Martin Achter provisional pole - 2009 IFMAR Worlds

[Neil Skull]

Originally Posted by sparrow.2

Dallas won't really mind your email... The decision for which country to run the worlds in is a rotational one always jumping from one regional organisation to another...

http://www.sarda.org.za/livestream.asp

Live stream for the finals later on

I would not want to upset Dallas!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hes like the european version of Dog the Bounty Hunter.

[Gayo]

At least most of us can say that he has the level to be on the A final of the WORLDS!

[YoungChazz]

IFMAR is the usual result of political correctness -- their "principles" get in the way of common sense and we get S.A. twice in a decade. And Finland next? I assume all 46 R/C enthusiasts will put on the race, so none will be left to enter.

I'm not knocking Finland -- Please, Family members there, we love you! -- it's simply a fact. In terms of population, S.A. and Finland are small places so there can't possibly be large numbers of R/C enthusiasts.

You don't want to know how much of the price of an X - 6 Squared goes to support the Boyz. So, why does any manufacturer pay big money to support and maintain a race team? Because what wins on Sunday sells on Monday. (That's a NASCAR adage.) It's advertising.

If it is all about advertising, a manufacturer must examine the budget -- if I spend X amount on this advertisement, what else is there I can't spend that money on and how many additional cars will I sell?

X Factory did not participate in the '07 worlds in Japan, and sales went up substantially in the ensuing 12 months. Clearly the 10,000 + Sterling we saved was a good thing. This year we will save even more, and in both cases the Family will not be required to spend that money -- we would have to raise prices to cover the costs.

IFMAR, if it is to be a relevant body, needs to recognize that it's only mission is to promote the sport of R/C racing. Making rules and putting on events is a minor part of that. NASCAR recognized reality from the beginning, and now they have 10s of thousands of participants (There are local races every weekend all over the U.S.), tens of millions of fans, and tens of zillions of dollars. It's all about promotion. Rules and schedules, which are the only things IFMAR cares about, are almost not on NASCAR"s agenda -- that's the part that's easiest to accomplish.

What goes on at NASCAR's office? The vast bulk of it is about promotion, working with the midia, and handling the money. In a back office somewhere are a few guys who tweak the rules. The teams & drivers often disagree, but they are all getting rich because of NASCAR so they accept what comes out. The fans often don't understand the rules and the various changes, but they don't care either because they are having too much fun.

IFMAR needs to recognize that half of all R/C is sold in the U.S. and another quarter is in Japan. U.K. and Germany combine for a bit over 15%, and the last 10% is the rest of the world. If that's the case, and if we want to promote the sport of R/C, 5 of every 10 WCs should be in the U.S., 2 or 3 in Japan, one each in U.K. and Germany, and every now and then one someplace else, probably Australia.

How can they possibly put two WCs in S.A. in eight years? Two in Finland in 14 years? But just one in the U.S., one in Japan, and none in U.K. or Germany? South Africa and Finland indeed.

[ashleyb4]

Chazz does know his maths.

I do tend to aggree with south affrica but not finland i think finland is a worthy place for the worlds. Part of the event is travelling to a difrent country to race. Ive never raced outside of the uk but i really would love to I hope to attend the euro's in a few years time. And i really want it to be abbroad.

Also holding an event in such places can help boost the intrest of the sport. At out oz national we gainnned about 4 new members for the club. That was two days with 130 drivers now think what attension would be drawn to an event which was a week long.

Just my two pence but Chazz your a much more experianced man than me.

A

[CODMAN]

Ummm... Just a question here... Is IFMAR a profit or Non-profit organisation? Because Nascar is a "For" profit organisation... They would hold their races in the same town every single week-end if it was the most profiatble way to go in the long run. profit is what the decision makers at NASCAR consider when developping schedules, calendars, rules, etc....

I thought IFMAR was non-profit (please correct me if I'm worng). If they are, that means their job is not to make profit, but to promote the sport all over the world, wherever they have membership and develop it in areas where there is no membership. Even if this means holding smaller events in areas and not pleasing the "for profit" companies, like SA. That,s if they are non-profit... Now if I'm wrong, and they are "for-profit", then obviously the above analysis is correct and somebody at the IFMAR marketing department should be whipped then fired...

All this "security" discussion is rubbish in my oppinion. There are sound financial reasons for the big companies not to go. But for reason they don't want to seem cheap... So they are blaming it on security...

Just my 0.02$

[MHeadling]

Yes Finland should be a good place to have it.

Was Martin Achter using a B4? I was thinking the B4 must be the worlds most winning 2wd chassis?? It's got alot of titles under it's belt since it's release?

[MrHeinz]

@ Chaz; I think it's good you explained your part of it.

This years Worlds is not supported at all and it's a shame for the event and organizer.

Why do you think the next worlds is in Europe and not in the States ? You need clubs to organize it !

