Martin Achter provisional pole - 2009 IFMAR Worlds - Page 3

bbq · #41 07-10-2009

chazz

Finland is one of the worlds biggest motor sport countries in the world.
They are a small country but they earn alot of respect, they have prodused more world champions them most countries. just look at what they have done in F1 and Rally.

I will say that The Euros there in 2007 is the best event i have seen in my 20 years racing, they deserv to have the worlds 2011.
But i think that IFMAR should act like the Olympic comite and see were could we have a kick as worlds and hav it there otherwice we will have bad pr races like this years WC.

CODMAN · #42 07-10-2009

I understand where you're coming from Chazz. I've seen that too often... At the begining non profit organisations do a great job, run by passionate people often racers themselves... Then beaurocracy sets in...

I don,t know how it is around your parts, but around here, to get local media interested in covering "marginal" events like these, you basically have to do everything for them or they won't do it! i had to write articles about my local mountain bike club, which I,d give to the local paper and they'd print it as their own... or they wouldn't do it... That saps a lot of energy out of people and organisations... Just to get some coverage.

Nevertheless, non-profit organisations cannot make decisions about calendars/ rules and whatever solely based on market related considerations. They need to look beyond that. And having major events like these, in underdeveloped markets does a lot for stimulating local interest (believe me, it does) and expanding the sport. It doesn't bring in big bucks and isn't the best for manufacturers, but thats not what they are about...

I've seen non-profit organisations take the "lucrative route" making decisions based on what will bring in more cash, rather than what is best for their cause... The oranisation basically turns to making decisions that are in their best interest, rather than the causes... Greenpeace comes to mind... It's sad, but it does happen... regularly...

Anyways, I'm kind of glad the IFMARs are small this year. And I hope the fans will "boo" the big manufacturers for boycotting them on such bogus excuses...

Just my 0.02$ (or that would be 1 pence I believe????

).

Quote:

Originally Posted by YoungChazz

I want to make certain everybody understands I mean no disrespect whatever for the people of S.A. or Finland, or for their countries. Both are truly among the world's most wonderful and beautiful places -- I could happily live there -- and their peoples are warm, friendly, intelligent. We have a wonderful Dealer in each country, and I would be an idiot to put them or their customers down in any way. My unhappiness is directed solely at the organizing bodies.

Can I think that the worlds should not be held in those places and still think they are great people and wonderful places? Certainly. The fact that those countries have small populations and, in my opinion therefore should not have two WC events so close together while major countries like U.K. have none does not change my respect for those places and people or my desire to sell our products there.

I realize IFMAR is non-profit, Codman, but you said it yourself: "their job is ... to promote the sport." My point exactly.

I have much experience of ROAR, and a bit of IFMAR, and the two seem remarkably similar. I have never been to a ROAR or IFMAR event where they even had a press kit for the local media, and that includes National Championship events where ROAR's Promotions Director was present. I have been to a number of non-ROAR events where the local newspaper and/or TV station was invited to send a reporter, and the result has been two long newspaper articles with pix and two segments on TV, one in the main newscast and one in the weather. Both were repeated twice that night.

A friend of mine is a former morning drive radio personality from the LA market, one of America's biggest. We have discussed the type of promotions that could be run to help R/C grow through free media exposure. An overall organizing group, similar to ROAR or NASCAR has to come up with the promotions and do the leg work. I have suggested this to ROAR on several occasions, and have been completely rebuffed every time. I have even volunteered to do the work for free. No.

If R/C is to grow, especially R/C racing, the sanctioning body, profit-making or not, must do the work. IFMAR and ROAR have completely dropped the ball. In reality, they don't even know the ball exists...

Dawn Sanchez · #43 07-10-2009

Chazz - forgive my bluntness.... HORSE HOCKEY.

Its so interesting to read how some folks condemn so quickly. If you have issues with ROAR, then do it somewhere ROAR is and not told to visit to find out your own self gratifying comments of importance.

You know how to reach me.

YoungChazz · #44 08-10-2009

Whether Finland has a lot of F1 and Rally drivers or not (they do!) is immaterial. Finland also produced Jukka, a 2-time winner.

I stand by my points:

1) There is no way S.A. and Finland both should have two WCs while U.S. & Japan get one and U.K., Germany, Australia have none. Makes no sense at all.

2) All this amateur stuff is nice. But wouldn't it be far better to have a thousand fans paying $5.00 each for tickets to sit in the grandstand for every National? Perhaps entry fees would go down...

Wouldn't it be better for all kinds of products outside R/C to spend money on even E-main guys? (The back markers in NASCAR all have multi-million $$ sponsorships, and there are the Craftsman trucks along with with ARCA series.) Here in the U.S. there are local tracks all over the country, and every Tom, Dick, and Harry races there on Friday and Saturday nights. Those guys all get at least some help from their local auto parts store or pub.

