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  #21  
Old 15-08-2008
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  #22  
Old 15-08-2008
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  #23  
Old 15-08-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Welshy40 View Post
but think that this scale is more like an RC that you'd give your kids rather than use it yourself
Have you ever even seen one we race with!?

Graphite, carbon fibre, sensored Novak brushless, lipo, Schumacher yellow Mini pins, carbon steel drive shafts and ball diffs, alloy suspension...... Not exactly ToysRUs Nikko cars.
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Old 15-08-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frogger View Post
Have you ever even seen one we race with!?

Graphite, carbon fibre, sensored Novak brushless, lipo, Schumacher yellow Mini pins, carbon steel drive shafts and ball diffs, alloy suspension...... Not exactly ToysRUs Nikko cars.
yes he has, but you outline the issue with the kits themselves there... you buy a Vendetta ST or Blaze and got to add driveshafts, ball diffs, shock mounts and towers etc etc... that has been the biggest dissapointment.

CML have the opportunity to, if they want, order a spec'd up car from Duratrax but don't, so it leaves you to source everything else, spending more on upgrades than the kit itself, this is what has put me off, cause unless you source a used and upgraded car, to be competitive, you got a bit of a bill on your hands.
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  #25  
Old 15-08-2008
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How many people buy their 10th scale cars and race them out of the box without upgrades? 18th scale cars, even hopped up to the hilt are still cheaper than 10th scale cars not only to build to run and maintain.

We have been able to buy the LRP Shark Monster Factory Team for quite a while in the UK. That has every available hopup for £160. There is also a new LRP distributor which means the kits will become widely available all over the UK through your favourite shop. DMS will stock them too in all shapes and sizes.

Xray M18 carbon kits and Associated RC18B FT kits have been available for ever too. Exotek have been making carbon race chassis for well over a year. Rob Knight put a stock RC18 on the national podium and Mark Stiles put a XRay M18 on the podium so you don't need a Blaze to be competitive (although I think everyone agrees it's the better race car).

The issue is not availability, cost, quality of the kits, it's what you know and what you are used to and how open minded you are for giving it a go. Who cares what size the car is, you are still standing on a rostrum driving it with your thumbs making it go round corners and over jumps. You are still arguing setups and tyres choices and have your own dirty little secrets that you don't share with nobody.

Saying these cars are just toys for kids are no different to my wife saying my B44 with Novak GTB and Trakpower saddles is just a toy for a kid. I guess both are right and wrong in the same sense.
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Old 15-08-2008
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but the RC18T isn't that good a car though.

What it really needs is for a company to make a serious car, and not an adaptation of something else. Thats what would turn this class round. Thats how I see it.

The problem with the cars now, that are cheap, is you are not upgrading for performance, you are upgrading for reliability.
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  #27  
Old 15-08-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frogger View Post
How many people buy their 10th scale cars and race them out of the box without upgrades?
Er..... most of them:

B4
XXX-CR
X11
XX-4
D4
501X
B44

All competative out of the box

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  #28  
Old 15-08-2008
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G - I didn't ask how many cars are competitive out of the box, I asked how many people race their cars out of the box without upgrades.

I can't speak for the other makes but I own a B4 and a B44 and it seems most people at the very least run Losi shocks on them right? Or how about some bling race winning screws and whitie o-rings!? Most racers don't give a monkey's about the cost (to a point obviously - I mean are Losi shocks really that much better to justify that cost if Mr Martin can win a national with Associated shocks on his B44?) or the reason for the upgrade as long as they end up with a good reliable car that is race worthy at the end of it.

DCM - in the US the only cars on podiums are the XRay M18 and the Associated's. They don't believe much in the Vendetta's there for some reason so they are very good cars in the right hands. These cars are very robust and the parts that break (and all cars break!) are cheap to replace.

This is not a what's better or worse thread so that's not the point of my posts. It seems to me that a lot of 10th scalers are under the impression that they are cheap crappy things that don't last 5 minutes when that can't be further from the truth so it's worth driving home if for the very least to spark interest so that some people can at least come and have a look or think twice about micro cars and the micro race scene.

