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  #21  
Old 15-10-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulRotheram View Post
Similar to the rule change to supastox which makes alot of escs redundant.. anything is possible!
difference is the racers would vote on the proposal pdw mentioned, the esc blinky list in 12th was not a proposal!
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  #22  
Old 15-10-2013
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Amen to the jump thing! It has gotten out of proportion totally - imagine someone just starting in competition seeing the last Worlds Videos....
The first thing they are thinking is hell i couldnt even get around the track , cleanly let alone be competitive with moderate ammounts of money and no big sponsors....

Watch 2005 worlds videos and then see 2013 worlds vids...
For Gods shake come to your senses... More broken parts means more spare parts bought i short term but in the end why bother when even if you dont crash hard everything gets sloppy and worn out so fast?
When even Tebo cant make clean runs with a car that is slightly off , forget it for the rest...

As for the 3 car thing and the motor far forward 2wds...tyres - lots of them for anything than pure astro tracks...and lets see who can keep up spending ...

I then wonder why 1989 worlds videos with only 1 jump still had exciting racing and very few broken cars...

What's the point of a 1/10th scale car jumping 2-3 meters in the air anyway? Does it correspond to anything real?






Quote:
Originally Posted by Origineelreclamebord View Post
The future of 2WD... It depends a lot on what the tracks are like I suppose. It seems smooth/flat, big, demanding jumps (a lot of them too) and high grip are the trend, and as such we see more cars that are well adapted to that. Particularly big venues are being maintained meticulously, and since the high level drivers don't visit small venues as often it's no wonder more and more brands develop a car suited to those high grip conditions.

As long as the trend continues of making buggy racing touring car driving with jumps, we'll see more of these cars about I can even imagine we'll start seeing new geometry for the cars and more emphasis on aerodynamics (which includes shocks and suspension, not just the bodyshell).

Just my opinion about buggy racing in general, I'd rather see the development the other way around. The lower speeds of driving on low-medium bite with easy jumps give a lot of benefits:

- It's safer for marshals.
- It's cheaper because your car breaks down less easily.
- The gaps between cars will be smaller (in distance), making it more thrilling to watch.
- Overtaking is easier because you have less distance to gain to your opponent to overtake.
- You're fighting each other instead of grip roll and the right flow through a jump section.
- (Close) racing becomes easier for lower level drivers because you don't need ninja reflexes - plus I think losing the rear end won't cost as much time as grip rolling.
- Contact between cars results in less drama.

That said, the most important thing for will remain to be the fun factor and atmosphere at the trackside, and that's highly enjoyable with the buggy crowd!
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  #23  
Old 15-10-2013
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Hard to tell, and lots if valid points!

I personally have way too many cars! Granted i dont run them all just hate selling most of them! We spend so much and never see any of it back

Currently ive got 3 2wd cars set up and ready to go, TM2, TC02C and a TC02... I do change cars from time to time depending on the track conditions, but i didnt go out and buy them all at once, i had one, a new model came out, bought that then the latest (TM2) came out so i got that...

My three cars all use the same wheels/tires so im not buying tires for each, just a set if wets, and a set of dry, replace when worn out...

It all comes down to the individual at the end of the day, i do quite like the idea of a restricted class though, we used to do dirt spec, 19 turn motors, the racing was soo close! Brilliant fun! But again, its down to cost, motors were £30 then
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  #24  
Old 15-10-2013
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How about allowing the new horizon gyro and traction control would that level the playing field
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  #25  
Old 15-10-2013
Richard Lowe Richard Lowe is offline
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IMO it's not the car designs or manufacturers people should be looking at, the current trend for experimenting with new chassis layouts is more down to the track surfaces we're running on these days. Take away the stupid velcro like astroturf that seems to get put down now when tracks get resurfaced and you eliminate the need for different chassis layouts.

From what I've seen of the mid-mid motor 2wd's they're only any use on the highest grip surfaces and are very track specific, if the grip isn't quite high enough they can make good qualifying cars but aren't very good 'racing' cars. You have to drive very swoopy lines and keep your speed up, much like when 4wd's started moving from one way front diffs to full time 4wd it can be very easy with a traditional mid motor to point and squirt up the inside of someone driving a mid-mid.

