================

Hi Michael

No it doesn't, the requirements at Nationals can and do vary from section to section and class to class and definatly when compared to club meetings.

Best regards

Jim

---- Michael Green <me at some email .com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
>
>
> Can you answer me a simple question please. In Rallycross nationals
> you are required to wear a High Vis Jacket in the pit lane and general
> track area such as marshalling. Does this mean that the insurance
> provided by the BRCA is invalid if a High Vis jacket is not used in
> the pit lane at local regional events and club days?
>
>
>
> Much appreciated
>
>
>
> Mike


===========================


Like I said we are off the original subject now but lets not let that get in the way of a good argument....

[DCM]

OK, take it up with the Chairman, and the 8th PRO Rep, and come back to me with what they say, as I am darn sure they will say exactly what I have said. Or should we all run meetings in the ilk of the 810 series?