Kyosho Big Bores

[jimmy]

Kyosho have released some teaser shots of their stunning new 'big bore' dampers for their 1/10th scale buggies. No other details on the dampers are available but they've kindly taken some shots VS the standard dampers on team driver Adachi's car.

As with all things on Shinozuke Adachi's cars these dampers are anodised red but we'd guess the production items will be regulation blue like the photo below.

Source Kyosho
Thanks for the tip Daniel!

[kek23k]

oo very nice

[njc11]

[seankyew]

well it's a sooner or later thing really.

[ApexSpeed]

So this discussion has been ongoing on the KyoshoForum for a few days now, as Tebo has been testing them recently...

Do big bore shocks on a 2wd electric buggy do anything other than make your wallet lighter and your car heavier? I think the general consensus has been, no, they are really a waste of money for electric cars. On 1/8th buggies pushing a lot of mass for 30 minutes at a time, sure, and maybe even on a heavy SC, but on light buggies they are really not something you need.

They only bring negatives with them—expensive (more additional costs), need all new springs, new pistons, new setups, heavier, higher Cg, etc. For what advantage or gains? Marginal to 99.9% of the population of the planet, and even to most of the guys getting them for free from Kyosho. Keep in mind, they would be replacing what is already regarded as one of the best electric buggy shocks in racing—the Velvet.



Waste of money, IMO, and most definitely not needed for most racing.

[ulrich]

Originally Posted by ApexSpeed

So this discussion has been ongoing on the KyoshoForum for a few days now, as Tebo has been testing them recently...

Do big bore shocks on a 2wd electric buggy do anything other than make your wallet lighter and your car heavier? I think the general consensus has been, no, they are really a waste of money for electric cars. On 1/8th buggies pushing a lot of mass for 30 minutes at a time, sure, and maybe even on a heavy SC, but on light buggies they are really not something you need.

They only bring negatives with them—expensive (more additional costs), need all new springs, new pistons, new setups, heavier, higher Cg, etc. For what advantage or gains? Marginal to 99.9% of the population of the planet, and even to most of the guys getting them for free from Kyosho. Keep in mind, they would be replacing what is already regarded as one of the best electric buggy shocks in racing—the Velvet.



Waste of money, IMO, and most definitely not needed for most racing.

For my Schumacher cars it is not a waste of money... only downside!! I need larger shock oil bottles )

[Snappy]

Originally Posted by ApexSpeed

So this discussion has been ongoing on the KyoshoForum for a few days now, as Tebo has been testing them recently...

Do big bore shocks on a 2wd electric buggy do anything other than make your wallet lighter and your car heavier? I think the general consensus has been, no, they are really a waste of money for electric cars. On 1/8th buggies pushing a lot of mass for 30 minutes at a time, sure, and maybe even on a heavy SC, but on light buggies they are really not something you need.

They only bring negatives with them—expensive (more additional costs), need all new springs, new pistons, new setups, heavier, higher Cg, etc. For what advantage or gains? Marginal to 99.9% of the population of the planet, and even to most of the guys getting them for free from Kyosho. Keep in mind, they would be replacing what is already regarded as one of the best electric buggy shocks in racing—the Velvet.



Waste of money, IMO, and most definitely not needed for most racing.

You mustn't be running a Cougar SV then.

[jimmy]

If they came with the buggy then most of those arguments against suddenly fall away - and then you're left with, well, they raise the cog slightly.

I can imagine they'll be more consistent - a tiny variation in pistons isn't going to matter since the bigger the volume the less small variations matter.

Plus - they look cool! And that's the biggest factor surely?

[area52]

I agree with Doug and doupt they do anything for the handling of a 2WD buggy. Well, eccept for the Cougar SV maybe as the original 'thin-ish' Schuey shocks introduced with the CAT SX are shite in terms of volume.

I do not see the point why Kyosho wants to change to a big-bore design other than making money with aftermarket parts. The original Kyosho's are top-notch in my opinion and 'look' a bit bigger than the average AE or Losi shock (12 mm each) with their 12.5 mm bodies. Durango (12 mm) come with big-bores very soon Yokomo allready have them. With the heavier 4WD they possibly make sense if the original design is on the edge now like Schumacher or maybe Yokomo.

Well, we'll see.

[Gayo]

I can't comment for the Schumacher cars, but here we have lots of Yokomos and they are considerably faster with big-bore shocks, specially on rutted tracks and flat-landing jumps. It seems that you have best of 2 worlds : better bumps handling and more pack on jumps.
I will get them for my cars for sure.

The 2wd Vs 4wd thing doesn't make sense for me as they have already almost the same weight. Some 2wd are even heavier than most 4wd.

