illegal 2.2 wheels ????

[Col]

Originally Posted by racingdwarf

But I know of 3 tracks in the uk you may want them for RHR,storm valley and our dirt track at NBC()

That would be just your track then - both RHR and Storm Valley are proline only!

[neallewis]

Originally Posted by Col

That would be just your track then - both RHR and Storm Valley are proline only!

There is an echo! ;-)

Looks like AKA are producing more tyres in the evo format though:
http://www.rcnews.net/2014/03/12/new...actus-classic/

[Si Coe]

Before people go around suggesting these new wheels are irrelevant to the UK market, its worth remembering how we ended up with 2.2in wheels.

It all started with a special Yokomo wheel / tyre made for the '89 Worlds. Back then all our wheels were 2in, but Yokomo used a loophole in the rules (which governed the outer diameter of the tyre) to make a low profile dirt tyre on a 2.2in wheel. Oh, and the wheels were pink.

After dominating the Worlds, everyone HAD to have 2.2in wheels, in pink. Never mind that the only 2.2 tyres were the Yokomo dirt ones, irrelevant to UK racing. We used to stretch and trim 2in Schumacher cut spikes to get them on to the 2.2in rims. In the end Schumacher had to start making tyres in the new size.

This is relevant today. As soon as people decide Evo format wheels are 'the next big thing' they will do all they can to make them work, and companies like Schumacher will have to adapt or lose customers.

Of course if they are comprehensively banned from major level racing, they are a lot less like to become 'the next big thing' so this might be irrelevant after all.

[racingdwarf]

Originally Posted by Col

That would be just your track then - both RHR and Storm Valley are proline only!

Ah bloody hell, just pinged an Email over to AKA about that, they are gutted now I told them, going to ditch the who Idea now they found that out


stand corrected, we were proline only to, but this said I strongly suspect a holeshot would fit the new rim better than they fit some of our current rims, but until someone has actually tried in person I just don't know, but there is way more give and pliability in a set of holeshots than in a set of minispikes.

But the point of my post has only been understood by one, The UK market is irrelevant if the rest of the world want these wheels they would come weather we like it or not, thus why the BRCA are smart to grab on to the IFMAR rule now rather than deal with the shit storm that would happen if they had to make the rules up themselves at the last minute to keep up with what manufacturers were making and BRCA control tyres not fitting. And as said in si Coe post,if the wheels work racers will want them UK's market will just have to keep up like it or not.

Both Mugen and kyosho made an educated gamble with the uk market by dumping UK importers,it was a risk, but it showed how small our market is for that risk to be worth taking,Tamiya always show us how small we are

Just have to wait and see what goes on, just my view on it, may never happen eh,

[neallewis]

Originally Posted by racingdwarf

But the point of my post has only been understood by one, The UK market is irrelevant if the rest of the world want these wheels they would come weather we like it or not, thus why the BRCA are smart to grab on to the IFMAR rule now rather than deal with the shit storm that would happen if they had to make the rules up themselves at the last minute to keep up with what manufacturers were making and BRCA control tyres not fitting. And as said in si Coe post,if the wheels work racers will want them UK's market will just have to keep up like it or not.

Both Mugen and kyosho made an educated gamble with the uk market by dumping UK importers,it was a risk, but it showed how small our market is for that risk to be worth taking,Tamiya always show us how small we are

Just have to wait and see what goes on, just my view on it, may never happen eh,

No really I understood your point as well. It's a fair point made. I guess I missed: they are irrelevant to the UK market "now" ;-)

Has anyone spoken to Paul Worsley for his take on it?

AKA are Kyosho/Orion. I do see the likes of proline and jconcept fighting it out though, however if they are loosing sales to a well performing product, they will follow suit. I see they are allowed at the cactus classic with AKA sponsored drivers running them.

I actually think it looks like a decent method of attachment and can only prove better than some of the badly fitting wheels/tyres that we current use. Schumacher tyres on xray xb4 wheels are particularly badly fitting. The tyre bead sits higher than the rim, and you've a big gap to fill with glue.

[spenner]

Looks like irrelevant became very relevant...

Aka, pro line and jconcepts are all running the new wheels at the cactus!

