Clarifications to the GT12 Rules

[SlowOne]

If anyone had told me when these were written earlier this year that we would have clubs up and down the country adopting them and racing the cars, and over 40 places taken up at Nationals, I wouldn’t have believed them. Thank you to everyone who has taken this class up and raced it.

Time and your feedback have shown that there are those who are trying to understand the rules, and those who are testing them! So, time for some clarifications from the experience we have so far.

Carbon-fibre composite chassis – the intent was to prevent expensive, ‘must-have’ hop ups. To be clear, whatever the material supplied by the manufacturer for that car in their less-than £100 kit is the material you can use. You cannot upgrade the chassis material at all. Only chassis’ that come with the kit can be used.

Bodyshells – everyone has cut their shells to the cut lines on the moulding and seem happy with that. We’ll incorporate that as a rule to prevent any slamming of the shells which may then require low-profile electronics. The rear bumper line on the GT1 (Exige) is obvious, but the Ascari isn’t. Rules for that will be proposed after seeing what Kamtec and Mardave can help with.

We’ll be putting forward a proposal that the shells must be painted in the style of a current GT car, and not in some free-form war-paint, airbrushed style. This will preserve the look of the class and it’s attractiveness to new drivers. That will be voted at the EGM next April; no change for this season.

Feedback says that the numbers we use for the classes aren’t descriptive and are difficult to remember. We will propose to re-name GT12.1 as GT12 SuperCup, and GT12.2 as GT12 Production to make it easier to identify which is which.

GT12 Production hasn’t taken up well. I wonder if the lack of a differential is an issue here. If we allowed a differential in this class, do we think it would improve the take-up? Your comments by post here, e-mail or PM to me, would be welcomed.

The 21.5 class has become redundant. It was there because there were too few 1S-ready speed controllers at a fair price. With the new Mardave and Schumacher controllers now available for only £15 more than a good booster on its own, there is no reason to use 2S. Obviously clubs can do what they want, but for Nationals it is a redundant rule and will be removed.

Peter Winton
GT12 Co-ordinator, BRCA 12th Section Committee

If you have any proposals you would like to see proposed at the EGM, proposal forms will be circulated around March 2013, with our EGM being held in April 2013. Every BRCA member is welcome. Any discussions on here might help see what support you have.

[andy110m]

I agree with most of these points, I think the success of this class is superb, I must confess to not racing it myself but it is/was the support class at some local clubs, I think it my now be the dominant class.

The only rule proposal I don't like relates to the bodyshell colours. Most racers develop their own colours and scheme. I'd like to see these and their individualisum continue.

But thats the only thing, long live the class!

[dale]

Originally Posted by andy110m

I agree with most of these points, I think the success of this class is superb, I must confess to not racing it myself but it is/was the support class at some local clubs, I think it my now be the dominant class.

The only rule proposal I don't like relates to the bodyshell colours. Most racers develop their own colours and scheme. I'd like to see these and their individualisum continue.

But thats the only thing, long live the class!

I do race GT12 myself. Fantastic class and only going to get more popular. Agree with everything apart from the bodyshell colours, as said I have my own colours that I run on all my cars

[neallewis]

I've been racing my Schumacher since the week they came out and have thoroughly enjoyed it, as I last raced 12th and mardave ministock 22years+ ago. Really enjoyed the class at my local club YMRC, which moved from a purely mardave club to the gt12 early on. Clarification of some rules is needed, as I see confusion outside of my club, on forums and gt12 facebook group. Too many rules and regs will surely kill the class as quick as it arrived however.

Personally I think the class works very well with 1S/13.5t/blinky, and the notion of running 2S/21.5 should be dropped as it only confuses newcomers, meaning they could spend on that setup, then discover they have to spend again.

bodyshell painting rules are a ridiculous idea. If I had a real GT race car, I could paint it how I wished!