Where else are you going to find what i would consider what could potentially be your best bit of practise during the winter season for next's years 10th nationals!?
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  #29  
Old 16-08-2008
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I have to say i do feel the "toy" vibe, most of these chassis' as an RTR package need a bit doing to them from reading up before taking my plunge into micro!
Accessibility is also pretty low if you want a serious from the box track killer, they all need some kind of upgrading, Mini T's seem fragile and do not jump too well?
RC18's seem to suffer the same trait and i see many go the Exotek route?

I do feel 1/10 still has the edge in this area, and Micro is slowly coming up, but i do feel the Q needs to be asked, where are all these manufacturers with a full comp buggy? HPI Brama anyone?...too corny!

I think a full on mini XXX or even Mini B44 etc, would do a lot for the class, not everybody wants to run a Blaze, or a truck.

I remember way back i ran 2WD on road, and the only chassis on the circuit was a Serpent lol, and it was kind of boring not to see other cars, like i did in touring, even back then there were so many chassis' to choose from HPI Pro 2, TC3, Street Weapon and onto the XXXS, Schumacher, M1's, even Tamiya's ran at my local onroad circuit (Bedworth) etc.

Micro is so cool, and im not bagging on it, its a way forward to another good class of indoor racing (one that i cant wait to join in on) but it needs a big jolt, have somebody like Losi or even Yokomo jump in with some form of full on bad ass chassis with durability, and top flite performance from the box maybe?

lee
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  #30  
Old 16-08-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frogger View Post
G - I didn't ask how many cars are competitive out of the box, I asked how many people race their cars out of the box without upgrades.

I can't speak for the other makes but I own a B4 and a B44 and it seems most people at the very least run Losi shocks on them right? Or how about some bling race winning screws and whitie o-rings!? Most racers don't give a monkey's about the cost (to a point obviously - I mean are Losi shocks really that much better to justify that cost if Mr Martin can win a national with Associated shocks on his B44?) or the reason for the upgrade as long as they end up with a good reliable car that is race worthy at the end of it.

DCM - in the US the only cars on podiums are the XRay M18 and the Associated's. They don't believe much in the Vendetta's there for some reason so they are very good cars in the right hands. These cars are very robust and the parts that break (and all cars break!) are cheap to replace.

This is not a what's better or worse thread so that's not the point of my posts. It seems to me that a lot of 10th scalers are under the impression that they are cheap crappy things that don't last 5 minutes when that can't be further from the truth so it's worth driving home if for the very least to spark interest so that some people can at least come and have a look or think twice about micro cars and the micro race scene.

Where else are you going to find what i would consider what could potentially be your best bit of practise during the winter season for next's years 10th nationals!?
I don't know many who run Losi shocks on a B4, but thats personal chioce, but you are kinda missing the point we are trying to make.

In 10th off-road, you can buy a kit, race and have fun and only break if you have a bad off. With most of the micro cars, before you can 'race' them, they need some investment, and people just don't want to have to do that, they want to buy that car rear to race.

Blaze, to run and be reliable, the minimum is driveshafts and rear diff to a ball diff, just so you are not shearing driveshafts on landing, etc...

IF one of the bigger companies brought out a car that is ready for the track, I am sure more would take it up.
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  #31  
Old 16-08-2008
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I think part of the issue with having to upgrade the car to make it competitive is that it plays into the toy aspect. It's a toy that you have to upgrade to make it into a race machine. If you had specific race machines that you buy and are competitive out of the box then it would do a lot to lift the image to that of a more serious nature.

Sure a lot of people have small ugprades on their 1/10th cars my impression from the 1/18th is you significantly upgrade the cars to make them more reliable and faster. That to me sounds more along the lines of buying durga and a load of upgrades to make it on pace with a 501x. The fact that the upgraded car and the top spec racer might be just as quick on the track is irrelevant, it's not the end result but the method of getting there.

Also im sure there would be be the fear that somebody might buy the wrong upgrades and therefore not be competitive before they started.
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Old 16-08-2008
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yeah, but the thing with the durga, is kit spec it will still be competitive, ask Jimmy
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Old 16-08-2008
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I was a bit reluctant to use the durga or the b-max as they are new exceptions to the rules but I couldnt think of any other budget car that would be properly competitive with extensive upgrading in 1/10th. I had thought of the dark impact but I dont think the fully upgraded versions of it would be as quick as race bred cars.
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Old 16-08-2008
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Good thinking on putting this thread up Cris, its interesting to know what people think!