Why can't we do the same? Why is this sport, perfect for TV with five minutes of action followed by a two minute commercial break, not on ESPN 2 every night at 2AM?

Yes, to start it takes somebody from that volunteer organization to write the press releases, and it's great one guy did that. Needs to continue! It takes somebody to invite the reporters out to the event and show them around, tell then where to get the best pix, help them understand what is going on. Maybe even let them drive a car during a break. These media guys are human, they want to be catered to. Those who do it reap rewards in the long run.

3) Dawn, I make reference to the 2003 Stock Nationals -- I am aware of no effort at all there to court the media as above. No press kit lying around in the hotel or at registration that I ever saw. And there were some long, carefully written posts on HobbyTalk where you and others dissed me pretty good. In at least one of them I volunteered to work free and asked to be contacted. Nobody ever did.

I'd like to flesh out my ideas for improving the organization and sanctioning of this hobby with you in person, not here. The discussion between you and me needs to take place elsewhere, perhaps in Scottsdale in March.

For those who may not know, Dawn is President of ROAR.

Sure am glad this terrible attendance at S.A. has led to spirited discussion, and, I hope, to improvements in the way our sport/hobby/business is run.

jimmy · #45 08-10-2009

But on another topic entirely - Congratulations to Martin Achter, the new IFMAR 2WD World Champion. You have to be there to win it - Martin had the balls to go and race in a sport he clearly loves, what bigger promotion is there than that.

stegger · #46 08-10-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmy

But on another topic entirely - Congratulations to Martin Achter, the new IFMAR 2WD World Champion. You have to be there to win it - Martin had the balls to go and race in a sport he clearly loves, what bigger promotion is there than that.

What car was he running jimmy, it will be interesting to see if the manufacturer of that car advertises as winning the 2WD WC !!!

Dundermuffen · #47 08-10-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by YoungChazz

Whether Finland has a lot of F1 and Rally drivers or not (they do!) is immaterial. Finland also produced Jukka, a 2-time winner.

I stand by my points:

1) There is no way S.A. and Finland both should have two WCs while U.S. & Japan get one and U.K., Germany, Australia have none. Makes no sense at all.

2) All this amateur stuff is nice. But wouldn't it be far better to have a thousand fans paying $5.00 each for tickets to sit in the grandstand for every National? Perhaps entry fees would go down...

Wouldn't it be better for all kinds of products outside R/C to spend money on even E-main guys? (The back markers in NASCAR all have multi-million $$ sponsorships, and there are the Craftsman trucks along with with ARCA series.) Here in the U.S. there are local tracks all over the country, and every Tom, Dick, and Harry races there on Friday and Saturday nights. Those guys all get at least some help from their local auto parts store or pub.

Why can't we do the same? Why is this sport, perfect for TV with five minutes of action followed by a two minute commercial break, not on ESPN 2 every night at 2AM?

Yes, to start it takes somebody from that volunteer organization to write the press releases, and it's great one guy did that. Needs to continue! It takes somebody to invite the reporters out to the event and show them around, tell then where to get the best pix, help them understand what is going on. Maybe even let them drive a car during a break. These media guys are human, they want to be catered to. Those who do it reap rewards in the long run.

3) Dawn, I make reference to the 2003 Stock Nationals -- I am aware of no effort at all there to court the media as above. No press kit lying around in the hotel or at registration that I ever saw. And there were some long, carefully written posts on HobbyTalk where you and others dissed me pretty good. In at least one of them I volunteered to work free and asked to be contacted. Nobody ever did.

I'd like to flesh out my ideas for improving the organization and sanctioning of this hobby with you in person, not here. The discussion between you and me needs to take place elsewhere, perhaps in Scottsdale in March.

For those who may not know, Dawn is President of ROAR.

Sure am glad this terrible attendance at S.A. has led to spirited discussion, and, I hope, to improvements in the way our sport/hobby/business is run.

As most americans you are a patriot and nothing is good enought for your exept your own country. It is the worlds, and it is to be placed all over the world. And since Finland and S.A. gets it 2 times and USA only once, S.A. and Finland probably did a better job than USA the last worlds.

The fact is that american top drivers do not want to race in another country. When it was announced that Thailand would get the next 1/8th worlds the americans didnt like that at all and again, blamed it on the safety. Thailand is a very nice and safe country and they have no reason saying that.

Americans dont want to race outside of U.S.A. since the tracks are so different. In the rest of the world we dont build tracks whats all about full trottle and jumps, we build tecnical tracks which dont suit the american driving style. Instead of going there and taking the loss as a man, they blame it on safety reasons.