[Fatal1ty]

Hi all,

I'm sure that the big bores makes faster, when you are a good driver, with good feeling.

They give you more feedback of the car, its easier to drive, better in landing, better over bumps and less nervous.

The big bores work more with the oil, than with the spring. It works better

sandro

[RogerM]

One thing is for certain .... they will be of the highest quality!

I can see one definite advantage to them ... they will clear up the spring issue (same colours, same rates, different lengths .. but same part numbers ..) which has come about as Kyosho have worked hard on developing the cars!
Lets also hope that Kyosho release slighty wider a range of spring rates, would be nice to fine tune the front end the way we can the rears (that said both cars run #70 silvers on the front 95% of the time so maybe we don't need any more).

Kyosho shocks are without doubt the nicest and easiest to build shock I've every used on a 1/10th buggy, how they can make them better I'm not sure but I am sure that if Kyosho release them it is because they make the cars faster, more forgiving or both!

[shanks]

Originally Posted by RogerM

One thing is for certain .... they will be of the highest quality!

I can see one definite advantage to them ... they will clear up the spring issue (same colours, same rates, different lengths .. but same part numbers ..) which has come about as Kyosho have worked hard on developing the cars!
Lets also hope that Kyosho release slighty wider a range of spring rates, would be nice to fine tune the front end the way we can the rears (that said both cars run #70 silvers on the front 95% of the time so maybe we don't need any more).

Kyosho shocks are without doubt the nicest and easiest to build shock I've every used on a 1/10th buggy, how they can make them better I'm not sure but I am sure that if Kyosho release them it is because they make the cars faster, more forgiving or both!

Agreed Roger

Kyosho will have made these for a genuine reason i.e. they will be better in one way or another - or more

[janus_77]

Originally Posted by area52

I do not see the point why Kyosho wants to change to a big-bore design other than making money with aftermarket parts.

It's simple: many racers are asking / demanding big-bores. So either you make them or you dont sell ANY shocks.

[jimmy]

I don't have a Kyosho, but I want them. Clearly making them has worked - since now, I want them.

[MHeadling]

Jimmy lets see if you can get them on your DEX410!

[ApexSpeed]

Honestly, I really think that the next advancement in R/C cars is still shock technology. But I don't think that advancement is to make the shocks bigger. I think that companies should be looking into piston technology and internal tuning, like a motocross shock.

R/C racers are constantly "tuning" their cars with stiffer or more flexible chassis designs, and that in the world of racing is ludicrous. You don't tune with an uncontrollable and inconsistent object, and certainly not the chassis. No real race car in the world is designed with a flexible chassis.

So why do we do it with R/C cars? Frankly, I feel it's because ALL of the shocks suck and don't have enough tuning, range and consistency in them to give the compliance you need.

Shin, Tebo and Kyosho should be spending time developing better shocks, not bigger ones.





That said, we'll probably all be running useless big bore shocks this time next year.



doug

[Big G]

I found the cat with BB shocks rode the bumps loads better in standard form than my B44 did. probably a chassis issue, but the B44 was amazing with ghea pistons in the back. Just got some for the cat to try.

So far I love the way my cat rides the bumps with BB shocks. but like Jimmy said. they look so pimp and that's the main thing

[shanks]

Originally Posted by ApexSpeed

Honestly, I really think that the next advancement in R/C cars is still shock technology. But I don't think that advancement is to make the shocks bigger. I think that companies should be looking into piston technology and internal tuning, like a motocross shock.

R/C racers are constantly "tuning" their cars with stiffer or more flexible chassis designs, and that in the world of racing is ludicrous. You don't tune with an uncontrollable and inconsistent object, and certainly not the chassis. No real race car in the world is designed with a flexible chassis.

So why do we do it with R/C cars? Frankly, I feel it's because ALL of the shocks suck and don't have enough tuning, range and consistency in them to give the compliance you need.

Shin, Tebo and Kyosho should be spending time developing better shocks, not bigger ones.





That said, we'll probably all be running useless big bore shocks this time next year.



doug

Agreed

I could never quit understand how the fit of a shock piston didnt seem to be perfect - in other words oil can pass around the sides of the piston rather than just through the holes - surely that mean inconsistancy?

Dont actually know enough fluid dynamics to know whether big bores are better or not..

[ApexSpeed]

Something else to consider, too, that the oil we use in shocks is not oil made for shocks—it's a typical R/C product that has been re-appropriated from some other industry, re-bottled into 2 oz. containers and sold to us at a huge mark-up.

Real race shock technology uses one viscosity of an oil made for shocks, then tunes with pack, pistons, valves and other components not yet used in an R/C shock.

We're still using shock technology that was developed for the RC10 in 1983. Think about it.