help needed

wingers · #1 04-02-2014

I've finally got around to airbrushing my first shell and it’s not gone well!
I’ve got some ideas as to what some of the problems were but others I'm not so sure so I’m after some advice.

The first problem was the paint being blown around the surface of the shell (is that “spidering”?). This got much worse if I held the airbrush closer, but seemed just about manageable if I held it 15cm or more away from the shell. That was a sort of work-around but I can’t see how any detail work could be completed from that distance so there must be a better way. I guessed that the pressure might be too high so tried reducing it (to less than 20psi) to stop it happening but ended up with lots of large paint droplets coming off the nozzle. I think that’s because the pressure was too low, so I think there must be another problem causing the spidering instead. I also tried reducing the airflow to help stop the spidering, but that only seemed to make the “blobbing” worse.

Another interesting point was that I had to open the nozzle as far as it would go to get any reasonable amount of paint onto the shell. Again this seems odd, and may be a clue as to where I’m going wrong?

I'm using Faskolor paint with a 0.25mm airbrush and sprayed black first (without any real problems) then red, silver, white. The silver and white were by far the worst but red also suffered a little.
I haven’t tried thinning the paint at all but the thicker paints (black) seemed to flow better than the thinner ones (white) so I’m doubtful of that being the right thing to do.

What is a good distance to be spraying from? Looking at some designs that I’ve seen on here I would expect it to be a couple of cm for the detail work, further back for general colour filling.

Wingers

RichyUK · #2 04-02-2014

I'm no expert but I paint quite a bit, so here's my 2 p's worth.

The fact you have to pull the trigger all the way back to get paint out suggests no.1 that the paint is too thick (confirmed by the fact you say you haven't thinned it), and no.2 you've probably got a paint build up inside the nozzle, which gets worse on non thinned paint.

Also, you should be able to spray at around 10 psi for detail work, but the paint needs to be thinned even more for that to work, and that's why you're getting the paint spattering out, as its not atomising because you need more pressure due to the thicker paint.

The spidering you are getting is likely due to you trying to use too high of a pressure. Try thinning the paint and reducing air pressure

Mike Parker · #3 04-02-2014

Where abouts are you doing your painting mate and storing your paints??

If it's in the garage at this time of the year, the cold is a major factor as it thickens up the paint which doesn't help. I go through this everyday at this time of year and there is nothing like it!

I do a couple of things -

I get all the paints I'm to use and stack them on the radiator to warm them through. This helps a great deal - It doesn't matter how much you thin it if the paint is stone cold when your loading up the airbrush.

Also I warm the areas I'm about to paint with a hair dryer as it helps with the initial bond of the first pass with the paint onto the lexan, and with the first coats spray at a relatively low PSI. Keep the hair dryer going as this flashes the WB paints off and will help when building up the coats, this will help stop the spidering

wingers · #4 05-02-2014

Paints are stored in the house and I was painting in the living room!
If you ask the other half she may mention something about paint on the table/walls/TV but those allegations were never proven...

I hadn’t thinned the paint as I was reading some threads on here and people were saying not to do so with the Faskolor paints. The white was slightly thicker than milk but only just. Before seeing these comments, I did try another coat last night with the regulator turned up to 35-40psi, and the flow rate restricted by a separate adjuster on the airbrush. That seemed better, but might have only been better because I was applying paint onto paint, not bare lexan.

I’m surprised that 10psi is the recommendation though, elsewhere I’d read more like 30/40psi and upwards. How much are you thinning the paint to be using that as a pressure?

Wingers

RichyUK · #5 05-02-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingers

Paints are stored in the house and I was painting in the living room!
If you ask the other half she may mention something about paint on the table/walls/TV but those allegations were never proven...

I hadn’t thinned the paint as I was reading some threads on here and people were saying not to do so with the Faskolor paints. The white was slightly thicker than milk but only just. Before seeing these comments, I did try another coat last night with the regulator turned up to 35-40psi, and the flow rate restricted by a separate adjuster on the airbrush. That seemed better, but might have only been better because I was applying paint onto paint, not bare lexan.

I’m surprised that 10psi is the recommendation though, elsewhere I’d read more like 30/40psi and upwards. How much are you thinning the paint to be using that as a pressure?