The statement you made about Finland is totally wrong.
Finland is known for it's racingdrivers in rc for years. Also in terms of organizing events Finland showed the world how it has to be done !!! If Americans come over they can learn what total dedication for an event like this means.

[MrHeinz]

Originally Posted by CODMAN

Ummm... Just a question here... Is IFMAR a profit or Non-profit organisation? Because Nascar is a "For" profit organisation... They would hold their races in the same town every single week-end if it was the most profiatble way to go in the long run. profit is what the decision makers at NASCAR consider when developping schedules, calendars, rules, etc....

I thought IFMAR was non-profit (please correct me if I'm worng). If they are, that means their job is not to make profit, but to promote the sport all over the world, wherever they have membership and develop it in areas where there is no membership. Even if this means holding smaller events in areas and not pleasing the "for profit" companies, like SA. That,s if they are non-profit... Now if I'm wrong, and they are "for-profit", then obviously the above analysis is correct and somebody at the IFMAR marketing department should be whipped then fired...

All this "security" discussion is rubbish in my oppinion. There are sound financial reasons for the big companies not to go. But for reason they don't want to seem cheap... So they are blaming it on security...

Just my 0.02$

Ifmar is non profit. I totally agree with your last part "

All this "security" discussion is rubbish in my oppinion. There are sound financial reasons for the big companies not to go. But for reason they don't want to seem cheap... So they are blaming it on security... "

[Highjumper]

Has anyone news from AFrika?? Who is the best of the World in 2009??

Greets Kim

[jimmy]

Originally Posted by YoungChazz

IFMAR is the usual result of political correctness -- their "principles" get in the way of common sense and we get S.A. twice in a decade. And Finland next? I assume all 46 R/C enthusiasts will put on the race, so none will be left to enter.

I'm not knocking Finland -- Please, Family members there, we love you! -- it's simply a fact. In terms of population, S.A. and Finland are small places so there can't possibly be large numbers of R/C enthusiasts.

You don't want to know how much of the price of an X - 6 Squared goes to support the Boyz. So, why does any manufacturer pay big money to support and maintain a race team? Because what wins on Sunday sells on Monday. (That's a NASCAR adage.) It's advertising.

If it is all about advertising, a manufacturer must examine the budget -- if I spend X amount on this advertisement, what else is there I can't spend that money on and how many additional cars will I sell?

X Factory did not participate in the '07 worlds in Japan, and sales went up substantially in the ensuing 12 months. Clearly the 10,000 + Sterling we saved was a good thing. This year we will save even more, and in both cases the Family will not be required to spend that money -- we would have to raise prices to cover the costs.

IFMAR, if it is to be a relevant body, needs to recognize that it's only mission is to promote the sport of R/C racing. Making rules and putting on events is a minor part of that. NASCAR recognized reality from the beginning, and now they have 10s of thousands of participants (There are local races every weekend all over the U.S.), tens of millions of fans, and tens of zillions of dollars. It's all about promotion. Rules and schedules, which are the only things IFMAR cares about, are almost not on NASCAR"s agenda -- that's the part that's easiest to accomplish.

What goes on at NASCAR's office? The vast bulk of it is about promotion, working with the midia, and handling the money. In a back office somewhere are a few guys who tweak the rules. The teams & drivers often disagree, but they are all getting rich because of NASCAR so they accept what comes out. The fans often don't understand the rules and the various changes, but they don't care either because they are having too much fun.

IFMAR needs to recognize that half of all R/C is sold in the U.S. and another quarter is in Japan. U.K. and Germany combine for a bit over 15%, and the last 10% is the rest of the world. If that's the case, and if we want to promote the sport of R/C, 5 of every 10 WCs should be in the U.S., 2 or 3 in Japan, one each in U.K. and Germany, and every now and then one someplace else, probably Australia.

How can they possibly put two WCs in S.A. in eight years? Two in Finland in 14 years? But just one in the U.S., one in Japan, and none in U.K. or Germany? South Africa and Finland indeed.

WORLD Championships. I'm sure the 4th block needs looking at - but saying Europe doesn't deserve a Worlds, or is indeed a second rate area for RC racing is a tad odd.

[YoungChazz]

I want to make certain everybody understands I mean no disrespect whatever for the people of S.A. or Finland, or for their countries. Both are truly among the world's most wonderful and beautiful places -- I could happily live there -- and their peoples are warm, friendly, intelligent. We have a wonderful Dealer in each country, and I would be an idiot to put them or their customers down in any way. My unhappiness is directed solely at the organizing bodies.

Can I think that the worlds should not be held in those places and still think they are great people and wonderful places? Certainly. The fact that those countries have small populations and, in my opinion therefore should not have two WC events so close together while major countries like U.K. have none does not change my respect for those places and people or my desire to sell our products there.