Personally I don't think there should be any rules introduced to specifically rule out any potential 2wd layout, as long as it only has two wheels driven let your imagination cook up anything!
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  #26  
Old 16-10-2013
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Just make 2 classes1. Two wheel drive ,motor behind driven wheels.
2. Two wheel drive open.
There is nothing to stop them racing together , but where numbers dictate have separate races!
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  #27  
Old 16-10-2013
Colin Kirkham Colin Kirkham is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TARTMAN View Post
bin 2wd and go 4wd then...........

I think it should be a simple thing.....

2wd is 2wd....... no matter what the layout, its up to the driver/owner of said 2wd to decide what suits best.

BUT

The "choose" a chassis/car at the start of the meeting and that's the one you drive regardless is a good idea, to stop the things mentioned above.

Personally I run 4wd mainly. But in 2wd I generally have one buggy so does not matter to me.

The top drivers, on whatever track and conditions will drive them well and do well regardless.

The normal drivers with spare dosh will keep on buying what the trend is and change frequently.

Normal drivers with out the spare dosh or just in it for the fun and challenge will buy what they want and race it. keeping the cost down for whatever reason.

There are as many choices as there are different drivers/needs so as long as people continue to race, the rules are not made to anal as to deter the club fun racer, then 2wd and 4wd will continue and choices will be made.

I hope the "rules" and classes are not complicated to deter people. like 3 classes for 2wd, then 4wd, then a blinky class as well. just gets to much.

2wd

4wd

SC

Stadium

Done.................. off road wise.

Totally totally agree.... Keep it simple
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  #28  
Old 16-10-2013
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Buy what you can afford, race it and have fun. That's what it's all about
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  #29  
Old 16-10-2013
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As far as I can see these arguments are pretty invalid, I shall do my best to explain why.

99% of people who race RC in this country are club racers. We roll up, talk crap for 5 hours at a race meeting, watch the local hotshot destroy the competition then we go home to our lives and talk the same shit here on oOple. We'll never win anything, and if you're deluded enough to think that having 3 2wd cars is going to make such a massive difference that you'll suddenly be beating Craggy and the other guys at nationals, you deserve to pay out the 2 grand it'll cost to kit those cars out so you can pick any of them up and race them at any given time.

I bought 1 2wd car. It'll do me on dirt, astro, carpet, polished wood and i'll have to strip and change the motor layout to go to RHR for my twice yearly fix. Thats fine cos I know that Daz at York will still kick my arse round the track while he's fighting with Rich Lowe for the win. I'm fine with that, I know my limits.

As far as the evolution of 2wd goes, its going to continue as it is, as long as companies want to make money, they'll keep producing hybrid cars to keep you spending.

Thats what companies do after all...
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  #30  
Old 16-10-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC199 View Post
99% of people who race RC in this country are club racers. We roll up, talk crap for 5 hours at a race meeting, watch the local hotshot destroy the competition then we go home to our lives and talk the same shit here on oOple. We'll never win anything.
Genius!
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  #31  
Old 16-10-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC199 View Post
As far as I can see these arguments are pretty invalid, I shall do my best to explain why.

99% of people who race RC in this country are club racers. We roll up, talk crap for 5 hours at a race meeting, watch the local hotshot destroy the competition then we go home to our lives and talk the same shit here on oOple. We'll never win anything, and if you're deluded enough to think that having 3 2wd cars is going to make such a massive difference that you'll suddenly be beating Craggy and the other guys at nationals, you deserve to pay out the 2 grand it'll cost to kit those cars out so you can pick any of them up and race them at any given time.

I bought 1 2wd car. It'll do me on dirt, astro, carpet, polished wood and i'll have to strip and change the motor layout to go to RHR for my twice yearly fix. Thats fine cos I know that Daz at York will still kick my arse round the track while he's fighting with Rich Lowe for the win. I'm fine with that, I know my limits.

As far as the evolution of 2wd goes, its going to continue as it is, as long as companies want to make money, they'll keep producing hybrid cars to keep you spending.

Thats what companies do after all...

Thank that about sums things up
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  #32  
Old 16-10-2013
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Being old school and ever the optimist, I say bin them all and go back to good old rear motor cars Cars would be on a more level par, much more fun and you only need one variation to race. Also only having one 2wd car to maintain, would allow more people to do a second class like 4wd, which is very under subscribed these days.

