Clubman Class ESC List

[h0m3sy]

It was only a suggestion to guage peoples opinion, there is no rule that says we have to go with it. I was partly thinking of the BRCA Regional series that is taking place in the North this year. Any driver from the south wishing to compete would have to make sure that their ESC was on the list.There is nothing to stop the RCCAOI adding to this list ad infinitum. I agree that the rule works fine as it is, but I also agree with Ivan when he says that the gap between the newcomer in Clubman Class and the more experienced drivers is becoming bigger and bigger. For that reason, I would suggest that any driver winning a club championship in Clubman Class should automatically move up to modified the following season. This is just my opinion, so feel free to shoot me....

[Click]

Hi Dave,

I'm loading the bullets into the gun

A few of us were discussing this the other night in the Naul.

It should be possible to classify (I think this is done already) drivers, F1,2,3,4 etc.

You could have a clubman race with some F4 & F5 drivers, the first F5 driver over the line wins their race, they could be 4th or 5th overall in the race but still win their class, a race within a race type of thing. This would not add any extra complication to a race event, same amount of heats & races etc. but producing the results would be slightly different.

Some of us feel that if we were to move to the modified class now it might put some people off racing.

I appreciate there are some of us in the clubman class who are not beginners and we should not be running with the less experienced or leisurely racers.

We could have:

1. Cubman class
2. Clubman class
3. Modified class

Discuss . . . . . . .

[h0m3sy]

A race within a race would most likely be the best way to go as I don't think the DMCC has the numbers required just yet to justify an Intermediate class as proposed by Ivan. If the race controller on the day could make sure that the faster drivers are put together in one heat with the slower drivers making up the other heats, then this would make sense I think? There is nothing more frustrating than being taken out by an inexperienced driver when you are going for it so to speak. This is no fault of the newcomer though, as by definition they are learning the game too. Although in saying this, I feel, you only improve by racing against faster drivers than yourself. The gap between the Mod Class and the top Clubman is not as big as some people may think, remeber who is in the Mod class, we have some of the best drivers in the Ireland now attending the DMCC on a regular basis. Guys who have raced and still do at world and european level. When you take this fact in to consideration, we in the clubman are doing not too bad at all!

[The Doktor]

Originally Posted by h0m3sy

I was partly thinking of the BRCA Regional series that is taking place in the North this year. Any driver from the south wishing to compete would have to make sure that their ESC was on the list.

Hi David,
That list is just for 1/12th scale. The 1/10th doesnt have a list of blinky escs, as the BRCA races are just modified, no clubman. Check out the thread on the northern ireland section, that question was asked there about a possible clubman class.
Now i could be wrong... but thats the way it looks to me (im easily confused)

I was also thinking about the Intermediate class thing... Originally I was all up for it, but im not so sure.
Really there is only a few Clubman drivers that would want to be in this class, I cant imagine many guys currently running modified dropping back to the intermediate class (could be wrong).
But as it stands we have an A, B C.... final, the slower drivers should be in the lower finals and the faster drivers in the higher finals, So if there are slower drivers in the A final, well that means we dont really have the numbers to make an intermediate class.
BUT, I really do think we should do what we did at the winter race, with the 3 min practice round to put similar paced people into the same qualifying rounds. This doesnt need to be done for club days, just for competition days. If we do this, we keep people of the similar ability in the same races for the whole day, which i think is all we need to do.



Lee

[Sv1keith]

It's all a bit much don't you all think ,so how can the new drivers in clubman class learn to pick up the pace and learn when you want an intermediate class with no experience in the race at all I thought the hole idea of clubman class was entry level into racing , if you are all concerned about being held up in it and you think you are fast enough take the plunge into modified so your pace won't be hampered , I'm quiet happy in clubman class with my son and we are learning and what we have accomplished in 3 months is quiet remarkable , but we hope to achieve a good pace by the end of the year and progress into modified by this time next year or if not before hand , all I'm going to say is roll on the summer so we can get some serious racing done and excuse me if I am being blunt

Keith Harris

[celticpanman]

Well said

[kartstuffer]

Just to point out when I mentioned this (on another thread) the last person I was thinking about was me!!!
I was talking about the new guys possibly being put off by or intimadated out of the way by faster drivers (not only in clubman class) I feel that it is the responsibility of the faster driver to pass the slower driver or novice without taking nim/her out and also new racers need to be given a briefing on what goes on or is expected of them .
I dont care what class I race in I just want to have a bit of fun and a good race no matter where I finish.
Also Davids point to move up after winning a championship is a possibly the way to go.
This needs more discussion so as to encourage newcomers into the sport .They are the future.!!!!!

