Exotek TLR22 steering rack conversion set

[cunawarit]

Anyone seen this yet?







http://www.redrc.net/2013/04/exotek-...onversion-set/

I'm new to the Losi 22, and I have to say that largely it is awesome but one things that puzzles me is the steering. I just can't see how two massive surfaces sliding against one another is a good idea for an off road car that is likely to get dusty and dirty.

This seems cool, but it does move the servo 6 mm back, which means fitting a full size servo might be impossible.

[Razer]

I ordered mine yesterday. If you don't keep your ESC up front, it would work in the midmotor with a full size servo. This first one will probably end up in my clay car, but I might order one for the mid as well, and put it in with a Spektrum S6070 low profile.

It looks to be a great quality kit that doesn't require modifications, and that's also what other customers of Exotek parts are saying. I'll measure the weight distribution before and after I mount it

[Robby]

Originally Posted by cunawarit

Anyone seen this yet?

I'm new to the Losi 22, and I have to say that largely it is awesome but one things that puzzles me is the steering. I just can't see how two massive surfaces sliding against one another is a good idea for an off road car that is likely to get dusty and dirty.

This seems cool, but it does move the servo 6 mm back, which means fitting a full size servo might be impossible.

Seen it, not impressed.
Also not impressed with the $70USD pricetag, which is roughly 1/3 the price of the entire car.

When I look at upgrades for a car, I'm wanting them to replace design flaws, or problem items and/or parts that require regular replacement because of breakage/wear. This doesn't fit the bill in either case.
Like many I've had my original 22 for 3 years now, and I've since added 3 others to the stable (another buggy, a 22T, and a 22SCT) and during that time I've replaced exactly one steering rack due to breakage, which is not beyond the realm of expectation considering the amount of massive hits the front end has taken during that period.
You mention "two massive surfaces sliding against one another" and yet what I see here is four more bearings, and their mounting points, that will require routine maintenance to keep operating properly, which will require complete disassembly of the front of the car. Meanwhile I clean the rack system with a shot of compressed air.


Personally, I've always thought the steering rack design of the 22 to be more modern, progressive, and ground-breaking -- and that the use of the old-school bellcrank design to oh so 1980s. In concept, the difference between rack-and-pinion steering on a 1:1 car and recirculating ball/box. One has comparatively few moving parts, is lighter weight, and is more precise - while the other has many moving parts, weighs a ton comparatively (because it "has" to be made out of alloy), and is just going backwards engineering-wise. And considering the requirement of moving the servo rearwards, in a car already cramped for space (and thus requiring the purchase of a low profile servo for its use, which has already been problematic for many people), it now turns this 45£ conversion into a 90£ conversion.

But there will always be those whose answer to everything is to throw another 100£ note their cars to fix something that ain't broken.

[Frecklychimp]

Originally Posted by Robby

Seen it, not impressed.
Also not impressed with the $70USD pricetag, which is roughly 1/3 the price of the entire car.

When I look at upgrades for a car, I'm wanting them to replace design flaws, or problem items and/or parts that require regular replacement because of breakage/wear. This doesn't fit the bill in either case.
Like many I've had my original 22 for 3 years now, and I've since added 3 others to the stable (another buggy, a 22T, and a 22SCT) and during that time I've replaced exactly one steering rack due to breakage, which is not beyond the realm of expectation considering the amount of massive hits the front end has taken during that period.
You mention "two massive surfaces sliding against one another" and yet what I see here is four more bearings, and their mounting points, that will require routine maintenance to keep operating properly, which will require complete disassembly of the front of the car. Meanwhile I clean the rack system with a shot of compressed air.


Personally, I've always thought the steering rack design of the 22 to be more modern, progressive, and ground-breaking -- and that the use of the old-school bellcrank design to oh so 1980s. In concept, the difference between rack-and-pinion steering on a 1:1 car and recirculating ball/box. One has comparatively few moving parts, is lighter weight, and is more precise - while the other has many moving parts, weighs a ton comparatively (because it "has" to be made out of alloy), and is just going backwards engineering-wise. And considering the requirement of moving the servo rearwards, in a car already cramped for space (and thus requiring the purchase of a low profile servo for its use, which has already been problematic for many people), it now turns this 45£ conversion into a 90£ conversion.

But there will always be those whose answer to everything is to throw another 100£ note their cars to fix something that ain't broken.

