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  #61  
Old 16-12-2014
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who says 2wd mid doesnt work on low grip, mine is easier to drive on low grip than my b4 is by a long way. they can work, you just need to set them up, also where is the motor on the icelandic off road buggies and the desert buggies, they are all mid and front!

Last edited by dodgydiy; 16-12-2014 at 06:15 PM.
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  #62  
Old 31-12-2014
Taro98 Taro98 is offline
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I think there should be a rule which where the motor can be on the car e.g 500mm mid motor and 250mm rear or any other mesurement which facilitates either a mid or rear motored car without extra cost of a conversion kit etc.
therefore this would add challenge in terms of driving the car and also most cars being competitive out of the box rather than dishing out more money on a conversion kit to make the car competitive on astroturf or any other surface. therefore saving both money and more racing enjoyment and a equal field to be running in.
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  #63  
Old 31-12-2014
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Default pointless.

2wd = rear wheels driven.

4wd = all 4 wheels driven....

where the motor is positioned, does not matter.

same as a 4wd with front diff/shafts removed becomes a 2wd.

END OF.

anything else on the subject is just pointless chit chat and means nothing.

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  #64  
Old 01-01-2015
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now, just to stir things up, i think originalreclaimbord would disagree strongly with that last statement.... 2wd, one pair of wheels driven only, there are such things as front wheel drive cars you know, he is developing one properly and there are several others with one off prototypes having great fun with them
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  #65  
Old 01-01-2015
mitsirfishi mitsirfishi is offline
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Does it really matter ? in the wet I find i can squirt on the power better. all comes down to personal preference

If the difference was as dramatic putting a piston engine against rotary engine. then everything would be mid motor.
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  #66  
Old 01-01-2015
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I know it's not faster but I also prefer the feel of a rear motored buggy. Which rm buggy would everyone advice for use on carpet. I know it's not the best layout for this type of track but which is the best of the bunch would you say?
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  #67  
Old 01-01-2015
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I personally feel that you should buy the layout you feel suits you and the tracks you race on most. Learn how to set it up and have fun.
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  #68  
Old 01-01-2015
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I know I am only recently back in rc, so not the best qualified to answer, but I recently switched my bmax2 to rm layout and switched to plastic chassis from the worlds alloy I normally use. I have to say that the few indoor (slippery) meets I have run at in rm layout have been superb fun. I know my set up is not good and my driving even worse, but it is genuinely great fun to drive knowing that the back end is swinging out at the corners.

I'd not object to the original hypothesis, but know that it is only a topic for discussion
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  #69  
Old 01-01-2015
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there is no way you can buy a win you can either drive or you can't buying a new chassis every week wont get you any skill. practice with any chassis will beat trying to buy a win
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  #70  
Old 02-01-2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keenbutkrap View Post
there is no way you can buy a win you can either drive or you can't buying a new chassis every week wont get you any skill. practice with any chassis will beat trying to buy a win
Here here!!
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  #71  
Old 02-01-2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TARTMAN View Post
2wd = rear wheels driven.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dodgydiy View Post
now, just to stir things up, i think originalreclaimbord would disagree strongly with that last statement.... 2wd, one pair of wheels driven only, there are such things as front wheel drive cars you know, he is developing one properly and there are several others with one off prototypes having great fun with them
I strongly disagree indeed, but the fact I'm developing a FWD is not the only reason - see here (link) my earlier post.

On a regular basis I come across the problem that the majority of regulations are (still) written in the assumption that all 2WDs are rear wheel drive.

As such for example, regulated tires are often stated by 'rear' and 'front', not 'driven axles.' It's a bit weird, considering it would be sufficient to state that drivers should use one pair of '(2WD) front' tires on the car, and one pair of 'rear' tires - so it's logical to put the wider tires on the axles with which you put the power down - It's highly unlikely that a RWD buggy will go faster with the wide tires up front and the narrow ones on the back, or any 2WD buggy with two wide tires on one side... so why ban it!? Anyone bold (and bonkers ) enough to try it out will give everyone a good laugh, and if it results in a race win with it that driver deserves that prize!
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Last edited by Origineelreclamebord; 02-01-2015 at 10:12 AM.
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  #72  
Old 02-01-2015
wbridge wbridge is offline
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Ive read these posts , with curiosity ........ I have recently returned to racing and see allot has changed....