Wingers

i'll only be that low when building up shadows with very thinned down black so you get a nice fade and less overspray. other than that i'll be up around 30 psi or up to 45/50 for hammering on a large area of colour.

wingers · #6 05-02-2014

OK. If I understand correctly, to do detail work you thin down the paint, reduce pressure and spray from close range. To get more paint down quickly and evenly, you increase pressure, use thicker paint and spray from a greater distance (more like a rattle can finish).

Wingers

cigbunt · #7 05-02-2014

I'm a noob about this but I've had a go.. I found if you gave the shell a light dust the let it dry then your next coat should stick better.

RichyUK · #8 05-02-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingers

OK. If I understand correctly, to do detail work you thin down the paint, reduce pressure and spray from close range. To get more paint down quickly and evenly, you increase pressure, use thicker paint and spray from a greater distance (more like a rattle can finish).

Wingers

pretty much

Its lot of trial and error with what you can get away with, with regards to pressure and how much to thin paint

U1timate PigDog · #9 05-02-2014

I agree with what most are already saying, you will need to thin your paint to work at lower pressures (for apply detailed work) and because your using a pretty small needle I'd say you might even need to thin a touch for normal pressure of between 25-40psi (for me).

If you were using a .5 needle in your brush you would find the paint can be sprayed directly from bottle (when using createx/faskolor). Ive used .35 that was ok but I think smaller you are going to be struggling without thinning.

Not sure spraying in the room is the greatest idea as those paint particles will be floating around everywhere (not great for you), I'd get a decent mask (if you dont already have one) and find yourself somewhere to paint (spare room with some ventilation for clean air/outside brrrrrr this is where I do it, but its much better in the summer lol).

Any how best of luck and let us all know how you get on.

wingers · #10 06-02-2014

I experimented a little more with the black paint and that does seem thinner already. Probably why it was flowing better to start with.
Is it ok to add 50-50 water with the paint or will that wash them out too much to start with?

Another problem I've found is possibly more specific to the Faskolor paints but I've ended up with the white sections turning grey/silver by the time I finished.
I generally paint dark to light, and then back everything with black once I'm done. In the past (rattle cans) that has worked out great and I was really impressed with how the white sections remained bright even with a black backing. This time however, I backed the white with silver and then with black but the end result is that the white has lost its colour and now just looks silver.
I think it was about 4 coats of white, 2 silver and 1 black but that clearly doesn't work. What do I need to do to keep the faskolor white paints looking white?

Wingers

RichyUK · #11 06-02-2014

Simple answer to keep the whites white is to back with white. I use matt white plastikote. works well enough. don't forget your paint is going on way thinner than using rattle cans.

You don't want to thin as much as 50/50, and i'm not sure if plain water works ok for thinning? I just use the proper reducers. I mix the paint in the airbush cup personally, normally a few drops of reducer is enough for most paint.

U1timate PigDog · #12 06-02-2014

yea 50/50 is far too much, normally you can get away with a couple of drops of water/ reducer. Ive used water many times before however reducer definitely is better gives a much smoother spray but water does work fine.

I agree with the above post, you apply paint alot thinner when airbrushing which is why the black is dulling the finish, like suggested back with white if possible, I personally use plasticote super clear for the backing.

wingers · #13 06-02-2014

My first spray can shell was backed with white but it didn't look very good as you could see the white through the windows etc. Also, it showed up wherever there was tape or anything on the inside of the shell. The black backing is a much cleaner look imo.
Is there no way to back with black and still have light colours on the shell?
Could I get away with a rattle can white, then black to back or does that eat into the water based paint straight away?

Wingers

julianb · #14 06-02-2014

Hi, Make sure you're putting enough white on. Go for at least 4-5 light coats, flashed off with a hair-dryer inbetween. Hold it up to a strong light source to check. When it's more or less opaque, back it with silver and finally black.

cheers

Joo's Paint

U1timate PigDog · #15 07-02-2014

I was just about to say the same as Julianb, good advise

wingers · #16 07-02-2014

Thanks guys.
I did try that, light source etc. but maybe I just need to do some more.

Wingers

RichyUK · #17 07-02-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingers

Thanks guys.
I did try that, light source etc. but maybe I just need to do some more.

Wingers

whatever you do, I personally don't think you'll be able to back any light colours with black, it will dull them all. I only back silver with black and metallic/pearl colours depending on the look I want, as backing those in either black or white makes them look very different.