[h0m3sy]

Originally Posted by Sv1keith

It's all a bit much don't you all think ,so how can the new drivers in clubman class learn to pick up the pace and learn when you want an intermediate class with no experience in the race at all I thought the hole idea of clubman class was entry level into racing , if you are all concerned about being held up in it and you think you are fast enough take the plunge into modified so your pace won't be hampered , I'm quiet happy in clubman class with my son and we are learning and what we have accomplished in 3 months is quiet remarkable , but we hope to achieve a good pace by the end of the year and progress into modified by this time next year or if not before hand , all I'm going to say is roll on the summer so we can get some serious racing done and excuse me if I am being blunt

Keith Harris

It's good to hear from you Keith and there is no need to sorry about being blunt. Thats the whole point of the forum and this discussion in particular. We need to hear the veiws of as many drivers as possible and I for one appreciate your reply. I agree with you about the newcomer needing to race against the faster drivers to get an idea of the pace as I stated in my previous post, the speed will come by learning the right lines to take, when to overtake and when to hold. My biggest fear with the clubman class is that if we don't have a progression of drivers from the class that go up in to modified, say after winning a club championship, then it could become stale. The newcomer could quite as easily be put off if the same guys are winning week after week. If that person or people were to move up in class then that would open the door for someone else to win the championship, thus encouraging evryone else in the clubman class.

[h0m3sy]

Originally Posted by The Doktor

BUT, I really do think we should do what we did at the winter race, with the 3 min practice round to put similar paced people into the same qualifying rounds. This doesnt need to be done for club days, just for competition days. If we do this, we keep people of the similar ability in the same races for the whole day, which i think is all we need to do.



Lee

100% agree with this Lee

[Mugenextreme]

Dont forget lads, assuming its the national rounds you are talking about then the seeding of the heats for round 1 is set by the final postions of the previous championship. Since we have had a season of the clubman now we have the seeding for the first round. Dont need practice or any other system to grade people. Anyone new or moving to a new section will start bottom of the seeding with the seeding to be updated after each round with the results of the previous round.

[h0m3sy]

Originally Posted by Mugenextreme

Dont forget lads, assuming its the national rounds you are talking about then the seeding of the heats for round 1 is set by the final postions of the previous championship. Since we have had a season of the clubman now we have the seeding for the first round. Dont need practice or any other system to grade people. Anyone new or moving to a new section will start bottom of the seeding with the seeding to be updated after each round with the results of the previous round.

I know there is a set formula for gradings at National level Colin, it was more on the club championship level we need a better structure I think, as I stated before, I think, if you have won the club championship at clubman class then you should move up and give others the chance. Can we get some clarification on driver progression at club level?

[Click]

Originally Posted by Sv1keith

It's all a bit much don't you all think ,so how can the new drivers in clubman class learn to pick up the pace and learn when you want an intermediate class with no experience in the race at all I thought the hole idea of clubman class was entry level into racing , if you are all concerned about being held up in it and you think you are fast enough take the plunge into modified so your pace won't be hampered , I'm quiet happy in clubman class with my son and we are learning and what we have accomplished in 3 months is quiet remarkable , but we hope to achieve a good pace by the end of the year and progress into modified by this time next year or if not before hand , all I'm going to say is roll on the summer so we can get some serious racing done and excuse me if I am being blunt

Keith Harris

Hi Keith,

I agree with what you are saying.

Seems to be two proposals:

1. Create an intermediate class (I don't agree with this)

2. Classify clubman drivers, we still all race together but in the one race you could have two winners, one in each class and two 2nds etc.

With option 2 your concern of not being able to run with quicker clubman racers is sorted.

I can only speak for myself but I was not suggesting that these changes be made because slower drivers get in my way. It was an attempt to be fair to beginner drivers so they have a chance to win within their own class.

Hope this make sense!!

Kevin

[Legacy555]

Gentlemen,

Firstly, I'd just like to say that it is great to see a discussion with loads of good ideas being used to solve an ongoing issue with racing at the moment.

After examining the results from the DMCC Club championship which has just finished, I can see an obvious overlap between the four fastest drivers in clubman and the 4 slowest in modified. So we have 8 racers, all putting in similar lap times who aren't racing together as half are in clubman and half are in modified.

Now, as already mentioned, the CLUBMAN class is a nursery class, and is all about protecting the slower (new/returning/junior) drivers until they are ready for modified. This time has now come for Ivan, Lee, Kevin and Eoin. But, I also understand that they aren't on Mark Penney's pace and don't want to move to modified without a chance of victory.

So, what I propose is the following;

1. Change the criteria for becoming an F2 driver so that more of the quicker modified drivers are listed as F2. Leaving the slower modified drivers as F3.
2. Change the criteria for being and F3 driver to include anyone who has won the Clubman championship + anyone within X% of their pace (worked out on previous results). This will mean that the top clubman drivers will then have to run in modified.
3. Organise the heats so that F3 drivers are bunched together
4. Instead of giving just clubman and modifed prizes, award prizes for Formula 2 (top modified) , Formula 3 (new modified/clubman hybrid), Formula 4 (top clubman), Formula 5 (new racers)

This is a very natural next set in the development of racing. We have to be one of the only clubs that could have both a sponsored factory driver and a new comer in the same final

Will

[h0m3sy]

Originally Posted by Legacy555

Gentlemen,

Firstly, I'd just like to say that it is great to see a discussion with loads of good ideas being used to solve an ongoing issue with racing at the moment.