As a side note, if people feel they need to have three different 2wd cars, then this could push people away from the class and they concentrate on 4wd anyhow. Two wheel drive won't stay the favoured class forever.
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  #33  
Old 16-10-2013
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Rear motor class would be good
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  #34  
Old 16-10-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC199 View Post
We roll up, talk crap for 5 hours at a race meeting, ...
That's a conservative estimate
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  #35  
Old 16-10-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulRotheram View Post
Its already happening! Ive seen numerous drivers with images of three seperate cars ready to go, including people at our club! People will do it, are doing it and will consider it even more to do so.
I don't have a strong opinion about limiting the design of 2wd cars but I do agree the 1 marked chassis rule per meeting would be a good idea.

There is a side to this that has not been mentioned - the newbie or potential newbie - we are all looking at this from the inside looking out.

What about the parent who brings a kid along that is interested in racing for the first time? Then they look at the drivers competing with three and sometime four cars all with top line kit, ready to go and decide that maybe junior should find another hobby or sport that involves less outlay to be able to compete. I'm not saying that any of it is necessary but just think what it looks like to an outsider thinking of starting up.
Back in the day it was the 6+ boxes of nicad batteries and expensive all singing and dancing chargers/dischargers, motor lathes, and constant rebuilds of said motors that put off several people that I knew that were interested. Racing is never going to be cheap in any scale but why make it potentially more confusing with ever more classes and stacks of gear, much of which will sit on standby, just in case?
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  #36  
Old 16-10-2013
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when it gets too slippy for your mid motor and you want more grip, just stick an extra weight on the back, you want a more aggressive car just stick an extra weight further forward, no need for more than one chassis layout. i can get my homebrew mid motor round a track quicker than i can get my old b4 round the track anyday, its far more stable and predictable, even on very low grip.
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  #37  
Old 17-10-2013
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Default 2WD 4eva..

Hhmm... as a guy who races 2WD leccy at club level I see the same guys with the same cars winning in the same way week in week out... it doesn't seem to matter what motor or battery config they use, they are just good drivers and could prob win if we all had the same anyways...

The computer that records the laps usually seems to sort the wheat from the chaff in the way it produces the heat and final sheets... it doesn't care if the cars are all the same or all different...

For me a single marque and config is immaterial, but I would like to see everyone using the same config just to stop the manufacturers from producing .1's .2's etc of the same car, with little change but with big bucks profits for the luxury of being able to say "oh yeh, I've got the .2(or whatever)it's waaaay better.."

Motor behind the rear wheels and battery straight down the chassis is the only 2WD for me... long may it live..!
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  #38  
Old 17-10-2013
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Its great to see all the varied reply's, both on here, facebook and texts ive had! There seems to be lacking responses from the sharp end of the hobby, however.

The general spirit of mid table to fun lovers of the hobby are all on the same boat, progression is of no importance, however its enjoyable to see -fun is mostly important. Which is what I agree with hugely, if there's no fun, what's the point!

However what are peoples opinions of a national series, where one car may have a significant advantage over another on certain tracks, are you willing to buy said chassis, or just get on with it with what you have, or are you put off by the possibility of this happening?

Again, all of which is a general debate - I find it an interesting time in our hobby with a lot of options are coming around more than ever.
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  #39  
Old 17-10-2013
Cody227 Cody227 is offline
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I think you don't get what all these different chassis layouts are about. It's not only the difference in weight distribution but also a difference in weight transfer. When the motor lays parallell to the rear axis (like in a B4 or 22) the inertia of the rotor generates some kind of artificial weight transfer when you accelerate or decelerate, which affects the handling massively. Even the difference beetween a mm3 and mm4 configuration is a night-and-day difference. But personally i don't see any future for mm4 and midmotor cars on low traction. The only reason that you can drive for example a x6 cubed on low bite is, that it has so much weight transfer to the rear, but at the same time it looses all his rear grip as soon as you break, so you can not drive clear lines and have to point-and-shoot
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  #40  
Old 17-10-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulRotheram View Post
However what are peoples opinions of a national series, where one car may have a significant advantage over another on certain tracks, are you willing to buy said chassis, or just get on with it with what you have, or are you put off by the possibility of this happening?

Again, all of which is a general debate - I find it an interesting time in our hobby with a lot of options are coming around more than ever.
Aaaaah, right, the way I see it is this then, Paul, if you are competing at National level, and being competitive, then I think having a second chassis (maybe not with esc, motor and receiver in) isn't going to be such an impact on budget once you factor in fuel costs, lodgings, food, wheels/tyres, maintenance, entrance fee etc.

But as has been said, I think for most, finding the right chassis is more important than having all three layouts at hand.
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