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View Poll Results: What you guys recon -
Yes - 4wd designed cars should be allowed to run as 2wd cars 105 39.47%
No - 4wd designed cars should not be allowed run as 2wd cars 107 40.23%
Not bothered 54 20.30%
Voters: 266. You may not vote on this poll

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  #241  
Old 10-09-2013
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Originally Posted by terry.sc View Post
None, for the simple reason that these big events will be run an low grip surfaces. Even if they end up sugaring the Worlds track the grip will still be lower than astro and converted 4WDs just won't be competitive.
It seems unlikey but you never know!!! they run them at the Euros. also X-ray for example only have that option open to their team drivers!
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  #242  
Old 10-09-2013
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What negative publicity?
When Neil Cragg won with the Centro prototype the press release said "Team Associated driver" Neil Cragg. If Tom Cockerill wins with a converted K1 then the press release still only says "Schumacher driver Tom Cockerill"
I think the term Publicity is maybe wrong, but the perception of customers will be if the team guys are running 4wd in 2wd then the 2wd car is not a good one!! wrongly or rightly it will be considered. That's not a option we would have let our team drivers take for that reason.
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  #243  
Old 10-09-2013
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If you are struggling to find a competitive 2wd car why not just try an RB6?
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  #244  
Old 10-09-2013
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Having missed this thread earlier, having read through it I'm amazed at some of the replies and that running a 2wd converted 4wd is 'gay' sums up the level of maturity of some of the arguments for this knee jerk reaction. Okay, you don't want them, but no one who wants converted 4wds banned has come up with a proper definition of a 2wd that bans only them.

2wds should only be allowed that are sold as 2wd buggies and no modifications allowed, well that argument falls down as a blanket rule to ban everything not sold as a 2wd buggy ends up banning any separate mid motor conversion. It also means no one can build their own cars either. All Schumacher has to do is leave front transmission parts out of a K1 and stick a Cougar K1 sticker on the box and you have a new kit sold as a 2wd buggy, so you now have a converted K1 allowed while the DB1 is banned.

One chassis plate allowed, so they have to choose which chassis to use. Yep, that works. I'm sure it wouldn't take much time to design a piece of carbon fibre that would fit underneath a Cougar and Cat and act as the 'chassis', or whatever other two options you want to use.

Converted 4WDs being competitive in the 2WD class is something that has happened at one major race meeting so far, that does not suggest that the 2WD/4WDs will work at every other track. Off road racers usually make fun of the on road classes having strict rules, yet if something new and different comes along the on road classes embrace it if it works, while the off roaders seem to just want to moan about it being different.

You know the rules, if you want to change things put in a proposal at the AGM and get it voted on. If the majority agree with you then it gets passed. If no one proposed new rules we would still be using brushed motors and nimhs.
Regarding the Gay comment. did you see Neil Craggs Interview? he is the one that stated this first! and as a world champion and one of the biggest stars in RC if he says its gay then I believe him.
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  #245  
Old 10-09-2013
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Just not taken into account that some racers might find it offensive to call it gay...
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  #246  
Old 10-09-2013
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Hey Fabs, I agree for that! I am just repeating Neil Craggs comments!
I have no problem for anyone's sexuality!
Neil is not as funny as Jim Davidson but certainly less offensive than Frankie Boyle.
and I am very much tongue in cheek with this whole thread as a kyosho guy none of it matters! we have the cars in all the areas with all the third party options for all conditions.
BTW why was Jorn using 410 in German Champs? just to let our TC driver MR krapp beat him?? lol

http://www.redrc.net/2013/09/scholz-...es/#more-71159
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Last edited by Neil Skull; 10-09-2013 at 03:13 PM. Reason: typo
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  #247  
Old 10-09-2013
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To me if 2wd/4wd are being used in British championships and German Championships who to say it wont be at worlds?

http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135874

Especially if the teams involved have drivers demanding it!!

If they sugar the track in USA I would bet money on someone doing it!!
no more than 10p as I don't gamble as a rule unless anyone wants to play me at Golf then its a 20p per hole!
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  #248  
Old 10-09-2013
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You've all got it wrong. Cragg said it was 'Gay', therefore surely this must be a positive that he supports. Gay means happy and jolly, therefore this is a positive, not a negative!

Lets all race 2wd 4wds! and be happy!
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  #249  
Old 10-09-2013
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Why not just run what we can each afford as long as it fits in the box has legal electrics and meets the specified weeight restrictions?
A good driver will always beat a bad driver whatever car they are running!
When the DB1 came out the good drivers were wining same with the RB6 and now the DB2 just because you have one wont make you a better driver, the same goes for a 4wd with the front drive taken out the car may react differently to a purpose built 2wd but it won't mean that i will quallify any higher than normal if i did it to my XB4?
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  #250  
Old 10-09-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrodchris View Post
Why not just run what we can each afford as long as it fits in the box has legal electrics and meets the specified weeight restrictions?
A good driver will always beat a bad driver whatever car they are running!
When the DB1 came out the good drivers were wining same with the RB6 and now the DB2 just because you have one wont make you a better driver, the same goes for a 4wd with the front drive taken out the car may react differently to a purpose built 2wd but it won't mean that i will quallify any higher than normal if i did it to my XB4?
And sense has been spoken!
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  #251  
Old 10-09-2013
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And sense has been spoken!
I was shocked, sorry Chris
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  #252  
Old 11-09-2013
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Cheers Matt love you too!!!!!!!!!!!