I've raced most classes, micros still top the tables for me The insane tracks, cheap racing and friendly atmosphere is just unbeatable! I've seen that a few people are saying that the cars need alot of upgrading and durability is a problem. I wouldn't say so, with the LRP Shark ST you don't need any upgrades and its all good! Not that its been that easy to get hold of but this car will now be distributed over here in the UK from September onwards :O As for durability these things do take a beating yet 99% of the time come off fine, i've never seen a car take so much abuse and not break!

Keep 'em coming as its a good read
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  #35  
Old 16-08-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frogger View Post
G - I didn't ask how many cars are competitive out of the box, I asked how many people race their cars out of the box without upgrades.

I can't speak for the other makes but I own a B4 and a B44 and it seems most people at the very least run Losi shocks on them right? Or how about some bling race winning screws and whitie o-rings!? Most racers don't give a monkey's about the cost (to a point obviously - I mean are Losi shocks really that much better to justify that cost if Mr Martin can win a national with Associated shocks on his B44?) or the reason for the upgrade as long as they end up with a good reliable car that is race worthy at the end of it.
I can probably count on one hand the number of B4's running Losi shocks at a 10th National tbh.

Most cars are fairly standard to be honest I would say. Certainly no need to buy driveshafts, diffs and the like to make the 5 minute mark

People do like to buy parts, but you certainly don't have to

G
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Old 16-08-2008
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I would love to give micro racing a go but there isnt any interest in it here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danosborne6661
... I've seen that a few people are saying that the cars need alot of upgrading and durability is a problem. I wouldn't say so, with the LRP Shark ST you don't need any upgrades and its all good! Not that its been that easy to get hold of but this car will now be distributed over here in the UK from September onwards
As that gets more known im sure it will help the class as im a complete outsider to it and I've always got the impression that the cars needed significant upgrades to become raceworthy which would put quite a few people off im sure.
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Old 16-08-2008
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Id say the one thing that held me back getting into Micro, was the fact i hate trucks, and its pretty much all that was on offer.

The only decent buggy was the Blaze, and TBH it didnt do anything for me.
Hence i had to wait and be patient to track down something from the Xray/Team Bluegroove converted side of the market...and sadly, thats really does get expensive.

I reckon, get a couple of the big guns making true scaled down 2WD/4WD buggies we all know and love, and itll be even bigger than it is now, and still, i cant wait to get my first meet under my belt!

lee
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  #38  
Old 16-08-2008
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Still don't see what the big deal is? £60 for a Blaze kit, Blaze drive shafts are £12-14 for 2 drive shafts, £12-14/carbon steel ball diff.

Compared to £60+ for a single front one way for my B44. How many B44 shock towers, top decks shock shafts and front arms have I and other people broken for the car to last 5 mins? I seem remembering having to buy proper AC shock towers before my kit shock towers stopped breaking So not that many people run Losi shocks on a B4, does anyone run them on their B44's then and does that make it less of a valid point?

Seems to me you are all convinced that 10th scalers are the only real proper race cars then Better focus our efforts somewhere else Cris or would you feel better if a 18th scale kit cost £200+ and was proper race ready?
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  #39  
Old 16-08-2008
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Micros look cool and are way quick but ! The reason I do 1/8th is I got big fingers ! Feet ! Belly ! etc etc ! 1/18th 1.5mm screws just to fiddly !
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Old 16-08-2008
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no, what we are saying is, that for most of us, 18th scale is some fun, but we like to race that fun.... so what looks initialy as a cheap scale, isn't..... thats why it would benefit from a car that is good out of the box. So you don't have to buy the upgrades if the stock items were up to it... I think the first day I run the Blaze, I did a plastic driveshaft every run... then when I swapped to proper driveshafts, then I had to replace the rear diff.... then the plastic clips that hold the top of the shocks on started to pop.... always chasing reliability, whereas a one-way is just a tuning option.

I would happily race one, if it was reliable, had decent diffs and slipper clutch.
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