I will most likely be running a cougar Kr on astro turf when i start next season in belgium, allot of surprised looks from ppl seeing its a rear motored car, In my understanding its just about weight distibution and balance of the car on certain tracks and that is the question....... is not about the set up of each car depending on the motor position? in which case does it really matter where the motor is? after all a good setup on any car is gonna help ie a badly set up mid motored car in my guess will struggle against a rear motered car thats got a good set up ( driving skill not taken into account) on astro and vise versa.

take what car you have and do your best with it no matter the track type regardless of where the motor sits , matters not to me
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  #73  
Old 02-01-2015
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as wbridge says, its all setup, any 2wd with a spot on setup will be faster than one thats a bit unstable, and the abilities of most of these chassis be it rear, mid or front motor far exceeds the majority of our driving abilities, its only the real top line world champ level drivers that might benefit by a tenth of a second. so many people say oh but i am this much faster with car x than car y, but how much work did they do in making the car right for their driving style in the first place
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  #74  
Old 02-01-2015
CARB CARB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wbridge View Post
Ive read these posts , with curiosity ........ I have recently returned to racing and see allot has changed....

I will most likely be running a cougar Kr on astro turf when i start next season in belgium, allot of surprised looks from ppl seeing its a rear motored car, In my understanding its just about weight distibution and balance of the car on certain tracks and that is the question....... is not about the set up of each car depending on the motor position? in which case does it really matter where the motor is? after all a good setup on any car is gonna help ie a badly set up mid motored car in my guess will struggle against a rear motered car thats got a good set up ( driving skill not taken into account) on astro and vise versa.

take what car you have and do your best with it no matter the track type regardless of where the motor sits , matters not to me

You are in for a big dissapointment if you think a KR on Astro can be set up to come anywhere close to a mid motor car, but go for for it.
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  #75  
Old 02-01-2015
mattr mattr is offline
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A really really well set up rear motor car, with a really good driver, who doesn't make any mistakes will not be a huge amount faster than an average set up, average driver using a mid/front motored car.

The biggest advantage i found was not how quick it was, but how forgiving, with rear motor the wrong line or a minor slip would see you disappearing into the bushes backwards at speed, with mid/front, you just get abit squirrelly, then correct and continue.
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  #76  
Old 02-01-2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CARB View Post
You are in for a big dissapointment if you think a KR on Astro can be set up to come anywhere close to a mid motor car, but go for for it.
Up until a few years ago they were all rear motor and went round pretty well..

If the car was set up well it would be fine. Having seen them run on ultra high grip astro at Silverstome they can pefform well and hold their own against the mids..
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  #77  
Old 02-01-2015
wbridge wbridge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam F View Post
Up until a few years ago they were all rear motor and went round pretty well..

If the car was set up well it would be fine. Having seen them run on ultra high grip astro at Silverstome they can pefform well and hold their own against the mids..
Agreed. I have seen rear motered cars do reasonably well against others. In my old days mind. I don't see why they won't now. I don't know why the kr will be that disappointing if the set up is good and i can drive it well. If it is then i also have an sv2 . but i would like to try rear motor . kr was designed for low grip but if done right may also work on other surfaces.
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  #78  
Old 02-01-2015
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I was at Off road wars last winter and in my me round of qualifying a few of the A final guys tried their rear motor cars

Darren Bloomfield (then TLR) and Ellis (then Durango) got their rear motor cars round very well indeed, they were 0.2 a sec a lap off their mid motor cars but looked a bit more hard work to pedal round the track
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  #79  
Old 02-01-2015
SlowOne SlowOne is offline
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Anything can be made to work well providing the design is continually updated. Look at a rear-motor Porsche 911 with the motor hanging out of the back, or any front wheel drive car with the motor hanging out of the front - both are a triumph of engineering over design.

There is no reason that a rear-engine car cannot be made fast, but it is easier to fiddle around with the weight distribution on a model car as the fine tolerances required to engineer a proper suspension for a rear-motor car are just unobtainable at our scale. You can scale any dimensions, but not the Laws of Physics.

As this thread meanders on it becomes more irrelevant by the post. Two-wheel drive under the current rules is simply that - two driven wheels. At the last AGM the Off-Road section couldn't muster enough people to fill a call box, so that gives you some idea how many people actually care about this subject. Drive two wheels and drive your car; it's as simple as that.

Posts from Tartman and Keenbutcrap say all there is to say on the subject; end of...
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  #80  
Old 02-01-2015
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Ritchie T Ritchie T is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy View Post
I was going to make the point that there was nothing cheap about bloomfields wins and if you believe he didn't have ALL available cars in his van just in case then you're all mad
But its irrelevant how many cars he had in his van, if you wanted to compete you only needed to buy 1 car.
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