After examining the results from the DMCC Club championship which has just finished, I can see an obvious overlap between the four fastest drivers in clubman and the 4 slowest in modified. So we have 8 racers, all putting in similar lap times who aren't racing together as half are in clubman and half are in modified.

Now, as already mentioned, the CLUBMAN class is a nursery class, and is all about protecting the slower (new/returning/junior) drivers until they are ready for modified. This time has now come for Ivan, Lee, Kevin and Eoin. But, I also understand that they aren't on Mark Penney's pace and don't want to move to modified without a chance of victory.


So, what I propose is the following;

1. Change the criteria for becoming an F2 driver so that more of the quicker modified drivers are listed as F2. Leaving the slower modified drivers as F3.
2. Change the criteria for being and F3 driver to include anyone who has won the Clubman championship + anyone within X% of their pace (worked out on previous results). This will mean that the top clubman drivers will then have to run in modified.
3. Organise the heats so that F3 drivers are bunched together
4. Instead of giving just clubman and modifed prizes, award prizes for Formula 2 (top modified) , Formula 3 (new modified/clubman hybrid), Formula 4 (top clubman), Formula 5 (new racers)

This is a very natural next set in the development of racing. We have to be one of the only clubs that could have both a sponsored factory driver and a new comer in the same final

Will

Here speaks the voice of reason, well done Will. Sounds like a plan. Lets get it done and implemented as soon as.

[MiCk B.]

Before I go back lurking!!

Is this already not part of the Club rules??

As listed here: http://www.dublinmodelracing.com/Rul...g%20System.pdf

It has the definition of the Formula grades.

So is it not possible (including / excluding motor type) to have an F5 Champion, ie driver in first year, F4 Champion, experienced clubman, then F3 Modified and F2 Modified.

No point in re-inventing the wheel if it is already there.

The race computer can assign people into heats as per their 'F' grading.

MiCk B. :-)

[Legacy555]

Originally Posted by MiCk B.

Before I go back lurking!!

Is this already not part of the Club rules??

As listed here: http://www.dublinmodelracing.com/Rul...g%20System.pdf

It has the definition of the Formula grades.

So is it not possible (including / excluding motor type) to have an F5 Champion, ie driver in first year, F4 Champion, experienced clubman, then F3 Modified and F2 Modified.

No point in re-inventing the wheel if it is already there.

The race computer can assign people into heats as per their 'F' grading.

MiCk B. :-)

Hi Mick,
Yes, the structure is there, but it needs a bit of tweeking.

I'll give you an example. At the moment, Ivan Thomson and Dave Bolger are both F4 Clubman drivers with different levels of ability. By changing the seeding system and moving Ivan out of F4 and into F3, Ivan is racing against racers of the same ability, as is Dave - giving both the opportunity to win their respective championships.

I'll put it to the committee at the next meeting.

[Sv1keith]

Originally Posted by Click

Hi Keith,

I agree with what you are saying.

Seems to be two proposals:

1. Create an intermediate class (I don't agree with this)

2. Classify clubman drivers, we still all race together but in the one race you could have two winners, one in each class and two 2nds etc.

With option 2 your concern of not being able to run with quicker clubman racers is sorted.

I can only speak for myself but I was not suggesting that these changes be made because slower drivers get in my way. It was an attempt to be fair to beginner drivers so they have a chance to win within their own class.

Hope this make sense!!

Kevin

Hi kevin

I'm easy just let it be in the hands of the committee as there is a rule book for the club f5 f4 f3 f2 we all want to have a good day at the end of it all , and the faster drivers don't scare me to easy its actually you guys that i am learning from like wise all the new commers to the club and thats where we need the experience like reading and learning we race and learn and pick it up from that , just like i'm sure you did at one stage starting

keith

[Sv1keith]

Had a bad day yesterday my appoligies kev

[Click]

Originally Posted by Sv1keith

Had a bad day yesterday my appoligies kev

Hi Keith,

No need to apologise

It's good to have an open discussion about how we race, it looks like at the end of the day Will has come up with a tweaked version of the existing structure which sounds like it might work.

All good on my end

Kevin

[Sv1keith]

Originally Posted by Click

Hi Keith,

No need to apologise

It's good to have an open discussion about how we race, it looks like at the end of the day Will has come up with a tweaked version of the existing structure which sounds like it might work.

All good on my end

Kevin

Happy days

let the summer racing commence