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  #21  
Old 31-01-2012
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oposite to what chris was saying then!
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  #22  
Old 31-01-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy View Post
copy and paste from my X10 review a few years back -

The front shocks
use a flat flexible disk under the piston, which Ttech describe as a “rebound valve”, the general idea of this seems to be to allow the shocks to react quicker to hits on compression but on rebound the disc would then block the hole in the piston slowing the return slightly. Some people seem to be either taking this off or using it on the other way around, at the top of the piston, slowing the compression and speeding up the rebound, either way its another tuning option.
Which is what I predict is how the MIP ones will work best.
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  #23  
Old 31-01-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RudeTony View Post
We run these on the original Predator car.
Richard Weatherley designed these over ten years ago and were used on Kevin Moores car and William Mitchams etc etc !!!!

Nice idea and works in certain conditions but for the life of me i don't understand the hex part - why would you want oil by passing the piston holes apart from just opening the valve - Strange in my opinion!!
woOdy had them too in 1995 (I think it was) I thought they worked well on the dirt.
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  #24  
Old 31-01-2012
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I agree with chris, iv disassembled and rebuilt shocks for full size racing cars and i cant see a reason why you would want a faster bump than rebound. The shims would want to be on top of the piston so the piston would have the required amount of damping/pack but then a faster reaction on rebound to keep the wheel in contact with the ground for traction. Maybe for some surfaces of touring car racing they could be run the other way round for a slower rate of rebound. As for three way shocks i doubt the internals required could be made so small for rc shocks, this is achieved by having a small bypass tube around the shock with a spring loaded bleed off valve. this would then make for four way adjustable, fast and slow speed bump and rebound. This when you really could tie yourself in knots.
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  #25  
Old 31-01-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickC View Post
I agree with chris, iv disassembled and rebuilt shocks for full size racing cars and i cant see a reason why you would want a faster bump than rebound. The shims would want to be on top of the piston so the piston would have the required amount of damping/pack but then a faster reaction on rebound to keep the wheel in contact with the ground for traction. Maybe for some surfaces of touring car racing they could be run the other way round for a slower rate of rebound. As for three way shocks i doubt the internals required could be made so small for rc shocks, this is achieved by having a small bypass tube around the shock with a spring loaded bleed off valve. this would then make for four way adjustable, fast and slow speed bump and rebound. This when you really could tie yourself in knots.
would on small undulating bump the stiffer up travel not ride bumps, and unsettle the chassis as chris d said? if the shock can react quicker to the smaller bumps the chassis would stay flatter and the wheel in contact with the ground?
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  #26  
Old 01-02-2012
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shim stacks. mmm nice.
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  #27  
Old 03-02-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnM View Post
I'm sure I had something very much like these on my Tamiya Supershot shocks back in '87.
Yes, Tamiya used "Valve seats" in the Hotshot back in 1985. You used them to adjust rebound and compression by placing on either or both sides.

Tamiya Fox had so called "Valve Wafers" the same year. First buggy they released with C.V.A shocks. (Constant Volume Adjustable)
Also used on Super Shot 1986.
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  #28  
Old 07-02-2012
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Shocks are a complicated item on full scale cars and even more complicated on full scale racing cars! Do we really want to take R/C racing to that kind of level? motor Cross etc. Guys on bikes are tying not to break ankles! We are not (unless you don't like marshalls ).

I'm very impressed on my return to RC racing on the quality of new kits and the low price! The MIP option does not look to be a big price tag and will fit right in... all is good so far.

So are they backward? I think not. What is the shock trying to do? Well firstly it's trying to keep the car stable and control the spring so the tires stay on the ground and you get maximum traction. Thus on a sudden hit (upward movement) the spring collapses - if there is to much resistence in the shock/spring combo the suspension wont react fast enough and the tire will bounce over the obsticle resulting in loss of control. Not enough and the suspension will bottom out sending the energy though the chassis and also causing bounce and loss of control. Following upward movement the shock must then control the return rate of the spring to slow it down otherwise you get bounce again. What MIP is trying to do in the image is to let the suspension absorb the upward movement quickly and control the downward movement more progressively.

Thus for tracks with big jumps you could use much heavier oils as there is more flow on the upward movements (through the hex sides and piston holes), without losing finer movements on say moggles or pavers etc. In Aus there are no dead flat sections. The car does not necessarilly need to return to ride height at a blinding rate, other wise it will hop off the surface of the track once again losing traction and control.