You obviously miss the point or are in complete denial on the design issues this aims to solve and the inherent 22 handling issues this aims at fixing.

I've talked to a couple of UK afterrmarket companies ages ago about making something similar and will definitely be trying this Exotex mod... it's going to make a big difference

[Shaun_TLR]

Originally Posted by Robby

Seen it, not impressed.
Also not impressed with the $70USD pricetag, which is roughly 1/3 the price of the entire car.

When I look at upgrades for a car, I'm wanting them to replace design flaws, or problem items and/or parts that require regular replacement because of breakage/wear. This doesn't fit the bill in either case.
Like many I've had my original 22 for 3 years now, and I've since added 3 others to the stable (another buggy, a 22T, and a 22SCT) and during that time I've replaced exactly one steering rack due to breakage, which is not beyond the realm of expectation considering the amount of massive hits the front end has taken during that period.
You mention "two massive surfaces sliding against one another" and yet what I see here is four more bearings, and their mounting points, that will require routine maintenance to keep operating properly, which will require complete disassembly of the front of the car. Meanwhile I clean the rack system with a shot of compressed air.


Personally, I've always thought the steering rack design of the 22 to be more modern, progressive, and ground-breaking -- and that the use of the old-school bellcrank design to oh so 1980s. In concept, the difference between rack-and-pinion steering on a 1:1 car and recirculating ball/box. One has comparatively few moving parts, is lighter weight, and is more precise - while the other has many moving parts, weighs a ton comparatively (because it "has" to be made out of alloy), and is just going backwards engineering-wise. And considering the requirement of moving the servo rearwards, in a car already cramped for space (and thus requiring the purchase of a low profile servo for its use, which has already been problematic for many people), it now turns this 45£ conversion into a 90£ conversion.

But there will always be those whose answer to everything is to throw another 100£ note their cars to fix something that ain't broken.

I do agree with some of your points, but 6mm really isn't going to make a whole world of difference. Mounting the speed/rx on the mid motor brace sorts all space issues in the 22. Infact, I run a micro rx, orion r10 and LP Savox up front.Yes its a squeeze, but its not impossible.

I'd prob give this a go for it not have been $70

[MikePimlott]

I wonder if the ackerman bar can be flipped to move the ballstuds further back?

Id like to try this!

[Robby]

Originally Posted by Frecklychimp

You obviously miss the point or are in complete denial on the design issues this aims to solve and the inherent 22 handling issues this aims at fixing.

You obviously are coming up with a non-existent "handling issue."
TLR has been great about making running changes in these cars to address any problems, so if there was one with the steering rack it seems it would have been an easy fix.

But you're welcome to throw your money at anything you want if it makes you feel better.

[Robby]

Originally Posted by Shaun_TLR

I do agree with some of your points, but 6mm really isn't going to make a whole world of difference. Mounting the speed/rx on the mid motor brace sorts all space issues in the 22. Infact, I run a micro rx, orion r10 and LP Savox up front.Yes its a squeeze, but its not impossible.

I'd prob give this a go for it not have been $70

I suppose if you do mount something on the transmission brace, or use a mod like this > http://www.petitrc.com/setup/losi/se...fModification/ > you're good to go.

[Shaun_TLR]

Originally Posted by Robby

I suppose if you do mount something on the transmission brace, or use a mod like this > http://www.petitrc.com/setup/losi/se...fModification/ > you're good to go.

This is great if your running a normall battery, if it leaves no room for saddles unfortuantely.

[Darren Boyle]

The new 22 steering sets are now on their way to us, demand has been very high so far, so get in touch with your local dealer and get them to pre-order you one if you are looking at getting one.

The UK RRP has worked out to £59.99, which whilst we agree it is not the cheapest of upgrade parts, it is pretty good value considering you get a pair of alloy bellcranks, alloy rack, pair of steering posts, alloy servo mounts, ballraces and all hardware required.....

Pre-order now through you preferred X-Factory UK dealer....

[paulj]

Originally Posted by Frecklychimp

You obviously miss the point or are in complete denial on the design issues this aims to solve and the inherent 22 handling issues this aims at fixing.

I've talked to a couple of UK afterrmarket companies ages ago about making something similar and will definitely be trying this Exotex mod... it's going to make a big difference

Hi Frecklychimp, what do you see as the handling issue with the stock rack?