I realize IFMAR is non-profit, Codman, but you said it yourself: "their job is ... to promote the sport." My point exactly.

I have much experience of ROAR, and a bit of IFMAR, and the two seem remarkably similar. I have never been to a ROAR or IFMAR event where they even had a press kit for the local media, and that includes National Championship events where ROAR's Promotions Director was present. I have been to a number of non-ROAR events where the local newspaper and/or TV station was invited to send a reporter, and the result has been two long newspaper articles with pix and two segments on TV, one in the main newscast and one in the weather. Both were repeated twice that night.

A friend of mine is a former morning drive radio personality from the LA market, one of America's biggest. We have discussed the type of promotions that could be run to help R/C grow through free media exposure. An overall organizing group, similar to ROAR or NASCAR has to come up with the promotions and do the leg work. I have suggested this to ROAR on several occasions, and have been completely rebuffed every time. I have even volunteered to do the work for free. No.

If R/C is to grow, especially R/C racing, the sanctioning body, profit-making or not, must do the work. IFMAR and ROAR have completely dropped the ball. In reality, they don't even know the ball exists...

[David Church]

The statement you made about Finland is totally wrong.
Finland is known for it's racingdrivers in rc for years. Also in terms of organizing events Finland showed the world how it has to be done !!! If Americans come over they can learn what total dedication for an event like this means.[/quote]



This is very true!!!! The Euro's there a few years ago showed how big Motorsport in Finland is and I for 1 will be hoping to be in the UK team in 2011!!!!
I have never seen such a good facility as the track in Finland!!!!!!!

[jimmy]

I'll be in Finland and will surely be racing - if I can get a place!

[DCM]

Actually, reading what has been said here, although I do think, such a country as South Africa, is debatable, for a venue. But to state that half of all IFMAR events should be in the USA, thats just Americanitis, sorry, but I just totally disagree. You can not turn around, and only put the Worlds where people sell the most cars. It is a WORLDS, so should visit each continent, and it should be rotated each time. I am sure the guys who race in Australia, get fed up of never getting a worlds, since... what, the 80's?

I just dislike, totally, the attitude, that the world revolves around them 50 states...

[peetbee]

You mean along the lines of the Baseball 'world series' then?

[Si Coe]

As if the off road rules weren't balanced in favor of US drivers anyway! The fact it has to be a hard dirt track makes it kind of irrelevant to those of us who race on Astroturf to start with. Especially when you consider the reason we don't have dirt tracks is that they don't like our climate.....


But I must say I was at the '93 Worlds, and it attracted a lot of local attention. After the Worlds many new faces appeared at Southend and Springfield (the two main clubs in the area at that time) and the whole event boosted RC in Essex for a while. Which I can't see happening in SA!

[DCM]

Originally Posted by peetbee

You mean along the lines of the Baseball 'world series' then?

yes, and like we have the 8th Ovals worlds.. that covers, maybe 3 countries. F1 is now becoming a true WORLD championships, to restrict a prestigeous event to only a few countries, is just pointless and futile, you end up destroying emerging markets, rather than encouraging, and you also don't really sell any more, buy having them in already instated markets. Total bollocks. You have to take the racing to them.

I to, went to watch the Worlds, at Basildon, at a purpose built dirt track, in the UK. I do think, that the track should be weather proof, so depending on the country, depends on the style, and there should also be a warm-up too.

[BradR]

Chazz made some good points. The expected level of participation needs to be considered when deciding where to hold these events. I don't agree that half of all world championships should be in the US, but it should certainly be more often than SA.

I like the comparisons to F1 and NASCAR, but they aren't relevant. Those events are organized for the spectators, not the participants. If a F1 race only sold 17 tickets, that race wouldn't be on the schedule next year. The US Grand Prix is a good example, tried and failed.

[Welshy40]

I agree with DCM. I think that if the uk runs on grass or astro the worlds when held here should be on grass or astro. Its unfair to be set to one standard if only a few countries run to that way, and as its the best of the best it wont be hard to adapt to the surface and make it fairer. Heck if the euros were the worlds what are the odds the top ten wouldnt really change much from the euros.

[DCM]

Originally Posted by BradR

I like the comparisons to F1 and NASCAR, but they aren't relevant. Those events are organized for the spectators, not the participants. If a F1 race only sold 17 tickets, that race wouldn't be on the schedule next year. The US Grand Prix is a good example, tried and failed.

Nascar is predominantly aimed at the American Market, and will only ever be an 'American Series', whereas the F1 series, have realised, that it is far more benneficial to hit the WORLD market.

You can't have a world champs, with only selected countried being able to attend, or that there isn't a level playing field. I just don't see why it should only be held in the 'large market', Chazz himself, contradicted by stating, that not going to Japan, he still sold BIG, so by not going to a major market, it did not, in any way, affect his sales... but by going to smaller markets, then it may inspire their organisers to work harder.