The more time the tire is in contact with the surface more traction you have = more acceleration/more steering etc...

In the end it is another tuning option to boggle your brain on that quest to fine tune the car. For me not crashing will be a good start!
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  #29  
Old 07-02-2012
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Its bad enough on the bike, trying to get the rebound, compression, blowoff and lockout settings matched front to rear. God knows how you would manage left to right and front to rear.......
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  #30  
Old 12-02-2012
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As Tony says there's nothing new here, I'm surprised it's taken this long to hit the rc market. Because it's relatively time consuming and difficult to experiment with damping on our cars, there are few people who bother to much, therefore there is relatively little understanding in the sport. 1:1 road cars sometimes have as much as Y value compression damping and Yx2 rebound damping. Racing cars tend to have less as passenger comfort is less important. These pistons will not be right for all racing scales with (for example) a 10mm damper body, the rquirements for buggys and tourers can be quite different. The number and size of the holes that the valve opens and closes will still be critical and have a huge effect on how they perform, as will the thickness of that shim that sits between the circlip and the valve discs. I wonder what happens if you remove a disc too? Ultra precise engineering is crucial for these bits to work properly though. We have been getting there recently with the advent of machined damper pistons but it starts with your shock body and how worn they are. Are things really accurate enough? I wonder. Have you driven your car on the 'wrong' pistons? If you have then you know how much difference it makes and how important it is to get it right. If / when someone hits the sweetspot with these things then they could be killer, however sometimes we are blessed by having a choice of just 3 lol

For what it's worth, I thought big landings were absorbed by springs, diaphrams or compensators and chassis on ground, as the damper travel is often overcome in these circumstances. ie, little point setting up for it. I might be wrong ;-)
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  #31  
Old 12-02-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reflexuk View Post
As Tony says there's nothing new here, I'm surprised it's taken this long to hit the rc market. Because it's relatively time consuming and difficult to experiment with damping on our cars, there are few people who bother to much, therefore there is relatively little understanding in the sport. 1:1 road cars sometimes have as much as Y value compression damping and Yx2 rebound damping. Racing cars tend to have less as passenger comfort is less important. These pistons will not be right for all racing scales with (for example) a 10mm damper body, the rquirements for buggys and tourers can be quite different. The number and size of the holes that the valve opens and closes will still be critical and have a huge effect on how they perform, as will the thickness of that shim that sits between the circlip and the valve discs. I wonder what happens if you remove a disc too? Ultra precise engineering is crucial for these bits to work properly though. We have been getting there recently with the advent of machined damper pistons but it starts with your shock body and how worn they are. Are things really accurate enough? I wonder. Have you driven your car on the 'wrong' pistons? If you have then you know how much difference it makes and how important it is to get it right. If / when someone hits the sweetspot with these things then they could be killer, however sometimes we are blessed by having a choice of just 3 lol

For what it's worth, I thought big landings were absorbed by springs, diaphrams or compensators and chassis on ground, as the damper travel is often overcome in these circumstances. ie, little point setting up for it. I might be wrong ;-)
Dampening Control off a jump is critical to regaining control. The more control you have the easier it will be to get power down again and accellerate. If the car is bucking and kicking sideways and bouncing from chassis slap, you're going to have a hard time.

You've all probably seen this but, have good think about how critical the suspension setup is from go to whoa, traction is critical for acceleration and the landing especially!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SjX7A_FR6g
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  #32  
Old 08-03-2012
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In an area of track where the shim stacks are most active, it looks to me like there could be a 'jacking down' problem.
The more the shim stacks are worked, (i.e. like a fast straight with lots of little bumps) the more 'one way valve' effect is present as there is no rebound stack to compensate.

I believe in full sized motor sport it is common to back off the high speed rebound until you achieve an acceptable ride height at high shock velocity.
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  #33  
Old 08-03-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnM View Post
I'm sure I had something very much like these on my Tamiya Supershot shocks back in '87.

yeah youre memory still serves you well

(spelling)

mvh Isobarik
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  #34  
Old 05-06-2012
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so is anyone using these?? i think i will get a set soon
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  #35  
Old 06-06-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battle_axe View Post
so is anyone using these?? i think i will get a set soon
I think you should learn how to use the normal shocks properly first before you buy these.
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  #36  
Old 06-06-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Welshy40 View Post
I think you should learn how to use the normal shocks properly first before you buy these.
i think you should buy a car that dosnt come from 1908
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