I'm quite new to the 22 having only recently returned to racing so not noticed any issues yet with the rack but Darren Bloomfield has just won the first national of the year with his 22 complete with a stock rack? I'm interested in how you believe this mod would change the handling?

[Frecklychimp]

Ackermann

[cunawarit]

In all honesty I can't judge the durability of the sliding steering rack on the 22. I haven't had my 22 for that long, but I did buy it second hand and the previous owner gave me a very worn out one in the spares bag. Was this due to a design fault or lack of maintenance and cleaning? I don't know.

I do like the 22's steering for its compactness, I do worry a little about durability but then again with regular cleaning there's a chance it could be OK.

There's nothing wrong with old fashioned "80s" bellcrank designs, I've had those last an eternity! Over 15 years and only changed it as the plastic got ugly and yellow.

[cunawarit]

Originally Posted by paulj

Hi Frecklychimp, what do you see as the handling issue with the stock rack?

I'm curious as well.

I'm quite new to the 22 having only recently returned to racing so not noticed any issues yet with the rack but Darren Bloomfield has just won the first national of the year with his 22 complete with a stock rack? I'm interested in how you believe this mod would change the handling?

I'm particularly curious as I haven't noticed anything seriously wrong with the 22's handling. But then I'm not that good a driver, so perhaps I am not in the best position to appreciate the subtle improvements a different car might offer.

I'm also curious about Bloomfield's success, because so many times I've read or been told that the 22's motor is too far forward. Yet Bloomfield won. Has he just figured out how to set up the 22 better than anyone else before?

[paulj]

Here is the link to DB's Nationals setup from Kiddy so you can see what he did to make his 22 work...

http://www.horizonhobby.co.uk/autoon...cles_pg30.html

[Frecklychimp]

The durability of stock 22 steering rack is fine, it is also easy to maintain... on wet astro or dusty tracks it definitely needs cleaning out between runs to stop any sand/dirt clogging/jamming it or increasing wear on the rack components.

There are noticeable steering geometry differences/issues using a linear rack in comparison to radial bellcranks.

Has nobody ever wondered why the 22 has so much steering? why you are sometimes running a lot less tyre than others? why the front tyres can scrub so much on some surfaces? why it's always front end component changes that bring the biggest improvements in making it easier to drive?

i love the 22, but it certainly isn't the easiest 2WD car to drive

Easiest way to compare if you can't physically see it... is to get some graph paper and a compass, measure and plot the full size steering action of a 22, then compare it in the same diagram in a different colour ink of a car with bellcranks

[cunawarit]

I've seen it.

[Robby]

Originally Posted by cunawarit

In all honesty I can't judge the durability of the sliding steering rack on the 22. I haven't had my 22 for that long, but I did buy it second hand and the previous owner gave me a very worn out one in the spares bag. Was this due to a design fault or lack of maintenance and cleaning? I don't know.

That's all I'm saying, it's a £4 plastic part. Replacing something like that, as part of one's annual rebuild (including arms, etc) isn't out of expectation. But £100, after everything's said and done, to fix something that's not broken just seems out of whack with reality.

I know, these sort of bling-things tend to get people all-a-slobbering. I get it.
I'm just waiting until the jury's out to see if there's any actual benefit.

[Frecklychimp]

Originally Posted by cunawarit

I'm curious as well.



I'm also curious about Bloomfield's success, because so many times I've read or been told that the 22's motor is too far forward. Yet Bloomfield won. Has he just figured out how to set up the 22 better than anyone else before?

ask yourself if the 22 motor position was such a design issue... why does the Rudebits DB1 and Team C TM2 work well?

It's not down to where motor is positioned, it's about balancing a whole car with set up, weight distribution and geometry and then being in harmony as a driver with your car plus making good decisions on conditions and tyres.

Bloomers had a fantastic result at Kiddy and wasn't using any magic secret parts either, on the day he was on good form, in harmony with his car and able to bring it home for the win

[cunawarit]

Originally Posted by Frecklychimp

i love the 22, but it certainly isn't the easiest 2WD car to drive

WOW! I find the 22 insanely easy to drive.

Mind you, I am coming from a hopped up Traxxas that although it ended up being relatively quick and cornering relatively fast it was SO tough to drive. It required you to be SO incredibly accurate with the controls... By comparison I can throw the 22 around with near complete abandon! The thing I love about my 22 is how insanely easy it is to drive