Worlds

[RogerM]

Seeing that picture brings back memories of where I first started racing, Alcester Buggy Club when it was still at the rugby club venue. That was a part top soil, part clay, part diesel track. I remember Schumacher blue tires coming out and everybody suddenly going 2s per lap faster, those where the days ... Optima Mids then Lazer's dominating the self disassembling Schumachers

[nevens]

I can't see last bits of the report, ends at 4WD final 1...
Excellent report btw, as always

[DEXtrain]

Originally Posted by Richard Lowe

It's not the surface IMO, it's the jumps mainly the US guys are instantly comfortable on.

The quad in 4wd was easily the biggest jump I've ever raced 10th on, and landing in an area 2-3 feet long after a >6 foot high, >20 foot long jump is not something you learn to do overnight!

Richard ,aside from the fact that such huge jumps are a challenge,did you actually enjoy them? It seems as if big events try to make the jumps lager and larger all the time just to impress... Not to mention that car design solutions /layouts are severely limited when you got to perform well in those huge jumps...Don't know about others but the huge jump thing is starting to get old with me as well as expensive regarding breakages...

[Richard Lowe]

Originally Posted by DEXtrain

Richard ,aside from the fact that such huge jumps are a challenge,did you actually enjoy them? It seems as if big events try to make the jumps lager and larger all the time just to impress... Not to mention that car design solutions /layouts are severely limited when you got to perform well in those huge jumps...Don't know about others but the huge jump thing is starting to get old with me as well as expensive regarding breakages...

Nothing wrong with having large jumps IMO if they are well designed

The big double was a bit of an issue in 2wd trying to keep the nose down, the changes I made to the car were very biased to making the car jump properly and then 'living with it' round the rest of the track, yet in 4wd with all wheels braking the jump was no issue. The quad in 2wd was fun because it was just that bit too long to do all in one reliably so nobody really tried, but there was time to be made landing smoothly and giving it a quick squirt between 3 and 4. In 4wd though it was gash IMO, it was such a lottery as to if your car would survive even if you landed properly.

To give you an idea how rough a landing it was in Q2 4WD near the start of the run I landed about half way down the downslope of the last jump of the quad and the lugs on one side of my steering servo broke clean off

[flipside]

Originally Posted by Richard Lowe

the changes I made to the car were very biased to making the car jump properly

Did you try your c4.1 ?

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by F1END

Are you seriously suggesting that driving on clay week in week out, instead of astroturf or grass, for over 6 months doesn't give an advantage at all to foreign drivers?

I'm not for a minute suggesting that the top 20 drivers wouldn't still be the top 20 drivers on astroturf, just that the order of that top 20 might be a little different.

Experience and practice counts for a lot at that level, knowing exactly how a car will handle in any conditions. I'm just not sure the British drivers have enough practice on dirt.

I heard a quote from Lee Martin saying he couldn't quite get the set-up right for his 511. If he had been driving on clay all year, he'd have had it pretty much right when he turned up there.

Why is it we don't have any dirt tracks here? It's not like we're the only country in the world that has rain.

Dude, Cragg won his worlds on dirt, and TQ'd this year.

You shoulda seen when he won 2wd in Italy, the Americans were going off about the traction being low in Italy.

You can't please everyone

But by suggesting the Americans have an advantage I think actually is putting down your local drivers. A Brit won the warm against all of those big guns, Crag and lee right up there, even Jorn doesn't race on tracks like that all the time, plus I doubt Matsukara had raced on astro jumps before.

You guys have awesome drivers, and they jus missed some luck this year (Cragg in 2wd)

The worlds best will adapt quickly to any track or surface, and it just so happens that 'the Cav' probably drove the most consistent to take it.

I feel for you guys about not racing on Astro, but I think the dirt rule is a good one as dirt is what the majority of the world race on, and it is a world event.

I hope you guys get one in the UK soon though, that would be ace

[RogerM]

From my understanding the Worlds will always be on a dirt track due to marketing ... the manufactures are often judged by the general racers by how they performed at the Worlds and as something like 95-98% of the worlds racing population will race on dirt tracks more often than anything else that is the surface the cars need to be seen performing on!

It's simple economics really.

[F1END]

I never said the Americans have an advantage... just that the Brits have a disadvantage.

I'm also not suggesting the Worlds are held on Astro.

I'm suggesting we have more dirt/clay tracks here in the UK that get used lots leading up to the Worlds. Maybe then we could have a go at hosting it too.

Ideally a dirt track with a sliding roof like at Wimbledon

[SlowOne]

Originally Posted by RogerM

From my understanding the Worlds will always be on a dirt track due to marketing ... the manufactures are often judged by the general racers by how they performed at the Worlds and as something like 95-98% of the worlds racing population will race on dirt tracks more often than anything else that is the surface the cars need to be seen performing on!

It's simple economics really.

IMFAR Rule 5.1 SURFACE
Pack able rock free dirt - preferably sifted top soil/clay compound with minimum amounts of sand. Surface should be able to be easily broken and repaired to ensure a consistent and wide racing line.

Nothing to do with marketing, it's an IFMAR Rule that must be met by the organiser. Not quite sure how the astro tops to the double and quad got through, I guess every Bloc agreed to it prior to the event. Having said which, most cars never touched them much anyway!! HTH

[RogerM]

I have my suspicions that the reason that rule was passed was because that is what the manufactures wanted .... why would you want the World Championship show case event to be held on a surface other than what 95+% of your potential customers will be racing on?????