You, Chazz, are a pathetic patriot.

Gayo · #48 08-10-2009

I see nothing patriotic on Chazz words. What I see is that you are a US hater.

The Worlds have to be on another block (continent) every 2 years. So it's one time on North America (usually the US), once in Europe, once in Asia, once in Africa and so on.
SA being the major RC country in Africa, I see nothing shocking in the fact that they hosted the WC 2 times in 10 years.

Darren Boyle · #49 08-10-2009

I have to agree with Jimmy that this is not really the time nor the place for this type of discussion, it is about the worlds that DID take place and well done to Martin with his win.

However, I think many of the "off topic" comments and critiscms on here are "harsh" to say the least regards individuals opinons and the organisations.

Chazz's main point is agreeing with most of you but you all seem to miss his it IMHO. He is stating that if it is a "Worlds" then it needs to move around the "World" more frequent. To have two meetings in one country (twice - SA and Finland) in a relative short space of time when other "larger" countries have had just one or in the case of his examples (Germany and UK) have had none does seem strange. I do not agree that we should go to the USA five out of ten times thgough, however they probably do deserve 2 or 3 from 10 (these could still be thousands of miles apart due to the vast size of the US, almost like racing in different countries).

I dont see the point regarding Finland as a dig at them as a country at all, but I think the main point is that Finland have "had" their chance recently and now that oppurtunity needs to pass to another EU country top have their "turn" the next time around and so on. Italy also had their chance recently too so we should look to another (superb) EU country who can offer its services to lay on a meeting to the same high standards as those provided already by Finland. That is NOT a dig at Finalnd, its heritage, its racing history or anything like that....

Lets not forget where the worlds "Have" and indded "Have not" been already, over the 24 years that the worlds have run (this years is the 13th championship) it has only visited 7 countries (not exactly all over the world - USA 4 times, UK/Japan/SA twice each, Australia/Finland/Italy once each so far) Is it not about time we see soem othjer fantastic coutnroies other than going back to the same ones - Germany, Spain, France, Canada, New Zealand etc to name just a few..

A reminder of where the worlds where and who won etc

1985 - California, USA (J Halsey/Stock AE - G Losi Jr/Mod Yokomo)
1987 - Romsey, UK (J Johnson/2wd Kyosho - M Hirosaka/4wd Schumacher)
1989 - St.Ives, Australia (M Hirosaka/2wd AE - M Hirosaka/4wd Yokomo)
1991 - Detroit, USA (M Hirosaka/2wd AE - C Lett/4wd Yokomo)
1993 - Basildon, UK (B Kinwald/2wd AE - M Hirosaka/4wd Yokomo)
1995 - Yatabe, Japan (M Francis/2wd AE - M Hirosaka/4wd Yokomo)
1997 - California, USA (B Kinwald/2wd Losi - M Hirosaka/4wd Yokomo)
1999 - Rauma, Finland (M Hirosaka/2wd AE - J Steenari/4wd Losi)
2001 - Pretoria, SA (M Francis/2wd Losi - J Steenari/4wd Losi)
2003 - Florida, USA (B Easton/2wd AE - R Cavalieri/4wd Losi)
2005 - Collegno, Italy (N Cragg/2wd AE - R Cavalieri/4wd J Concepts)
2007 - Ishikawa, Japan (H Matsuzaki/2wd AE - J Tebo/4wd AE)
2009 - Pretoria, SA (M Achter/2wd AE - 4wd????????)

To agree with Chazz, to follow that sequence it should really be the USA next, followed by Europe then Asia etc, but a different country each time in my opinion too where possible.

But lets not forget.........

WELL DONE to the NEW 2009 2wd WORLD CHAMPION !! CONGRATULATIONS MARTIN !!!

Dundermuffen · #50 08-10-2009

Oh, I forgot that too: GRATZ TO MARTIN!!

If your not in - you cant win.

lochness42 · #51 08-10-2009

Each region has voting on where will be Worlds held.
It's not choice of one country, choice of all countries in federation and they choose from countries that are willing to do Worlds.
As I see it in Europe - there aren't many countries that said - well we will do it, or they aren't better than Finland.
Personally I don't see anything wrong about doing Worlds twice in decade in same country - if it's great race.
Also I don't think that any federation (Efra, Roar, Femca, Famar) should have more races than other as long as they are capable to organise race that deserves to be called Worlds (without influence of boycotting drivers - that's something that organisers can't change).

geerno · #52 08-10-2009

I don't think the analogy between RC racing and NASCAR holds water.

NASCAR drivers go out and risk their lives, and their sponsors support that.