LOL
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  #253  
Old 11-09-2013
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When drive is being transfurred to more or less than 2 wheels.
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  #254  
Old 12-09-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Skull View Post
Regarding the Gay comment. did you see Neil Craggs Interview? he is the one that stated this first! and as a world champion and one of the biggest stars in RC if he says its gay then I believe him.

If you listen carefully to the interview Neil says if he has a bad day he would try it, running a 4wd as a 2wd that is, but he still thinks it's gay.
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  #255  
Old 12-09-2013
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This thread makes me want to put 2 one-way bearings in a 4WD car and race it as a 2WD At any given time, it's still 2WD. It just happens to be rear wheel drive when accellerating and front wheel drive when braking.

All the recent events prove is that most current 2WD cars are not easy to drive on extremely high grip tracks, and 4WD geometry is slightly better. I am pointing a finger at front kick-up and possibly at motor orientation.

How about this statement: extremely high grip racing surfaces are gay.*



* Extremely high grip! As in unsettling for most cars and racers. Most astr is OK. Most dirt is more fun.
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  #256  
Old 13-09-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Skull View Post
I think the term Publicity is maybe wrong, but the perception of customers will be if the team guys are running 4wd in 2wd then the 2wd car is not a good one!! wrongly or rightly it will be considered. That's not a option we would have let our team drivers take for that reason.
Well Kyosho does have the advantage that a normal 2wd Kyosho beat the lot of them, no matter what the other teams use.
Apart from people who attended the event and people who read this thread, no one knows what equipment is being used, we don't get tech charts like the old magazine race reports and in those we were told what the drivers sponsors wanted us to know, not actually what was run every time. If one of the converted K1s had won, the RedRC report would just list it as a win for Schumacher and 99% of off roaders wouldn't know it wasn't a cougar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Skull View Post
Regarding the Gay comment. did you see Neil Craggs Interview? he is the one that stated this first! and as a world champion and one of the biggest stars in RC if he says its gay then I believe him.
I would love to see someone come up with a rule proposal at the AGM, and when asked for a justification for the rule just stand up and say "because they are gay" Actually, the off road section is possibly the only one that could vote in a rule just for that reason.
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  #257  
Old 13-09-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elvo View Post
All the recent events prove is that most current 2WD cars are not easy to drive on extremely high grip tracks, and 4WD geometry is slightly better. I am pointing a finger at front kick-up and possibly at motor orientation.
I think that front end geometry, especially the much less kick up and caster angle, is more the reason than the fact the chassis were designed as 4wds. 2wds have developed specifically for 'normal' off road tracks so aren't really suited for high grip surfaces.

It's like touring cars, they developed with the motor and saddle pack batteries in the centre with a high layshaft and that was pretty much the same design in every chassis. Yokomo worked out how to get a stick pack battery in there down one side, as Japanese rules specified a stick pack and the standard Yokomo motor mount prevented them from running a high layshaft to clear the battery, but it was never competitive until tyre technology and motor power showed up the shortcomings of the traditional touring car layout. At least when touring car chassis went through a major change the racers accepted it rather than complain about it.
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  #258  
Old 13-09-2013
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If a car is 2wd or 4wd is easy to tell, hold it in the air and then use the throttle, if only 2 wheels rotate it is 2wd if 4 rotate then it is 4wd. I don't see how you can claim anything else.

If you stop team drivers (or any others) using parts that are not commercially available how will new parts or kits be developed and tested? Racing is the best way to test them and the team drivers the best guys to test them as they will be the best drivers (ability wise).

Didn't xray try the xb4 in 2wd after seeing other people doing it? Them realising it worked well in the situation used has lead to them developing the xb2 which their team drivers are helping to develop and test. This will then bring a dedicated 2wd car to market. These kind of ideas and innovation would be banned if some people get there way, is this really what they want to achieve? I can't see how that would be good for the sport. Do people really want to hinder the manufacturers and make new kits less likely?

Maybe the number of people running converted 4wd kits in events may show manufacturers that a different geometry set up is needed for use on high grip surfaces and they might develop an alternative front end for their 2wd kits for such a purpose as a hop up or optional part (like tlr do by providing parts to run the tlr 22 mid or rear motor). They might find a different setup to both current 2wd and 4wd front ends works well in all conditions and then all racers could benefit from the developments.

New ideas and developments will always cause a stir if they work well and not everyone can get them as part of a kit straight away. However that is no reason to prevent the cars being developed and improved.

This is supposed to be a fun hobby so why ban people from trying things that could lead to improvements in cars available to all racers and make their racing more fun and competitive?
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