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  #441  
Old 16-08-2015
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SlowOne, like your story of the greats working magic with someone else's tools, there will be stories at the other end of the scale too.

The stories that you have exampled are people who have "got there" not a journey of "how" they got there... This is what's up for discussion, not the finished article. Until such time someone takes a hand picked spectrum of total novices and takes them through an identical journey building their driving, nothing can be known for sure. That goes for all sports... It's not been done. All we have is sporting bodies trying to apply the same strategies to juniors etc but each individual still has a "home" coach and advisories that sit outside these bodies which influence, therefore still not delivering the same journey. To me, this voyage of discovery and exploration in learning something new is really fascinating, and the consensus of people saying you have it or you don't just doesn't pan out to be true, not just in this hobby but in any vocation.... "I" have hundreds of stories for every one that suggests you "have it or you don't", theory.

We all have faith and beliefs, That's what makes us all different, those stead fast in "you've got it or you haven't" is a mindset, and we all know the power of mindsets!! ��

Last edited by stucartwright; 16-08-2015 at 08:54 AM.
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  #442  
Old 16-08-2015
Bosscat Bosscat is offline
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Slow One,
You mention the Hirosaka 13.5 in glowing terms I see that this is made by Speed Pasion so the obvious question then is, is it any better than an SP 13.5??
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  #443  
Old 16-08-2015
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They were selling off the Hirosaka engine cheap on the Zen website... Take that as you want, but I got the Trinity D4 Maxzilla and goes like stink off a shovel!
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  #444  
Old 16-08-2015
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Default God given talent!

There are many instances in all competitive activities were shear hard work and determination have created winners, the true lasting champions though do not have to work as hard to achieve success.

Ronnie Peterson was a winner as soon as he took to a race track and what a sad loss he was, so early in what would have been a glittering career!
Most of the motor racing greats were too but Nigel Mansell was a talented grafter who demonstrated that shear hard work and determination can succeed once he got himself into a decent car through his hard graft!

Usain Bolt, a truly natural champion no doubt about that one, assuming he is clean of course!!! Mike Gatlin mmm I wonder?
The only trouble with athletic sport champions we never know if they have resorted to 'cheating' sadly and the recent disclosures on the suppressed blood analysis results of recent and past Olympic competitors and champions only stirs this distasteful mire!

Andy Murray a very talented grafter who wins but Novak Djokovic a true natural champion as was Federer, Sampras et al!

When it comes to our hobby though, I have witnessed and raced against many talented drivers some of whom have achieved success but the 'true' lasting champions are limited, Andy Griffiths is certainly one of those of recent years along with David Spashett etc and I apologise for not listing the others of the 'few'!

It is only when you attend a national or international event of any model car category that you witness the great, the good and the rest, true God given talent shines through!

As for me, lower half of the rest, with patches of past moderate lower finals success but that is OK for me and in my senior years, just fun with hopefully some glimpse of success!!!

For you youngsters, go for it, you never know, you may be a budding great but you will soon find out and it won't take 10,000 hours, your first national will give you a clue!
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  #445  
Old 16-08-2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stucartwright View Post
They were selling off the Hirosaka engine cheap on the Zen website... Take that as you want, but I got the Trinity D4 Maxzilla and goes like stink off a shovel!
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Originally Posted by Bosscat View Post
Slow One,
You mention the Hirosaka 13.5 in glowing terms I see that this is made by Speed Pasion so the obvious question then is, is it any better than an SP 13.5??
well the trinity is manufactured by speed passion too, and they have their new speed passion v4... let you work the numbers out
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  #446  
Old 18-08-2015
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Originally Posted by mark christopher View Post
the top team drivers are running 40 front and 35 rear, track dependent with green front and yellow outer rear springs.
I tried it and it was way to direct for me, I found 45 or 47 Max on the front and 35 or 37 rear. My preference was blue rear green front.

Throw the 50/60 away as grip comes up you want a softer tyre, just supeglue the side wall outer rto stop grip roll, hardly anyone run those tyres and with the LRC kit you loose front steering hence a softer tyre.
Hi Mark why do you say to go softer when the grip comes up? My intuition says more grip on track = harder tyre? What about the amount of additive that you apply to the fronts as the meeting goes on? Do you back it off gradually or keep it constant but tame it with superglue?

Cheers,
James
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  #447  
Old 18-08-2015
SlowOne SlowOne is offline
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James, a softer foam tyre is different to a softer rubber tyre.

Usually, rubber tyres have the same sidewall flex irrespective of compound. Generally, whether TC or Off-Road, the insert remains the same even if the rubber changes. On a foam tyre, when you change the compound you change the sidewall flex.

When grip comes up you want the car to be soft enough to roll into the corner. That way, the CofG is lowered as you roll and the car will not try to roll over. A softer foam tyre has a more flexible sidewall so it has the same effect as fitting a softer spring allowing the car to roll more, allowing the CofG to be lower and resisting rollover.