I don't see the need for separate gt12.1 or .2 classes. It should just be gt12 as the gt12.1 rules. Every car I see has some form of non kit mod, be it different battery holders, Ali nuts or a diff. Every mardave owner I know has none kit bits, as do lots of Schumacher owners. Sure limit titanium turnbuckles and carbon chassis hopups, etc, but if you are going to have box stock and hopupped cars in different classes, but running on the track together, what's the point? Just run with one class. box stock car can be setup and driven to win over a modded car with a diff, etc with good setup and driving. People will always like to add little upgrades to any car in any price range. Sure no non-kit titanium or carbon is fair though, with the £99 kit price limit. You don't require a diff to win, and the split of mardave/ Schumacher chassis at meetings prove both work at all levels, Z to A final.

[reg]

As said above,I dont agree with the body shell design,yes an authentic design does look nice,but as said above,alot of people(my self included)over the years have got there own colours and design.

[luniemiester]

I've been looking at this class for a few weeks now as an alternative to off-road and I also don't like the proposed rule regarding the painting of the shells. I use my own design and colours on all my cars, I couldn't even tell you what a real GT car paint job looks like as I don't follow GT racing but I do like the look of this class for close cheap racing. What would happen if you had 4-5 drivers in the same race with the same paint scheme - new spectators wouldn't know which car was which after a few laps.....

If I remember correctly they tried to bring this rule in when the F1 cars became popular again and I dropped out of that as it made me lose interest.

[sparkyboy22]

Originally Posted by luniemiester

I couldn't even tell you what a real GT car paint job looks like as I don't follow GT racing

There are only around 10 designs and I dont think theres a decent looking one between them!

Originally Posted by neallewis

Personally I think the class works very well with 1S/13.5t/blinky, and the notion of running 2S/21.5 should be dropped as it only confuses newcomers, meaning they could spend on that setup, then discover they have to spend again.

I went 2S to start with and the bought another set of electrics to switch to 1S. Really should try and avoid this but dont forget all the others that have already set themselves up at 2S

[TrevCoult]

Originally Posted by sparkyboy22

I went 2S to start with and the bought another set of electrics to switch to 1S. Really should try and avoid this but dont forget all the others that have already set themselves up at 2S

Don't forget these rules are for nationals only. Clubs can still run what they like. 2s is being removed from these rules as it has just confused what is actually allowed to be used at nationals. 2s was only originally added to the rules in the first place for clubs.

I must have seen well over 100 GT12s now and I have NEVER seen a 2s car. It must be a regional thing. It is definitely much rarer than 1s.

Paint scheme - remember it is a proposal, not a rule. Seems to be almost universally unpopular. I have suggested an alternative on the other forum.

Trev

[russmini]

Bodyshells, agree with the majority so far. I've got two being done at the moment and I actually said to Carl to do them in my colours and style, but to tweak the design to better fit a GT shell. I'm awaiting the outcome.

Diffs, already replied on this one on Racechat, NO! In GT12 Production. That really is all you need to go up that next level, it makes a Huge difference. They're £32, which is a 3rd of a whole kit! And as for running stock Neal, I do. I ran box stock all National weekend and admittedly was not at the front (lack of diff), but ran pretty well tbh.

Keep GT12 Production as Box Stock. Nothing allowed extra, just different springs, o-rings and foams, that's all.

And no to everyone thinking, well you run your LiPo system. At the National I took it off and ran Velcro, and yes, it was horrible, lol.

[SlowOne]

Thanks for all the considered feedback it is appreciated.

General consensus is that the body painting is not a good idea, but there is some support for having lights, grilles, windows as per the real cars, and not stylised.

Most want to keep GT12.2 (Production) as it is, so there's a no-brainer!

Thanks again to everyone who has contributed to the debate. The EGM is next April so plenty of time for more views and ideas.

[foggy444]

Fully agree with everyone on the bodyshell proposal. I think we should all be able to go with our own schemes. But I do agree that lights should be depicted in all cases. Not so sure about grills, but that's because my painting skills are rudimentary at best and I despise stick on decals with a passion!

As to renaming the classes I agree with that, but think the rules need to be tougher on the 'production' class ie, control motor, speedo and battery as well as a control tyre.

A lot of people will disagree with this but it would make for a very cheap pure stock class, and might even encourage more take up at the national level.