Just a matter of time now before we all see this as the norm I would guess, sadly if they all start doing it then someone somewhere has to back down.

[terry.sc]

Originally Posted by spenner

Looks like irrelevant became very relevant...

Aka, pro line and jconcepts are all running the new wheels at the cactus!

The wheels will only be relevant in the UK when they fit Schumacher minipins and minispikes, unless you think AKA are going to come up with a tyre that is better than Schumachers on astro and clubs are going to choose it as their spec tyre.

If anyone wants to experiment with AKA style wheels, why not try just trimming the outer lips off a standard 2.2" wheel.

[DCM]

Clubs have a spec tyre for club racing???

Aren't a lot of the American tyre manufacturers making 'carpet spec' tyres to, so it would only be a matter of time before someone tries them, and if they work and are quicker....

[racingdwarf]

Originally Posted by terry.sc

The wheels will only be relevant in the UK when they fit Schumacher minipins and minispikes, unless you think AKA are going to come up with a tyre that is better than Schumachers on astro and clubs are going to choose it as their spec tyre.

If anyone wants to experiment with AKA style wheels, why not try just trimming the outer lips off a standard 2.2" wheel.

yer, but if all cars/wheels from TLR and AE, proline etc only produced in this style and more importantly size in years to come we in the uk could have a tricky problem that schumacker tyres only fit Schumacher rims, This could work well in the uk for schumacher, as to race in a brca event you need to run a schumacher car

[smokes]

I Still don't see the advantages of the evo rim. It may be easier to glue but you lose the security that external bead gives especially if you don't get the glue evenly on between the rim and the tyre. The bead is there to stop tyre rolling of the rim as the vehicle turns in a corner. The internal bead is there to stop the tyre bead rolling in on itself as the is no internal pressure or a steel ply to control the tyre profile. the glue is there to bond the tyre bead to the wheel bead but not take any of the forces.

You also really don't want to use the super glue in a shear condition the cryanoacrylate glue peel strength isn't that great.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanoacrylate

You would have to use something like an aircraft grade glue that has a higher peel strength to perform the task of the external bead.

I would love to see the design calcs they have actually done to calculate how much load the bond will be under. And how much interference pressure the undersized rubber internal diameter and the over size rim dimeter will generate. Based on the rubber shore ratings used.

My guess is unless you are very good at gluing the tyres the EVO design will not be as good as having an external bead.

[racingdwarf]

I agree that of our UK standard tyres the rim style we have at this time works well, And the new design has no real advantage, but for the softer dirt style tyres I think it is better for all the reasons AKA states for ease of glueing.

I'm no design engineer but I understand your point about glues, the only thing I can say is this style of rim has been used in 1/8th rallx for quite some time by most manufacturers and those tyres take some load and balloon on the straight to such an extent you really can't believe the glue can hold them but it does.

I'm not saying these wheels are any better and that we should have them, or that the wheels we use are a problem.But I can see the advantage to other racers in the rest of the world, thus the reason why we may end up seeing them as the standard wheel design. IF and only if that happens the question at the start of the thred was kind of Hmm if this wheel is the norm were does this leave us with the tyres we mostly use in the uk that if stretched to fit will go out of shape.

[terry.sc]

Originally Posted by racingdwarf

yer, but if all cars/wheels from TLR and AE, proline etc only produced in this style and more importantly size in years to come we in the uk could have a tricky problem that schumacker tyres only fit Schumacher rims, This could work well in the uk for schumacher, as to race in a brca event you need to run a schumacher car

If all cars from TLR and AE only had AKA size wheels and no other company made wheels to fit them, no TLR or AE cars would be race legal for ROAR and IFMAR events. Never going to happen.

Now if by chance the buggy manufacturers do persuade ROAR and IFMAR to change their current rules, and then only make wheels to the new size so preventing racers using the tyres they are familiar with, and changing the axles so old wheels won't fit on them, the only way you wouldn't be able to fit 2.2" tyres is if DE Racing, Proline, RPM, JConcepts, JC Racing, Fastrax, Ballistic Buggy, Schumacher and others decide not to bother making 2.2" wheels for an obvious market for them. There will always be several options to fit 2.2" tyres to buggies whatever the manufacturers do.