A softer sidewall will also allow the tread to flex more. That allows the tyre to 'squirm' a bit on the track which makes it easier to drive - it is more forgiving between grip and slip. Going to a hard tyre will reverse all of this, making the car more inclined to roll and leaving a fine line between grip and slip that makes the car dart and harder to control.

The foam insert on a rubber tyre controls the flex and the sidewall 'give' so changing the compound and not the insert gives you a direct comparison between grip and tyre grade. More heat and more grip means a harder tyre works, but not when using foam tyres!

Foam tyres will give you grip all the way across the tread and down the sidewall! Superglue on the sidewalls up to the point where it meets the tread means that the car won't grip and try to roll over. I use it all the time and it works fine - the car is predictable and won't surprise you.

Additive would take a novel to explain. Here's the one-minute version...

On low-grip carpets, use SXT or Spider Blue. Always coat the rears full width, and start with half width (on the inside) for the fronts. Up that width if you need more steering.

On high-grip carpets Spider Green will work better. For a large event, start on SXT/Blue and when the car starts to feel a bit edgy, go to Green. Avoid Green on low-grip tracks as it will 'burn off' and leave you with not grip at the end of the race.

Start at 30 minutes soak time on the rears, and 15 minutes on the fronts. As the grip comes up you can back that off to 20 minutes rear and 10 minutes fronts. Dry the tyres off with a towel so that it is standing for one heat before you race. Never go on the track with wet tyres. The car should not slip and slide around at the beginning of a race, more drying time if it does! During the race a car will change its grip slightly as it licks up grip from the track. If it changes a lot then your additive regime is at fault - change the soak time and increase the standing time before you race, and think about changing the additive.

You have to experiment as the application of additive is a key part of the car's grip and handling. Find a regime that suits you and your car. There are no hard and fast rules for finding that last few tenths, so start here and see what works for you.

I am sure others can add to this with their experiences. Those might be different to this but where additive is concerned they are usually valid and worth trying. Note what works on what track with what tyres and you'll get the hang of it soon enough. HTH

Last edited by SlowOne; 18-08-2015 at 08:26 PM.
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  #448  
Old 19-08-2015
Gmez Gmez is offline
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Thanks SlowOne, that's very interesting to know. I've only been racing for just under a year so still lots to learn!

I'm always a little wary now of grip roll, especially after my first regional at Frodsham where the car felt great for the first 2 heats and then wanted to topple over at the same corner for the rest of the day. So by going harder on the tyres I probably made it worse. It was definitely a learning experience in judging how much the grip increases throughout the day of a big meeting. I thought I'd learnt from that for the next one at Crewe and went harder as the day went on to try to pre-empt the increasing grip and the car felt consistent throughout the day but I guess it was just luck!

I know experience will count in judging how much additive to use in combination with superglue but it's difficult to always know that you've put enough on when you've got the increasing track grip to confound things. A few times recently I've used superglue but then found I've had a little too much understeer. We'll just have to see how it goes at Sunday's regional at Morecambe and learn!

Cheers,
James
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  #449  
Old 19-08-2015
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Can anyone recommend a lipo I could do with a new one and can't decide witch ones best.
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  #450  
Old 19-08-2015
Kusal Kusal is offline
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Hi all,
No tyre additive is allowed at our carpet track. What would be a good starting point for a SSGT for tyres?
Or will this be a lost battle (hope not because I am enjoying the car a lot)?
Thx
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  #451  
Old 19-08-2015
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Kit tyres is a good starting point.

We don't run additive at our club, and kit tyres work perfectly.
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  #452  
Old 19-08-2015
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Can anyone recommend a lipo I could do with a new one and can't decide witch ones best.
Vapextech
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  #453  
Old 20-08-2015
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+1 for Vapextech, had mine for two years and can't tell them apart from my factory spec Balls Out cells, also don't see a difference in internal resistance between the two different cells.
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  #454  
Old 20-08-2015
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Blue and yellow car on pole is me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4wrTvbq4As

40 fronts, 32 rears, green front spring, white rear on outer holes (our track is very bumpy) full additive rear and about 60% front.

I need to make a set of 35's up (chunked one and then the replacements came mounted 1 on a rear wheel and one on a front) to try that setup as well.
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  #455  
Old 21-08-2015
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Hey chaps

Lovely to see so many new people getting involved this thread and asking questions, using the brains that have offered up so much in the way of experience and expertise. Top stuff...

Progress report from me; yep you guessed it... Thursday night means Maritime night. Yet another top night and more learned.

The week before I was lucky enough to marshal right next to the top driver at Maritime who seems to never miss, so whilst this is not liked, I watched his stick action for a couple of laps, (I know I should have been watching the track, but I wasn't, so sea with it hahaha) This driver in question used his brakes on on almost four corners which absolutely shocked me. It wasn't much, after seeing his stick control and the notices what corners these brakes were applied I didn't see the car obviously locking up and wriggling through the corners...