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by foggy444

Fully agree with everyone on the bodyshell proposal. I think we should all be able to go with our own schemes. But I do agree that lights should be depicted in all cases. Not so sure about grills, but that's because my painting skills are rudimentary at best and I despise stick on decals with a passion!

As to renaming the classes I agree with that, but think the rules need to be tougher on the 'production' class ie, control motor, speedo and battery as well as a control tyre.

A lot of people will disagree with this but it would make for a very cheap pure stock class, and might even encourage more take up at the national level.

assuming you have done a national , you would know that control tyre is a no go as both chassis use different shores to stop grip roll or even get grip, you could end up with one tyre and one of each car that suits the grip/tyre on the day
as for control speedo motor etc, that adds cost as the only way to police that is have a set motor/speedo/lipo, some racers use old speedos or given speedos to keep cost down and you will force them to buy a "spec" set
the idea is to have both classis run side by side

[Dave Dodd]

we included 2s at our club to make it easier for members to switch to gt12, although we only have 3 2s drivers all the rest are 1s.

as for control electrics it would be expensive and unfair to all who have paid out already.

control foams wouldnt work as the 2 chassis's work differently

[SlowOne]

Control tyres is a no-no in foam classes as Mark says. Only if the cars are way over-tyred, like GT10s, does it have any merit. Bearing in mind the price and the lack of wear, tyres are not an expense in the same way as any other electric class.

The control electrics is more interesting. Whilst it seems like a good idea, there are so many second-hand items on the market these days that it is often cheaper to go that route than to buy even the great deals from Mardave and Schumacher. Also, as Dave Dodd points out, if we change the rules now, those wanting to enter next year will have to fork out again for all their electrics.

The reality is that control classes have never worked. Back in the early 1980s 8th Track tried a thing called Club 20. I think every electric and gas Section has tried a control of some area of their rules or another, all have failed completely. In electrics, we are left with control tyres in TC and Off-Road and that's it. Since GT12 control tyres will give everyone a headache at one time or another due to track, car and driving style differences, it's not something that should be contemplated.

Thanks again for everyone's interest in GT12, it is appreciated.

[SlowOne]

Double post.

[Robocop]

Think the only thing i want gone is reverse,how many times have you passed a car that has reverse for it to shoot out and hit you ??

[russmini]

Yep, totally agree. Especially at Nationals. If you're at a level where you attend and race at a National, then you shouldn't need reverse!
It also makes sure everyone knows if you crash, to go and get you. Marshalls hesitate now, just in case you have reverse and they're wasting their time going to get you. Also reversing out into other competitors path and causing crashes and ruining their race.. And flying out under Marshalls feet...

As you can see, I detest Reverse, it should be Banned at Nationals, and Regionals for that matter... Club racing, maybe allowed, but only in Heat 1.

[LongRat]

While the bodyshell painting rule is not a good idea, worse still is the limitation on the shells themselves. I don't understand why we can't use any shell available for the chassis. They are all made by the same company anyway, and there are so many to choose from! That's probably the thing I like the most about the class. Why shouldn't I be allowed to come and test my mk1 Escort against the Ascaris? Works pretty well at my club.

[SlowOne]

For the same reason you are not allowed to use Sports shells at a TC race, saloon shells in 8th Track F1, Indy cars in the F1 class - this class is for GT cars currently running in British and FIA GT classes.

The class is not for the chassis with any shell, it is for GT cars running chassis conforming to those rules. There are classes for Mk1 Escorts and all the other shells Kamtec offer, so if you want to run a shell there is probably a class for it. More shells will be available in the months to come for GT12, so hopefully there will be one that takes your fancy. HTH

[RCMadShane]

Well I am amazed to read you guys all talking about dropping the 21.5 2s as this is almost the only setup which is run at our club also the Chippenham Winter Indoor Championship as around 20 drivers running the Superstox and I am sure nearly all of them have converted to the 2s system because of issues running 13.5.
Going forward the rules need to be sorted, worrying about body shells is small fry compared the mess that will be caused by changing the entire electrics of the car.. can we please get the core sorted.