Behind all sporting regulations there are 2 things ... money or safety

[SlowOne]

As part of IFMAR all those years ago, it wasn't the manufacturers. They can lobby their National Associations by all means, but the reality is that the Rule decisions are taken by the Blocs, and there were then no manufacturer members of IFMAR.

The Rule reflects the fact that it is really only EFRA, and in majority the UK, that runs on non-dirt tracks. The USA is almost exclusively dirt, and most of the Far East (FEMCA) bloc too. There have been some pretty poor dirt tracks in the past (Detroit '91 springs to mind) so it isn't all plain sailing just because it is dirt.

One thing that was asked then, and would have to be asked now - would one of our grass or Astroturf tracks hold up throughout seven days of constant racing? AFAIK, it's never been tried. Seven days of the fastest, most powerful cars driven flat out by some of the best drivers in the World is a whole different ball game to a 2-day National. Where we have tried putting on an EFRA GP on grass in the past (Eden Park and Stafford) the track was like a ploughed field after just three days racing.

Hope that helps understand the issues, and I also hope that one day the WC will return to the UK - both Romsey '87 and Basildon '93 were on dirt tracks - and if it does, someone can put me down to do something in the organisation. I've been Race Director at three WCs and two ECs, and had a ball doing both! But first you'll need a dirt track...

[racingdwarf]

again, slough, a dirt track the could easly be made to cater for 10th

[Garry]

Apologies if its posted elsewhere, seems like the organisers aren't happy.

http://rcspecial.com/news/

1/10 Worlds Organisation Not Happy
August 5, 2011 | By Admin In Buggy,Electrics,Racing | Comments(0)

Letter by Jussi Luopajärvi, Project manager, 2011 IFMAR Electric Buggy Worlds.

IFMAR Electric Buggy Worlds finished Sunday 24th of July and in the evening banquet I as project manager made statement about my feelings about RC car racing and its current situation. Our club Vaasa Motorsport club has nowdecided that it is not taking part of any international race as organizers until the roles and responsibilities between different stakeholders are solved.

With international race we mean any IFMAR event, EFRA event or a black race. With stakeholders in this case we mean federations, manufacturers, media and organizers. From organizers point of view our sport is in a unacceptable situation. We feel that our work is taken as granted and that we are the only stakeholder to handle risks when it comes to organizing events and expanding the publicity of our sport. After our Worlds the big question was about the organizer of the next Worlds. Who is going to take the challenge and many thought it will be very difficult to find. Why? I think there is only one reason. The organizer will be pretty much alone with their problems.

Different stakeholders are blaming each other for different problems and no one is taking the responsibility. Our assumption is that the sport is growing, but a strong structure and cooperation between different stakeholders is missing. If the sport is growing, then we are in big problems in the near future. We as organizers cannot support this anymore. We have used every possible drop of blood, sweat and tears from our organization to help pushing our sport to next level (Electric Buggy Euros 2007, Rally Finland Nitrocross Championship 2010, IFMAR Electric Buggy Worlds 2011), but all the work is for nothing if nothing changes.

We hope that all stakeholders would sit around same table and decide the direction where RC car racing and the industry in general should be going in the future. Important question is also the roles what each one should have. We also think that IFMAR should be the one to take the leading role here and working in a close cooperation with different stakeholders to develop an agreement about the future. Model car committee of Finnish national motorsport federation (AKK Motorsport) agrees with Vaasa Motorsport club about the problems and these two organizations are available for any discussions or working groups regarding the issues stated.

[SlowOne]

Nothing changes...

We had the same issues when I was IFMAR Electric Chairman, and the same reluctance to sit down and deal with those issues. Part of my pitch for EFRA Chairman years ago was the desire to get races into all the EFRA countries and supporting them by using the experienced people from the larger countries - giving them support. I got two votes out of 16. I wanted that job and didn't get it, but at least I know I was going to tackle the right problem.

At every event, the Associations expect things to be better than the last event. The reality is that takes ever-increasing amounts of time and money. Then, whatever you've done, it isn't good enough. When something new arises, Rules are changed on the hoof, everyone wants to avoid upsetting people by leaning towards muddled compromise, and few people want to provide leadership or make decisions.

Contrast that with the 'big' events, like LRP Masters, DHI Cup, NEO, Cleveland, IIC, Snowbirds, etc. These are events regarded by the manufacturers as 'must do', and taken very seriously by drivers, sponsors and officials alike. They are generally lead by one person. There is no huge Rule book, there are no Team Managers, there is no International Jury (or other large group to shield Association Officials from their responsibilities) no Blocs to vote on partisan lines... nothing like any IFMAR or EFRA event. They run just fine, they are increasingly popular, they run annually and they are great. Why can they be such good meetings when they don't have all the Rules and paraphernalia of an EC or WC with the attendant problems listed above? It can be done by one person, so why do we need huge Committees?

Don't get me wrong, things aren't about to drop off a cliff, nor can we have ECs and WCs without recognition of those titles by everyone - this isn't boxing with three titles at every weight!! I recognise that 'speech' from the Vaasa organisers, and it rings true with things in the past. I hope the powers that be are listening.

[David Church]

I was at the Worlds and I spoke to a lot of the powers that be and they are well aware of what is going on!!!

As far as things not dropping off a cliff, well who really knows the answer to that.

One thing for sure is that officials have been there from the beginning and rules are a good thing to help regulate the sport.

I think things are set for a bumpy ride in the next few years. Our sport is growing and the amount of people racing will increase, but where they race is the bit I'm not sure about!