SlowOne, would you say this is recommended? It seems like it goes right against the idea of keeping all the energy in the car and balanced, if you only going to slam on the brakes and unsettle it quite a bit. Then last night, I heard another top 3 driver talking about brakes etc... I didn't try it, although many would as it seems a plague in this RC world, "if the top driver do it, then it should be done" but I thought slightly more laterally... And fed he throttle a little more.

What I means is, instead of shutting the throttle off and coasting into a corner, waiting for the corner to pass and then accelerating out the other side, but having too much speed essentially because the coast would happen too late, I just eased off the throttle, so the speed dropped slightly and then fed the throttle through the corner, the turn in was like night and day!!! Holy moly, it grabbed at quite an alarming rate and hugged the carpet that much better and I in turn carried more speed.

What is really hard is the ability to ease off the throttle slightly earlier than normal but keep the throttle on, than keeping the throttle down for longer and then totally shut it off, hope this is making sense, when there is a car up your bum. What I found, I lost the car behind coming out the bend as my lines were better and exit speed improved, more balanced car, happier driver!!

I can't say I managed to do this with any great consistency but jeepers, I chopped off .8 off my best lap time from the week before and managed to once again qualify for the A final! In the A final, out of qualifying 10th on the grid, I whipped past a few and held off some worthy drivers to finish 5th, on yet another productive night. Awesome!!

West Kent on Sunday for some more action, will keep you informed! Haha thoughts on all this waffle, as usual, gratefully received.

Over and out.
Stu
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  #456  
Old 21-08-2015
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Hey chaps

Lovely to see so many new people getting involved this thread and asking questions, using the brains that have offered up so much in the way of experience and expertise. Top stuff...

Progress report from me; yep you guessed it... Thursday night means Maritime night. Yet another top night and more learned.

The week before I was lucky enough to marshal right next to the top driver at Maritime who seems to never miss, so whilst this is not liked, I watched his stick action for a couple of laps, (I know I should have been watching the track, but I wasn't, so sea with it hahaha) This driver in question used his brakes on on almost four corners which absolutely shocked me. It wasn't much, after seeing his stick control and the notices what corners these brakes were applied I didn't see the car obviously locking up and wriggling through the corners...

SlowOne, would you say this is recommended? It seems like it goes right against the idea of keeping all the energy in the car and balanced, if you only going to slam on the brakes and unsettle it quite a bit. Then last night, I heard another top 3 driver talking about brakes etc... I didn't try it, although many would as it seems a plague in this RC world, "if the top driver do it, then it should be done" but I thought slightly more laterally... And fed he throttle a little more.

What I means is, instead of shutting the throttle off and coasting into a corner, waiting for the corner to pass and then accelerating out the other side, but having too much speed essentially because the coast would happen too late, I just eased off the throttle, so the speed dropped slightly and then fed the throttle through the corner, the turn in was like night and day!!! Holy moly, it grabbed at quite an alarming rate and hugged the carpet that much better and I in turn carried more speed.

What is really hard is the ability to ease off the throttle slightly earlier than normal but keep the throttle on, than keeping the throttle down for longer and then totally shut it off, hope this is making sense, when there is a car up your bum. What I found, I lost the car behind coming out the bend as my lines were better and exit speed improved, more balanced car, happier driver!!

I can't say I managed to do this with any great consistency but jeepers, I chopped off .8 off my best lap time from the week before and managed to once again qualify for the A final! In the A final, qualifying 10th on the grid, I whipped past a few and held off some worthy drivers to finish 5th, on yet another productive night. Awesome!!

West Kent on Sunday for some more action, will keep you informed! Haha thoughts on all this waffle, as usual, gratefully received.

Over and out.
Stu
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  #457  
Old 21-08-2015
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Stuart,

Take it you have never done full Motorsport or a track day?

Using brakes to get the correct t entry speed is essential for quick times, also you use them to balance the car. Take a look at f1 cars or touring, glowing orange brakes disapationg energy, to get that line right, wrc cars balancing the car with the left foot to get car on the apex.
Too much brakes is a handbrake turn, just the eight amount is faster. Non is slower on corners which lead from high speed to slow.
F1 use lift and coast now, its not the quickest, but it saves brakes and fuel, something we don't need to .
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  #458  
Old 21-08-2015
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Mark, I've done plenty of Track days thanks... Just to be official, and if you hadn't noticed, I don't wish to converse with you on any forum going forwards. Thanks.
Maybe you're different in person, in which case when I meet you at a national maybe that will change.
Best Wishes
Stuart.
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  #459  
Old 21-08-2015
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I agree with you Stuart I only use the brakes a few corners a lap hairpins, at the end of the straight. I tend to just come off the throttle then turn in I find that turning in scrubs the speed of and as soon as the cars turned in I'm back on the throttle. I've not done any nationals but from the club nites I've done I come out on top top.
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  #460  
Old 21-08-2015
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Good to know Joker, and especially from a top driver, like yourself .Where do you run buddy?
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