RC racers and their sponsors seem like a bunch of scared girly boys who are sitting in offices, driving SUV's or on their couches whilst the World Champs is on

You can't compare

isobarik · #53 08-10-2009

I´ll bet Martin is pleased an the rest of you is complainin.

And yes i will go to finland regardles if i drive or not since its very close to me ( driving distance )
And i have raced in finland many times in the past and they have always done an great job. When i think about it i belive that i have made more races in finland then in sweden since its so close to me.

And yes if im driving i will surley not win.

But i still think its funny that uk just has got it twice and the last time was -93

When Sweden held the world champ in 1/8 there where some complains about the track heard none for the drivers but from higher people.

You race on what you are coming to different countries use different materials and thats it.

I remember back in 96 the swedes didnt participated in the onroad championship since it was 1/12 scale on asphalt. If I had known that sooner I would hade gone to the states and have had a lots of fun.
I drove 1/12 scale on asphalt for years for training and i got very irritated when i asked for tires and got explaind to me that it should not been done.

A friend of mine from finland went to us 96 and came back with an associated 1/11 he finished 3 in the b-main i bought the car from him and i still got the car at home.

mvh Isobarik

Orange · #54 08-10-2009

NASCAR pays people to do the marketing. Its their full time job that puts food on the table. The people in the R/C Organisations don't get paid and is done in spare time AND most of them use their personal vacation time to go to these events that are held!! When the time comes that these people are paid for this job, THEN I think it would be fair to blast them when they are not performing. Right now they do it to the best of their ability and I don't think ANY of them are doing a bad job for what is given them. They certainly don't deserve some of the comments on this thread!!

geerno · #55 08-10-2009

Forums are forums.

Orange · #56 08-10-2009

IF people were more involved in the happennings, then people would be more informed... AT every worlds events, ALL racers are welcome to attend the general public meeting IFMAR has. Its posted all over the place at these races and its for any racer to voice concerns or problems. I have been to 2 of these and both times there were only about 6-10 people that showed up. This is your chance to say what you need to say, but you don't go, its more important to go party.

With that said, IFMAR does not seek out information on the message forums. Your chance to speak is at those meetings and if you don't, well they don't know your concerns do they? Too much ennuendos, lies and just sheer crap on meesage forums anyway, I don't blame them!!

Orange · #57 08-10-2009

Congrats to all of the participants at this event!

I'm certainly glad that IFMAR decided to move on and run this event without all the pre-madonnas.

Rocking Donkey · #58 08-10-2009

I think some people have missed the point. Holding a World Championships in a country shouldn't mean that the citizens of that country are the only people to attend! Looking at the list of honours, it is usually the worlds best driver at the time that wins irrespective of where it is held.

Look at the 1/10th onroad worlds. It doesn't matter what country its held in, the same drivers and teams attend, usually to the warm-ups too. I think when Chazz says that he doesn't want to stump up the cash to send their team to the worlds thats fair enough, they are a small team and that is understandable. What is not fair enough is to say that because he doesn't want to foot the bill the Worlds should come to him. That sounds a little bit spoilt to me, and yes, maybe a bit American. I see that no nation has held more Worlds than the USA, but where is Canada on Darren's list?

I think that the point is that there is a world recession at the moment, and if the teams are feeling the pinch, and the amature drivers are feeling the pinch, then its not surprising that people aren't travelling all across the world to race. Every local club I have been to recently is dropping numbers too.

As Chazz says it is all about advertising for the teams. If they are not going to benefit from placing highly at the Worlds, and telling everyone about it on the boxes of their kits, then they won't attend. Maybe it is worth doing something a bit more radical in terms of cost cutting. As most of the top racers and teams now compete in multiple classes, it would no doubt be convenient to host multiple world championships in the same county over consecutive weeks, say 1/10th electric and 1/8th rally cross, so everyone only gets one set of travel costs?

Si Coe · #59 08-10-2009

Actually the point about Finland holding it twice is very valid - its not that no one else in Europe was offered, no-one wanted it.

But thats because in the UK at least there currently is not a single track that meets IFMAR's requirements for 1/10th off road, and nobody wants to stump up the cash in the middle of a recession to make such a track, especially when it will be no use to anyone after the worlds. In other words races will continue to go to places where a track can be found to meet the rules in this case SA and Finland.

As for going to an IFMAR meeting ; held at the worlds eh? Well that means my last chance for 10th off road was 15 years ago wasn't it, because I'm not travelling to SA!

isobarik · #60 08-10-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Si Coe

But thats because in the UK at least there currently is not a single track that meets IFMAR's requirements for 1/10th off road, and nobody wants to stump up the cash in the middle of a recession to make such a track, especially when it will be no use to anyone after the worlds.

Isit because they are mostly made of astro turf or grass ???

mvh isobarik